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Bush Orders Homeland Security to Assist Faith-Based Groups

By Jeralyn, Section Other Politics
Posted on Wed Mar 08, 2006 at 09:56:29 AM EST
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Here is Bush's latest executive order , issued yesterday. It's entitled, " Responsibilities of the Department of Homeland Security with Respect to Faith-Based and Community Initiatives."

The Secretary of Homeland Security (Secretary) shall establish within the Department of Homeland Security (Department) a Center for Faith-Based and Community Initiatives (Center).....The purpose of the Center shall be to coordinate agency efforts to eliminate regulatory, contracting, and other programmatic obstacles to the participation of faith-based and other community organizations in the provision of social and community services.

The Washington Post has more.

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    Bush Orders Homeland Security to Assist Faith-Based Groups | 30 comments (30 topical)
    Re: Bush Orders Homeland Security to Assist Faith- (none / 0) (#1)
    by aw on Wed Mar 08, 2006 at 10:12:05 AM EST
    Are we ever going to recover from this administration?

    Re: Bush Orders Homeland Security to Assist Faith- (none / 0) (#2)
    by Darryl Pearce on Wed Mar 08, 2006 at 10:26:23 AM EST
    A government hand-out to ...faith-based ...evangelical ...vigilantes? This can only end in tears.

    Re: Bush Orders Homeland Security to Assist Faith- (none / 0) (#3)
    by Edger on Wed Mar 08, 2006 at 10:40:24 AM EST
    The purpose of the Center shall be to coordinate agency efforts to eliminate regulatory ... obstacles to the participation of faith-based and other community organizations in the provision of social and community services. Ummmm... God needs bush's help now? Excuse me?

    Re: Bush Orders Homeland Security to Assist Faith- (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 08, 2006 at 11:01:51 AM EST
    I think they better be serving all agencies seeking funds not just faith based.

    Re: Bush Orders Homeland Security to Assist Faith- (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 08, 2006 at 11:42:55 AM EST
    So, in light of DHS/FEMA's poor performance, they're hoping that "Jesus Saves" can become more than an expression of faith? Maybe something along the lines of "Hope to God you get some help with that hurricane, pal."

    Re: Bush Orders Homeland Security to Assist Faith- (none / 0) (#6)
    by Lww on Wed Mar 08, 2006 at 11:46:47 AM EST
    Is this just an order to let the Salvation Army get some funds to distribute?

    Re: Bush Orders Homeland Security to Assist Faith- (none / 0) (#7)
    by ras on Wed Mar 08, 2006 at 12:16:26 PM EST
    The order looks like no more than a request to cut red tape to all orgs (it says "faith-based and other ..." making it broad enough to cover all, but with a symbolic nod thrown in, presumably for p.r. purposes). The interesting part is that it's to be done via Homeland Security. Is it that HS is throwing up so much red tape already that Bush has to get after them specifically, or is it that he thinks HS is the best at cutting and at getting things done?

    Re: Bush Orders Homeland Security to Assist Faith- (none / 0) (#8)
    by Dadler on Wed Mar 08, 2006 at 12:27:25 PM EST
    ras, I think it's that Bush wants faith-based orgainizations to get an extra push from his bully-pulpit -- whatever one he has left. "Faith based and other", which you see as indicative of everyone, to me indicates an obvious preference for religious orgs. Since the "other" outnumber the faith based orgs, it should've read "Relief and charity organizations, including those of a distincly faith-based origin, provided they do not proselytize as part of their efforts." Bush wants church groups (at least those he likes) to get all the government help they can get, and to me he seems like he'd prefer religous orgs be the dominant group. Just my opinion. I mean, heck, he's an evangelical. The entire evangelical creed to bringing new people to Jesus. I don't think Bush has a clear line in his psyche separating the secular from the religous.

    Re: Bush Orders Homeland Security to Assist Faith- (none / 0) (#9)
    by Che's Lounge on Wed Mar 08, 2006 at 12:39:15 PM EST
    The order looks like no more than a request to cut red tape to all orgs You need a presidential order to cut red tape? Spare me.

    Re: Bush Orders Homeland Security to Assist Faith- (none / 0) (#10)
    by scarshapedstar on Wed Mar 08, 2006 at 01:17:35 PM EST
    I don't think Bush has a clear line in his psyche separating the secular from the religous.
    Let's not forget Bush's stirring defense of a fallen soldier's right to have a Wiccan symbol on his gravestone: "I don't think witchcraft is a religion." Oh, right: Bush wouldn't cut that particular red tape. Shucks. Musta been having a bad day...

    Re: Bush Orders Homeland Security to Assist Faith- (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 08, 2006 at 01:24:39 PM EST
    From what I saw on my tv, the church groups were the only ones who got in to help when help was most needed. I saw bus loads of Christians handing out water and supplies. And now they're putting them under the umbrella of Homeland Security?

    Re: Bush Orders Homeland Security to Assist Faith- (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 08, 2006 at 01:31:51 PM EST
    Has anyone checked out where the faithed based initiative money goes? I remember on a PBS show that the only organizations that got any money were either multi-fatith or exclusively christian groups, none to other religions. It never stops...unless we stop it!

    Re: Bush Orders Homeland Security to Assist Faith- (none / 0) (#13)
    by ras on Wed Mar 08, 2006 at 02:16:37 PM EST
    rabinp, Your comment references a correlation, but shows no causation (admittedly difficult to do, however). But if the majority of faith-based groups in the US are Christian, and the bulk of the aid provided by such groups - for ex, tsunamai relief - is thru them, then the correlation is no more than shocking than one that says that students who study harder will get the more favorable treatment of better grades. The real q is, can other relief/charity groups show they were doing much the same kind of work, or attempting to, and were denied the same kinds of govt support on the basis of their faith (or lack thereof, perhaps)? I see no such denials at present; perhaps someone can find an isolated incident but there is no mention of even that much in this report. Quite the opposite; the funds specifically cited in the story were either privately raised, or they were reimbursements for aid provided; to deny either on the basis of religion would be discriminatory. For ex, look at this excerpt:
    Pressed both by churches that have not received privately raised Hurricane Katrina relief funds as promised and by the outpouring of help of religious groups to Gulf Coast storm victims, Bush also called on the department by September "to identify all existing barriers . . . that unlawfully discriminate against, or otherwise discourage or disadvantage the participation" of such groups in federal programs.
    There's nothng there except a call to remove discrimination based on religious belief, and to date, at least, the actions re disaster relief and red tape are consistent with that theme. Dadler, Bush's - shall we say - enthusiam and preferences bear watching, but he's staying in bounds. "I think it's that Bush wants faith-based orgainizations to get an extra push from his bully-pulpit -- whatever one he has left." Agreed, tho the bully pulpit is his to use as he sees fit. Whether you or I agree with his religious views or not, he has every right to express them in conversation and in his speeches.

    Re: Bush Orders Homeland Security to Assist Faith- (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 08, 2006 at 02:36:09 PM EST
    Faith-based homeland security. I have heard of this before. It seems Bush is channeling Ethelred the Unready, whose best idea of defense of his kingdom against marauding Northmen was to pray to God for deliverance. That didn't work out so well for Ethelred. The idea has not improved with time.

    Re: Bush Orders Homeland Security to Assist Faith- (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 08, 2006 at 03:10:43 PM EST
    Posted by LWW March 8, 2006 12:46 PM
    Is this just an order to let the Salvation Army get some funds to distribute?
    That would be a problem. They discriminate against Gays. I don't give a damn if they don't like 'em. Then don't take the money. If these groups want the funds, let them adhere to the terms of the contract. If they can't, let them pray for the funds. It's like Bill Maher said a couple of weeks back regarding these Alabama Church fires. Churches are tax exempt. Fire and Police Departments are Municipal Services funded by taxes. Enough with the free rides, let 'em pray for rain.

    Re: Bush Orders Homeland Security to Assist Faith- (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 08, 2006 at 03:21:37 PM EST
    This just in from AP: WASHINGTON (AP) -- A House panel dominated by Republicans voted overwhelmingly Wednesday to block a Dubai-owned firm from taking control of some U.S. port operations in an election-year repudiation of President Bush. By 62-2, the Appropriations Committee voted to bar DP World, run by the government of Dubai in the United Arab Emirates, from holding leases or contracts at U.S. ports. Bush has promised to veto any such measure passed by Congress, but the vote underscored widespread public opposition to the deal and the GOP's fears of losing its advantage on the issue of national security in this fall's elections.

    Re: Bush Orders Homeland Security to Assist Faith- (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 08, 2006 at 03:41:54 PM EST
    Is Bush a muslim? and thank you edward for the info, and LWW Whats wrong with a free ride bush's family have one, if you know what i mean?

    Re: Bush Orders Homeland Security to Assist Faith- (none / 0) (#18)
    by Johnny on Wed Mar 08, 2006 at 04:38:16 PM EST
    he has every right to express them in conversation and in his speeches.
    Absolutely, but he has no right to initiate or attempt to initiate legislation that preferences religion over secularism, christianity over islam, evangelicalism over lutheranism, polytheism over atheism, etc. Time and again, Bush has demonstrated his willingness to give preferential treatment to his brand of invisible-man worship. The gravestone incident (which if it isn't true, it is at least illustrative of his feelings) is a fine example of state meddling with religious freedom. According to this article, the family of the sailor who was discriminated against due to his religion, has filed to have the Wiccan symbol recognized as a religious symbol. I'd say, given the US governments past at recognizing true religious tolerance and freedom, they have a better than 50/50 shot at succeeding. Of course, not recognizing the "flawed" nature of man, which seems to be a pre-requisite for so-called "enlightened" religions may be a stumbling block. Dirt worshiping is held in high dis-regard by "enlightened" people as well. Those are two huge strikes against so-called "pagan" religions right there. Bush makes no secret about his agenda to christianize the US, and I bear him a grudging respect for that honesty. However, what part of "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" does he not understand? Tax free status alone is a "respecting establishment of religion", and should be outlawed. Making witnesses "swear by god" is a violation of that clause. Giving federal money to religious organizations that probably already qualify for massive amounts of welfare (tax free status) is a violation.

    Re: Bush Orders Homeland Security to Assist Faith- (none / 0) (#19)
    by Johnny on Wed Mar 08, 2006 at 04:40:08 PM EST
    Sorry, formatting didn't work. (Ed. I fixed it for you)

    Re: Bush Orders Homeland Security to Assist Faith- (none / 0) (#21)
    by ras on Wed Mar 08, 2006 at 04:47:12 PM EST
    Johnny, No sweat on the formatting probs; happens. Outta curiousity, did you cut-and-paste comments that you had typed in another editor, like a word processor? Anyway, as for the substance, didja read the article? Bush is doing none of what you claim, at least not in the story in q:
    "Bush also called on the department by September "to identify all existing barriers . . . that unlawfully discriminate against, or otherwise discourage or disadvantage the participation" of such groups in federal programs."
    Is you own view that religious groups should be banned from participation in aid/charity work, or discriminated against in some way? See why I think that atheism, as much based on faith as any other faith, should be treated in law as a religion in its own right?

    Re: Bush Orders Homeland Security to Assist Faith- (none / 0) (#20)
    by Johnny on Wed Mar 08, 2006 at 04:53:37 PM EST
    Thanks JM! Just for the record, what did I do wrong? (You forgot a quotation mark before the url)

    Re: Bush Orders Homeland Security to Assist Faith- (none / 0) (#22)
    by Sailor on Wed Mar 08, 2006 at 06:25:10 PM EST
    Is you own view that religious groups should be banned from participation in aid/charity work, or discriminated against in some way?
    No, they just shouldn't have tax dollars to do it with.

    Re: Bush Orders Homeland Security to Assist Faith- (none / 0) (#23)
    by ras on Wed Mar 08, 2006 at 06:49:09 PM EST
    "No, they just shouldn't have tax dollars to do it with." In which case, only atheists need apply? Why favor one faith over another? Enforced athiesm - which was tried in the last century to devastatingly bad effect - makes the other theocracies of history look good by comparison.

    Re: Bush Orders Homeland Security to Assist Faith- (none / 0) (#24)
    by scarshapedstar on Wed Mar 08, 2006 at 07:30:50 PM EST
    In which case, only atheists need apply? Why favor one faith over another? Enforced athiesm - which was tried in the last century to devastatingly bad effect - makes the other theocracies of history look good by comparison.
    Separation of church and state = Stalinism (or something)? Who knew? Apparently, if you don't give huge government handouts to a religion, you're trying to destroy it.

    Re: Bush Orders Homeland Security to Assist Faith- (none / 0) (#25)
    by scarshapedstar on Wed Mar 08, 2006 at 07:32:04 PM EST
    (For the record, I don't think most of the problems of historical Communism can be laid upon a lack of religious fervor.)

    Re: Bush Orders Homeland Security to Assist Faith- (none / 0) (#26)
    by Sailor on Wed Mar 08, 2006 at 07:38:49 PM EST
    The Red Cross has many members of faith, as does the United Way and every other charity, but, unlike some, believing in their 'God' is not their shibboleth. If a group only professes one religion or discriminates on religious grounds, then no $$ from taxes. If they truly have faith then God will provide and there is no reason for the gov't to interfere.

    Re: Bush Orders Homeland Security to Assist Faith- (none / 0) (#27)
    by Edger on Thu Mar 09, 2006 at 12:25:07 AM EST
    God Reveals the Neo-Con Ten Commandments To George Bush Exxonodus 20:1-17 1. "Thou shalt have no other gods before me except for oil, stocks, bonds, real estate, guns, expensive clothes, tax cuts or Leo Strauss." 2. "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image that is not approved by Karl Rove." 3. "Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain except while watching sporting events or when some liberal traitor makes fun of you." 4. "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy by controlling all spin on Sunday morning talk shows." 5. "Honor thy father and thy mother by settling old scores." 6. "Thou shalt not kill or convict Republicans." 7. "Thou shalt not commit adultery with Democrats." 8. "Thou shalt not steal from Republicans." 9. "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor unless he disagrees with your Republican President." 10. "Thou shalt not covet thy Republican neighbor's house, nor anything that is thy Republican neighbor's."

    Re: Bush Orders Homeland Security to Assist Faith- (none / 0) (#28)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 09, 2006 at 04:44:56 AM EST
    Well done, edge. I'm surprised he went to 10. That's a lot to remember. Then again, he could've burned the damn bush and we'd be on the mend. Addition by subtraction and all that.

    Re: Bush Orders Homeland Security to Assist Faith- (none / 0) (#29)
    by Johnny on Thu Mar 09, 2006 at 06:24:47 AM EST
    Thanks JM No Ras, I typed it all in the comment box. And no, I just think any religious organization that angles for special legislation is doing so in violation of the first. And no, what I am proposing is hardly "enforced" atheism. Nowhere do I say "thou shalt not practice religion". That is a direct violation of the first. But the first explicitly states that the business of the government does not concern itself with religion. It has nothing to do with telling people how they can and cannot worship.

    Re: Bush Orders Homeland Security to Assist Faith- (none / 0) (#30)
    by Edger on Thu Mar 09, 2006 at 05:50:31 PM EST
    Head shaker of the day... When Would Jesus Bolt? Amy Sullivan The Washington Monthly
    Meet Randy Brinson, the advance guard of evangelicals leaving the GOP. The Republicans were filibustering the Bible bill. On a Tuesday afternoon in early February, Republican legislators in Alabama took to the crimson-carpeted floor of the state house to oppose legislation that would authorize an elective course on the Bible in public high schools. ... so far as Republicans were concerned, there was only one pertinent piece of information about the bill: It was sponsored by two Democrats. And now Republicans were prepared to do everything in their procedural power to stop it, even if that meant lining up to explain why they could not--could not!--stand for this attempt to bring a class about the Bible into public schools.
    Uhhh... right? Right.

    Bush Orders Homeland Security to Assist Faith-Based Groups | 30 comments (30 topical)