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Govt's Case on Moussaoi Remains Weak

By Jeralyn, Section Terror Trials
Posted on Mon Mar 20, 2006 at 05:40:35 AM EST
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Despite the Court's ruling allowing the death penalty trial of Zacarias Moussaoui to proceed, minus the witnesses tainted by Carla J. Martin, the prosecutor still has an uphill battle in trying to prove that Zacarias contributed to or caused the death of any of the 9/11 victims. The Washington Post has a great editorial, Another Blown Case, on this and other federal terrorism trials to date. Some snippets:

This case nevertheless joins a line of big terrorism prosecutions marred by government misconduct, overzealousness, hyping of charges or just plain ineffectiveness.

  • A conviction in Detroit had to be set aside because of prosecutorial misconduct. The government brought spectacular charges against accused Islamic Jihad activist Sami al-Arian, only to see a jury reject many of them -- and convict on none -- after a lengthy trial.
  • Then-Attorney General John D. Ashcroft announced the arrest of Jose Padilla with great fanfare as the foiling of a plot to detonate a radiological "dirty" bomb; after holding him for years as an enemy combatant, the government indicted him for far lesser matters.
  • Mohamed Qahtani, the Guantanamo Bay inmate the government has labeled the 20th hijacker -- when it wasn't busy making the same claim about Mr. Moussaoui -- was subjected to such abusive interrogation that he probably cannot face trial at all.

Conclusion:

Much of this is the Bush administration's fault. The administration failed to work with Congress to create viable legal structures to handle these cases, proceeding in whatever way seemed most convenient in any given situation. The results are abysmal. And, ironically, they undermine the case for the more secretive military trial procedures the government is trying to create. If authorities fail so often to play by the rules in the relatively open federal court system, it's hard to believe their behavior will be better when the spotlight is turned off.

I suspect the Judge will end the trial by ruling against the Government when the Defense makes a motion for acquittal at the conclusion of the Government's case. The Government will not have shown that but for Moussaoui's lies to the FBI, even one person would not have died. His connection to 9/11 is too peripheral and it's also doubtful that even with his information, the attacks would have been prevented. Moussaoui just wasn't in the fold. A bumbling holy warrior who intended to do damage at some point, yes. But one of those responsible for the 9/11 deaths, no.

My prediction: The Government will lose the death case, Moussaoui will get life in prison and be designated to Supermax in in Florence -- along with all the other terrorists.

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    • Govt's Case on Moussaoi Remains Weak | 21 comments (21 topical)
    Re: Govt's Case on Moussaoi Remains Weak (none / 0) (#1)
    by Steven Sanderson on Mon Mar 20, 2006 at 03:01:57 AM EST
    I hope that your prediction on Moussaoui's sentencing is correct. I do worry that given the neocon's claims that the president has unlimited, inherent powers in times of war, they'll soon claim that the president has the authority to order the execution of convicted terrorists (and even suspects?) and that those orders are beyond judicial review.

    Re: Govt's Case on Moussaoi Remains Weak (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 20, 2006 at 05:52:41 AM EST
    So what else is new ? The Bush Administration has demonstrated its incompetence over and over again--in Iraq, after Katrina, in terrorist prosecutions, and on and on. The attorney who violated the judges rules has been placed on administrative leave--but where was her supervision ? Sounds like she'll end up being the scapegoat, but she doesn't even work for the Justice Department. Where were the Justice Department's attorneys ? What idiots !!

    Re: Govt's Case on Moussaoi Remains Weak (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 20, 2006 at 07:51:44 AM EST
    It makes me sick to my stomach every time I realize that you people really are sitting with baited breath, hoping, praying (to your tree god or what the hell ever it is that you pray to) that this guy is going to walk. Each and everyone of you truly are a complete and utter waste carbon.

    Re: Govt's Case on Moussaoi Remains Weak (none / 0) (#4)
    by Dadler on Mon Mar 20, 2006 at 09:13:24 AM EST
    Variable, Has it ever occurred to you that this kind of prosecutorial misconduct, in a addition to being desperate and stupid, can also result in a guilty person being exonerated? Perhaps, my angry amigo, we're ALL not a waste of carbon, but a wonderful use of grey matter. I've heard Moussaoi quoted, realize what his deal is, and I'd like to think if he's genuinely guilty of something that his guilty isn't compromised by inept prosecutors who feel cheating is appropriate. Also, if they feel the need to cheat, what does that say about their case in general? Thanks for stereotyping "all of us" as just a big lump void of individual opinion or intellect or freedom. Peace.

    Re: Govt's Case on Moussaoi Remains Weak (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 20, 2006 at 09:23:34 AM EST
    Variable, Nobody has convicted Moussaoui of anything, to my knowledge .... except for you, apparently. Most, if not all of his "confessions" were accomplished under duress, which would certainly make him eligible for some sort of trial, I would hope you agree. If you wish to blame anyone, why don't you start with the top, the moron, instead of hating a few "bad" apples?

    Re: Govt's Case on Moussaoi Remains Weak (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 20, 2006 at 09:51:49 AM EST
    It makes me sick to my stomach every time I realize that you people really are sitting with baited breath, hoping, praying (to your tree god or what the hell ever it is that you pray to) that this guy is going to walk. Each and everyone of you truly are a complete and utter waste carbon.
    Why don't you read back your little screed and mull over just why opinion 'round these parts invariably runs negative on you, sport. Who said anything about walk? That's what I thought. Which part of life without parole sounds like walk to you? They screwed up the case, we didn't. Don't blame us, pal. We didn't lift a finger. Then again, we didn't have to. Good thing because nothin' we'd have done would've made a dime's worth of difference anyhow. If you're gonna deal in untruths, if you're gonna bluff, don't make it so damned easy to call.

    Re: Govt's Case on Moussaoi Remains Weak (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 20, 2006 at 10:13:25 AM EST
    Variable, Moussaoui will get life in prison. That's hardly a walk.

    Re: Govt's Case on Moussaoi Remains Weak (none / 0) (#8)
    by jen on Mon Mar 20, 2006 at 10:28:52 AM EST
    Maybe variable meant we are hoping that the lawyers that messed up the case will walk

    Re: Govt's Case on Moussaoi Remains Weak (none / 0) (#9)
    by Patrick on Mon Mar 20, 2006 at 10:40:46 AM EST
    Has it ever occurred to you that this kind of prosecutorial misconduct, in a addition to being desperate and stupid, can also result in a guilty person being exonerated
    I think it's been cleared up and wasn't any fault of the prosecutors, nor was it misconduct on their part.
    Nobody has convicted Moussaoui of anything, to my knowledge .... except for you, apparently.
    Ummm, Sky-ho, this is the penalty phase. I'm pretty sure he had to be convicted of something to get to this point.

    Re: Govt's Case on Moussaoi Remains Weak (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 20, 2006 at 11:26:12 AM EST
    Nobody said anything about wanting him to walk. The question is whether what he actually did (not what he would like to do in the future or wished he had done or anything like that) is worthy of the death penalty. And even for death penalty supporters, it seems you might want to be cautious about giving your government the power to execute someone on very tenous legal reasoning. When you give that kind of power to a government, they have a tendency to abuse it. It find it so weird that so many conservatives have become the obedient little sheep who find it disturbing to try to limit government power. It does not fit my image of the anti-government conservatives I knew growing up who didn't trust the government with anything (like Waco). Variable, what is with that little snotty comment about "our" god? Do you seriously think liberals can't be christian? Do you think it is an anti-christian position to be against, or even just wary of the death penalty? It is really weird when people who loudly profess to be christians salivate at the idea of putting someone to death.

    Re: Govt's Case on Moussaoi Remains Weak (none / 0) (#11)
    by roy on Mon Mar 20, 2006 at 11:43:20 AM EST
    JB,
    It find it so weird that so many conservatives have become the obedient little sheep who find it disturbing to try to limit government power. It does not fit my image of the anti-government conservatives I knew growing up who didn't trust the government with anything (like Waco).
    You've got to realize that a lot of them were poseurs. They'd say "limited government" when they really only cared about limited government involvement in their own lives. Government control of "them" could be acceptable or desirable. As in "let me have my assault rifle, but arrest my gay neighbors for sodomy". David Koresh was a white redneck religious dude. He got sympathy. Moussaoi, not so much.

    Re: Govt's Case on Moussaoi Remains Weak (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 20, 2006 at 12:10:18 PM EST
    Moussaoui will get life in prison. That's hardly a walk. Life? ...and elegible for parole in how many years? And how long until some lib lawyer decides to spend all their waking moments trying to get him out! Roy sez... David Koresh was a white redneck religious dude. He got sympathy. Moussaoi, not so much. You guys never cease to amaze me with your comparisons.... Yeah comparing Koresh ( a misguided fool who talked other misguided people into following him - and who all, unfortunately, ran up against Janet Reno) with Moussaoui, an "admitted" follower of Al Quida who wants to kill as many Americans as possible... Yeah... that's a good comparison. Like Hitler to GW... LOL You are all truly amazing!

    Re: Govt's Case on Moussaoi Remains Weak (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 20, 2006 at 12:42:14 PM EST
    From findlaw: "The confessed al-Qaida conspirator pleaded guilty to conspiring to fly planes into U.S. buildings, although he claims to have had no role in the terrorist plot of Sept. 11, 2001." Sorry, he was convicted. Of what, I'm certain someone knows, conspiracy? aiding and abetting? and BB, "Moussaoui, an "admitted" follower of Al Quida who wants to kill as many Americans as possible..." Did Moussaoui _say_ he wanted to "kill as many Americans as possible"? Is that what Al Quida (sic) or bin Laden says? My translation skills are better than CNN but much worse that a real translator and I think you would be hard pressed to be able to support the second half of your comment above. In fact, during the bin Laden dinner video aired a couple of months after 11Sep01, bin Laden stated, for the record, that he and his followers did not expect people to die below the impact points and that the collapse of the towers was unexpected, not that that should absolve him of the crime. Apparently Bush does not think bin Laden is very important anymore. Killing Moussaoui only will make him a martyr, something that would seem more expensive than worthwhile.

    Re: Govt's Case on Moussaoi Remains Weak (none / 0) (#14)
    by jen on Mon Mar 20, 2006 at 12:46:57 PM EST
    life without parole. that means, you know, no parole.

    Re: Govt's Case on Moussaoi Remains Weak (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 20, 2006 at 01:06:11 PM EST
    Sky-ho sez... Did Moussaoui _say_ he wanted to "kill as many Americans as possible"? LMAO... no well I guess he didn't actually say those words, no. You got me there dude. So I guess the "confessed al-Qaida conspirator pleaded guilty to conspiring to fly planes into U.S. buildings" actually assumed all those buildings would be empty and just wanted to make a politcal statement huh? although he claims to have had no role in the terrorist plot of Sept. 11, 2001." And of course... being the liberal minded sort... who will actually believe him... while waisting no time condeming anything anyone on our side does.... and immediately claiming they are guilty.... huh? you would be hard pressed to be able to support the second half of your comment above. Oh...sorry... I guess Osama and his pals actually like us and wish us no harm. LOL..... you can go back to sleep now.

    Re: Govt's Case on Moussaoi Remains Weak (none / 0) (#16)
    by Edger on Mon Mar 20, 2006 at 01:21:04 PM EST
    Talkleft: Moussaoui will get life in prison. That's hardly a walk. He seems to be mentally ill, perhaps seriously. Will he be treated?

    Re: Govt's Case on Moussaoi Remains Weak (none / 0) (#18)
    by Patrick on Mon Mar 20, 2006 at 04:19:38 PM EST
    Looks like he committed at least one act in furtherance of the conspiracy.

    Re: Govt's Case on Moussaoi Remains Weak (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 20, 2006 at 04:33:08 PM EST
    Here's the statement of facts that Moussaoui admitted to when he pleaded guilty. Note that as his lawyer said in opening arguments , "The Statement of Facts that Moussaoui has signed contains no admission of involvement in or knowledge of the attacks that occurred on September 11th." ...."He has not admitted involvement in the attacks or that he had any knowledge about the date, the time, the targets or even the operatives in the attacks."

    Re: Govt's Case on Moussaoi Remains Weak (none / 0) (#19)
    by Che's Lounge on Tue Mar 21, 2006 at 12:12:07 AM EST
    It's obvious that several individuals commenting here have either not read, or do not understand, the particulars of this phase of his trial.

    Re: Govt's Case on Moussaoi Remains Weak (none / 0) (#20)
    by Edger on Tue Mar 21, 2006 at 12:23:45 AM EST
    BB: Yeah... that's a good comparison. Like Hitler to GW... LOL You are all truly amazing! BB, the thread is about the govt's case against Moussaoi. Not about comparing Hitler to GW. No one else here has insulted Adolf. Try to focus.

    Re: Govt's Case on Moussaoi Remains Weak (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 21, 2006 at 03:13:41 PM EST
    BB,
    So I guess the "confessed al-Qaida conspirator pleaded guilty to conspiring to fly planes into U.S. buildings" actually assumed all those buildings would be empty and just wanted to make a politcal statement huh?
    Are you saying they did not make a political statement? What do you need, your own personal 2x4 upside the head? I believe Osama stated they were aiming to kill just those above the impact and were quite surprised when both towers collapsed. Can we say, cheap construction? If they wanted to maximize death and destruction, they would have crashed the planes later in the morning or even targeted lunch hour crowds on the busy streets. Sheez, you wingnuts are simply too unimaginative.

    Govt's Case on Moussaoi Remains Weak | 21 comments (21 topical)