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US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organization

By Last Night in Little Rock, Section War on Terror
Posted on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 05:50:44 AM EST
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by Last Night in Little Rock

The U.S. State Department announced on Thursday that the U.S. would not be seeking membership on the UN's new Human Rights Council as reported on PaperChase.

Our government's press statement is a classic "read between the lines" document:

There are strong candidates in our regional group, with long records of support for human rights, that voted in favor of the resolution creating the Council. They should have the opportunity to run....

Since the credibility of the Council depends on its membership, the United States will actively campaign on behalf of candidates genuinely committed to the promotion and protection of human rights, and which will act as responsible members of this new body. We will also actively campaign against states that systematically abuse human rights.

With a strong collective effort in the coming months to make the new Council effective, the United States will likely run for the Council next year.

A cynic must ask: Does the U.S. lack a "long record[] of support for human rights" or a "commit[ment] to the promotion and protection of human rights"?

More fundamentally, does the question really come down to "we can't fade the heat for Abu Gharib just yet"? Probably not.

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    US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organization | 63 comments (63 topical)
    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#1)
    by Edger on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 06:55:40 AM EST
    There are strong candidates in our regional group, with long records of support for human rights, that voted in favor of the resolution creating the Council... And if we were one of them we'd be running. We will also actively campaign against states that systematically abuse human rights. This should get interesting. How does the U.S. government plan to campaign against itsef, I wonder?

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#2)
    by Slado on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 07:34:26 AM EST
    That people still want to believe the UN can do anything productive amazes me. I forsee the typical Bush Administration comments from the lefties but no mention of "oil for food" UN failures in Africa etc... The UN is corrupt and useless when it comes to enforcing or standing for anything. We still need to try and make it better and it is a way to have dialogue between nations but for action what's the point? Without our support it can't do anything and we shouldn't support initiatives that simply want to turn on us. My 2Cents.

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#3)
    by Slado on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 07:39:29 AM EST
    How corrupt? UN

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#4)
    by rMatey on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 07:41:13 AM EST
    The presidunce pulls out of all of the existing treaties, locks people up without charges or representation, sends people to other countries to be tortures, starts a war with Iraq on trumped-up charges, wiretaps and spies on our own citizens, and won't sign a treaty holding the U.S. accountable for war crimes (if any.) Gee, do you really think that Smirky would be an example of equal human rights?

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#5)
    by Steven Sanderson on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 08:42:01 AM EST
    The Bush Administration's decision not to seek membership on the UN Human Rights Commission is merely a continuation of it's facade of publicly pretending to care about human rights while behind the scenes agressively doing it's best to destroy those same rights. Our current administration's interest is in helping the corporate world increase it's profits by eliminating the concept of human rights.

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 08:43:42 AM EST
    Well, it's a step in the right direction. Now if he'll just pull us out of the U.N. altogether, and get the U.N. out of New York, we can get busy working on a successor to that incredibly flawed institution.

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#7)
    by jondee on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 08:44:21 AM EST
    Slado - Any thoughts on the missing 8 to 10 billion earmarked for Iraq? Or, is that not corrupt enough for you?

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 08:46:30 AM EST
    Steven, The very same thing can be said about almost every member of the U.N. Do you really think Sudan cares about human rights? or Saudi Arabia? Or Libya? Or North Korea? These countries, all of which have extensive records of real human rights abuses going right up to this morning, are considered members in good standing of the U.N. and will no doubt be seeking a place on this new commission. Given that, how likely is it that this new commission will be anything but another U.N. facade?

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 08:57:34 AM EST
    I really don't think you've got a clue what you're talkin' about JP.

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#10)
    by jondee on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 09:11:39 AM EST
    j.p - "We can get busy working on a successor to that incredibily flawed organization." A successor similar in intent and structure to the U.N? And, by "we" you mean who exactly?

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#11)
    by jondee on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 09:18:19 AM EST
    He's probobly thinking of something like the United Tax Relief Advocates.

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#12)
    by Al on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 09:36:46 AM EST
    From the State Department press release:
    With a strong collective effort in the coming months to make the new Council effective, the United States will likely run for the Council next year.
    Clearly, the administration does not have a quarrel with the Human Rights Council (like some of its supporters here), because they want to run next year. But why not this year? From the Paper Chase:
    There had been speculation that the US would not be able to secure the majority 96 UN General Assembly votes necessary for a successful membership bid.
    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 10:00:13 AM EST
    Posted by Jondee April 7, 2006 10:11 AM j.p - "We can get busy working on a successor to that incredibily flawed organization." A successor similar in intent and structure to the U.N? And, by "we" you mean who exactly? Starfleet. The United Federation of Planets. Possibly the Romulans. Maybe even the Klingons if they behave themselves and agree to share their cloaking device technology with everyone. The Jeepster's not one to set impossibly high goals in an effort to guarantee failure.

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#14)
    by Slado on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 10:09:39 AM EST
    Jondee, actually I do have thoughts. Any money lost or misuesed in Iraq by the U.S. was lost replacing a dictator with a democracy. Agree or disagree with that policy but don't try and compare it to the laundering of money by the UN which was supposed to be providing food for children. Not providing a means for Saddam to aquire weapons that he could't buy on the open market, allow France, Germany and Russia (all members of the UN HRC) to scam the program and personaly line the pockets of Kofis son and an unkown number of UN employees. Read the link that I inlcuded in my 2nd post and try and make the comparison. The UN is corrupt. I don't think we should have anything to do with it but I understand the need to stay somewhat involved. However we should not crticize our government from not wanting to jump automatically embrace anything the UN is sponsoring.

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#15)
    by Che's Lounge on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 10:14:02 AM EST
    No oil for food contracts passed without oversight and approval by both US and UK reps. They rubber stamped the "fraud" JP. Libertarianism = racism

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 10:18:53 AM EST
    To say that the US was unaware of the UN Oil for Food Scandal is ridiculous. To say that the US wasn't involved in the UN Oil for Food Scandal is Idiotic.

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#17)
    by jondee on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 10:23:57 AM EST
    slado - We're not talking about a few stray bills lost in the dryer. How much "food for children" could that money have provided; or, that matter, how much could the 40 0r 50 billion a month going to that bloody quagmire in Iraq have provided? If intent rather than performance is what actually matters to you, I would think you would be whole hog behind the U.N.

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#18)
    by jondee on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 10:27:14 AM EST
    We're in Iraq for the children of the world - I think that has serious bumpersticker possibilities.

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#19)
    by Sailor on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 10:31:29 AM EST
    Any money lost or misuesed in Iraq by the U.S. was lost replacing a dictator with a democracy.
    1) What democracy? 2) Uhh, what does that have to corruption? Isn't it worse when it is done under this guise of 'helping' the iraqis?
    The UN is corrupt.
    That's like saying bushco is nothing but child molesters. BTW, if you're referring to the Voelcker report, guess what:
    It also accused U.S. officials of approving "the single largest episode of oil smuggling" out of Iraq, by Jordan, in the weeks before the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in March 2003.
    But the US and Jordan blocked that investigation.

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#20)
    by Sailor on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 10:36:30 AM EST
    In fact, the OFFP enabled the importation of enough food to feed all 27 million Iraqis. During its existence, the average daily caloric intake of the people of Iraq increased 83 percent, from 1,200 kilocalories to 2,200 kilocalories per person per day. In addition, malnutrition rates in 2002 in the central and southern part of the country were half those in 1996 among children under the age of five; in the three northern governorates, chronic malnutrition decreased 56 percent.
    Of course that has gone back down under US occupation.

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#21)
    by Sailor on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 10:39:13 AM EST
    Nearly $9 billion of money spent on Iraqi reconstruction is unaccounted for because of inefficiencies and bad management, according to a watchdog report published Sunday. An inspector general's report said the U.S.-led administration that ran Iraq until June 2004 is unable to account for the funds. The $8.8 billion was reported to have been spent on salaries, operating and capital expenditures, and reconstruction projects between October 2003 and June 2004, Bowen's report concluded. The money came from revenues from the United Nations' former oil-for-food program, oil sales and seized assets -- all Iraqi money. The audit did not examine the use of U.S. funds appropriated for reconstruction. (Full story)
    so, when are you going to ask bush to resign for all the corruption in iraq?

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#22)
    by swingvote on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 11:10:12 AM EST
    Jondee, Again with your standard sniping; hardly surprising. I would suggest we start with the other democracies in the world, as they at least have the advantage of having been chosen to represent their people, rather than having forced themselves upon their people. This way, when someone stands up to speak for their country, they at least have the legitimacy of having been chosen to do so by their country. No doubt you have a problem with this idea, but since it won't be in anyway coherently stated, I'll just assume that you have a problem with not letting the world's dictators continue to abuse their citizens under a convenient international umbrella that affords them some diplomatic cover. So be it. It's been clear for years that the Republicans/Conservatives don't have a monopoly on their willingness to seell out their stated principles. Democrats and "liberals" do it all the time as well. Anything else you'd like to know?

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#23)
    by jondee on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 11:42:47 AM EST
    j.p - Speaking of coherence and related matters, do really think you can make provacative pronouncements at this site such as that the U.S should withdraw from the U.N and boot them out of country without eliciting a strong responce? If you do then I suggest that you apply yourself to cohering to reality a little better. I mean, its your site'n all, but alot of other people with different points of view come here. Also, since youre opposed to all dictatorships and apparently would like to isolate them from the rest of the world community, Im assuming that you would be in support of the outlawing of any companies or indivuals investing in or doing business with known dictatorships. Is that correct?

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 11:44:50 AM EST
    Is
    Libertarianism = racism
    from the same visceral region as the "capitalism = fascism" I always see spray painted on overpasses? You are a funny one, Che!! And I think it's great that we hold out of the Human Rights Council. When companies like Iran, Cuba and Sudan are seriously mentioned as potential members, why should we participate? Cuba.. sheesh.

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#25)
    by jondee on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 11:57:20 AM EST
    How about China Chase? Funny how you guys always leave them out.

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 11:59:30 AM EST
    Oh yeah, China big time. My quick list wasn't meant to be exhaustive.

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#27)
    by swingvote on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 12:09:26 PM EST
    Jondee, A strong response would be just fine. Your incessant sniping with no other comment content and an obvious lack of thought is another thing altogether. If you find the idea of the U.S. cutting itself off from an organization as corrupt and ineffective as the U.N. has proven itself to be over the last 50+ years "provocative", please explain why. Your initial "response" to my comment was "A successor similar in intent and structure to the U.N? And, by "we" you mean who exactly?" and then you threw in "He's probobly thinking of something like the United Tax Relief Advocates." Was this supposed to be a "strong response"? And I'm the one with a limited grip on reality? Okaaaaaaay..... I mean, its your site'n all, but alot of other people with different points of view come here. It is? When did that happen? I would have thought Jeralyn would have let me know that she had handed the site over to me, but maybe she was too busy deleting Charlie's many inane comments to get around to it yet. As for different points of view: I welcome those, Jondee, (I wouldn't be here if I didn't) although I don't believe you do, but that's really beside the point. What I would find interesting, however, is a single comment from you that suggested any point of view at all. All you do is snipe at people who actually say something, or re-post material from other sites. I suppose we could try to determine your point of view based on who you choose to attack and what you choose to regurgitate, but wouldn't it be easier if you just said something for a change instead of spewing hatred all the time? Also, since youre opposed to all dictatorships and apparently would like to isolate them from the rest of the world community, Im assuming that you would be in support of the outlawing of any companies or indivuals investing in or doing business with known dictatorships. There we go with the illiteracy thing again. I said I am opposed to dictatorships in a body to replace the U.N., Jondee. If you can spin that in your own small mind into isolating them from the rest of the world community, then it is clear that you do in fact have a poor grasp on reality. But I guess that's how liberalism goes. Every idea must be blown out of all proportion. As for companies that do business with dictatorships: No, Jondee, I wouldn't make that illegal, because I don't believe the U.S. Constitution grants to the government the power to make commercial transactions illegal based on moral distinctions (and now you can bring up the embargo on Cuba, which you no doubt support since you're bringing it up). I would prefer to see the people who own those companies, as in the stockholders, undertake to see that their companies do no business with such governments. And what about the privately owned companies, you say? I believe the customer still has some control of what they do, by choosing not to patronize them. Beyond that, I don't know how we put these people out of business, Jondee, since they will always be able to trade amongst themselves, but I would oppose your policy of outlawing everyone we disagree with. Sorry, but I'm just not that big of a big government kind of guy. So no, Jondee, that was not correct. Anything else I can help you with today?

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#28)
    by Al on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 12:24:39 PM EST
    It seems the usual trolls have succeeded in completely derailing a thread about the US not running for membership in the UN Human Rights Council, because they can't get enough votes. Because the thought of John Bolton championing human rights would have the entire General Assembly rolling in the aisles. What has this got to do with the Oil For Food program? Absolutely nothing, of course, which is why the chest-thumping, feces-throwing trolls brought it up. Slado makes the outrageous claim that in Iraq a dictatorship was replaced by a democracy precisely because he knows that it will trigger a storm of indignation and make everyone forget what we were talking about in the first place.

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 12:29:34 PM EST
    JP the only assistance you provide anyone with is a laugh as you pretentiously try to cogent the conservative cause. No one minds differing points of view. I'd certainly welcome an intelligent, articulate conservative to spar with. Know any? You've yet to show the slightest indication that you have even the most fundamental understanding of the way Government works or the most superficial grasp of the issues.

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#30)
    by Sailor on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 12:30:09 PM EST
    If you find the idea of the U.S. cutting itself off from an organization as corrupt and ineffective as the U.N.
    Assuming facts not in evidence. The UN has done a hell of a lot more for the world than the US would/could.

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#31)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 12:41:06 PM EST
    The UN has done a hell of a lot more for the world than the US would/could.
    Did I read that? I know it's Friday and all, but are you drinking already? Get a grip, Sailor. As a political liberal in the conservative era, you may revere the UN for it's ineffective, foot-dragging obstructionism but don't strip what credibility you left by saying the UN has done more for the world than the US.

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#32)
    by Che's Lounge on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 12:41:36 PM EST
    would suggest we start with the other democracies in the world, as they at least have the advantage of having been chosen to represent their people, rather than having forced themselves upon their people. Look! Over there! See? Democracy works!

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#33)
    by Peaches on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 12:44:59 PM EST
    Chase, Sailor said the UN has done a hell of a lot more for the world than the US not The UN has done a hell of a lot more to the world than the US

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#34)
    by jondee on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 12:51:01 PM EST
    j.p - Give me one example where I "reposted material from other sites" ; put up or quit talking out your a** and wasting bandwidth. And yeah, coming to a left leaning site and proclaiming that the U.S should pull out of the U.N and boot them out of the country isnt provacative (maybe you should look the word up), not at all. Youre either a troll or stupid.

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#35)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 12:55:24 PM EST
    Nah, the jeepster is capable of doin' both at the same time. I'll give him that much.

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#36)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 01:04:30 PM EST
    Peaches: I quoted him. Read the quote. And to clarify: the US influence on the world has been infinitely more positive than the UN could ever hope to achieve.

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#37)
    by swingvote on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 01:13:59 PM EST
    Jondee, Once again with the incoherence. This is "my" site, yet it's also a leftist site? Does that make me a leftist? If so, wouldn't that make you a rightist considering how vehemently you disagree with me on even the simplest things? As for your posting material from other sites, it will take a while to trace your comments back, since TalkLeft doesn't exactly make this easy, but I'll get back to you with a sample of the times you have done so. In the meantime, how about it, Jondee? Why don't you put the attack hand down for one minute and give us all your point of view? Why do you support the U.N.? Why should the U.S. continue to support this corrupt and broken organization of dictators, kleptocrats, and murderers? What is it about Sudan, North Korea, and Zimbabwe that you feel is worth our rubbing elbows with them? Why should the U.S. suport this new, already broken, commission? Or, if you don't want to talk about the U.N., how about explaining why you support dictators in general, yet also support using the full force of the law to stop anyone from doing business with them? Can that circle even be squared? Or maybe you could just give us your views on why you support the use of the law to force everyone to acquiesce to your point of view? Or was your claim to a "point of view" just more of the usual B.S.?

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#38)
    by jondee on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 01:23:49 PM EST
    "Ill get back to you." That oughta be good considering that I havnt done it once. Obviously you dont get irony and Im not suprised. And again, youre obviously very intent to exhibit how much you dont know, but try to keep it to a few hundred words or less in consideration for the adults here.

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#39)
    by Sailor on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 01:24:28 PM EST
    The UN works because it is a collaborative effort. The US tried to impose it's will thru domination; iraq is just the latest example. You guys acts like the UN is some separate entity. It is the combined will of all the member nations, and we have the biggest voice. The US would never have contributed that much to world hunger, health, clean water, AIDs, non proliferation ... the list is endless. What a bunch of John Birchers you zealots are.

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#40)
    by Peaches on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 01:24:51 PM EST
    Ah! Just thought you may have misunderstood him.
    And to clarify: the US influence on the world has been infinitely more positive than the UN could ever hope to achieve.
    Whatever you say, bub. Since this seems to be a Berry day.
    There are some things the arrogant mind does not see; it is blinded by its vision of what it desires.
    --Wendell Berry

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#41)
    by swingvote on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 01:29:53 PM EST
    "Ill get back to you." That oughta be good considering that I havnt done it once. Obviously you dont get irony and Im not suprised. And again, youre obviously very intent to exhibit how much you dont know, but try to keep it to a few hundred words or less in consideration for the adults here. Give me time, Jondee, give me time. And I note that your claim to a point of view appears to have been made in jest. You certainly aren't willing to put yourself on the line and actually say anything. Nice job.

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#42)
    by Sailor on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 01:31:03 PM EST
    you may revere the UN for it's ineffective, foot-dragging obstructionism
    Once again assuming facts not in evidence. It takes time for reasonable people to make a consensus. That's not foot dragging, that's diplomacy. Just because the UN was against an illegal invasion of iraq, that was sold under false purposes, is no reason to champion the cowboy who let OBL get away, and castigate the UN.

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#43)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 01:31:33 PM EST
    In the 20th century, the US simultaneously defeated Imperial Japan and while liberating Europe from fascism. We then rebuilt Germany, again, virtually alone. Utter success. Next, the US led the way toward preventing the spread of communism and socialism. Utter success. Not only did we prevent the spread of communism, we defeated its source, Soviet Russia and tore down the Iron Curtain. Again, an utter success, virtually alone. What similar success in international affairs can the UN claim? Some of you allow your hatred of the current administration to cloud your sense of history.

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#44)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 01:33:57 PM EST
    Oh my final point I forgot to mention: no one will ever claim the US is "irrelevant." Whatever you personally believe, the debate is ongoing and real over the relevancy of the UN.

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#45)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 01:34:35 PM EST
    And to clarify: the US influence on the world has been infinitely more positive than the UN could ever hope to achieve. Positive for whom? The Al Quaida recruiting bureau?

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#46)
    by jondee on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 01:38:52 PM EST
    j.p - Take all the time you want pal. Like I said, put up or quit talking out your a**. If thats possible.

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#47)
    by Peaches on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 01:40:05 PM EST
    Chase, you, histroy buff you. You are so right, the US is not irrelevant. Doesn't that make you feel good now? Help you sleep at night, does it?
    Some of you allow your hatred of the current administration to cloud your sense of history.
    I think you are a little mixed up here. The current administration stole our history.

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#48)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 01:45:14 PM EST
    The current administration stole our history.
    Care to explain that morsel of wit? You sound like Barbara Boxer, kid.
    You are so right, the US is not irrelevant.
    And tell me I'm wrong, but do I sense a tone in there that means you believe the US is irrelevant? You know how difficult it is to read tone in text. and mar: I would say the US has been a wonderfully positive influence on, oh Europe, Asia, South America. As an exercise, I ask you to imagine a world without the United States. What would it look like?

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#49)
    by squeaky on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 01:46:11 PM EST
    Chase-
    no one will ever claim the US is "irrelevant.
    You might want to clean some of the drool off your cristal ball. The Romans were saying something similar in autumn the year 475.

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#50)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 01:47:12 PM EST
    Oh my final point I forgot to mention: no one will ever claim the US is "irrelevant." Actually, many people think the Iraq war was a desperate attempt to restore fading U.S. relevancy. The "American century" was pretty short, about 1945-1989.

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#51)
    by Sailor on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 01:57:41 PM EST
    In the 20th century, the US simultaneously defeated Imperial Japan and while liberating Europe from fascism.
    What an ignorant thing to say. Russia, Australia, GB, Canada freakin' Ethioia and a cast of thousands (of countries) defeated imperliaism. such an UScentric view shows a lack of education, a surplus of ignorance or both. Attitudes like this are dooming us to repeat history. Sheesh!

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#52)
    by Peaches on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 02:01:53 PM EST
    Chase, It is not tone you are having a problem with. The problem is that you think relevancy is somehow relevant (how is that for wit?) The size of our defense budget makes sure we are relevant. Our nuclear arsenal is evidence of our lasting relevance. We are relevant. The question is relevant for what? or relevant to what? What is it about relevance that makes you feel so good? or makes you feel so good about America? Wait, don't answer. Its Friday, I'm bored and I am almost done before the weekend comes. Your answer won't be relevant. Skip it. you can talk to someone else. Sorry, for butting in.

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#53)
    by swingvote on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 02:02:07 PM EST
    Jondee, Okay, I've spent a half an hour going through old TalkLeft threads in which you posted a "comment", and I have not been able to find an instance of you quoting directly from another site. I must have confused you with someone else. So be it. Mea Culpa. I WAS WRONG. I will not make any reference to you doing this again unless I have a direct quote from you to provide at the time. My sincere apologies. I should have confirmed my belief before I said you had done this. I f'd up. My bad. I'm sorry. Fair enough? Now, how about that point of view you claim to have? Got any reason to offer on why the U.S. should stay in the U.N. and join this new commission? Got anything to say at all, or are attacks all you do?

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#54)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 02:05:22 PM EST
    Sailor: Spoken like a true revisionist! Congratulations! You were adequately indoctrinated!

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#55)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 02:24:24 PM EST
    As an exercise, I ask you to imagine a world without the United States. What would it look like?
    For the sake of bandwidth, a very short version: Imagine an American two-state solution in 1865. No significant American involvment in World War I. German victory; no nazis; no World War II; no Soviet victory. Stalin not national hero; communist Soviet falling apart around 1950 instead of 1990. Probably no communist China. Sounds pretty good to me.

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#56)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 02:25:21 PM EST
    I can't help but laugh. Cheers everyone, the weekend beckons.

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#57)
    by Sailor on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 02:51:24 PM EST
    would say the US has been a wonderfully positive influence on, oh Europe, Asia, South America.
    The UN has been, the US, not so much. Remember Viet Nam? Iran? IranContra? CIA drug smuggling? CIA overthrow of democratic governments and installing dictatorships? Want links, I'll give you links.
    Spoken like a true revisionist! Congratulations! You were adequately indoctrinated!
    No facts, just insults. But I find myself led off topic again by the usual perps. The point is that the US is afraid they'd lose the vote, and rightfully so. Torture used to be unAmerican, now it's just unUN.

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#58)
    by jondee on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 03:11:20 PM EST
    j.p - Apology accepted. Now, if you'll just retract what you said yesterday about everyone "jumping to Ariannas defense" on the Huffington Cloony thread, we can start from scratch. Sorry for the o.t folks.

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#59)
    by swingvote on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 05:09:21 PM EST
    Jondee, Please show me where anyone who is not considered a "winger" by the majority of the house trolls here took issue with Arianna's posting of Clooney's interview quotes as a blog entry he made on her site before she herself issued a mea culpa and removed the "entry" and I'll do so. In the meantime, we're all still waiting for a single original comment that is not simply an attack on someone else for having the guts to say what they believe. Where's that point of view hiding, Jondee? It's so strong, can't it stand the light of day? We can start "from scratch" when you stop spewing only venom at other people and actually say something yourself. They are, after all, supposed to be comments about the blog entries, not comments about other people's comments. Even Charlie figured that out, surely you can understand, right?

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#60)
    by jondee on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 05:25:12 PM EST
    j.p - Of the seven or eight participants on that thread, four leftie regulars, Che,Charlie,Scar, and Cpineva pretty much unequivoably condemned what she did. Thats hardly an example of the liberals "jumping to her defense." Retraction please.

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#61)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 06:39:08 PM EST
    Jondee, I don't know why you waste your time with that punk. Seein' him misuse 2 syllable words is only funny for so long. He's dumb as a post and he's a damned liar. He's just a jeepster for his shrub.

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#62)
    by jondee on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 06:45:13 PM EST
    Im done.

    Re: US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organiza (none / 0) (#63)
    by Dadler on Sat Apr 08, 2006 at 10:56:15 AM EST
    We'd remake the U.N. with about the same success as we've remade Iraq, if the current U.S. leadership had its way. The same idiotic assumptions would be made, the same lack of self-criticism and, most importantly, the same utter lack of IMAGINATION. If we had any level of humility, and that absent imagination, we have more than enough power to evolve the U.N., the world, and ourselves into a much more peaceful state of existence. But what do I know?

    US to Stay Out of New UN Human Rights Organization | 63 comments (63 topical)