home

Why Reid Was Right to Doom Immigration Compromise

By Jeralyn, Section Legislation
Posted on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 11:35:39 PM EST
Tags: (all tags)
Share This: Digg! StumbleUpon del.icio.us reddit reddit

Time Magazine has a cogent explanation for why Harry Reid scuttled the immigration compromise bill yesterday. He figured out he had walked into a trap, like the one I described here. From Time:

After initially signing on, Reid decided he might be walking into a trap. Some Republicans wanted to vote on amendments that Reid believed would have essentially picked apart the compromise plan; under one of them, for instance, the Department of Homeland Security would have had to certify that the border was secure before any illegal immigrants could be made legal.

What's more, even if he could defeat the amendments, any bill the Senate passed would have to go into a conference committee with the House -- which wants to build a wall along much of the U.S.-Mexico border, criminalize all illegal immigrants in the U.S., and dramatically increase the penalties against those who help them, from businesses to churches. Looking several moves ahead in a game of legislative chess, Reid feared that the conference would produce something that looked more like the House bill, which currently has no amnesty provisions for making current illegals citizens, than the Senate version.

In other words, H.R. 4437 loomed at the other side of the conference table. Reid tried to get Frist to agree Democrats would have a say in the picking of the conferees, and that members of the Judiciary Committee would be chosen, but it was no dice.

Remember the Patriot Act? How the Senate had one bill, the House another, and the conferees went almost totally with the Republican version? The Senate rejected the conferees version, there was a recess, and then when the Senate returned, despite Democrats like Feingold fighting it up until the end, the final version that passed was not what we wanted.

That's what would have happened here. We would have ended up with weakened protections for the undocumented and most of Sensenbrenner's wishlist of punitive measures.

Better no bill than a bad bill. Sen. Reid did the right thing.

Update: Kevin Drum weighs in.

< A Pattern of Partisan Intelligence Leaks | Brian Doyle Resigns Over Internet Sex Sting, A Prior Incident Surfaces >

  • Premium Ads

  • Blog Ads

  • Contribute To TalkLeft

    donate to TalkLeft


    • Display: Sort:
    Why Reid Was Right to Doom Immigration Compromise | 28 comments (28 topical)
    Re: Why Reid Was Right to Doom Immigration Comprom (none / 0) (#1)
    by scarshapedstar on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 09:43:19 PM EST
    I guess we get to listen to the chorus of "obstructionists! party of no!" now. Never mind that Grover Norquist was the one who famously said "Bipartisanship is another name for date rape"...

    Re: Why Reid Was Right to Doom Immigration Comprom (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 10:41:52 PM EST
    Frist is incompetent. He can't deliver. Reid tried to make a deal, but Frist couldn't deliver the Conference provisions because Sensenbrenner rolled him again. Sensenbrenner is lyin' scum and a lunatic plus the House doesn't know their arse from their elbow now that delay is toast. People want immigration reform but they don't 2500 miles of Berlin Wall - The Sequel. What are they gonna do, have robots of Reagan and Gorbachev dressed up like bricklayers? "Mr Gorbachev, let's build this wall!" Turn it into some kukluxkristiantalibanrepublican theme park and charge 50 bucks to get in and help lay bricks. $49.95 for children under two.

    Re: Why Reid Was Right to Doom Immigration Comprom (none / 0) (#3)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Apr 08, 2006 at 08:00:34 AM EST
    Yeah Charlie the whole congress is a mess and Senselessbrenner is overseeing the criminalization of just about every free expression. It's ironic that the liberal state of my youth just voted to bring the troops home, yet produces excrement like Joseph McCarthy and James Sensenbrenner. Do orange jump suits come in XX Large?

    Re: Why Reid Was Right to Doom Immigration Comprom (none / 0) (#4)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Apr 08, 2006 at 08:31:08 AM EST
    charlie - From the post:
    why Harry Reid scuttled the immigration compromise bill yesterday. ..... Reid decided he might be walking into a trap. Some Republicans wanted to vote on amendments that Reid believed would have essentially picked apart the compromise plan; under one of them, for instance, the Department of Homeland Security would have had to certify that the border was secure before any illegal immigrants could be made legal.
    Imagine how that is going to play, charlie. Can you see it now? Do you have any idea how popular it is for the border to be shut down before we do anything else? "Democrats blocked law requiring border being secure...." I'm LOL about this. The Demos had the Repubs on the run over immigration and the mighty Minority Leader snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. Every Repub must be sore from laughing so hard. Reid is truly one of the worse Senate Leaders in history. BTW - Before you lapse into denial, read the post. That is right above you. Just scroll up....

    Re: Why Reid Was Right to Doom Immigration Comprom (none / 0) (#5)
    by orionATL on Sat Apr 08, 2006 at 09:21:27 AM EST
    when i first read about the great compromis on immigration and what a fine bill it was i was suspicious. then i read about the details five years in the u.s. blah blah blah two years in the u.s. blah blah blah everybody else out of the pool (labor pool that is). trap or not this was a dumb bill, difficult and expensive to administer. more a cover our ass from congress than a serious attempt to help the country solve an important porblem. good riddance i say. once a bad bill like this gets imbedded into government policy it is very difficult to root out. now if some congress critters will put thir heads together and solve the two main problems - loss of control over property and community among american border dwellers and -- the evident need for cheap labor on the part of farmers, small businesses, and some corporations it would be appreciated by all. of course, it is too much to expect our benighted president to exercise statesmanship and leadership in this effort.

    Re: Why Reid Was Right to Doom Immigration Comprom (none / 0) (#6)
    by squeaky on Sat Apr 08, 2006 at 09:42:24 AM EST
    ppj-
    Do you have any idea how popular it is for the border to be shut down before we do anything else?
    Amongst your type, yes, General population, no. Just because our dear leader can manufacture the truth doesn't mean you can too, even in time of war. Two guest posts at FDL explain how the GOP has embraced the racist and xenophobic views of white supremacist groups of the past. The overt language has been rendered to code words in all but the most marginal wingnut blogs. To understand where some of the resident TL commenters are coming from, both FDL posts are well worth a read. Transmitting Extremism by David Neiwert and The Fork in the Road-The Right and Race Online by Steve Gilliard

    Re: Why Reid Was Right to Doom Immigration Comprom (none / 0) (#7)
    by aahpat on Sat Apr 08, 2006 at 10:21:09 AM EST
    U.S. border security: "Creating chaos and instability" Not that immigration reform will do much of anything to secure America's borders anyway. Laborers are not our problem on the border. The "chaos and instability" created by the $ 322 billion U.S. annual retail drug market and that inspires entire support industries into seeking ways to circumvent American border security, that is the problem. "The international traffic in illicit drugs contributes to terrorist risk through at least five mechanisms: supplying cash, creating chaos and instability, supporting corruption, providing "cover" and sustaining common infrastructures for illicit activity, and competing for law enforcement and intelligence attention. Of these, cash and chaos are likely to be the two most important." 2004 Congressional Research Service report to congress, "Illicit Drugs and the Terrorist Threat: Causal Links and Implications for Domestic Drug Control Policy". So the government has known, for years, that the black market created by the prohibition drug war policy is "creating chaos and instability". Including the "chaos and instability" on the Mexican border today.

    Re: Why Reid Was Right to Doom Immigration Comprom (none / 0) (#8)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Apr 08, 2006 at 10:21:26 AM EST
    Squeaky - So it us racist if we want the border secured so we can have some effective reform? And the "General population" doesn't support that? Sorry Squeaky, that is just dumb. You know, comments like that remind me of how isolated many on the Left really are. Poll
    "Stopping illegal immigrants from entering the United States by taking whatever steps are necessary to guard the border with Mexico, including using U.S. military forces"
    3/29-30/06 62% Favor Yes, there is nothing like opposing a measure that the US public favors by a 2 to 1 margin. Smart. Real smart. This is an issue that cuts across all sectors, and the Demos owned it. Your Great Leader just kicked it away. Enjoy.

    Re: Why Reid Was Right to Doom Immigration Comprom (none / 0) (#9)
    by Andreas on Sat Apr 08, 2006 at 11:02:17 AM EST
    The WSWS writes:
    The so-called compromise broke down over a procedural wrangle between Democrats and Republicans over whether Republican Senators opposed to the bill would be allowed to introduce and debate a long list of amendments aimed at making it more punitive, in what essentially constituted a delaying tactic aimed at killing the legislation. The bill accepted by the Democratic and Republican leaders represented in essence a reprise of similar legislation enacted in 1986 under the Republican administration of President Ronald Reagan. However, given the host of repressive initiatives on the border and an even less generous offer for legalizing undocumented workers already in the country, the measure was considerably more reactionary. The fact that such a piece of legislation would be accepted by the Democratic Party and then scuttled by anti-immigrant opponents is a measure of how far the US political establishment has swung to the right in the past two decades.
    Anti-immigrant politics kill "reform" bill in US Senate By Bill Van Auken, 8 April 2006

    Re: Why Reid Was Right to Doom Immigration Comprom (none / 0) (#10)
    by jondee on Sat Apr 08, 2006 at 12:17:14 PM EST
    ppj - Your friends (and fellow social liberals), are on record going-to-the-wall for a guy who probobly holds the indivual record for looking the other way on this issue while he was gov of Texas. Find another phoney wedge-issue you can get behind heart and soul, say, human/animal hybrids,or,publicly flogging WWII conscientious objectors.

    Re: Why Reid Was Right to Doom Immigration Comprom (none / 0) (#11)
    by Bill Arnett on Sat Apr 08, 2006 at 12:40:46 PM EST
    "Democrats blocked law requiring border being secure...." I'm LOL about this. Yeah, PPJ, I'm LOL as well. Any member in good standing in Bush's Republican Guard wanting to recreate the Berlin Wall here in America, totally and forever shatters Reagan's "...tear down this wall!" as useful campaign material. (I can see it now: John McCain standing behind the podium, crowd cheering as he yells, "President Bush, build up that wall!) It also reaffirms that the Republican Guard supports, encourages, and wants to mandate discrimination and enshrine it in law. No wonder the GOP is the party of bigotry and hatred. Studies have shown that racist bigots and homophobes tend to be Republican. It also tends to confirm a recent study showing that children that are whiny, insecure, incurious crybabies are more likely to grow up Republican, while confident, exploring, curious and secure babies grow up to be Democrats. Uh, you ARE Republican, right PPJ? Makes ya proud to wear your GOP button, don't it?

    Re: Why Reid Was Right to Doom Immigration Comprom (none / 0) (#12)
    by scarshapedstar on Sat Apr 08, 2006 at 01:33:04 PM EST
    Kevin Drum has a good rundown here. I liked this part. Frist's actions made it crystal clear that the standard double cross was in the works: agree on a deal, water it down with amendments, gut it in conference, and then eventually present Democrats with a fait accompli: an up-or-down vote on a conference markup that looks nothing like the one Frist and Reid shook hands on. Democrats would then have the choice of either voting for a harsh and punitive bill they never agreed to or else filibustering it and getting tarred as obstructionists by gleeful Republicans -- aided and abetted by credulous editorial boards like this one. But despite what the Washington Post thinks, what was at stake here wasn't the compromise bill that Reid and Frist agreed to -- a bill that might very well have been a decent step forward. That was just flash for the rubes, and Frist knew it perfectly well. Flash for the rubes, indeed. Hey... Who do I see in this comment thread who seems to have swallowed Frist's spin hook, line, and sinker? ;)

    Re: Why Reid Was Right to Doom Immigration Comprom (none / 0) (#13)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Apr 08, 2006 at 05:56:12 PM EST
    Jondee writes:
    Your friends (and fellow social liberals), are on record going-to-the-wall for a guy who probobly
    Did you miss what I wrote?
    This is an issue that cuts across all sectors, and the Demos owned it.
    Now, was that too complicated for you? I agreed with you! I just noted that Reid screwed the pooch. Big time. Bill A - Nope, I'm a proud Social Liberal, registered Independent. Here, read more. Uh, did you actually read the post? And do you always assume that when you are getting beat that anyone telling you the score is...gasp!! Evil!

    Re: Why Reid Was Right to Doom Immigration Comprom (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Apr 08, 2006 at 07:25:11 PM EST
    3/29-30/06 62% Favor
    Jim, I thought you didn't think polls were accurate or scientific.

    Re: Why Reid Was Right to Doom Immigration Comprom (none / 0) (#15)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Apr 08, 2006 at 07:52:02 PM EST
    debbie - Thinking again? The question remains, why did Reid want to stop a vote on secure borders when the Demos desperately need a strong stand on national security to win. He blew it.

    Re: Why Reid Was Right to Doom Immigration Comprom (none / 0) (#16)
    by scarshapedstar on Sat Apr 08, 2006 at 09:00:02 PM EST
    Jim, for christ's sake, enough with the spin. Let me remind you what Reid passed up on.
    Frist's actions made it crystal clear that the standard double cross was in the works: agree on a deal, water it down with amendments, gut it in conference, and then eventually present Democrats with a fait accompli: an up-or-down vote on a conference markup that looks nothing like the one Frist and Reid shook hands on. Democrats would then have the choice of either voting for a harsh and punitive bill they never agreed to or else filibustering it and getting tarred as obstructionists by gleeful Republicans
    Yeah, what an idiot. I bet if Frist offered to crush his testicles, he'd obstruct that, too. What a moonbat this Reid is!

    Re: Why Reid Was Right to Doom Immigration Comprom (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Apr 08, 2006 at 09:11:36 PM EST
    Nice try, Jim. What color is the sky in your world? The American People can clearly see that Frist is incompetent, cat-killin' slime and Sensenlessbrenner is just a might too sig heil for their taste. They want secure borders. They don't want spotlights and machine gun nests every 20 feet. They don't want halliburton overchargin' 'em for Auschwitz-The next generation which is what they see when they look at sensenbrenner, kyl, and cornyn. What evidence is there that America wants anything you're sellin', Jim. Each week is worse than the last for you. No sale.

    Re: Why Reid Was Right to Doom Immigration Comprom (none / 0) (#18)
    by jondee on Sat Apr 08, 2006 at 09:26:23 PM EST
    Nobodys buyin it, but ole three finger keeps shovelin away. Im starting to think theyre giving him free Hannity coffee mugs and t-shirts for doing this.

    Re: Why Reid Was Right to Doom Immigration Comprom (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Apr 08, 2006 at 09:58:06 PM EST
    He's no 3-finger Brown, Jondee. Perish that thought. Mordecai is in Cooperstown. Jim's on his way back to Palookaville.

    Re: Why Reid Was Right to Doom Immigration Comprom (none / 0) (#20)
    by jondee on Sat Apr 08, 2006 at 10:31:57 PM EST
    Whataya mean? He coulda taken Wilson apart that night. It was you Charlie.

    Re: Why Reid Was Right to Doom Immigration Comprom (none / 0) (#21)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 09:28:03 AM EST
    scar - All I know is what the post said.
    under one of them, for instance, the Department of Homeland Security would have had to certify that the border was secure before any illegal immigrants could be made legal.
    Pretty plain, dear scar. Pretty plain. Why doesn't the Left want our border with Mexico closed? charlie writes:
    They want secure borders
    Yes, and the Demos show that the Demos do not. BTW - When I read Jondee's and your comments I am reminded of what Casey Stengel is reputed to have said of the Amazing Mets...
    Can't anybody here play this game?
    Re: Why Reid Was Right to Doom Immigration Comprom (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 10:29:13 AM EST
    Nobody with an R after their name, that's for sure. That's funny, I'm reminded of an original Mets story myself when confronted with the latest let's nuke Iran nonsense and one size fits all shrub apologists like you Jim. There was this big first baseman. Marv Throneberry. Tremendous power. When he made contact. Terrible glove. He could lose ground balls in the sun, that's how bad he was. When he screwed up, the fans would yell, "Marvelous Marv!" They also called him Dr Strangeglove. One day, there was a doubleheader at the Polo Grounds. It also happened to be Casey's Birthday. They'd arranged a little celebration complete with cake between games for Stengel and it looked like they had the first game all wrapped up as a win when the opposition hit a perfect double play ball to short. The only problem was Marv dropped the relay, the game was tied and went into extra innings. In the 13th, Marv came up, hit a tremendous blast to right center for what appeared to be the game winning homer. The only problem was Marv missed second when rounding the bases. It wasn't even close. They had to call him out. The Mets lost two innings later. Between games, they had Casey's Party. Casey made sure everyone got a piece but Marv. Marv wondered why he was left out and Casey said just loud enough for all to hear, "We was gonna give ya a piece, Marv, but we was afraid you'd drop it." I don't know, somethin' about you and the current state of the repos made me think of that story, Jim.

    Re: Why Reid Was Right to Doom Immigration Comprom (none / 0) (#23)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 11:41:21 AM EST
    Posted by Jondee April 8, 2006 11:31 PM
    Whataya mean? He coulda taken Wilson apart that night. It was you Charlie.
    Yeah, they were goin' for the price on Wilson, though. That's politics. They laid some bets down for me, ask Jim. Sorry, Jondee, I missed this earlier. Obviously, I've seen it once or twice. One of the greatest scenes ever shot from one of the greatest flicks ever made. Steiger and Brando. Terry and Edie on the swings. "I remember ya used to have your hair.. ya had it hangin' down in those ... whadda ya call it" "Braids" Yeah, braids. Looked like a hunk a rope. And ya had those glasses and wires on your teeth. You was a real mess." "It was good to see you again, Terry." "Hey, don't go away mad now, I'm just sayin' ya turned out very nice, that's all." Terry Malloy Definitely in my top five.

    Re: Why Reid Was Right to Doom Immigration Comprom (none / 0) (#24)
    by scarshapedstar on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 02:43:36 PM EST
    All I know is what the post said. Okay, so you're ignorant. You cannot sieze upon one provision of the bill as proof that the Republicans won't use their usual dishonest legislative BS. And yet that's exactly what you're trying to do.

    Re: Why Reid Was Right to Doom Immigration Comprom (none / 0) (#25)
    by jondee on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 03:04:07 PM EST
    Charlie, Brando was the Miles Davis of acting. I just got done watching one of my guilty pleasures The Missouri Breaks; eccentric and uneven, but Arthur Penn and the scenes between Nicholson and Brando make up for the other deficiencies. Great stuff. Sorry for the o.t.

    Re: Why Reid Was Right to Doom Immigration Comprom (none / 0) (#26)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 06:06:21 PM EST
    scar - The one provision excuse won't work. Becuase it is the one that would insure that our border is made secure... Why doesn't the Left want secure borders? charlie - Love your stories. You must have been one of the 10 million people in the stands when Bobby Thompson hit his historic home run. Yeah. Uh-huh. Sure.

    Re: Why Reid Was Right to Doom Immigration Comprom (none / 0) (#27)
    by jondee on Mon Apr 10, 2006 at 01:41:45 AM EST
    ppj - "The left" has been puting them to work and paying those dirt wages all this time? You know that isnt true and to keep implying that it is makes you quite simply a damned liar. Kinda like: I never said Terri was conscious, and, I never defended Delay. That kinda thing.

    Re: Why Reid Was Right to Doom Immigration Comprom (none / 0) (#28)
    by jondee on Mon Apr 10, 2006 at 01:50:19 AM EST
    Why was the Left so put out by Dodgers Giants game result? Tell me that.

    Why Reid Was Right to Doom Immigration Compromise | 28 comments (28 topical)