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By Last Night in Little Rock, Section War In Iraq
Posted on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 08:35:36 AM EST
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by Last Night in Little Rock

In an astonding performance, Rep. J. D. Hayworth, R-AZ, declared on Meet the Press that "Immigration Reform" is the most significant issue facing America today. (Streaming video of "Meet the Press" is posted at Noon ET on MSNBC.com).

In a sound bite laden appearance, Rep. Hayworth, representing a border state, and a Republican up for re-election, apparently feels that the wasteful and distasteful War in Iraq, our fostering civil war in Iraq, and the President's treason by security leak, can all be swept under the rug until after the election.

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    GOP Rep. Declares "Immigration Reform" The 2006 Election Issue, Deflects the Obvious | 45 comments (45 topical)
    Re: GOP Rep. Declares "Immigration Reform" The 200 (none / 0) (#1)
    by kdog on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 08:56:17 AM EST
    It's only the most significant issue to politicians...because its a wedge issue that wins them votes with their heated rhetoric. I'm sorry, the Salvadorian landscapers that live next door to me are NOT the biggest problem facing the nation...it pales in compare to the war, the deficit, the trade deficit, and the loss of constitutional freedoms. You're absolutley right Little Rock. It's the 2006 version of the gay marriage issue. The goal is to divide and conquer. I saw him on meet the press...the slime was oozing through my screen. That Hayworth dude gives me bad vibes.

    Re: GOP Rep. Declares "Immigration Reform" The 200 (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 09:13:04 AM EST
    I'm very worried that this tactic is going to work well for the GOP. This morning, I read of a poll showing that Americans now consider immigration the most important issue facing the country. This is absurd, but hot-button issues are almost always absurd. Rationality and facts have nothing to do with how big chunks of the population react to certain issues. When a party with no scruples, dominated entirely by greed and the lust for power, detects that visceral public reaction, they can make that hot button work for them.

    Re: GOP Rep. Declares "Immigration Reform" The 200 (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 09:40:45 AM EST
    Why are you surprised? In the absence of a draft, the war is fairly remote from most people. The widespread unease is not all "get out now", as you seem to wish. In any case, with US casualty rates dropping, it's not on the top of most people's radar. The Plame thing is confusing at best to most people; if you think the Libby case will light the electorate on fire, you're nuts. As to Abramoff, the thinking seems to be widespread that it's a bipartisan problem. Which leaves illegal immigration - something that impacts people everywhere. We all see money being wasted on bi-lingual education, emergency rooms being overwhelmed by people who don't belong here, and angry, irredentist marches in the streets of the southwest. Funny how those all irritate people. The best chance Dems have of winning in '08 is from GOP stupidity on the issue, which could generate a "close the border" third party. That would give Dems one term in office, while the GOP finally realized that border control would be a winning issue. So long as the Dems think that open borders and free goodies for illegals is a good idea, their long term prospects will be very, very dim.

    Re: GOP Rep. Declares "Immigration Reform" The 200 (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 09:41:17 AM EST
    He's obviously an idiot.

    Re: GOP Rep. Declares "Immigration Reform" The 200 (none / 0) (#5)
    by kdog on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 09:59:28 AM EST
    We all see money being wasted on bi-lingual education, emergency rooms being overwhelmed by people who don't belong here
    Compared to Iraq...that's money well spent James. God forbid we spend a nickel on medical care for an undeserving human being!

    Re: GOP Rep. Declares "Immigration Reform" The 200 (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 10:37:37 AM EST
    kdog - somehow, my grandfather - who arrived here in the 1890's with no skills (he had been a farmer) and no ability to speak English, managed to -- learn English -- start his own business and ended up living quite well in Hastings on Hudson, NY. That was without any ESL classes from government. Millions of other immigrants from that time managed to learn English without government help as well - immersion did the trick. What we do with bilingual education is hold immigrants back, and make it harder - not easier - for them to assimilate.

    Re: GOP Rep. Declares "Immigration Reform" The 200 (none / 0) (#7)
    by Edger on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 10:44:32 AM EST
    feels that the wasteful and distasteful War in Iraq, our fostering civil war in Iraq, and the President's treason by security leak, can all be swept under the rug until after the election Nothing like running on the record of your party, is there.

    Re: GOP Rep. Declares "Immigration Reform" The 200 (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 11:16:35 AM EST
    Here's a snippet of a speech from a truly great American: But why... are the American people concerned? Why are they concerned about the present state of immigration laws? Here is why: The most recent studies show that the net costs of legal and illegal immigration to all levels of Government will be $45 billion over the next decade. And this figure takes into account the taxes paid by these immigrants. According to the Attorney General, 26 percent of Federal prisoners are noncitizens, at a cost of $30,000 per inmate per year. When I first heard that figure, I thought there was a mistake... -- 26 percent of the people that are in our Federal institutions are noncitizens. But the fact is, that figure was not something that I heard wrong; the fact is that it is true. The amount that it costs us to incarcerate, care for, and keep those people from the public is the same as for someone that is a citizen -- $30,000 a year. And, the man who said that - and many, many, many similar things - is none other than Mr. Open Borders himself, Harry Reid. Other links around that include Barbara Boxer's decade-old plan to put the National Guard on the border. Maybe the American public could engage in a bidding war to buy those two back.

    Re: GOP Rep. Declares "Immigration Reform" The 200 (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 11:59:44 AM EST
    The Republicans have the White House and majorities in both houses of Congress. How can they blame the failure to pass immigration reform on anyone but themselves?

    Re: GOP Rep. Declares "Immigration Reform" The 200 (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 12:13:09 PM EST
    Gee, who's been minding the store for the last 5 years big media bluff? The last 10 years in Congress? That's when things have really gone to Hell. Who was el Presidente in 1986 when they had that last amnesty you "patriots" are always cryin' about. Gee, it's the same clown who was President on 3/17/88 when saddam gassed his own people and you guys couldn't care less. Right again. Ronald Reagan. And there's no bigger fraud than gonzo. That's repos. Facts, you don't need no stinkin' facts.

    Re: GOP Rep. Declares "Immigration Reform" The 200 (none / 0) (#11)
    by jondee on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 12:28:36 PM EST
    But Ron, (cue: Hallmark moment music),made us feel good about ourselves again..

    Re: GOP Rep. Declares "Immigration Reform" The 200 (none / 0) (#12)
    by squeaky on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 12:43:22 PM EST
    BMB-Check out the driving forces behind the well endowed private prison lobby. They are delighted with the idea of locking up illegals,
    According to the Attorney General, 26 percent of Federal prisoners are noncitizens, at a cost of $30,000 per inmate per year.
    here is a link to get you started.

    Re: GOP Rep. Declares "Immigration Reform" The 200 (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 12:48:03 PM EST
    The Republicans have the White House and majorities in both houses of Congress. How can they blame the failure to pass immigration reform on anyone but themselves?
    They've never let the facts stand in their way before.

    Re: GOP Rep. Declares "Immigration Reform" The 200 (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 12:54:40 PM EST
    Gee, I wonder why that Immigrant guy I read abouts grandson is an idiot. Somehow they never tell ya that part of the story. Did ya ever notice that?

    Re: GOP Rep. Declares "Immigration Reform" The 200 (none / 0) (#15)
    by roy on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 02:09:37 PM EST
    The Republicans have the White House and majorities in both houses of Congress. How can they blame the failure to pass immigration reform on anyone but themselves?
    The GOP is not a monolith on this issue. The pro-amnesty wing has the White House, the closed-border wing has a sizeable chunk of the congress. Plus, Dems have enough of a sliver to filibuster.

    Re: GOP Rep. Declares "Immigration Reform" The 200 (none / 0) (#16)
    by scarshapedstar on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 02:40:43 PM EST
    Yeah, never mention that Iraq is bleeding us dry and will collapse as soon as we leave (i.e. 2008), we gotta deal with The Mexican Threat!

    Re: GOP Rep. Declares "Immigration Reform" The 200 (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 03:02:48 PM EST
    Yeah, like he said, the repos have got nobody to blame but themselves. I'm sure the roys of the world will regal us with a shower of lame repo excuses. That's who they are. That's what they do. Nevertheless, the fact of the matter remains that we will have endured not just a period of incompetent, corrupt, insane theocratic repo stewardship, but the most incompetent, corrupt, insane theocratic repo stewardship in our Nation's History. And bear in mind, this is the Party that brought you Teapot Dome, the Depression, WWII Profiteering, The Do-Nothing Congress, Tricky-Dick, ActI, McCarthyism, Sherman Adams' Vicuna Coat, Communist Cuba, Vietnam, Watergate, Win buttons, 241 Dead Marines in Beirut, Arms for Hostages, Iran/Contra, Osama - the freedom fighter, Saddam, the friend, and Iraq - the lie, and Iran, and yada, yada, yada. Then there's all the crap they do to this place. You get the picture. If you have a brain, that is.

    Re: GOP Rep. Declares "Immigration Reform" The 200 (none / 0) (#18)
    by Johnny on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 05:04:12 PM EST
    Well, some people are arguing that immigration has an overall positive effect on the economy...

    Re: GOP Rep. Declares "Immigration Reform" The 200 (none / 0) (#19)
    by Sailor on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 07:15:05 PM EST
    The net cost of tax breaks for the rich is much higher than some fantasy quoted by some fanatacist.

    Re: GOP Rep. Declares "Immigration Reform" The 200 (none / 0) (#20)
    by Sailor on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 07:23:14 PM EST
    Oh, what heavenly news; repubs, please keep hammering this issue, Hillary and Dean and every other dumb bugaboo your paraniod fantasies concoct.

    Re: GOP Rep. Declares "Immigration Reform" The 200 (none / 0) (#21)
    by soccerdad on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 07:29:19 PM EST
    fear mongering - stage #2

    Re: GOP Rep. Declares "Immigration Reform" The 200 (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 07:34:19 PM EST
    Lyin' for Jesus seems to be big.

    Re: GOP Rep. Declares "Immigration Reform" The 200 (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Apr 10, 2006 at 08:54:46 AM EST
    TL.... apparently feels that the wasteful and distasteful War in Iraq, our fostering civil war in Iraq, and the President's treason by security leak, can all be swept under the rug until after the election. Nice try.... First of all... many people here in the US don't feel the war in Iraq is a waste...or distasteful. (well,.... war is always distasteful, but unfortunately sometimes necessary) As far as civil war is concerned...it may or may not happen. Seems to me you are expressing your 'opinion' as fact? Treason? Again... your wish (hope), but not quite factual yet is it? The "facts" are, illegal immigration is the main focus by most Americans right now. Deal with it.... and like it or not, we will. I know the lib mantra is to always assume the American public is too stupid to really know what's going on and you need to enlighten us & protect us from ourselves...but... illegals are hurting this country and causing the rest of us great harm ...& money. These are the facts and most of us know it. Sweeping it under the rug & ignoring it is exactly what the Dems are hoping for.

    Re: GOP Rep. Declares "Immigration Reform" The 200 (none / 0) (#25)
    by kdog on Mon Apr 10, 2006 at 09:00:28 AM EST
    illegals are hurting this country and causing the rest of us great harm ...& money
    Really BB? I can't say they have harmed me at all....and any taxpayer money spent on them is more than made up at the grocery store on produce purchases. I'm of the opinion it's only a "major issue" because Lou Dobbs and Fox News made it one. The government is hurting the country more, maybe Congress and the WH staff should be deported.

    Re: GOP Rep. Declares "Immigration Reform" The 200 (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Apr 10, 2006 at 09:04:20 AM EST
    Well, BB, if one traces Vietnam from its beginning(Eisenhower)to its end(Nixon), one finds a repo nightmare comin' and goin'. You can look it up. Surprise! Surprise! as that most republican face of Vietnam, Gomer Pyle, would say. Maybe ya can get Gomer to help ya with your homework, BB.

    Re: GOP Rep. Declares "Immigration Reform" The 200 (none / 0) (#27)
    by roy on Mon Apr 10, 2006 at 09:17:06 AM EST
    Charlie, you dear & kind man, Where do you see me making excuses for the Republicans? I'm just pointing out the division. It's pro-immigrant-exploitation vs. anti-immigrant-existance within the GOP. That division could be a good thing for your side. The Left failed to exploit the Right's big government vs. small government split in 2004. How do you think the Left should exploit the immigration split in 2006?

    Re: GOP Rep. Declares "Immigration Reform" The 200 (none / 0) (#28)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Apr 10, 2006 at 10:28:12 AM EST
    Roy, if I misunderstood you, I apologise. Clearly, the Democrats never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. Hopefully, that can change. What you say about the repos is true. Rovesputin has been tryin' to cultivate the Hispanic vote and the business community clearly wants the status quo because they want cheap labor, but the kyl-sensenbrenner, anti-immigrant base of the party wants walls and machine gun nests and they want 'em Yesterday. They're up against it. They need Hispanics. After Katrina, they can kiss even 10 percent of the Black Vote goodbye. They'd be lucky to get 5 percent. They want to placate their real base - the business community. But they need the crackers. No bigots. No bush. No rednecks. No repos.

    Re: GOP Rep. Declares "Immigration Reform" The 200 (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Apr 10, 2006 at 10:44:27 AM EST
    Actually, since you brought it up, BB, there's nothing preventing you from checking your own spelling and finding out what the hell you're talking about before you pop off. If you don't like getting knocked around, raise the level of your own game. Your fate's in your own hands, sport.

    Re: GOP Rep. Declares "Immigration Reform" The 200 (none / 0) (#30)
    by roy on Mon Apr 10, 2006 at 11:26:26 AM EST
    Charlie, no need to apologize, being snarked by you is like being attacked by a puppy. Frankly, I don't know what I want our immigration policy to be. "Wide open border bad, due process good" is about as nuanced as I get. I think our current policy has more to do with tradition than with rationality. Proposed changes seem to be based upon fear of change or vote whoring. I'll give the Liberals credit for -- best I can figure -- being motivated by a desire to not be b*stards, but even in their warm & fuzzy proposals I don't see much evidence of having thought through all the issues. What legitimate government interests are involved? Strength of the economy, national security, standard of living, protecting human rights, and probably more that I've annoyed somebody by leaving out. How would these be affected by the proposal to immediately deport everyone who can't prove he's here legally, or the proposal to open the border and take all the teeth out of paperwork requirements? Heckifiknow. All sides like to assert that their solution makes everything better, and the opposition's ideas would ruin it all, but rarely do they try to ground it in evidence or reasoning. You know, I think I could have written that about any modern issue...

    Re: GOP Rep. Declares "Immigration Reform" The 200 (none / 0) (#31)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Apr 10, 2006 at 11:50:55 AM EST
    So, Roy, just what the hell is it you're tryin' to say? I got the standard liberal warm and fuzzy criticism and the heckifiknow bit and a laundry list of some fairly obvious economic criteria for immigration policy, but I'll be damned if I know what you're drivin' at. If you've got a point under all that, I'd appreciate it if you'd share it with me.

    Re: GOP Rep. Declares "Immigration Reform" The 200 (none / 0) (#32)
    by jondee on Mon Apr 10, 2006 at 12:11:21 PM EST
    B.B - You know this is the issue "most Americans are concerned about" how? Wheres the evidence from last year - or three months ago - that this is the issue most Americans are concerned about? Christ, if the rethug distract and divert machine said the search for Nessie or Terri being abducted by aliens was the major issue of the day you'd be playing that here too. Wouldnt you?

    Re: GOP Rep. Declares "Immigration Reform" The 200 (none / 0) (#33)
    by jondee on Mon Apr 10, 2006 at 12:24:10 PM EST
    What I want to know is, when are we going to get back to gay prayer, school burning, flag marriage and how liberal America turned its back on that pure, white flower of American womanhood Terri Holloway? It seems to me that I was hearing alot about these things not terribly long ago.

    Re: GOP Rep. Declares "Immigration Reform" The 200 (none / 0) (#34)
    by roy on Mon Apr 10, 2006 at 01:17:44 PM EST
    Charlie, The point is only that our political system is doing a bad job of trying to resolve this issue. It's not the most insightful claim you'll read today, but I stand by it. If you think "warm and fuzzy" is a criticism, might I suggest you take up libertarianism? We never catch flak for our compassion.

    Re: GOP Rep. Declares "Immigration Reform" The 200 (none / 0) (#35)
    by jondee on Mon Apr 10, 2006 at 01:21:50 PM EST
    Thats for sure.

    Re: GOP Rep. Declares "Immigration Reform" The 200 (none / 0) (#36)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Apr 10, 2006 at 01:53:34 PM EST
    Posted by roy April 10, 2006 02:17 PM Charlie,
    The point is only that our political system is doing a bad job of trying to resolve this issue. It's not the most insightful claim you'll read today, but I stand by it. If you think "warm and fuzzy" is a criticism, might I suggest you take up libertarianism? We never catch flak for our compassion.
    No, I don't expect you would. You're right though, it's as compassionate as it is insightful. I gotta tell ya, I don't see the appeal. Maybe it'll grow on me in time, but it's not knockin' me out so far.

    Re: GOP Rep. Declares "Immigration Reform" The 200 (none / 0) (#37)
    by jondee on Mon Apr 10, 2006 at 01:56:31 PM EST
    One might make the argument that the travail of the last hundred years or so was the result of macro-libertarianism.

    Re: GOP Rep. Declares "Immigration Reform" The 200 (none / 0) (#38)
    by jondee on Mon Apr 10, 2006 at 02:04:53 PM EST
    Making compassion so small that it can be drowned in a bathtub.

    Re: GOP Rep. Declares "Immigration Reform" The 200 (none / 0) (#39)
    by Slado on Mon Apr 10, 2006 at 02:20:01 PM EST
    Really charlie? Vietnam from its beginning(Eisenhower)to its end(Nixon), one finds a repo nightmare comin' and goin'. You can look it up. JFK and then LBJ escalated the Vietnam conflict. JFK had a hard on for communism...or did the bay of pigs escape your memory?...and LBJ actually lied by making up a military episode in order to justify the escalation in Vietnam. Next ridiculous argument please?

    Re: GOP Rep. Declares "Immigration Reform" The 200 (none / 0) (#40)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Apr 10, 2006 at 02:23:29 PM EST
    I'm sure you'll come up with one soon enough. You haven't let me down yet.

    Re: GOP Rep. Declares "Immigration Reform" The 200 (none / 0) (#41)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Apr 10, 2006 at 02:52:49 PM EST
    Charlie.... Well, BB, if one traces Vietnam from its beginning I have...and Kennedy is the guy that started things rolling. Johnson gets credit for 55,000 deaths though. finding out what the hell you're talking about before you pop off Good advice...now try following it! Jondee.... B.B - You know this is the issue "most Americans are concerned about" how? All you have to do is pay attention (not to mention various polls taken recently). Just the fact there are thousands in the streets protesting proves it's a main issue now. when are we going to get back to gay prayer, .... When the American public has it rammed down their throats (like the illegals are doing now) and they are tired of it.... then it will again be an issue. For example...I'm not anti gay. What you do in your bedroom is your business.. but if you decide you need to parade it dowm main street...and throw it in my face... then it becomes an issue... it's really not that complicated.

    Re: GOP Rep. Declares "Immigration Reform" The 200 (none / 0) (#42)
    by jondee on Mon Apr 10, 2006 at 03:00:37 PM EST
    B.B - You dont see how this "issue" has been engineered? How effing long has illegal immigration been going on? Suddenly its a huge issue. No offense, but dont let these putzes pull your strings and jerk you around.

    Re: GOP Rep. Declares "Immigration Reform" The 200 (none / 0) (#43)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Apr 10, 2006 at 03:03:23 PM EST
    BB, you better check again. Particularly, if you think LBJ has 55K deaths to his credit. Nixon's got more notches on his belt. Look it up. Hey, I'll teach ya to fish, sport, but I'm not gonna chew your damned food for ya.

    Re: GOP Rep. Declares "Immigration Reform" The 200 (none / 0) (#44)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Apr 10, 2006 at 03:04:00 PM EST
    Kdog... Really BB? I can't say they have harmed me at all.... Well they have. Not sure where you are located ol buddy, but here in Illinois the estimate is several million a year. That's several million that aint going to schools... homeless shelters...etc..etc. You need to talk to the people on the 'border states' and see what it's done to hospitals, police & fire, welfare rolls...etc..etc. It hurst us all my friend, wether you see it first hand or not. "Common sense" tells us we can't have millions of people streaming in undocumented...yes? Compared to Iraq...that's money well spent .... Not really. That money should be spent on Americans that need it first... and there are tons of them. God forbid we spend a nickel on medical care for an undeserving human being! If it was just a nickel...that's one thing... but it's hundreds of millions of $$ and it's us taxpayers footin the bill... We need to take care of our own first.

    Re: GOP Rep. Declares "Immigration Reform" The 200 (none / 0) (#45)
    by jondee on Mon Apr 10, 2006 at 03:08:10 PM EST
    slado - JFK was trying to appease you guys and that whole "soft on communism" spiel that was being spun back then. If he had had that much of a hard on, he wouldve done alot more at the Bay of Pigs than he did.

    Re: GOP Rep. Declares "Immigration Reform" The 200 (none / 0) (#46)
    by kdog on Tue Apr 11, 2006 at 07:23:29 AM EST
    BB...Ever hear of Farmingville, NY? It's a hotbed of illegal immigrants, and has received national attention. It's about 10 miles from me. I see what I see, and it is not our greatest problem, not even top 3. Common sense tells me these people will come as long as there are jobs that pay more than they do in their home countries. All the barbed wire in the world won't help as long as employers are hiring illegals in the multi-millions.

    GOP Rep. Declares "Immigration Reform" The 2006 Election Issue, Deflects the Obvious | 45 comments (45 topical)