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Taxing Marijuana

By Jeralyn, Section Crime Policy
Posted on Fri Apr 14, 2006 at 09:02:53 AM EST
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Marijuana Policy Director Rob Kammpia has a new article at Alternet, Your Tax Dollars on Drugs. He writes that marijuana prohibition is a spectacular failure.

The futile effort to "eradicate" marijuana has produced a harvest of misery. By forfeiting any chance to regulate the marijuana market -- you can't regulate what's illegal, after all -- we've given criminals and gangsters an exclusive franchise. We've guaranteed that marijuana will be grown in dangerous locations -- even hidden in wilderness areas or national parks -- instead of by regulated producers who are subject to environmental and labor standards. Unlike liquor merchants, who could lose their very lucrative liquor licenses if they sell to children, marijuana dealers have no incentive not to sell to kids.

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    Taxing Marijuana | 27 comments (27 topical)
    Re: Taxing Marijuana (none / 0) (#1)
    by squeaky on Fri Apr 14, 2006 at 09:36:48 AM EST
    When you think about it nothing makes sense.... Unless you step into the shoes of those on the receiving end of the billions of dollars spent on the WOD. Big Business, big lobby.....wouldn't you fight tooth and nail to keep your job that supports your family. I have read that when a seller is busted the IRS calculates tax owed from the illicit sales, penalties and interest included. Someone told me that they know a pot dealer that always pays tax on her pot earnings. Evidentially her logic is that if she is ever gets busted at least she will be square with the IRS.

    Re: Taxing Marijuana (none / 0) (#2)
    by Che's Lounge on Fri Apr 14, 2006 at 09:45:58 AM EST
    After all Squeaky, that's how they got Al Copone.

    Re: Taxing Marijuana (none / 0) (#3)
    by Che's Lounge on Fri Apr 14, 2006 at 09:46:25 AM EST
    Capone. Coffee didn't help

    Re: Taxing Marijuana (none / 0) (#4)
    by Jlvngstn on Fri Apr 14, 2006 at 09:49:43 AM EST
    I don't know how many of you saw Anderson Pooper the other night with the story of the depressed kid that killed himself after ingesting Salvia but it is another demonstration of how stupid our drug laws are. One kid kills himself and it was a leaf's fault. Where are all the conservatives asking about this kids family life? Why did his parents not take him in for counseling? Were they abusing him? Were they hiding something? Or was the kid simply suffering from mental illness and they were too removed from his life to notice any thing? It is easy for me to cast these allegations inasmuch as it is easy for them to blame the drug and take zero responsibility. Newsflash, your kid kills himself it is not the fault of a leaf, some introspection would be nice. And over and over we hear about the killer weed and how strong it is getting blah blah blah. Yet I can still not find one report of mj killing one person. No links to emphysema, barely any ties to violent crime and the side effects last no where near as long as alcohol. Of course there are too many people supporting the war on pot getting fat off the riches of prohibition. I would much rather our police and federal agencies be investigating violent crime that spending a minute worrying about those who spend their highs eating oreos.........

    Re: Taxing Marijuana (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 14, 2006 at 09:51:22 AM EST
    It's actually far worse than the cost side of the argument shows it to be, for the truth is that the government could be reaping hundreds of millions of dollars in marijuana taxes if the product was legal and taxed like tobacco and alcohol are. And Congress knows this. But none of them are going to stand up and argue in favor of legalizing marijuana for fear of the electoral consequences. What we need to do is elect a couple of Marc Emery's to the Senate, where they could make that argument public, because when faced with the numbers, I think the average voter in this country would decide that taxing marijuana makes more sense than trying to eradicate it.

    Re: Taxing Marijuana (none / 0) (#6)
    by squeaky on Fri Apr 14, 2006 at 10:13:57 AM EST
    jp-
    I think the average voter in this country would decide that taxing marijuana makes more sense than trying to eradicate it.
    If statistics are correct, the average voter smokes the stuff.

    Re: Taxing Marijuana (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 14, 2006 at 10:39:48 AM EST
    Jlvngstn said:
    I don't know how many of you saw Anderson Pooper the other night with the story of the depressed kid that killed himself after ingesting Salvia but it is another demonstration of how stupid our drug laws are. One kid kills himself and it was a leaf's fault. Where are all the conservatives asking about this kids family life?
    So true. It is pure sensationalism that drives the story of the salvia death. I wonder why all the kids who died from alcohol poisoning on the same day didn't get a talk show hour devoted to them? And wow, can it be that I am in agreement with justpaul, i.e., that we need to elect a few Marc Emery's into the Congress and Senate? Where do I cast my vote?

    Re: Taxing Marijuana (none / 0) (#8)
    by scarshapedstar on Fri Apr 14, 2006 at 10:56:10 AM EST
    Well, salvia is really not to be trifled with. I gotta say, though, besides maybe choking on the copious amounts of saliva it produces, I can't imagine how you manage to kill yourself on it; I spent most of my time talking to myself (or, rather, to a whole bunch of apparent separate personalities, each of whom wanted a hit) staring into the mirror because I was sure someone was moving around in it (upon later reflection, this was probably me), and thinking I was an elephant, a black woman, a house, you name it. Oh, and burning my thumb because somehow the ashes in the pipe took on a fascinating nature I can't really describe. It ain't like pot, that's for sure.

    Re: Taxing Marijuana (none / 0) (#9)
    by Jlvngstn on Fri Apr 14, 2006 at 11:06:10 AM EST
    Excellent point lab, I would like to see an hour every night of the kid who died that day with alcohol being a contributing factor. Because I can almost guarantee that there is a death a day from booze. I have no interest in salvia, not my kind of high....It would seem that Anderson Pooper wants to make a name for himself by trying to create the stir that will make it illegal nationally. What kind of journalism is that? I guess just like the rest of the journalism we see nowadays. I love the blogs hate the networks and miss Aaron Brown even though I constantly remarked to my wife that I thought he was smug. Perhaps it is revisionist history but I do not recall Brown being sensationalistic.

    Re: Taxing Marijuana (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 14, 2006 at 11:33:40 AM EST
    I fear the US is decades away from legalizing/de-criminalizing weed. The prerequisite for such an action is an enlightened society. Before this is in place nothing can possibly happen. Given that at least half the population think Adam and Eve rode his and her dinasours, and despite irrefutable proof that the world is slightly older than six thousand years, still exists within the country this climate of chosen ignorance. And given this climate, is there any legislator that would commit political suicide by even considering allowing that portion of the populace that advocates the right to pursue fulfilment of what should be undeniable basic right. Is it not written in your constitution something about the pursuit of happiness? Enforcement of draconion drug laws is about one thing only, control. When the rave scene first kicked off, do you think the establishment was really bothered if the odd raver had an adverse reaction to "E"? Were manpower and resources tied up to stop people dancing? No. The establishment saw that portion of the people that were necking "E" having a great old time, and by such were saying, "We don't want to be part of your society" And it was this that frightened them so terribly. If that group wouldn't confirm to the status quo then they couldn't be controlled. As with the christers, they would have everyone worship THEIR white Anglo-Saxon version of mytholigy, thus becomming members of the church and consquently come under control. Unfailling acceptance of religious/politicl doctrine is, as oft quoted, the opiate of the masses. Those high on this opiate of the one true path have little tolerance for those that would walk with the devil by smoking a little pot.

    Re: Taxing Marijuana (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 14, 2006 at 11:50:51 AM EST
    oscar wilde said:
    Those high on this opiate of the one true path have little tolerance for those that would walk with the devil by smoking a little pot.
    LOL, so true, so true (but I'd like to see a conservative Christian debate one of the hash-hish smoking Indian sadhus as the puff away and sing hymns to Shiva!). The picture you paint is pretty dire and sadly, very much the case, as far as legalization of pot at the moment. But I'm a child of the Sixties/Seventies and I have to say that there is always hope. If you had asked me twenty or thirty years ago if I thought we would ever be in the place where we are now, i.e., with so much open discussion about legalization - and from the quarters that the current dicussion comes from - I would not have believed you. Patience is a virtue, I suppose.

    Re: Taxing Marijuana (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 14, 2006 at 12:17:30 PM EST
    Labyrinth. We be contempories you and I. But as you say, how little we have moved on. My late teens and early twenties I spent in Canada, as long ago as it was I still have that "Feel" for North American culture. My point; 1963 would see me at fifteen years old reading Playboy, it may still well be, but then it was the champion of progressive thought and much like TL today the champion of injustice. What could I have read then that had such a profound effect that it is still with me today? Alabama or Mississippi, that much has faded, sentenced a man to twenty five years. His crime; he flipped a roach out of the car window that subsequently led to his arrest. For this henious crime the state effectivly took away this best part of a mans visit to this plannet.

    Re: Taxing Marijuana (none / 0) (#13)
    by peacrevol on Fri Apr 14, 2006 at 12:58:04 PM EST
    I think the average voter in this country would decide that taxing marijuana makes more sense than trying to eradicate it.
    I disagree. I dont think people would want it legalized b/c so much of our country is so ignorant about pot. All people who've never smoked know about pot is what they were told in gradeschool, which is the propaganda originally pitched in "Reefer Madness" way back in the day. There will have to be a lot of education on the affects of pot and the myths associated with it before enough ppl would be willing to legalize pot.

    Re: Taxing Marijuana (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 14, 2006 at 06:31:59 PM EST
    I guess this is the topic that brings Libertarians, some Liberals, and some Corporatist Conservatives together. I'm going to reiterate my view that allowing more, cheaper, and easier to obtain drugs onto the streets will result in more misery and more usage. All that legalizing/taxing drugs will accomplish is creating more companies like Phillip Morris and RJ Reynolds: companies that profit from marketing and selling death to the uneducated, under privileged, and emotionally ill. Unlike the real drug dealers of today, those companies will be allowed to avoid the consequences of their actions. How can any Progressive in today's America not visualize what Corporate marketing of narcotics would look like and the toll it would take on our most vulnerable? The problem with keeping drugs illegal is far deeper and far more complicated than the idea that the problem lies in the sentencing/punishment. The problem with drug sentencing is the same as the problem with ALL SENTENCING in America: the cornerstone/foundation of our Criminal Justice system is Revenge instead of Rehabilitation. Until that changes, misery continues. Adding more hallucinogens to the mix only amplifies the problem. The misery we eliminate by reducing prison populations over drug offenses would simply be transferred elsewhere in society -- imagine the myriad other opportunities to arrest legally high and/or tripping Americans - vagrancy, truancy, driving while intoxicated, etc.

    Re: Taxing Marijuana (none / 0) (#15)
    by kdog on Fri Apr 14, 2006 at 08:07:55 PM EST
    I'm going to reiterate my view that allowing more, cheaper, and easier to obtain drugs onto the streets will result in more misery
    What if it doesn't make you miserable? Rather arrogant to decide for everyone what substances lead to misery, no? Arresting people over marijuana is what causes unnecessary misery. The premise that marijuana can cause death is laughable.

    Re: Taxing Marijuana (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 14, 2006 at 08:35:18 PM EST
    I knew this was coming. So, I'll give you the canned answer I was hoping to avoid having to explain. Seriously, I am baffled how so many of you here can recognize how Iraq is nothing more than War Corporatism but then when it comes to producing and distributing weed and narcotics, all of you seem to clam up and say that the solution to drug addiction and protecting our freedom is contingent upon our passing responsibility from the Government's hands into the hands of America's Corporations. Next, smoked daily, Marijuana use is a risk to your health. Just like burning leaves in your backyard and inhaling the smoke is bad for you, sucking on the back end of a pipe, blunt, whatever is bad for you. The campaign against Tobacco marketing was/is fueled by Progressive outcry -- why is sucking on a joint sacrosanct but lighting a Camel nefarious? Now, is that my/the whole argument against MJ? No. But it's pretty clear that my first post addressed the legalization of ALL recreational drugs, not just MJ - which is apparently near and dear to many of your hearts for a reason I fail to fathom. But then, I'm not one that finds losing control of my senses enjoyable; it would especially not be enjoyable to have to work with people coming back from their lunch-hour stoned. Finally, if you read my post, you'll see that I don't approve of the manner in which our Government punishes usage of Marijuana or any other controlled substance. But I do support the basic premise of delineating between controlled substances and substances made available for sale to consumers. There are many prescription drugs that shouldn't be on the shelves. (Come to think of it, there are many Prescription Drugs that shouldn't be allowed for sale under any circumstances). But Cocaine, heroin, meth, extasy, and yes, Marijuana shouldn't be on sale for anyone to come pick up down at 7-Eleven either. It's not arrogance, it's wisdom. Take it from someone that has seen enough lives damaged, destroyed, and extinguished from excessive use of "recreational" substances. As much damage as drug cartels, gangs, and mobs do today in distributing "Black Market" drugs, I believe it would be far worse if Phillip Morris and RJ Reynolds took over in their stead.

    Re: Taxing Marijuana (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 14, 2006 at 08:45:11 PM EST
    I guess I need to add for some of you, no, I don't believe that smoking a joint delivers chemicals into your system so toxic that you keel over and die in a short time span, although long term illness is undoubtedly a risk. Instead, to understand this point, try thinking about the reasons Americans choose to self-medicate in the first place. Stress, dissatisfaction with relationships, dissatisfaction with their career, etc. Self-medication using Marijuana or Alcohol doesn't resolve these issues. It only makes things worse. The difference between Alcohol and Marijuana is that it's pretty hard to hide from others that you've been drinking excessively. Marijuana use can continue for a great while, helping to perpetuate a feeling of apathy towards resolving ones demons (whatever they may be). Those that are unable to reconcile these feelings may not be prepared for "recreational use" and may instead fall into a self-destructive pattern of self-medicating to escape.

    Re: Taxing Marijuana (none / 0) (#18)
    by squeaky on Fri Apr 14, 2006 at 09:42:33 PM EST
    Tampa Student- Weed grows like a weed. Very difficult to compete against anyone who wanted to grow their own. Tobacco and Alcohol are much more difficult to make so corporations can easily take over. Your analogy to burning leaves is way off. MJ has shown to have a prophylactic effect warding off cancer. Rates lower than non smokers. It is absurd that it is illegal. Except if you are on the processing side of the crime. Then it is a fantastic money pot.

    Re: Taxing Marijuana (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 14, 2006 at 09:55:43 PM EST
    I'm highly skeptical of a study that shows evidence that MJ reduces Cancer risk, but if you'd like to post a link to such a study, I would read through it. You can grow your own fresh herbs at home too, but most Americans buy them at the grocery store dried and packaged. Next comes the question of marketing, which I've covered. As if our youth didn't have enough to cope with as it is, companies trying to make Marijuana part of our kids self-identification would be a nightmare for any parent.

    Re: Taxing Marijuana (none / 0) (#20)
    by squeaky on Fri Apr 14, 2006 at 10:13:57 PM EST
    Tampa Student-Herbs are more difficult to grow than MJ,... Much less yield per plant as well. STUDY: SMOKING MARIJUANA DOES NOT CAUSE LUNG CANCER Counterpunch TalkLeft

    Re: Taxing Marijuana (none / 0) (#21)
    by scarshapedstar on Sat Apr 15, 2006 at 01:36:44 AM EST
    Instead, to understand this point, try thinking about the reasons Americans choose to self-medicate in the first place. Stress, dissatisfaction with relationships, dissatisfaction with their career, etc. Self-medication using Marijuana or Alcohol doesn't resolve these issues. It only makes things worse. Tampa, that's simply not true. It's abundantly clear from your writing that you've never smoked pot, which I can respect, but as for how they affect thought processes, you're out of your league. There's certainly some truth to Dennis Miller's example of the stoner staring at a frisbee and marvelling at "how f*ckin round it is, man" in that pot isn't always terribly conducive to verbal communication, but it can give very real and lasting insights, the kind that can snap people out of a self-destructive complacency. Speaking from experience here, and I doubt I'm the first or the last. It does not simply deaden the mind like alcohol. At least, good pot doesn't. Bad pot does. That's the kind that you find on the street and in teenagers' closets and that people like myself would very much like to do away with, because nobody in the right mind would tough cheap weed laced with god-knows-what when the real thing is legal. And it's hard to perceive prohibition proponents like yourself, ignorant of a very real distinction, as doing anything but harming people.

    Re: Taxing Marijuana (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Apr 15, 2006 at 02:42:14 AM EST
    And it's hard to perceive prohibition proponents like yourself, ignorant of a very real distinction, as doing anything but harming people.
    Um. Who said I'd never used it? Look, you and I agree on a great many things written about on this site, but please don't insult my intelligence by trying to convince me that when you're stoned you experience no impairment of your senses, no impairment of reflex, or that you have the same judgement. I know better from experience. I can tell that many of you here enjoy using MJ and are heavily invested in the idea of it. But consider for a moment that regardless of your ability to control your own usage of it, others may not have the same ability due to their own particular circumstance. It could be food they over indulge instead. Could be many things. Some people become addicted to substances or behaviors through no fault of their own. But those addictions, whether mild or severe, in my experience, usually -- at the very least -- don't help the individual address or cope with whatever unacceptable reality he/she is trying to adjust-to/recover-from. Government exists as a social contract between citizens. A significant majority of medical professionals have convinced us that some substances should be controlled. While I believe the status quo of excessively punishing and jailing users is unacceptable, I still believe that some mind-altering substances need to be controlled. I feel that MJ should be a controlled substance in the same way that I feel Prozac, lithium, and other anti-depressants should be. I support medical usage of it, but I don't want to see children picking up a pack of joints at 7-Eleven and walking into schools stoned. They may be doing that today, but they'll be doing it a heck of a lot more often when it's all around them and they get the message that "adults can do it, why shouldn't I?"

    Re: Taxing Marijuana (none / 0) (#23)
    by roger on Sat Apr 15, 2006 at 04:34:05 AM EST
    Tampa, You seem very concerned about people coming to work, or school stoned. I would consider that behavior as bad as showing up drunk, that is, completely unacceptable. As for kids, legalization leads to regulation. Just like alcohol, sales and possession by minors would most likely be prohibited. Just like alcohol, it could be obtained, but it probably be harder for kids to get pot if it were legal that it is now. Is pot bad for some people? Probably, but so is Coca Cola. BTW- read some of the science on Coca Cola, that stuff should be banned. Pot is illegal, but twinkies are not. What do you think obesity costs our society? My guess is much more than pot does.

    Re: Taxing Marijuana (none / 0) (#24)
    by kdog on Sat Apr 15, 2006 at 09:06:27 AM EST
    which is apparently near and dear to many of your hearts for a reason I fail to fathom
    Yes, it's near and dear to my heart. The reason being I enjoy it, and have been arrested for it. Why is that so difficult to fathom? Why force me to the totally unregulated black market to live free and as I choose? On this issue my friend, you sound like a tyrant posing as a benefactor. No thanks.

    Re: Taxing Marijuana (none / 0) (#25)
    by squeaky on Sat Apr 15, 2006 at 10:21:35 AM EST
    Tampa Student-The waste/drain on society by criminalizing MJ is far greater than the societal loss effected by individuals using it. It is another way to criminalize the underclass as well as pander to big business and political careers. Farming MJ is a much better thing to do than farming people made criminals because they like to use the drug. The history of pot and criminalization has nothing to do with the drug but politics and corporate power. Are we surprised? BTW-The same ugly xenophobic force that want to make Mexicans felons today is the very same one that made MJ illegal in the first place. Some things never change. For a really good history of MJ and its demonization here. Also, as is clear with ppj and his 'military' experience, personal experience does not give one the seat of judgment and the right to generalize as to what is right for others. MJ affects different people differently, as does military experience. To become a authority on a given subject requires much more than having tried something and liked or not liked it.

    Re: Taxing Marijuana (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Apr 15, 2006 at 01:44:53 PM EST
    oscar wilde said:
    And given this climate, is there any legislator that would commit political suicide by even considering allowing that portion of the populace that advocates the right to pursue fulfilment of what should be undeniable basic right.
    I don't know, that's the conventional wisdom. But even here in Texas when some yahoo Democrat tried to make it a campaign issue that Ron Paul has supported legalizing marijuana, it didn't hurt Ron Paul's campaign at all. I don't agree with a lot of Ron Paul's NO votes but I do agree with his position on marijuana. I think that it is likely that if a politician was to support legalizing marijuana there would be a lot said by his opponent and might be a lot of talk on the right-wing talk shows, but I'm not convinced that it would actually hurt the candidate's chances. Ron Paul's district is one of the most conservative in the state and it didn't hurt him.

    Re: Taxing Marijuana (none / 0) (#27)
    by Dadler on Sat Apr 15, 2006 at 06:05:24 PM EST
    Tampa, Agree with you on much, but MJ prohibition is ridiculous, illogical and, in a word, totalitarian. It's a PLANT!!! Not a plant you process with tons of chemicals, then cut into a powder with some more. You grow it, you harvest it, you use it. As for kids, come on. Kids who are more likely to abuse something have factors well beyond advertising and legality that lead them to abuse substances. And with MJ, you talking about a drug much less harmful than alcohol, so you have to support alcohol prohibition too. Do you? As an agnostic/mystic, I had a harder time trying to explain Easter's origins (which I felt compelled to do) to my five year-old son this morning than I would trying to talk to him about not abusing legal and adult substances. Legalization and the open dialogue it would lead to, and the end to the official "Reefer Madness" demonization and consideration it continues to receive, can only be healthier for the nation.

    Taxing Marijuana | 27 comments (27 topical)