IMHO - Of course I used surmise there, I have not tallied all of your posts and have guessed that there is an 80-20 percentage on the side of the victim, and being that it is a guess and I have a love for words, surmise is the most appropriate. If I were not busy today I would tally them up and accuse, but for now I will go with my gut and say that you are at best cagey and at worst, intellectually dishonest.

If this is your standard, would you agree you would also have to surmise that Talk Left, herself, is also "at best cagey and at worst, intellectually dishonest?"

Can someone post some examples of male defendants whose lives have been ruined by false claims of rape or even other crimes?

I wonder what evidence Nifong would have for his timeline.

Richard Ricci Ray Spencer Nancy Smith Joseph Allen Kevin Fox Peter Rose Sylvester Smith to name a few.

I didn't mean guys who were wrongly convicted, like Gary Dotson. I meant guys who were acquitted or where the complainant subsequently didn't pursue the case.

Can someone post some examples of male defendants whose lives have been ruined by false claims of rape or even other crimes?

You are obviously fishing for something.

But this is not about TL, it is about you and your attempt to claim objectivity and neutrality.

PB - You made the assertion that she has overcame "much"

Again, this is one unlucky woman getting gang raped twice threatened to be murdered by her husband and on the one night when she decides to steal a cab the police go and mess that up chasing her down.

What I also find deplorable is the comparative reasoning of "blame the victim" here which implies that her psychological and criminal background should be exempt or overlooked in the discussion.

You remind me of Foxnews, fair and balanced, from your side of the fence.

Cheshire said the players say the women came to the house separately nearly 30 minutes apart. "I don't think they knew each other," Cheshire said. He said the second dancer to arrive, the accuser, was "substantially impaired."

The accuser is dropped off at about 11:45, about a half hour after the other (second) stripper arrived.

11:50 p.m.: Bissey, on his porch, notices two women walk to the back of the house, where a man greets them.

Midnight: Bissey sees the two women go into the house.

Anyone: could the alleged rape have happened before midnight? After 12:30?

Yeah I'm fishing for examples of defendants whose lives were ruined by a false claim of rape even though they were acquitted or the complainant withdrew the allegation.

For example, there's the St.John's lacrosse team. They were acquitted of rape (although they might have been guilty). I don't know what happened to them. Do people know of other examples?

During the two years that followed the accusation, three of the suspects were acquitted at trial. Four others pleaded to lesser charges, under plea agreements in which they acknowledged guilt.

The steps taken by the St. John's administration in response to their investigation--for example, turning the matter over to the police and suspending the alleged abusers, pending the legal outcome of the case--is a model for how a campus wishing to be free of rape might respond. Unfortunately, few campuses confronted with similar incidents act so decisively. At the end of the legal proceedings, St. John's took the additional step of expelling all but one of the students who asked for reinstatement, on the grounds that they had violated the student code and displayed, in the words of the school's president, "a serious lack of respect for others and even one another." The one student whose request for reinstatement was granted had cooperated with the authorities.

"Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way that I did."

Posted by inmyhumbleopinion April 20, 2006 10:43 AM Peaches, My sympathies lie with the truth. I don't know who is telling the truth here.

I am interested in the red flags comment he made about the defense not releasing the DNA results to the public.

You mean like defendants who became as infamous as those in the Duke case? I don't think you'll find such an example.

Last month, defense attorneys publicly stated that DNA samples taken from 46 Duke lacrosse athletes cleared the players, but Nifong hinted on Wednesday that there may be more to the DNA tests than defense attorneys are sharing.

"My guess is that there are many questions that many people are asking that they would not be asking if they saw the results," Nifong said.

WRAL has asked defense attorneys to see the DNA results, but they have declined the request. Nifong cannot release the DNA results because doing so would be against state policy, he said.

"They're not things that the defense releases unless they unquestionably support their positions," Nifong said. "So, the fact that they're making statements about what the reports are saying, and not actually showing the reports, should in and of itself raise some red flags."

Shortly after Nifong received the DNA test results from the State Bureau of Investigation, he ordered a second set of more sophisticated tests at a private laboratory because the SBI crime lab is not certified to perform them. Nifong said on Wednesday that the tests were ordered because the SBI suggested them.

Many rape cases are solved by the DNA evidence. But in this investigation, the tests have not provided the airtight answers investigators might have hoped for. Meadows [Susannah Meadows, a senior writer, co-author of the article] says that could change in the future. "There may be DNA. In this first round of tests, they did find DNA under the woman's fingernails. But the tests, as to whose it was, were inconclusive," she said." There are new tests that are expected back," she adds, and these tests could lead to other conclusions.

According to a timeline put out by defense lawyers, one exotic dancer, Kim Roberts, 31, appeared on time, but another dancer, who was dropped off by a car, arrived a half hour late.

According to search warrants, the woman reported arriving at the house around 11:30 p.m. March 13, dancing for a few minutes and leaving the house after men at the party became aggressive. She said she returned to the house after one of the men apologized

Yeah I'm fishing for examples of defendants whose lives were ruined by a false claim of rape even though they were acquitted or the complainant withdrew the allegation.

I was looking for defendants who were acquitted. A lot of the men here who are taking the side of the lacrosse team members, were crying about how the taint of such a false accusation would hurt them forever even if they were acquitted. I just wanted to see some examples of that.

imho posted: My sympathies lie with the truth. I don't know who is telling the truth here

You say this and again post 80% (by my estimation) of your comments with negative remarks toward the men. I cannot reconcile this inconsistency. You portend to be neutral, "only fixing inaccuracies" but your editorials are inconsistent with the above statement.

I think you have been intellectually dishonest because you have not provided any positive information about the men in this case, yet have provided flowery statements about the victim. Again I ask, are you being intellectually honest?

The woman has told police she and another dancer hired to dance at the party arrived at 11:30 p.m.

Teresa, To link, with applogies if it's too basic

As for Jennifer Pease coming forward, good police work should have ferreted that out, not the media,

and what sayeth you about Kobe Bryants brother coming forward recently stating that he spoke with the real murderers in that case and it was not Skakel?

I understood your question.

"Ruined" is pretty subjective.

I'm a little impatient for the next round of DNA. The first round seemed definitive for the defense. But of course they reported and defined what the results were.

And that's a pretty dishonest and cheap debating trick to claim that no evidence would persuade me so don't even bother trying to present any evidence.

I was looking for defendants who were acquitted. A lot of the men here who are taking the side of the lacrosse team members, were crying about how the taint of such a false accusation would hurt them forever even if they were acquitted. I just wanted to see some examples of that.

Examples would help show how badly some defendant might be hurt by a false accusation of rape even though acquitted, and whether their lives are permanently ruined and tainted as some have claimed. The lack of examples would suggest these claims are overblown. But I'm still hopeful we can find some examples to evaluate other than Kobe.

Should we expect the publicized results of the 2nd round to be any different?

In an exclusive interview with ABC News, the player -- who insisted on anonymity and whose face was shadowed during the interview -- told ABC North Carolina affiliate WTVD reporter Darla Miles on Monday that last month's indictment of two of his teammates was "probably the most emotional day of my life."

The player choked up as he told Miles how his team was on its way to the national championship when the rape allegations surfaced. He insisted veteran coach Mike Pressler "didn't resign. He was forced out," the player said. "The notion that he quit or resigned is ridiculous."

The AV would have had to have been raped, left and then reentered.

I haven't seen any mention of any photos of the strippers taken before midnight either. If they'd entered at ll:30 there should be photos.

If Roberts said that they entered at 11:30 and they didn't enter until 12, why wouldn't she be honest about that half hour?

Inconclusive: Inconclusive results indicate that DNA testing could neither include nor exclude an individual as the source of biological evidence. Inconclusive results can occur for many reasons: for example, the quality or quantity of DNA may be insufficient to produce interpretable results, or the evidentiary sample may contain a mixture of DNA from several individuals (e.g., a sample taken from a victim of a gang rape). As with all DNA testing results, additional testing may be needed and findings should be interpreted in the context of other evidence in the case.

Your thirst for gossip at their expense is indicative of the depravity in your soul.

chew2, rubber... glue...

In short, you are full of sh*t.

I know they argued at 12:03 but do we know that they actually left the house then?

BOB ASHLEY: Well, I think the next shoe is probably going to be some result of a second test of the DNA, which the district attorney first mentioned -- we reported first this morning, which the district attorney confirmed during their forum at North Carolina Central today. We'll see what happens with that. He hinted, although it's unclear whether he said with absolute certainty, that they may have the identification of at least one suspect.

While the accuser and the defendants are on trial in the court of public opinion (everyone not directly involved), the defendants are the people answering to charges in criminal court.

You are making an extraordinary effort to obfuscate that point.

We'll see what happens with that. He hinted, although it's unclear whether he said with absolute certainty, that they may have the identification of at least one suspect.

In an interview on MSNBC on Wednesday night, Nifong said he would personally try the case, which he said he expected to go to trial in the spring of 2007. Athough defense attorneys have said they have exculpatory evidence that Nifong ignored, the district attorney said it's "probably safe to say" that he has more evidence than has been released.

"Well, one would hope that I would not be proceeding without some evidence," he said. "And there's a lot more evidence in the hands of the defense attorneys right now than most of the public knows about. And I expect that soon there will be more such evidence."

He said the second round of DNA testing, expected back May 15, "has potential to be something significant."

I must have hit a nerve.

Athough defense attorneys have said they have exculpatory evidence that Nifong ignored, the district attorney said it's "probably safe to say" that he has more evidence than has been released.

"has potential to be something significant."

it's rather hard for him to turn around and say that the lack of DNA evidence is irrelevant to the question of whether a crime was committed, since his initial court filing said exactly the opposite.

At the time Nifong made that hint, I thought his hint was in reference to a photo identification.

I have explicitly stated in prior posts that the principle of "innocent until proven guilty" applies to jurors.

You may consider that claim "obfuscation," but I think this idea actually clarifies our duty as discussants outside the courtroom.

Our duty is simply to be fair to the disputants. We have no duty to prefer one story to the other, or to prefer, by some arbitrary rule, one disputant's innocence to another's.

Is he saying that he DOES have some of the evidence the defense wanted to give him? Or just that he has more evidence than we and the defense know?

He sure is setting himself up to look foolish if those results don't help his case.

to khartoum - the DNA being "inconclusive" is not unusual if there were multiple contibutors (i,e. gang rape), but in this case only 1 is accused of vaginal penetration so should the vaginal DNA still be "inconclusive"???

I further took that to mean that he had evidence that sex -- perhaps rough sex -- had taken place that night. And if the AV claimed it was rape, then rape it was going to be from the point of view of the DA's office. Now Nifong may be having second thoughts about the AV's version of events, and maybe even how fast and how far he stuck out his own neck to defend her version of events.

If indeed he has DNA evidence, but it points to someone else, then I think that Nifong will have a moral dilemma trying to convict three people who did not leave their DNA on the AV and exonerate anonymously another person who did.

Your "duty" is assumed.

But it doesn't mean that my idea of duty is arbitrary.

On the other hand, the "presumption of innocence" doesn't rise to the level of a value at all. It's a policy. And it's a policy people only enlist, in the outside world, when it's in their interest.

The principle that there is a presumption of innocence in favor of the accused is the undoubted law, axiomatic and elementary, and its enforcement lies at the foundation of the administration of our criminal law....

Had Nifong chosen to charge the dancer from the get-go with filing a false police report, do you imagine that you would be arguing at this website that the Duke students had actually brutally raped her? On the grounds that she was innocent until proven guilty?

One of the reasons that defense attorneys rank at about the level of used car salesmen in our society as far as trustworthiness goes is that defense attorneys come about as close as anyone can to treating the "presumption of innocence" as a value.

What they lose in credibility from this policy they make up for in market share.

but anything much after 12:14 doesn't seem to involve [Seligman]

Question: if a defendant proves that he wasn't on the scene when the crime allegedly occurred, can the judge acquit him without exposing him to the whims, prejudices, and possible stupidity of a jury?

Chew2. Perhaps the reason there are no examples is that nobody bothers following the cases. As in, nobody cares.

Bryant is still making money as a fabulous athlete. What it cost him emotionally is another subject, and how others will look at him in the future will never be quantified

Would you be looking for somebody who lost a job? Got beaten up by the accuser's family or friends? Became a drunk? Never got the kind of job he might otherwise have gotten?

If indeed he has DNA evidence, but it points to someone else,

Is evidence of specific instances of sexual behavior offered for the purpose of showing that the act or acts charged were not committed by the defendant;

I am not going to play the "what if" game with you because it accomplishes nothing and further diverts the attention away from the issue at hand.

You need to get something straight about the presumption of innocence. It is not a policy, it is a legal right of the accused

Your contempt for defense attorneys shows your obvious bias towards this site and this case.

If you are claiming that I am breaking the law if I presume someone to be guilty of a crime OUTSIDE of a courtroom, I disagree. The rights of conscience are inalienable.

Thought experiments are what they are.

I believe strongly in the instructions to the jury that they presume the innocence of the accused. What makes you think I think otherwise?

The results can be devastating. In 1996, Los Angeles police officer Harris Scott Mintz was accused of rape by a woman in the neighborhood he patrolled and then by his own wife as well. At a pretrial hearing, the judge pronounced that he had no doubt about Mintz's guilt. Then Mintz's wife admitted that she made up the charge because she was angry at her husband for getting in trouble with the law; subsequently, Mintz's attorneys uncovered evidence that the first accuser had told an ex-roommate she had concocted the rape charge to sue the county and that she had tried a similar hoax before. By the time the case collapsed, Mintz had spent five months in jail.

What you are doing is obfuscating the meaning and intent of the "presumption of innocence".

Nifong watched election returns Tuesday in a government building across the street from the courthouse. When his win became apparent, lawyer James "Butch" Williams, who represents one of the team captains, shook the district attorney's hand and put an arm around him.

"My congratulations to him was personal," Williams said moments later. "Working a case, that's business."

Another lawyer representing a team captain, Kerry Sutton, wore a yellow Nifong T-shirt and stood outside a polling location Tuesday pressing voters to support the incumbent.

"I live in this county, and I work in this county, and I represent the people of this county," Sutton said. "Although I don't necessarily agree with every position that he took in this case, I have always thought he would be the best man for the job."

I don't think Chew would accept the Mintz case. There is no quantifiable evidence about what happened to him after he got out of jail.

Intellectual dishonesty is the creation of misleading impressions through the use of rhetoric, logical fallacy, fraud, or misrepresented evidence. It may stem from an ulterior motive, haste, sloppiness, or external pressure to reach a certain conclusion. The truth value of work may be lost as a result.

Had Nifong chosen to charge the dancer from the get-go with filing a false police report, do you imagine that you would be arguing at this website that the Duke students had actually brutally raped her? On the grounds that she was innocent until proven guilty? If your answer is yes, what have you proven? Only that consistency is the hobgoblin of a foolish mind? If your answer is no, well, then you've admitted that the presumption of innocence is not a core value.

seem to think that once a prosecutor brings charges against a defendant the society becomes obligated by law to regard that person as innocent until the facts come in. But there are an enormous number of good reasons not to do that. Should parents blindly send their kids on field trips with the school teacher who has just been charged with pedophilia? Great idea!

I'm sure there may be examples to the contrary, and that's what I was looking for. Instead I got over the top insults.

IMHO - your respsonse is "You don't know what intellectual honesty is?"

I think you know what intellectual dishonesty means. The above is not an example of it.

I think you have been intellectually dishonest because you have not provided any positive information about the men in this case, yet have provided flowery statements about the victim. Again I ask, are you being intellectually honest?

I guess you can believe that being falsely accused of rape is not harmful

[to] deny negative consequences of false prosecution was a pretty lame exercise

Examples would help show how badly some defendant might be hurt by a false accusation of rape even though acquitted, and whether their lives are permanently ruined and tainted as some have claimed. The lack of examples would suggest these claims are overblown. But I'm still hopeful we can find some examples to evaluate other than Kobe.

Not to mention Macromania's incoherent and inane cries of "strawman" "strawman". Show me the money Macromania. Show me some examples of defendants who were tainted by the notoriety.

Mintz came out of it better off than he went in - he got rid of his wife (I hope).

In an earlier comment, I clearly showed how you created and refuted your strawman.

Unless I hear otherwise from another poster that my argument if daft, I will assume you are incapable of recognizing your hypocrisy.....

they entered at 11:30 and they were seen going into the building again by Bissey around midnight. That means that if you believe Bissey, they would have reentered the house at midnight.

They then claim that the publicity of this rape charge will forever taint them and ruin their lives, the whole team not just the accused, even if acquitted or the charges are shown to be false. So I ask for examples of lives ruined because of such negative notoriety.

After all, you are not "only committed to finding the truth" you are committed to painting the men in a negative light and the woman in as positive a light as possible. Which of course, there is nothing wrong with that provided you retract your "committment to the truth" or is it that you did not say "the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth" so there is an exemption? Sort of like what the definition of is, is.?

My sympathies lie with the truth.

I don't know who is telling the truth here.

I think you have been intellectually dishonest because you have not provided any positive information about the men in this case, yet have provided flowery statements about the victim. Again I ask, are you being intellectually honest?

According to my daughter, who is a sophomore at Duke, two unindicted seniors who are members of the lacrosse team and had accepted job offers received "dear John" letters from the erstwhile employers after the case hit the headlines. Chew2: your rhetorical momentum may compel you to poo-poo this, but I doubt you'd have taken it lightly if it had happened to *you*.

No I don't disbelieve that could occur, assuming it was because of the rape publicity and not for other reasons.

Plus other misconduct has been revealed by this case, and some, including myself, may hold their wall of silence against them.

According to my daughter, who is a sophomore at Duke, two unindicted seniors who are members of the lacrosse team and had accepted job offers received "dear John" letters from the erstwhile employers after the case hit the headlines. Chew2: your rhetorical momentum may compel you to poo-poo this, but I doubt you'd have taken it lightly if it had happened to *you*.

I will go back and cut and paste the exact descriptions of the men and the woman in this case to prove your intellectual dishonesty relative to your argument that your sympathies lie with the truth, because they do not.

Kobe Bryant is an example who has suffered no lasting taint

I only ask for evidence or examples of lasting taint from the negative publicity.

and it's not even clear he [Kobe] wasn't in fact guilty

IMHO - I will go back and cut and paste the exact descriptions of the men and the woman in this case to prove your intellectual dishonesty relative to your argument that your sympathies lie with the truth, because they do not.

So how was Pagones tainted? He scored several hundred thousand dollars in a defamation suit, and went on to become an assistant attorney general.

If this is the case, then IMHO participation in this conversation is evidence enough that his or her sympathies lie with the truth--even if the statement is meaningless.

If the two entered at 11:30 and the victim wasn't raped during that half-hour period we are back to the time constraints of the rape having to have occurred between approximately midnight and twelve-thirty.

I could say, Scottsboro Boys, and then, as she tends to do, she would either discount the tribulations of false accusation, or narrow it again by saying, well, falsely accused but not falsely convicted, or limit the test cases to "white males."

You asked about Kobe taint, chew2. It's real and it exists, whether or not you choose to accept it.

All these over a drunken false accusation with no evidence and a very malicious, calculating albeit incompetent DA.

SUO made a reference to Chew2 sounding like jesurg. This is ridiculous and he knows it.

If they were indeed a team which showed exemplary behavior, the accusations of rape against two of its members might not have worked against them quite so much

Peaches, if what you said were accurate I would agree with your assessment, and referring to Nietzche or Dewey in support of your argument is asinine.

In the next week or so, we will be hearing a very good alibi for Colin Finnerty

He is a great b-bal player who I am glad was acquited -so I can watch him play (and hate him as I always have, not because he is a rapist, but because he doesn't pass the ball)

I can't remember the reason for the disagreement between Chew and the others.

I was looking for defendants who were acquitted. A lot of the men here who are taking the side of the lacrosse team members, were crying about how the taint of such a false accusation would hurt them forever even if they were acquitted. I just wanted to see some examples of that. Examples would help show how badly some defendant might be hurt by a false accusation of rape even though acquitted, and whether their lives are permanently ruined and tainted as some have claimed.

Have you no decency? At long last, have you no compassion? Have you no sense of justice?

Also could anyone answer my question about the possibility of disbarring Nifong upthread?

The accuser is dropped off at about 11:45, about a half hour after the other (second) stripper arrived. By midnight, according to a photo, the two are almost naked on the beige carpet in front of their visibly happy audience.

Nifong directed the very questionable photo array.

Nifong might have shared evidence with the Black Panthers, an anti-semitic org in a case involving a semi-jewish person (Seliegeman).

Also by fanning racial flames (46/47 DNA even though there are members not in Durham, NCCU pep rally, 70 interviews), he might have infringed the civil rights of the two defendants.

Nifong was a little overzealous in talking to the press. But as a practical matter, the difference between 70 interviews and 1 press conference isn't really that big. It's not like he was saying anything different at any of those interviews and he certainly didn't name either of the suspects.

Seligmann is Jewish? He went to a Catholic HS.

If they did arrive by 11:30 there is plenty of time to get mad and leave and be coaxed back in to dance by just after midnight. She wanted back in for her shoe/money at 12:30 but we don't know if she was let in or not.

Again, Bissey said they went back into the house at about 12:30

That's why I (and Teresa, I think) am saying that Nifong had better have a witness, DNA, or other physical evidence. Otherwise, this case is lost.

There has been a poster here whom I shall not name who has been very loud about the proof of the nurse's examination based on Nifong's several snippets

The defense team is doing a masterful job of trying this case before it ever gets to trial.

The lineup situtation was sloppy ... but it's not illegal or even unethical.

PB - You give us one case where media frenzy has "helped" and that is enough for you to say it is ok to verbally slaughter unjudged defendants?

No, the police notify the school administration and the teacher is placed confidentially on administrative leave until the matter is cleared. No kids are at risk, the teacher gets to defEnd themself, and the publics thirst for gossip goes back to Tom Cruise and George Bush.

Orinoco, the search warrant for Ryan M.'s room says according to medical reports the accuser has signs, symptoms and injuries consistent with vaginal and anal rape. Furthermore, the SANE nurse states the injuries and behavior are consistent with a traumatic experience.

I don't think the police did find out who was at the party. Otherwise Reade wouldn't be charged.

Also, wasn't the police invasion after the photo array.

Why? Because a SANE nurse isn't qualified to render an opinion on whether the injuries were consistent with rape, according to a SANE manual posted on the Lordsutch blog.

Sloppy? That implies that the stacking of the deck, contrary to usual procedure, was merely inadvertent. How do you know that?

Recall that before they conducted the photo lineup, the police went into a dorm without a warrant to talk to lacrosse players who were represented by attorneys, without notifying the attorneys, and what they wanted to find out, and apparently did find out, was which members of the team were *not* present.

Just to nit pick a bit

believe azbballfan said a while back that traces of date rape drugs are sufficient to prove rape in a court of law in Arizona, even without physical proof of rape.

My guess is that the cops were trying to get this information as a way of testing the validity of the AV's ID.

My guess is that the cops were trying to get this information as a way of testing the validity of the AV's ID.

The holding wouldn't relieve the prosecution from its burden of proof regarding the identity of the assailant.

Why wouldn't Nifong bring some of the lacrosse players in front of the grand jury if he wants to compel testimony? If he knows which ones didn't commit the rape, they couldn't claim the fifth, right? Am I right? Could it be at this late date that Nifong doesn't know who did what?

PB - when that kid mails [the postcards] out, that kid is not making money off of the mailing, in fact he is losing money.

I do not care for the jlvngstn shield law. I do however prefer the PB elimination of gossip about a presumed innocent party from getting nationally assaulted verbally law.

Are you aware that photos of defendant Seliegman are almost idential to that of another team member whose name escapes me at this time. Their photos were posted in a prior thread by IMHO.

No PB you prosecute the parents, for aiding and abetting a crime. The child has no right to proclaim the guilt of the teacher en masse.

He's sat eye to eye with the victim, heard her story, and believes her.

currently under probation for grand larceny in 2002

No vaginal or seminal fluid, no skin, blood, or hair were found anywhere in the bathroom, bath towels, bath rug, door handle, bathroom floor, basin, water faucet handle, etc.

Does her body defy basic physiology capable of keeping any ejaculate from spilling out?

A man cannot take off a condom and not get DNA from himself or the female on his hands and not transfer it to everything he touches.

Does the accuser have inhuman anal sphinter control that prevented any of the ejaculate from dripping out?

Did she lick up every drop and swallowed any evidence?

Stripper claim bruises were result of an attack from three boys:

Fact: Time-stamped photos prove stripper arrived bruised and cut while drunk.

Nifong stated that a condom was used, if this is true than where is the spermicidal lubricant evidence?

and these boys have airtight alibis

Or pretends to [believe the AV], for self-serving motives that seem fairly obvious.

For example, there's the St.John's lacrosse team. They were acquitted of rape (although they might have been guilty). I don't know what happened to them. Do people know of other examples?

During the two years that followed the accusation, three of the suspects were acquitted at trial. Four others pleaded to lesser charges, under plea agreements in which they acknowledged guilt.

The steps taken by the St. John's administration in response to their investigation--for example, turning the matter over to the police and suspending the alleged abusers, pending the legal outcome of the case--is a model for how a campus wishing to be free of rape might respond. Unfortunately, few campuses confronted with similar incidents act so decisively. At the end of the legal proceedings, St. John's took the additional step of expelling all but one of the students who asked for reinstatement, on the grounds that they had violated the student code and displayed, in the words of the school's president, "a serious lack of respect for others and even one another." The one student whose request for reinstatement was granted had cooperated with the authorities.