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Defiant, Belligerant Moussaoui Sentenced to Life

By Jeralyn, Section Terror Trials
Posted on Thu May 04, 2006 at 07:30:25 AM EST
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Zacarias Moussaoui gave a political lecture at his sentencing today. He mocked victims who spoke, saying the U.S. is hardly the country of peace and love. He said the U.S. lost an opportunity to find out why people like him and Mohammad Attah hate America so much, and if we won't listen, we will feel it..again, they will be back. Of course, there was a "long live Osama." (no link yet, I heard this all on tv.)

The Judge told him that his comment yesterday about winning was wrong, that everyone in the courtroom will be free today to leave and go where they want, smell the fresh air, see the sunlight, and he will be locked in a tiny supermaximum prison cell.

He is going to Supermax at Florence, the media doesn't know when since that's up to the Bureau of Prisons. I remember that after McVeigh's sentencing, he was on his way to Florence either that day or the next. Of course, Denver is a lot closer to Florence but still, now that Moussaoui has been sentenced, I think they will get him out of Virginia very quickly.

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    • Defiant, Belligerant Moussaoui Sentenced to Life | 15 comments (15 topical)
    Re: Defiant, Belligerant Moussaoui Sentenced to Li (none / 0) (#1)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu May 04, 2006 at 08:02:57 AM EST
    good fair sentence, must have been very difficult for the jury.

    Re: Defiant, Belligerant Moussaoui Sentenced to Li (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu May 04, 2006 at 08:13:19 AM EST
    Although I have read how many people are upset he didn't get the death penalty, I am 100% glad he doesn't get 'martyrdom' by his actions.

    Re: Defiant, Belligerant Moussaoui Sentenced to Li (none / 0) (#3)
    by scribe on Thu May 04, 2006 at 09:06:30 AM EST
    This is a prosecution - for alleged involvement with the 9/11 incidents - that never should have been brought. I wonder how the folks so enthused by this prosecution would react were similar theories of conspiracy law applied to them. Scooter? Rover? Deadeye? Moussaoui was a knuckleheaded schlub and sympathized with Al Queda, but I have had the sense that he was making stuff up just so as to be executed and get his martyrdom. If he was to have been prosecuted, he should have been appropriately charged. He was overcharged. He should not have been made the subject of a show trial for revenge's sake. But, his "I won" proclamation has some logic behind it. In the sense that his prosecution got the courts to bend over for the Unitary Executive and allow him to be prosecuted without confronting his accusers - people being held in secret prisons overseas and tortured there provided some of the information used against him - and the Fourth Circuit allowed this to go forward in the face of the Sixth Amendment's plain command to the contrary. Indeed, the Fourth Circuit more or less required Moussaoui's own attorneys to go along with the government and assist in preparing the summary of "evidence" taken from those tortured non-witness witnesses. So, in this prosecution we got a major chunk taken out of both the Confrontation Clause and the Effective Counsel right. There's a real benefit, hmmmm? And then, there's the damage done to the Fifth Amendment. Recall, the Judge had severe misgivings about the government's theories of the case - (1) because you exercised your right to not tell us anything, you're responsible for the deaths of people pursuant to a plot you may (or may not, given your propensity for making stuff up) known about; and (2) because you lied to us about something you may (or may not) have known about, you're responsible for all the results of that plot. And the Government made a point of conflating "not saying anything" with "Lying" at every chance they got. This, particularly theory (1), surely gives great cheer to those pounding the tub for criminalizing failures to report suspicious activity. Pavlik Morozov*, meet James Sensenbrenner. And, in the same minute, those who hate Miranda got another arrow in their quiver. And, recall the judge reversed her exclusion of government testimony after witness tampering by one of the government attorneys and allowed it in, even though the government had made clear (previously) that the witnesses excluded were The People With The Information (and any others would be speculating), and in violation of the witness list requirement and so on. (.pdf, in link, see pages 9-12 and 16-23). And, I'm still mystified how this got venued in the E.D. Va., where Moussaoui apparently never had been before the trial. Other than a supple-for-the-government Fourth Circuit and a hole in the ground (with which his connection was more-than-dubious), the case had no business in Virginia. Another Constitutional guarantee trashed. And the Judge's remark at sentencing about breathing fresh air? Well, there's more to freedom than mere fresh air (though fresh air has a lot to recommend it). There was a lot of fresh air in Stalin's Kolyma gold mines, but no one ever confused that sort of living with "freedom". Her comment betrays a shallow understanding and appreciation of how the Constitution should protect society against its government's overreach by protecting an accused. Frankly, I think she failed and I think history will bear me out. This case was a bad precedent, did a lot of damage, and things will only go downhill from here. I don't dispute that the defense lawyers did a masterful job with the mess they were handed. They did. And it was a mess of monumental proportions. Problem is, we had more damage done here than a couple of buildings knocked down, some planes crashed and 3000 people killed. This case, and the adminstration pushing it, did serious damage to the Constitution they swore to "support, uphold and defend against all enemies, foreign and domestic", and surely did not "bear true faith and allegiance to the same". I have no idea whether Moussaoui would (or could, nuts as he is)articulate it the same way. But, I speculate he understands that terrorism, and moreso the administration-kindled fear of it, are leading us to devour ourselves and our freedoms, only to be left with more fear. --- * While Wiki notes the likelihood that a lot of the story surrounding Morozov was "puffed" by Soviet propaganda, the gist of the propaganda - informing = good, right to remain silent = bad - remains his most important legacy.

    Re: Defiant, Belligerant Moussaoui Sentenced to Li (none / 0) (#4)
    by Edger on Thu May 04, 2006 at 09:59:07 AM EST
    Great dissection of the complexities and ramifications of this case, Scribe. Thank you for that.

    Re: Defiant, Belligerant Moussaoui Sentenced to Li (none / 0) (#5)
    by chew2 on Thu May 04, 2006 at 10:02:05 AM EST
    TL said this
    how proud I was of the defense team in this case and what they had to work against -- not only the investment of the country in a death verdict to retaliate against someone for 9/11 -- but their own client who hated them and not only wouldn't assist them,
    Was it ever possible to have found attorney's Moussaoui would have accepted or trusted. Was a Muslim attorney offerred? Why did they force him to take a Jewish attorney?

    Re: Defiant, Belligerant Moussaoui Sentenced to Li (none / 0) (#6)
    by Che's Lounge on Thu May 04, 2006 at 10:12:22 AM EST
    Thank you Scribe. Well put.

    Re: Defiant, Belligerant Moussaoui Sentenced to Li (none / 0) (#7)
    by squeaky on Thu May 04, 2006 at 10:15:17 AM EST
    Thanks scribe for clearly elaborating how fake the US has become. Freedom fried with a side of Constitution crushed.

    Re: Defiant, Belligerant Moussaoui Sentenced to Li (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu May 04, 2006 at 11:07:09 AM EST
    scribe -
    And, I'm still mystified how this got venued in the E.D. Va., where Moussaoui apparently never had been before the trial. Other than a supple-for-the-government Fourth Circuit and a hole in the ground (with which his connection was more-than-dubious), the case had no business in Virginia. Another Constitutional guarantee trashed.
    I know next to nothing about this case. But I'm pretty sure venue is ok here. M was charged with conspiracy in connection with the 9/11 plot, including the attack on the Pentagon. My recollection is that federal venue is proper, with respect to a defendant charged with criminal conspiracy, in any jurisidiction in which any member of the alleged conspiracy committed any overt act in furtherence of the underlying crime (I'm not sure if "overt act" is the exact standard, but its somthing along those lines). In any case, that M's alleged coconspirators crashed a plane into a building in Northern VA (the pentagon) is probably more than enough to support venue there. I could be wrong though.

    Re: Defiant, Belligerant Moussaoui Sentenced to Li (none / 0) (#9)
    by squeaky on Thu May 04, 2006 at 11:21:02 AM EST
    C & L has a clip of one to the 9/11 family members:
    BREITWEISER:  Yes, I have to say two things really.  No. 1, now that the Moussaoui penalty phase is over, I certainly hope that the information will be flowing freely to the American people.  For four years, I and many other 9/11 family members have fought very hard to have information released go the public, information about governmental failures.  We were always told that we couldn't have that information because it would harm Moussaoui's right to a fair trial. Having said that, I would appreciate someone asking either Senator Biden or former Mayor Giuliani, if their standard for death is withholding information from the FBI that could have prevented the 9/11 attacks--how then are we excusing FBI agents Maltbie and Frasca, who were accused, or allegedly accused in the Moussaoui penalty phase itself, of being criminally negligent with regard to giving a FISA warrant.
    See the clip here.

    Re: Defiant, Belligerant Moussaoui Sentenced to Li (none / 0) (#10)
    by cpinva on Thu May 04, 2006 at 03:05:44 PM EST
    first, Moussaoui "wins" either way, in his mind. really, his perception is the only one that matters, to him. everything and everyone else is superflous. second, scribe, longer winded than i, pretty much dissected the govt's "case", such as it was. in actual fact, the guy is a martyr, a scapegoat, for those guys who really were involved in 9/11, which he wasn't. what we have here is the tortured, twisted and convoluted assertions, of a DOJ desperate to convict someone of something, even if there isn't a specific law against it, whatever "it" is. heads, he wins, tails, we lose.

    Re: Defiant, Belligerant Moussaoui Sentenced to Li (none / 0) (#11)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu May 04, 2006 at 03:32:32 PM EST
    Scribe writes:
    for alleged involvement
    What part of "He confessed don't you understand?" Chew2 writes:
    Why did they force him to take a Jewish attorney?
    And your point is what? That a Jewish attorney wouldn't do a good job?

    Re: Defiant, Belligerant Moussaoui Sentenced to Li (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu May 04, 2006 at 04:13:42 PM EST
    I hate vulgar realism in literature. The man who could call a spade a spade should be compelled to use one. It is the only thing he is fit for.

    Re: Defiant, Belligerant Moussaoui Sentenced to Li (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu May 04, 2006 at 04:21:05 PM EST
    Supermax. What are some of you in the dark ages. This man will be on the first plane back to Saudi Arabi. This is a set-up. This trial is bogus. Bush won't have it in his heart to put someone behind bars that helped bail him out as being somewhat cognitive in his war on terror.

    Re: Defiant, Belligerant Moussaoui Sentenced to Li (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu May 04, 2006 at 05:05:40 PM EST
    I'll reiterate that I know nothing about the case, but I'm pretty damn sure Moussaoui didn't win. Being a high profile defendnat in a federal jail is one thing. 80 years in prison is quite another.

    Re: Defiant, Belligerant Moussaoui Sentenced to Li (none / 0) (#15)
    by caramel on Fri May 05, 2006 at 03:09:22 AM EST
    It is no doubt puzzling to read and watch the numerous self-congratulating comments about the outcome of the Moussaoui trial. It is amazing to consider that such a verdict can be considered a "success" when the Bush administration has failed to bring to justice the real perpetrators of 9/11, those who will probably never be brought to justice or to expose the truth the American people who truly deserve it. Even more incredible is the naivity of a whole nation who cannot see this reality for what it is. When a government uses its justice system to serve its own political agenda the people should not only worry but react strongly. Moussaoui did not get a fair trial, let's be clear on point. A trial that was not relocated away from the attacks to select a "fair" jury, a defense team that didn't communicate with its client and worked mostly against him rather than with him, a major 5th amendment violation which has set a dangerous precedent for future cases when defense witnesses vital to the case were kept away from the court, when a judge accepted a guilty plea from a man who made so many ludicrous statements without evidence to back his says and when a country is crying for vengeance. These ingredients give you to something called the American "Criminal Justice System", certainly a criminal system but not a faire one. Justice has not been served, America is not closer to the truth and a man will rot in jail for the rest of his life not for any crime - since he didn't commit any other than being hateful towards the USA - but merely for his intentions, his dilusions and his dreams. If America was truly awake, the people would realize how much the political propaganda plays a part in terrorists trials in their homeland, convictions which are falling apart on appeals one after the other and rightly so. If the taxpayers are prepared to pay through the nose to feed such propaganda and to accept that so many lives be destroyed for no valid reasons, then the country has never been further away from being a democracy than it is today. Justice is one of the most vital component of any society and when it is so badly misused and manipulated, it is a very worrying sign which I hope Americans will finally recognize for what it is.

    Defiant, Belligerant Moussaoui Sentenced to Life | 15 comments (15 topical)