home

Friday Wide Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Fri May 05, 2006 at 10:33:41 AM EST
Tags: (all tags)
Share This: Digg! StumbleUpon del.icio.us reddit reddit

I'm getting ready to head back to Denver (see post below)--will there be a Rove indictment today? Here's some space to talk about it - or anything else -- before I get back online.

I'll be sending out individual thank you emails this weekend to those who sent in contributions. They are much appreciated and as I noted below, you all sent enough to cover blog expenses for the next quarter -- including the cost of hosting and downloading court pleadings in the major cases.

< Heading Home and Thanks | In the Trenches >

  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


    • Display: Sort:
    Friday Wide Open Thread | 69 comments (69 topical)
    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#1)
    by kdog on Fri May 05, 2006 at 09:31:54 AM EST
    New Jersey is now making all high school student athletes submit to random drug testing. If a student refuses to forfeit their bodily fluids, they are automatically ineligible. Way to make kids feel like inmates New Jersey! PS...I predict a spike in "whizzinator" sales.

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#2)
    by roy on Fri May 05, 2006 at 09:44:17 AM EST
    Apologies if this is a tacky question, but if anybody has insight I'd appreciate it. What's an appropriate donation for a habitual reader/commenter to not be a cheap*ss? $5 per year? $10, $25, $50, $100?

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#3)
    by Slado on Fri May 05, 2006 at 09:48:03 AM EST
    Whatever you think is appropriate Roy. If TL was to charge you to blog what $$ would you be willing to pay? IMO

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#4)
    by squeaky on Fri May 05, 2006 at 09:50:22 AM EST
    Jeralyn- I love the "wide" open thread. Sounds like NYC was good for you. Come and visit more often. Glad you had a great time.

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#5)
    by Johnny on Fri May 05, 2006 at 10:03:11 AM EST
    Catfishin' started up here. Going out Monday and maybe Tuesday.

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri May 05, 2006 at 10:14:02 AM EST
    Any F1 fans?

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#7)
    by jondee on Fri May 05, 2006 at 10:18:33 AM EST
    Johnny - You catch those giant flatheads? Looks like a blast and a lot of good eating. I have to settle for 5 lb channels in the Genesee River gorge. Still a hell of alot of fun though.

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri May 05, 2006 at 10:18:55 AM EST
    Re the movie Hoot. Now that the federal government has become passionate concerned about terrorism, and has been expanding their definitions, my question is Wouldn't the actions of the kids in the movie Hoot fall under the federal definitions of terrorism? I haven't seen the movie, but don't the kids destroy or damage property, and do so for the purpose of advancing a particular political agenda or idea or influencing "public" policy? I could be wrong, but aren't these things included in the new definitions of "terrorism"?

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#9)
    by squeaky on Fri May 05, 2006 at 10:27:32 AM EST
    Here is this from TPM:
    MSNBC: President Bush to make 'personnel related announcement' at 1:45 p.m. ET Anyone wanna take a guess? I'm putting my money on a new appointee at extra-constitutional affairs.
    Must be that Rove is indicted and will be replaced by Osama.

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#10)
    by scribe on Fri May 05, 2006 at 10:33:47 AM EST
    Re: Rover's indictment doghouse. Firedoglake notes that Fitz is in D.C. today, but that his presence is because of a scheduled status conference in Scooter's case. The conference was requested by Scooter's people, presumably re discussing either potential 404(b) evidence, or CIPA procedures and the like. In other words, mundane evidentiary and procedural issues. FDL also notes (and reminds us) the G.J. meets every Wednesday and Friday, and not just for Fitz - it's there for all the federal prosecutors in D.C. I saw no mention anywhere about Fitz being in D.C. Weds. to meet with the G.J. or otherwise. Given the importance of getting it right (and nothing against his subordinates), I think Fitz would likely be personally presenting any case to a G.J. I know if I stood in his shoes, that's what I'd do. Plus, the Ryan case and post-trial investigation into what that jury did is brewing up into a midwestern thunderstorm. Apparently one of the jurors did their own legal research (on the law of bribery) during deliberations and shared it with the rest of the jurors. That plate on Fitz' table is getting refilled. So, IMHO Rover's not getting the indictment today. Unless TL has double-secret sources of information she's not telling us about... I stand by my previous predictions - Rover only gets indicted after the motions to quash press subpoenas in Libby are decided, i.e., sometime in June, and Deadeye gets his sometime in the August-October time frame.

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#11)
    by squeaky on Fri May 05, 2006 at 10:36:18 AM EST
    aw scribe, what a party pooper.

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#12)
    by scribe on Fri May 05, 2006 at 10:39:46 AM EST
    Squeaky- You'll get over it. If you got to open all your Christmas presents when Santa's Helpers (a/k/a Mom and Dad) got them from the store, rather than having to wait until the Big Day, it wouldn't be nearly as much fun, would it? Same here.

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#13)
    by squeaky on Fri May 05, 2006 at 10:46:55 AM EST
    Must be that Rove is indicted and will be replaced by Osama.
    Sorry about that, I just did a bit of research and found out that Osama is already on the payroll. Zarawki is free. A far better choice as he died last year. Money saved is money well spent.

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#14)
    by squeaky on Fri May 05, 2006 at 10:55:40 AM EST
    Scribe- I grew up Jewish and the hannuka presents were not worth opening period. A pencil, a rubber band, etc. So, I never learned santa's lessons. Life is more exciting without having to wait, even with all the dissapointments. So what if my weight is 430+ lbs....

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#15)
    by squeaky on Fri May 05, 2006 at 11:01:06 AM EST
    Porter Goss is out. Damn prostitutes...

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#16)
    by desertswine on Fri May 05, 2006 at 11:04:07 AM EST
    Porter Goss is out. Damn prostitutes...
    Good riddance to really stinking bad rubbish.

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#17)
    by squeaky on Fri May 05, 2006 at 11:10:09 AM EST
    More stink goes returns to the sewer. From War and Peace:
    Meantime, Bush isn't the only one rearranging his cabinet. Tony Blair apparently just fired one of Sec. of State Condoleezza Rice's closest European collaborators, Jack Straw. I am amazed, given how central he has been to US-UK strategizing on Iran. What's the back story to this?

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri May 05, 2006 at 11:16:16 AM EST
    Remember the wheelchair woman who was tasered?

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri May 05, 2006 at 11:24:24 AM EST
    "If I wanted it tomorrow I would have asked for it tomorrow" "Don't want it in a minute, want it now." Life is so so unfair.

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#20)
    by scribe on Fri May 05, 2006 at 11:25:26 AM EST
    Squeaky: I think the back story to Blair firing Straw and one other (whose name escapes me) is that (a) Blair got handed his head in internal Labor party meetings and had to blow up a couple of guys to sate the crowd howling for his head and (b) lurking out there are two royal princes who are infantry lieutenants and their grandmother who doubtless really wants at least one of them to survive a useless war to make it onto her throne someday. re: Goss. I'm really hoping Larry Flynt has been putting his million out on the street looking for (and getting) the photos of the poker-cigar-booze-hooker-congresscritter-defense contractor-lobbyist parties Goss has denied (and others have placed him) going to. You, know, the ones in the hospitality suites at Watergate. Where the FBI served subpoenas the other day. Just musing/speculating - I remember one of Abramoff's emails (I think it was posted on TPM) talking about golf and Cubans on the infamous DeLay-Scotland trip. One wonders whether these fine folks at the hospitality suites smoked domestic, or went the whole hog and smoked smuggled-in Cubans (thereby violating the Trading With The Enemy Act)? Ur-anti-communists violatin' that tenet of Repub vitrue, The Embargo - wouldn't that be sweet?

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri May 05, 2006 at 11:27:12 AM EST
    JRT. Your point?

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri May 05, 2006 at 11:51:06 AM EST
    Scribe. The other one was Clarke, the home secretary. He would have been out irrespective of the local elections. Dozens, if not hundreds of serious foriegn fellons have been released onto the street instead of being deported. Many reoffended, quite seriously. snafu, or in the vernacular, "A right bleeding cock up"

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#23)
    by squeaky on Fri May 05, 2006 at 12:19:26 PM EST
    Scribe-This is from a by Joe Murray, Atlanta Journal Constitution, May 20, 1994:
    As I was leaving, they offered me one of their cigars, a Dominican. I offered them one of mine, a Cuban. "Geez! Take our whole box," I was told. The agent added, "You know, of course, this is considered contraband. But you've done the right thing as a good citizen. You've turned it in to the proper government agency. Be assured that very shortly it will be destroyed by fire."
    When it comes to personal indulgences politics for the wingers seems to go out the window. My guess is that the Abramoff cigar smoking crowd would get the cubans, no problem. Here is good pic of Goss et al. TPM says that there are pics at the Watergate parties. Million buck pics.

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#24)
    by Bob In Pacifica on Fri May 05, 2006 at 12:52:57 PM EST
    Was one of those prostitutes named Jeff?

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#25)
    by scribe on Fri May 05, 2006 at 01:26:43 PM EST
    Squeaky: I knew it! Good catch! Bob: re Jeff the hooker. Don't be surprised if it turns out that way. Someone had linked recently (can't find it now) through to an article in the Washington Blade about closeted (or sort of) Republican congresscritters. The usual suspects, Dreier, etc. But, the one that jumped off the page was Duke Cunningham. From the article, it seems he had gone both ways since his fighter ace days. Top gun, indeed.

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri May 05, 2006 at 01:53:11 PM EST
    Oscar W.... Any F1 fans? Me... I'm a race fan in general. just got my tickets to the Indy 500. I race a Porsche 911 on weekends and just bought a new Z-06 Vette. (yes it likes lots of expensive premium gas so I'm sure I'll hear about that)

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#27)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri May 05, 2006 at 01:58:54 PM EST
    Et al.... Anyone got any comments about a proposed amedment in Cal. that is suppose to (in effect) prohibit the use of the phrase "mom & dad" so as not to offend gays?

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#28)
    by roy on Fri May 05, 2006 at 02:25:36 PM EST
    BB, You are mistaken. You've been reading alarmist writeups from "traditional-values organizations" rather than the text of the actual proposal. The amendment broadens existing rules to cover sexual orientation. I wouldn't expect the amendment to impact "mom & dad" any more than the existing rules have impacted portrayal of white American men by restricting how race, nationality, or sex are handled. Most of it simply bars stuff that "reflects adversely upon persons because of" various factors, including sexual orientation. If you want public schools to teach that homosexuality is immoral, argue that, don't hide behind misrepresentations. There's also a requirement that teaching materials "accurately portray ... the contributions of people who are lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender to the total development of California and the United States." I don't have a lot of faith in beurocrats' abilities, but "accurately portray" isn't a bad standard to have.

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri May 05, 2006 at 02:32:02 PM EST
    BB. Nice one, When it comes converting hydrocarbons into velocity you can only be a certain shade of green and PC becomes just two letters of the alpabet. A good mix of cars, a "corner" car and a "straight line flyer" from what I've seen about the vet. I ran a new 69 Road Runner (only 383) That used to get itself down the road, but wouldn't want to rally one. I raced land yachts internationaly for a good few years, top buzz. I hope Maclaren get there act together this weekend, I think they have to run a lot lghter fuel for quali, Monty being my man. What little we get of Nascar here (England) I must say I don't have a good understanding of it, especially when it comes to giving someone a shunt of the track. Used to go to the stocks in Canada,early seventies, but only three eigths of a mile oval.

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#30)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri May 05, 2006 at 02:34:30 PM EST
    BB, which tracks do you race on? I'm partial to Willow Springs and Laguna Seca out here in CA myself...

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#31)
    by scribe on Fri May 05, 2006 at 02:57:22 PM EST
    Bob in Pacifica: Following up on my earlier re Jeff the hooker showing up, I found the links: Pam's House Blend, and she linked to the Washington Blade article. Note that, as far as I can tell, most of the press and blogosphere reports have been rather circumspect about the alleged hookers' gender, i.e., leaving it out entirely. Maybe these folks know something....

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#32)
    by squeaky on Fri May 05, 2006 at 03:23:57 PM EST
    scribe- oops! the bit about the photos taken at the Watergate parties was from Ken Silverstein at Harper's blog not TPM
    As to the festivities themselves, I hear that party nights began early with poker games (see Clarification, below) and degenerated into what the source described as a "frat party" scene--real bacchanals. Apparently photographs were taken, and investigators are anxiously procuring copies. My heart beats faster in fevered anticipation.
    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#33)
    by BigTex on Fri May 05, 2006 at 03:57:54 PM EST
    KDog - is it too soon to call the NLCS a Mets-Astros show down?

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#34)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri May 05, 2006 at 04:58:37 PM EST
    Another heart warming example of the religion of peace. It makes me so proud of my country, so proud in fact I think I shall join up. Will it ever stop?

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#35)
    by john horse on Fri May 05, 2006 at 05:43:56 PM EST
    I would like to urge TL to provide some coverage of the death of Martin Lee Anderson in Florida. This is turning into a major scandal in the state that includes an apparent coverup by the medical examiner who claimed that Anderson died from natural causes, specifically sickle cell anemia. It has already rsulted in the resignation of the head of the Florida Department of Law Enforcement. The latest news is that Anderson died from suffocation. The guards kept him from breathing through his mouth and forced ammonia fumes up his nose which caused "spasm of the vocal cords resulting in internal blockage of the upper airway."

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#36)
    by Johnny on Fri May 05, 2006 at 07:35:56 PM EST
    Jondee: I usually fish for channels, but sometimes chase the flatheads. We catch them up to 50 pounds here (flatheads). The channels run about 2-10 pounds with an outside shot at a 20.

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#37)
    by jondee on Fri May 05, 2006 at 07:36:07 PM EST
    Looks like the C.I.A finally worked out the bugs with their Mexico City cameras. I know they'd had particular trouble with the one outside the Cuban Embassy malfunctioning at inopportune moments that year. And Felix couldnt look happier. No more having to worry about being splintered in a thousand pieces and scattered to the winds I guess.

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#38)
    by jondee on Fri May 05, 2006 at 07:45:26 PM EST
    Johnny - Have fun. "A catfish has a silly little grin, but you never know where that catfish has been." Danny O'Keefe

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#39)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat May 06, 2006 at 07:05:33 AM EST
    Oscar - Yes, the islamic faith has unacceptable attitudes towards gays. And they are just as bad toward rape victims. And when it comes to an educated moslem female giving speeches... In the first instance we can hope that the moderates will gain control in Iraq and stop such terrible actions. In the case of the hanging of the 16 year rape victim in Iran, that will require regime change, and we know that's a no-no. I say regime change because just exposing them to western culture doesn't work as the many "honor killings" of female family memebers in Europe demonstrate. In the second instance this is the University of Memphis, a bible belt state university more noted for a love of basketball than politics, so you can see how far the attitude of OBL that Moslems can't be called to task has come.

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#40)
    by squeaky on Sat May 06, 2006 at 08:13:14 AM EST
    PPJ wants to 'save' the world.
    In the case of the hanging of the 16 year rape victim in Iran, that will require regime change, and we know that's a no-no. I say regime change because just exposing them to western culture doesn't work as the many "honor killings" of female family memebers in Europe demonstrate.
    Regime change. Check out these pics of Iraq before and after "regime" change. Ha, ha, ha....Regime change my a$$

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#41)
    by Edger on Sat May 06, 2006 at 08:27:54 AM EST
    Squeaky, Ummm... that's just the social liberal values of freedom and democracy pre-emptively delivered to Iraq... No? ^^ OO

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#42)
    by squeaky on Sat May 06, 2006 at 08:32:52 AM EST
    Ah sweet, sweet, liberation. PPJ has a dream...turned nightmare. Oh well, on to the next.

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#43)
    by Edger on Sat May 06, 2006 at 10:03:02 AM EST
    The American Tragedy: The Quagmire of War, Rhetoric of Oil, and the Conundrum of Hegemony (.pdf) --Cyrus Bina, University of Minnesota-Morris
    "A foreign policy that is both immoral and unsuccessful is not simply stupid, it is increasingly dangerous to those who practice or favor it. That is the predicament that the United States now confronts."
    --Gabriel Kolko, Another Century of War? The invasion of Iraq--and subsequent occupation of the country since March 2003--is a déjà vu in the context of the repeated attempts by the United Sates at turning back the clock of history in order to save her global hegemony. ... The world is now grappling with the loss of American hegemony and the debilitating after effects of U.S. reckless reactions. The epochal train has already departed, and the passenger who is running desperately in the opposite direction through the rear cars is running out of time.
    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#44)
    by squeaky on Sat May 06, 2006 at 10:03:31 AM EST
    So much for the WOT which was renamed the Long War. Now it is just WWIII.
    US President George W. Bush has said the September 11 revolt of passengers against their hijackers on board Flight 93 had struck the first blow of "World War III".
    I guess the chimp is just planting some seeds here to ease the impending shock. link via Think Progress

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#45)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat May 06, 2006 at 11:12:21 AM EST
    PPJ. Thank you for the links. I would like to respond to your post, however at this moment I am unable to do so. A rage burns within me that makes coherent thought nigh impossible. And this after reading only the first two pages of the first article you linked to. I shall attempt a reply at a more suitable time. I shall if I may leave this link to a much viewed clip of Wafu Sultan. 'tis rare cold day in hell that I find myself in accord with you. Oscar.

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#46)
    by squeaky on Sat May 06, 2006 at 11:37:22 AM EST
    OW-Take care when bigots link an entire religion with extremist views. That kind of propaganda (supported by the Vatican) led to much bloodshed and misery in the thirties. Pat Robertson and Jamed Dobson would support these extremist religious views. Odd that ppj loves them but not muslims. His knowledge about Muslims comes not from from any direct contact but from Powerine, Hitchens, Pipes and other racist bigots. Get the picture? They are bedwetters, you needent join their ranks.

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#47)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat May 06, 2006 at 11:51:31 AM EST
    Madam. I shall be brief for I might say something we shall both regret. I need not you to tell me the way of the world. Do not dare to even consider lecturing me on religion. ALL religions I P**s on. My feelings towards people of religion are the same as my feelings to caged birds. I have no wish to be in the same room with them. I shall stop now for I fear greatly I shall give you a piece of my mind.

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#48)
    by squeaky on Sat May 06, 2006 at 11:57:08 AM EST
    Let it rip OW sounds like you got a lot o' baggage on your chest.

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#49)
    by squeaky on Sat May 06, 2006 at 12:40:31 PM EST
    From politiacal hack Goss to Constitutional hack Gen. Michael Hayden. C & L has a clip where Hayden claims that he of all people know what the fourth amendment says, the NSA knows all about it. Olbermann, not wanting to doubt the good general opines that "maybe thay have another constitution over there at the NSA."

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#50)
    by jondee on Sat May 06, 2006 at 12:44:20 PM EST
    ppj has an odd cognitive impairment that enables him to only acknowledge brutaltity and small-mindedness when its embodied by two subsets of humanity: the Left and Muslims. All the other seeming victims - like the millions of Indians whose misfortune it was to "come in contact with a more advanced civilisation" - are just collateral damage in the wake of "the greatest (by jingo, by gosh), most tolerant society in history".

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#51)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat May 06, 2006 at 08:15:32 PM EST
    Jondee writes:
    like the millions of Indians whose misfortune it was to "come in contact with a more advanced civilisation" -
    Why do you bring up the problems between the British and the Indians? If you are writing of Native Americans, yes it was unfortunate for them, that is a fact. It is also a fact that what you refer to happened well over a hundred years ago, I had nothing to do with any of it and refuse to accept blame for something I didn't do. That, Jondee, is your job. And may I say you do it well. Squeaky - Why do you feel it necessary to make a claim about me that you have absoluely no proof of? Reasonable people do not do such things. I quote:
    His knowledge about Muslims comes not from from any direct contact but from Powerine, Hitchens, Pipes and other racist bigots.
    Ah, the old race card is played again. Again, you have absolutely no knowledge, yet you opine away, smearing me for no reason beyond a desire to do so. Since you bring the subject up: How many Moslems have you worked with? How many Moslems have you done business with? How many Moslems do you have as friends? How much time have you lived outside the US? How many different geographical locations have you lived in the US? i.e. Southeast, Northwest, Midwest, etc. Here. I will go first on part of it. I have lived in the SE, NE, DC area, Midwest, SW, Mountains West, Far West and Northwest. I have spent a substantial amount of time in Canada, England, Scotland, Beligum, Germany, Italy, Soviet Union and Israel. The overseas locations do not include military duty. The US portion includes civilian and military. Come now Squeaky, I have shown you a bit of mine. Turn about is fair play. Show me yours, since you are such an expert on cultures and people. Oscar - Organized anything is apt to become a conduit for those seeking power. Religion and politics are but two examples. Corporations are a third. Christian religion as a whole has been a vessel for good, but there have been many instances, especially in the early church, where great evil was done. I recommend "A World Lit Only By Fire," for snapshot of what happened between the fall of Rome and the Renaissance. The Left likes to blame Robertson and Dobson, and hold them up as moral equivalents to the more radical Moslem Imams, but that is ridiculous. As bad as R & D may be, they don't come close to what the various Moslem religios leaders have said. Perhaps you missed this in your Sunday Times.
    A LEADING imam in the mosque where the July 7 bombers worshipped has hailed their terrorist attack on London as a "good" act in a secretly taped conversation with an undercover reporter. Hamid Ali, spiritual leader of the mosque in West Yorkshire, said. He also praised the bombers as the "children" of Abdullah al-Faisal, a firebrand Muslim cleric, who was convicted of inciting murder and racial hatred in 2003. Al-Faisal, who has branded non-Muslims as "cockroaches" ripe for extermination, is serving a seven-year prison sentence but is eligible for early release next week.
    So the west isn't perfect, far from it. But it certainly is ahead of the ME. Squeaky - I would hazard a guess that Olbermann doesn't want to acknowledge that "against unreasonable" is in the Fourth.

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#52)
    by jondee on Sat May 06, 2006 at 08:44:48 PM EST
    ppj - I call them Indians because thats the way all the ones I've known - and I've known a fair amount- have refered to themselves.

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#53)
    by jondee on Sat May 06, 2006 at 09:09:43 PM EST
    ppj - Dont you think we have an obligation to speak out against brutality and dishonesty WHEREVER we see it? After all, as Blake said: " Good must be done in minute particulars. The General Good is the plea of the scoundral and the hypocrite."

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#54)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat May 06, 2006 at 09:55:42 PM EST
    Jondee - Your argument would carry some force if you ever found anything to complain about besides the sins of America. Especially very old sins. Re Indians calling Indians, Indians. How far do you want to take that arguement?

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#55)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun May 07, 2006 at 01:55:05 AM EST
    PPJ. And yet you too choose to lecture on your particular brand of man made superstition.
    Christian religion as a whole has been a vessel for good
    Balderdash! The christian religion does today as it as ever done. Using the same tools of fear, ignorance, misinformation and the promise of yet another intangible, this state of bliss you call heaven to spread misery and suffering.
    Christian religion as a whole has been a vessel for good
    Tell it to the thousands, nae millions of people that your oh so christian wonderful caring religion would condemn to poverty and misery by having to bring unwanted children into an already over populated world. Tell it to the girls and women of South Dakota, and all the other states of your all so backward country. Tell it to the child whose mother one day has to explain that his/her father is a rapist or its grandfather is also its father, and rapist to boot. So backward because of these wonderful christian folk, so overflowing with the milk of human kindness. That wonderful kindness that is so conditional that it only flows if people embrace their own narrow perception of this fairy tale you call christianity.
    The Left likes to blame Robertson and Dobson,
    You presume to quote the names of these two despicable bunco merchants, so full of cant and hypocrisy, who have preyed upon the unintelligent and the vulnerable to such extent that their wealth knows no bounds. Do not dare for shame mention the name of these creatures when addressing me.
    Christian religion as a whole has been a vessel for good
    Tell it to the millions of those suffering and dieing of hiv/aids in Sub-Saharan Africa. Those dying for want of freely available condoms. Those condoms denied them by ridiculous hypocritical men dressed finery as they go about their business of serial molestation. Do you dare say, "yes but they are papist's" Not your particular brand of ignorance and fantasy? Christian religion as a whole has been a vessel for good
    Tell it to god's present day representative on earth. George Walker Bush. Whose own special brand of reality would deny the suffering of that continent humanitarian aid if the dogma of "Abstinence only" is not preached by the recipients of that aid.
    Christian religion as a whole has been a vessel for good
    Do not dare to even consider preaching your own ridiculous and dangerous brand of superstition to me Sir.

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#56)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun May 07, 2006 at 01:57:03 AM EST
    And a pox on bloody technology.

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#57)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun May 07, 2006 at 04:01:37 AM EST
    And to show that it is not only Iran that has the monopoly on cruelty to women, this link to BBC radio 4 discusses the plight and murder, often for "sport" of "worthles women" in the Catholic country of Guatemala. I have watched the recent documentry, but in honesty I have not listened to radio discussion. Should the programme air in the US it should be viewed, although the viewing is more than a little disturbing.

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#58)
    by Edger on Sun May 07, 2006 at 06:31:50 AM EST
    Texas Silent Witness Project
    In Texa[ghanistan], more than 2 abusive men kill their female partners each week. The Texas Council on Family Violence created its own exhibit, and on April 1, 1997, debuted 160 Silent Witnesses at the State Capitol in Austin with a march, a memorial, and a three-day exhibit in the Capitol building. Each Texas Silent Witness bears the name and story of a Texas woman killed as a result of family violence: Texas Women killed in 2004 (pdf) Texas Women killed in 2003 (pdf) Texas Women killed in 2002 (pdf) Texas Women killed in 2001 (pdf) Texas Women killed in 2000 (pdf) Texas Women killed in 1999 (pdf) Texas Women killed in 1998 (pdf)


    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#59)
    by squeaky on Sun May 07, 2006 at 08:45:24 AM EST
    OK ppj let me put it another way. On what basis do you make your claims regarding the whole of muslims? I, unlike you, have no interest in making such grand statements about a group of people who practice Islam. That is called stereotyping, I do know several muslims and have done business (stores and taxi rides) with individuals who are Islamic. Based on my experience I would not attempt to say nasty things, or anything about moslems character as a whole. Your generalizations about Moslems in this thread and others reveals serious bigotry and is reprehensible. No one who knows moslems personally could talk like this. Them, they, those people, etc. all add up to "the other." Boogeymen for bedwetters.

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#60)
    by jondee on Sun May 07, 2006 at 04:45:47 PM EST
    I've noticed recently that more and more the wingnuts (in almost perfect bacterial colony synch as usual), are directing their vitriol at Muslims in general instead of the "radical Muslims" and "Islamofascists" that they were previously preoccupied with. Probobly this is because its finally dawned on The New Empire true believers that they're not going to get their ticker tape parade and statue in the heart of Bagdad from ANYBODY over there and that means that those recalcitrant, unappreciative people are ALL just bad. This is the kind of brutish, stupid thinking thats comes from being in a state of chronic denial and now, with Chimpys credibility in the toilet, borderline desperation.

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#61)
    by Edger on Sun May 07, 2006 at 04:54:05 PM EST
    Jondee, I remember somebody once saying "Yer either with us or agin' us", more than once...

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#62)
    by BigTex on Sun May 07, 2006 at 05:08:58 PM EST
    Since you want to go down this road Oscar
    The christian religion does today as it as ever done. Using the same tools of fear, ignorance, misinformation and the promise of yet another intangible, this state of bliss you call heaven to spread misery and suffering.
    Why then is the Catholic church organizing in support of the illegal immigrants under the guise of morality? That's not spreading misery, that's an (albeit wrongheaded) attempt to use the Chruches teaching power to spread wealth and comfort not poverty.
    Tell it to the thousands, nae millions of people that your oh so christian wonderful caring religion would condemn to poverty and misery by having to bring unwanted children into an already over populated world.
    The church also runs pregnancy centers, gives away prenatal care and adoption support. The church also teaches abstanence until marriage, which is a form of disclipline. Disclipline will go a long way to ending the overpopulation crisis. China has been brutaly effective, emphasis on both words. Through dislipline they have reduced their growth rate to 1% per year.
    Tell it to the child whose mother one day has to explain that his/her father is a rapist or its grandfather is also its father, and rapist to boot.
    You are talking about less than 1% of all abortions. This is a straw man.
    That wonderful kindness that is so conditional that it only flows if people embrace their own narrow perception of this fairy tale you call christianity.
    Perhaps some, but the Catholic Church will help all those who come in need. Race, gender, creed don't matter at Catholic soup kitchens. They don't matter at the Church run homeless shelters. They don't matter at the pregnancy support centers. What does matter is not bringing in weapons, drugs, etc.
    Tell it to the millions of those suffering and dieing of hiv/aids in Sub-Saharan Africa. Those dying for want of freely available condoms.
    See the disclpline comments above.
    Those condoms denied them by ridiculous hypocritical men dressed finery as they go about their business of serial molestation.
    You know better, that not only was it an extreme minority of the Priest population commining molestation, but that the Church is cracking down on it, to the point of chasing ghosts. You know better and are better than that comment.

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#63)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon May 08, 2006 at 06:55:18 AM EST
    Tex. I stand by every word I wrote. What I wrote was in direct response to comments by two people who would bang the religious drum for their own reasons. Religion belongs in the heart, in the home, or in a place of worship. It does not belong on the sleeves of people that would use it as a political tool, nor to spread the word of the one true way; their way. I abhor all religions,with a passion you can have no concept of, in part for many reasons, but a few that I mentioned. But not least the sanctimony of those that would insult me by asking me to disregard that which sets above the beasts of the field, the ability of rational thought. In short to believe the irrational. Three things set fire and rage in my breast. They burn with a ferocity that can not be extinguished. As they do this moment they destroy the least bit of peace that abides within me. I am in rage now, my day ruined. The immorality of this war and the deaths of tens of thousands of innocents, brought about war criminals, that if there is one iota of justice in this world, will one day find themselves on trial for genocide and crimes against humanity. The total inhumanity and abject cruelty practised by the animals, and here I do disservice to animals real, for few kill without reason, that are featured in that terrible testimony that PPJ linked to. And in the grand scheme of things it be almost trivial. Those that would ask me to believe the unbelievable for agendas that are at best, selfish, at worst ignoble. Out of respect I write you this response. Unless you feel passionatly that you must co-respond, I would otherwise ask you not to, for you shall receive no reply. It is my earnest wish that I maintain some degree of calm in my life and that my feelings on this subject do not infringe on the maintainence good manners.

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#64)
    by Edger on Mon May 08, 2006 at 07:09:09 AM EST
    Oscar, you are not alone. Nor are you the only one who would see the catholic churh wiped from the face of the earth as a virulent infectious disease. Evolution, Culture and Truth

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#65)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon May 08, 2006 at 07:29:16 AM EST
    Edger. Thanks for the link, if I may I will view the vid at liesure. And I wouldn't neccessary confine it to the one. Do you know who I find the least offensive of the bunch? The Jews, the only ones not shoving it in yer face or knocking on the goddamn door trying to sell you their brand. (OK the reasons are obvious) but you get my drift.

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#66)
    by Edger on Mon May 08, 2006 at 07:39:48 AM EST
    Oscar, Yep. I know what you mean. My grandmother was one. Jewish, I mean. If anyone gave her any crap it might have been the last time they were able to speak clearly. It's hard to talk with broken teeth and lips swollen and bloody. The video is about 1/2 hour or so, slow moving but has such depth it needs to be. Well worth watching. I also suggest googling Dennett. Anything he writes is well worth reading. Have a good day...

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#67)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon May 08, 2006 at 07:45:19 AM EST
    Edger. If you should desire a exchange off blog anytime, this address is already in the public domain. (more spam groan) northernpoet@btinternet.com

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#68)
    by Edger on Mon May 08, 2006 at 07:54:37 AM EST
    Oscar, check your inbox.

    Re: Friday Wide Open Thread (none / 0) (#69)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon May 08, 2006 at 08:04:02 AM EST
    OK. Looks like somebody else is getting a letter. Wonder what it says?

    Friday Wide Open Thread | 69 comments (69 topical)