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Tuesday Open Thread

I don't know what it is about Tuesdays that make me unavailable to blog. It's usually work, but why Tuesdays? It needn't matter to you, as I put up the open thread with no subject limitations. So, go for it, whats' on your mind?

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    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#1)
    by teacherken on Tue May 23, 2006 at 04:30:59 AM EST
    May 23 - I was born this day in 1946. I think that makes this my 60th birthday. Is that something worthy to be on my mind? My wife thinks so, and I have not figured out what she has planned for this evening.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue May 23, 2006 at 05:02:11 AM EST
    Regarding the unfolding corruption case against Jefferson, from CNN, we have: "Both Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist and House Speaker Dennis Hastert said they were "very concerned" about the search, which was conducted under a warrant issued by a federal judge. Jefferson told reporters Monday, "I believe that it's completely inappropriate to use the police of the federal government to come into the office." Great, we've finally found something Republicans and Democrats agree on: They are above the law. It is not inappropriate to use the federal police force to investigate federal crimes, regardless of who the accused is. That Jefferson fails to understand this, and that Hastert and Frist appear to agree with him, makes clear that none of them is suited for the position they hold.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#3)
    by Jlvngstn on Tue May 23, 2006 at 05:44:01 AM EST
    Funny, they can monitor phone records, have secret prisons, pass the Patriot Act, but when it hits their "house" they are suddenly concerned about privacy. What happened to "if you have nothing to hide, you should not be worried about the government?"
    May 23 (Bloomberg) -- House and Senate leaders challenged the constitutionality of an FBI raid on a lawmaker's office, saying it broke a 219-year precedent and raised concerns about the separation of power between the administration and Congress. ``The actions of the Justice Department in seeking and executing this warrant raise important constitutional issues,'' House Speaker Dennis Hastert, an Illinois Republican, said in a statement last night. ``I expect to seek a means to restore the delicate balance of power among the branches of government that the founders intended.''
    "It would seem their hypocrisy knows no bounds"

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#4)
    by profmarcus on Tue May 23, 2006 at 05:57:32 AM EST
    the power of prayer...
    "We have to pray for your brother. He's in real trouble," [Supreme Court justice Clarence] Thomas told a wide-eyed Koch [the President's sister, Doro Bush Koch], whose older brother is, indeed, suffering from near-catastrophic public-opinion ratings.
    i've been praying for bush for nearly a year, once i realized that maintaining an intense level of hate and disgust does no good for either him or me... i doubt, however, if the aim of my prayer is quite that which clarence has in mind... http://takeitpersonally.blogspot.com/

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue May 23, 2006 at 06:08:34 AM EST
    Happy Birthday, teacherken.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue May 23, 2006 at 06:18:26 AM EST
    HAPPY BIRTHDAY, teacherken-- I hope it's a wonderful 60th birthday. My birthday is in two days, so we're sort of kin. (I'll be 47 . . . and preparing to be a new [adoptive] mother at this tender age!) One modest birthday wish: that drivers use their turn signals. I spoke to Congressman John Dingell's aide the other day (Dingell turns 80 in July, has served for 50 years), who said the dynamic congressman thinks it'll take 30 years to undo the damage of these 5+ years of Bush. Now that's not a hopeful sentiment to pass along this fine morning. But it's very heartening to see that the awful mood of fear and intolerance is finally beginning to lift, thanks to brave, hardworking people (like JM and Stephen Colbert and Jean Rohe and John Conyers and many others). Onward, with hope!

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#7)
    by cpinva on Tue May 23, 2006 at 07:35:38 AM EST
    i'm kind of surprised there's been no comment regarding the most recent development in the natalie holloway case, in aruba. it appears that netherlands' police made an arrest yesterday, but a judge just as quickly ordered the individual released, due to a lack of evidence. what i found interesting was what they arrested him for: "murder, kidnapping and abuse". these are great charges, assuming you have evidence that an actual crime has taken place, which no one has to this point. they must be taking lessons from the durham, nc police and prosecutor. "crime, we don't need no stinking crime!"

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue May 23, 2006 at 07:48:10 AM EST
    Waterlilly, I became one of those at 46, the smartest thing I ever did. Mine is seven now and the light of our lives. I wish you all the best. Warning: Menopause and toddlers are not always a happy combination, just so you know. Forewarned is forearmed, as my dear mother used to say.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#9)
    by Edger on Tue May 23, 2006 at 07:53:29 AM EST
    it's very heartening to see that the awful mood of fear and intolerance is finally beginning to lift, thanks to brave, hardworking people
    Very nicely put, Waterlilly!

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#10)
    by squeaky on Tue May 23, 2006 at 07:53:58 AM EST
    Two top CIA officials will bolster prosecutors' charge that Vice President Cheney's chief aide lied to them, court papers show. .....documents allege Libby asked top CIA official Robert Grenier on June 11 why the agency sent Wilson to Niger to see if Iraq tried to buy uranium. Grenier replied that Plame was an agent and "believed responsible" for arranging her husband's trip. The other official was Craig Schmall, a CIA briefer whom Libby complained to about the Wilson trip on June 14, court files allege.
    The WHIG story that Wilson's wife sent him on a boondogle/junket spread through the CIA? ....and Cheney?
    Grenier, the CIA's station chief in Islamabad, .....then joined the CIA's Iraq Issue Group, hatching operational plans for invading Iraq. "Bob had to go to lots of White House meetings in the runup to the war," said one colleague.
    Oh, that explains it. link via atrios

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue May 23, 2006 at 08:55:54 AM EST
    Happy Birthday teacherken! (By the way, you haven't happened to speak with Joe Wilson again in the last couple of weeks, have you?)

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#12)
    by Che's Lounge on Tue May 23, 2006 at 10:40:09 AM EST
    Teacherken, Happy Birthday. 60 is the new 40. Rock on. If you are indeed a teacher, thanks.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#13)
    by squeaky on Tue May 23, 2006 at 11:07:54 AM EST
    Via Mickey Kaus, watch Jackie Shire catch Judith Miller hyping the WMD threat from Libya. I think she just can't help herself
    TPM Who would have ever thought Judy would exaggerate nuclear WMD claims? Libya had 4000 P2 centrifuges? Well actually the casings and 220 rotors. Almost doesn't count Judy. Haven't you learned? This is further proof that she is back riding on the retooled WHIG hobby horse. Hyping Libya nuclear capabilities then praising them for cooperating while casually mentioning the Iranian threat. Her fearmongering is more subtle now, she is inviting her pavlovian readers to jump to their own mouth watering conclusions about Iran's imminent danger to the US. Or is she adding a new sequel and reprinting her hot 2001 book Germs ? Amazon has 415 new and used copies of for as little as $.01 each. Buy now before there is a run on the remaining inventory. Or if you are a savy investor buy all 415 you are sure to get some return, even if it is for home heating purposes.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue May 23, 2006 at 11:21:09 AM EST
    I have an idea about putting those calls between US persons and foreigners to good use. Since the Leader has little or no qualms about releasing "classified" data to help destroy a political opponent, how about we comb through those conversations and focus on all the conversations involving the following: all journalists not employed by Fox; the highly unpatriotic Russ Feingold, John Murtha and all other Dum members of Congress or Senate; several irritating Republican members of Congress such as Ron Paul; all persons running for office similar to the above listed. Then, lets find out everything we can about their current or past sex lives. Affairs, sex before marriage, hetero sex, homo sex (how immoral), certain sexual practices if married (very bad and still "illegal" in some states). . . In fact, if nothing seems to be coming up in conversations, lets arrange for an old girlfriend (or boyfriend) of such, to give them a call from France, where, as we all know, there is a great terrorist haven. . . Then, we just let these conversations, somehow, be "leaked" or stolen. What d'ya say? How that for thinking, turdblossom?

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#15)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue May 23, 2006 at 11:50:26 AM EST
    Squeaky - From youe quote:
    Grenier replied that Plame was an agent and "believed responsible" for arranging her husband's trip.
    Wait! It has been repeatedly claimded that Mrs. Wilson had nothing to do with sending Mr. Wilson to Niger... Does this mean that she did? And if so, what were her motives? And why did CIA management allow this?

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#16)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue May 23, 2006 at 11:53:08 AM EST
    Sailor - Here is a forum that is open. Now, tell us what technical points are incorrect in my comment, and provide a link to the "ghz" statement. Or ignore this and show all of us that you are incorrect.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#17)
    by squeaky on Tue May 23, 2006 at 12:02:18 PM EST
    PPJ- hard to tell if you are joking or not. Grenier was a member of WHIG the propaganda unit set up to win public support for invading Iraq.
    Grenier replied that Plame was an agent and "believed responsible" for arranging her husband's trip.
    The question is whose bright idea was this bit of disinformation, Cheney or Rove? Bolton is also a contender. Obviously you did not read the article, as usual.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#19)
    by squeaky on Tue May 23, 2006 at 12:58:12 PM EST
    bumbaclatt-Do you think Ash was trying to somehow obscure the original article or are you just criticizing his style?
    after even he began to doubt some of the original story.
    I did not get that this was true. My understanding is that he still backs the story 100%. Leopold and Miller are like chalk and cheese as far as I can tell. You can't possibly believe that Leopold is a neocon operative.
    if they had the sand to just admit it, in timely fashion, and carry on.
    Do you think that Leopold or Ash believe that the story is wrong and do not have the guts to admit it? Is that a feeling of yours or do you have some evidence that they know that they were wrong. Perhaps I misread Ash or some other story from TO. The level of attack on Leopold by left leaning sights which you seem to align with, can only be explained by guessing that he is not at all gracious when he gets criticized, even when it is true. He must have of told many with an ego at least as big as his own to f*ck off. He is obviously not well liked.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue May 23, 2006 at 12:58:55 PM EST
    ppj, the Senate report said that it was unknown who exactly selected Wilson for the task, but Wilson says that his wife wasn't present during his first briefing with the CIA folks after she introduced him to them, and there's been nothing to contradict his account, AFAIK. SSDD, some people say. "We extract, you decide."

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#21)
    by Patrick on Tue May 23, 2006 at 01:22:49 PM EST
    Speaking of Leopold, has there been an indictment of Rove yet? Has Leopold outed his sources? No on both counts I figure. So for those who missed the thread on the contest, my Price is Right strategy is working...

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#22)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue May 23, 2006 at 02:47:35 PM EST
    Dark Avenger - You quote the Senate Intellegence Committee as a believeable source. Do you also believe this?
    Mayaki said, however, that in June 1999,( ) businessman, approached him and insisted that Mayaki meet with an Iraqi delegation to discuss "expanding commercial relations" between Niger and Iraq. The intelligence report said that Mayaki interpreted "expanding commercial relations" to mean that the delegation wanted to discuss uranium yellowcake sales. The intelligence report also said that "although the meeting took place, Mayaki let the matter drop due to the UN sanctions on Iraq."
    That certainly proves that Bush's comment in the 03 SOTU is accurate.
    The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.
    The question then becomes, what did Mr. Wilson say, and why did he say it? Let us begin by reading his infamous NYT article.
    I was told that it referred to a memorandum of agreement that documented the sale of uranium yellowcake -- a form of lightly processed ore -- by Niger to Iraq in the late 1990's. The agency officials asked if I would travel to Niger to check out the story so they could provide a response to the vice president's office.
    Read the above carefully. He was asked to look for an agreement that a sale had occurred. "A sale" is a definite statement of fact. Remember that. So, what did he find, and what did he say?
    It did not take long to conclude that it was highly doubtful that any such transaction had ever taken place.
    No sale was made. Of course that is not what Bush said. So, why did Mr. Wilson say:
    In September 2002, however, Niger re-emerged. The British government published a "white paper" asserting that Saddam Hussein and his unconventional arms posed an immediate danger. As evidence, the report cited Iraq's attempts to purchase uranium from an African country. Then, in January, President Bush, citing the British dossier, repeated the charges about Iraqi efforts to buy uranium from Africa.
    He continues:
    I was asked to help formulate the answer. I did so, and I have every confidence that the answer I provided was circulated to the appropriate officials within our government.
    So now, let's review. He was asked if Iraq had purchased. He determined that there was no sale. They had not purchased.
    In short, there's simply too much oversight over too small an industry for a sale to have transpired.
    The British said there was an attempt to purchase. The information in the Senate report re Mayaki confirms that there was an attempt to purchase. Bush noted the British report that there was an attempt. He did not say "purchase." Mr. Wilson was not asked to confirm an attempt, and in fact he does not comment on any "attempt" in the NYT article. So why does he act as if he did, and that his research proves they did not? Why did he write?
    The question now is how that answer was or was not used by our political leadership.
    His answer was specific. No sale. It had nothing to do with "attempt to purchase." Mayaki's does say "attempt to purchase" and Mayaki's information is probably part of the background Cheney was using when he said:
    (Cheney's)...March "Meet the Press" appearance, Mr. Cheney said that Saddam Hussein was "trying once again to produce nuclear weapons.")
    In addition the Kay Report makes it clear that Saddam was trying to get back into the WMD business. But the question remains as to why Mr. Wilson acts as if his non-answer to a non-question is someway important. I think he states the answer.
    Based on my experience with the administration in the months leading up to the war, I have little choice but to conclude that some of the intelligence related to Iraq's nuclear weapons program was twisted to exaggerate the Iraqi threat.
    And he did so by shifting the debate to something Bush never said. And ignoring the facts on what was said.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#23)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue May 23, 2006 at 03:25:39 PM EST
    PPJ, in your haste to reply, you've made several glaring errors of inconsistancy and logic. The British haven't, AFAIK, revealed their source and materials for their claim, so to assert that it backs up the former ministers' "feelings" about his contact with the Iraqi official is absurd.
    In his 2003 State of the Union address, Bush cited a claim by British intelligence that Iraq sought uranium from Niger, saying "The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa." This is a claim the British government still maintains despite the forgery of some of the public documents released by the U.S. and British governments.
    If that was confirmation of the contact in your excerpt, that's news to a lot of folks, lemme tell you.. Also, how do you explain this:
    Wilson was criticized by the Senate Select Committee on PreWar Intelligence alleging, wrongly, that he claimed his trip to Niger proved that Iraq was not seeking uranium from Niger. A former Minister of Niger told Wilson, that he, during an OAU minister meeting in Algiers in 1999, had an informal meeting with an official from Iraq, who wanted to talk about "trade" between the two countries. But their talk never came to any clear topic. The Minister let all matters drop because of UN sanctions against Iraq. And he told Wilson he didn't know if the official wanted to talk about uranium. (Pages 39-44). (See also Joe Wilson's book The Politics of Truth, page 28.)
    and
    Wilson's central claim was that several reports and investigations were done on Niger, among them his own on a journey in 2002, and all found the claims from President George Bush about a contact between Iraq and Niger to be unsubstantiated. He claimed the information given by the American government before the Iraq war was based on deceptions and false information.

    In the press release, CIA Director George Tenet said it should "never" have permitted the "16 words" relating to alleged Iraqi uranium purchases to be used in the State of the Union address, and called it a "mistake" that the CIA allowed such a reference in a speech Bush used to take the United States to war.

    Link The rest is left to the student as an exercise........

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#24)
    by squeaky on Tue May 23, 2006 at 04:30:23 PM EST
    Dark Avenger- Amazing that ppj is still trying to get meat off that desiccated bone. Hitchens' who has lost all rational ability and judgment because of late stage alcoholism at least has that as an excuse.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#25)
    by Che's Lounge on Tue May 23, 2006 at 05:19:50 PM EST
    Jim, So far behind the curve that we've almost lost sight of you. We started a pre emptive war based on an "interpretation" by Miyaki? They dismissed Wilson in favor of Miyaki's "interpretation"? This is what Bush used to lead us to this mess? You'll have to do better than that. In September 2002, however, Niger re-emerged. The British government published a "white paper" asserting that Saddam Hussein and his unconventional arms posed an immediate danger. The Downing St. minutes have rendered this arguement moot for a year. The Brits were following orders. And you are buying that BS just like you did in 2002. We call that "fixing" intelligence. You are NOT keeping up.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue May 23, 2006 at 05:23:34 PM EST
    squeaky, PPJ reminds me of this Latin phrase from one of my favorite writers: Mundus Vult Decipi

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#27)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue May 23, 2006 at 05:38:25 PM EST
    Dark Avenger - You are world class when it comes to "not understanding." My source is Mayaki's words, which your first quote also confirms. Thanks. As for Tenet, I agree with him because Mayaki's words at that time were not known to Tenet. The fact Saddam had actually tried to purchase is not changed by the accuracy of the English, or the inaccuracy. BTW - The NYT editorial was the first. So anything that follows can be regarded as attempts to shore up the original. I keep going back to the emphasis on "actual sale" versus "attempt to purchase" in his first story because Bush's claim in the SOTU was about "attempt to purchase," not an "actual purchase." I mean you would think that a trained investigator's second question would be, "Okay. No sales to Iraq. Now did they attempt to purchase?" That Wilson evidently didn't ask, possibility because of his lack of experience, reveals one of the true crimes here. And that is the CIA's letting Mrs. Wilson send him. When you start to think about the lack of information provided by Mr. Wilson in the matter of any "attempts to purchase," a flood of questions come up. 1. He wasn't asked to explore attempted purchases, but received the Mayaki information. a. He didn't mention it because it hurt his position. b. He didn't mention it because he just thought it to be of no interest. (Sure) 2. He wasn't asked to explore attempted purchases and didn't receive the Mayaki information. a. Possible, but if true you really wonder about the professionalism of his directions. b. He took a very narrow view and didn't ask. c. He received the Mayaki information but didn't mention it because it weakened his position. d. He received the Mayaki information but he didn't mention it because he just thought it to be of no interest. (Uh huh) 3. He was asked to explore attempted purchases, but didn't receive the Mayaki information. a. He forgot the answer. b. He couldn't get an answer despite the fact that he was so well connected. c. He had forgotten the question. This explains why he didn't mention it in the article. Squeaky - I again note you suffer from that most human of failings, believing what you want to believe.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#28)
    by Edger on Tue May 23, 2006 at 05:49:36 PM EST
    Anyone else having a problem opening RawStory today? I get a message that it's trying to open "application/x-httpd-php" when I go there.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#29)
    by Edger on Tue May 23, 2006 at 05:55:16 PM EST
    On May 10 ... Vladimir Putin declared in his annual speech to the nation, "The stronger our military is, the less temptation there will be to exert such pressure on us." He continued, "As the saying goes, Comrade Wolf knows whom to eat. He eats without listening and he's clearly not going to listen to anyone." Putin was publicly formulating concerns of ruling circles in Moscow who see a growing threat in the increasing aggressiveness of the US. Putin went on to reproach Washington: "Where is all this pathos about protecting human rights and democracy when it comes to the need to pursue their own interests?" He added that the worldwide arms race was not yet over. Quite the opposite, a "new technological level" had been reached internationally. The arms race was accelerating. He pointed out that the US defense budget was 25 times larger than that of Russia. With regard to the controversy over Iran's nuclear program, Putin indirectly warned against the use of force. Such methods only rarely brought the desired success, he said. More...
    Thanks, George...

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#30)
    by squeaky on Tue May 23, 2006 at 06:00:51 PM EST
    edger-it opens fine for me. Hope you don't have a critter in your system. A webpage trying to open apps doesn't sound kosher.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#31)
    by Edger on Tue May 23, 2006 at 06:05:05 PM EST
    No, it's fine now Squeaky. thanks. I think just a temp issue on their end. I keep my own system very clean, everything is behind firewalls, realtime antivirus and regular mal/spyware checkers.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#32)
    by squeaky on Tue May 23, 2006 at 06:11:37 PM EST
    Dark Avenger- Sadly the phrase does not fit ppj unless the world is so small that it can fit in a teacup. ppj compact universe on a placemat. Most have let go of the bogus Niger yellow cake claims. Hitcens and ppj are some of the last few holdouts. I had not heard of James Branch Cabell before. Thanks for the tip.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#33)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue May 23, 2006 at 06:30:05 PM EST
    Dark Avenger - Didn't know you like latin. Here's one that reminds me of your ducking and weaving. Mus uni non fidit antro

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#34)
    by Edger on Tue May 23, 2006 at 06:30:54 PM EST
    DA, I second Squeaky on that. Thanks. People do seem to love getting their daily deceptions, don't they? :-) Easier than reading, and thinking, I suppose...

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#35)
    by Edger on Tue May 23, 2006 at 06:41:40 PM EST
    Rats use any hole available too: Mus uni non fidit antro ;-)

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#36)
    by Edger on Tue May 23, 2006 at 06:58:08 PM EST
    Something new to explore here. Looks interesting. I haven't yet had time to wander around in it - just found it. Anyone else here know about it?

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#37)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue May 23, 2006 at 07:22:46 PM EST
    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#38)
    by squeaky on Tue May 23, 2006 at 08:19:03 PM EST
    Illegal aliens arrested-begin the ACLU countdown
    They are starting to crack down on all the aliens. Of course anyone from another planet is illegal by definition caus we don't negotiate with aliens.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#39)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue May 23, 2006 at 08:46:35 PM EST
    My source is Mayaki's words, which your first quote also confirms. Thanks. but you then related it to this:
    The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.
    Try to keep up, PPJ. Here's one that reminds me of your ducking and weaving. Well, my fictional avatar put this ability to good use in his adventures against the criminal element, so thanks for confirming that I'm at least a shadow of what he is in my methods and orientation. Oh, and I see that you try to denigrate the memory of a great Southern writer and Phi Beta Kappa member with your little Latin comment. Cabell had the learning for the Latin, I just find it appropriate here, given your BAK blinders that you wear here and the blunders you enact while doing so. Here's my prediction of the beginning of a future Latin history of the Iraqi war:
    Iraqia est omnis divisa in partes tres


    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#40)
    by squeaky on Tue May 23, 2006 at 09:00:04 PM EST
    House Speaker Protests to Bush Over Raid
    The bipartisan aspect of this is that it happened in his office. Odd that they would sell us out to corps and give away our constitutional rights but when it comes to their offices, well that is another story.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#41)
    by squeaky on Tue May 23, 2006 at 10:01:13 PM EST
    New Zogby poll bad news for incumbents and republican politicians in general.
    Overall, just 3% said they think Congress in general is trustworthy, compared to 24% who said President Bush is trustworthy and 29% who said they can put their faith in the national court system, the survey shows. Corporate leaders in America are nearly as widely distrusted as Congress - just 7% said they are trustworthy.


    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#42)
    by jondee on Wed May 24, 2006 at 12:08:38 AM EST
    Three states have Bush at over 50% approval rating. In one you're required by the dominant theocracy, under threat of excommunication, to vote Republican and wear special, intergalactic underwear and in the other they have a special affection for folks who live in compounds protected by razor wire. And then theres Wyoming.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#43)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed May 24, 2006 at 06:11:40 AM EST
    Dark Avenger - Why yes, I did. And you actually understood that I did. I must say I find that impressive. And those Brits won't back down, either. But Mayaki is the best source, he doesn't have any dogs in the fight. As for Latin, my preference is for Southern, in which your claims and and comments may be summarised as:
    "That dog won't hunt."
    A rough translation:
    Ad absurdum
    Sailor - Still waiting for those technical points you claim are wrong. Now, you couldn't have been funning us, could you????

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#44)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed May 24, 2006 at 06:32:58 AM EST
    And those Brits won't back down, either. But Mayaki is the best source, he doesn't have any dogs in the fight. But, you've implied the latter was related to the former, when there is no evidence to show the connection between them. and Actually, PPJ, the phrase is 'reducto ad absurdum', and the best usage would be to describe your BAK POV here. TTFN.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#45)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed May 24, 2006 at 08:04:40 AM EST
    Dark Avenger - I have implied nothing. Both statements claim that Iraq attempted to purchase. Each stand on their own. Where do you get these things? Argumentum ad ignorantiam?

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#46)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed May 24, 2006 at 09:04:18 AM EST
    I have implied nothing. Both statements claim that Iraq attempted to purchase. Each stand on their own. PPJ, at 3:47 yesterday you asserted that the incident reported by Mayaki proved that Bush was correct in saying that British intelligence had learned, blah, blah, blah. It does not. Your imprecise use of language betrays a cloudy BAK agenda, and explains the odor of mendacity which lace most of your rantings here. As for your inquiry, all I can say is that in terms of ignorance, there are some who post here whose sandals I'm unworthy to remove in comparison to myself, and I would fain to refrain from being specific, if that's all right with you. Tempus fugit.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#47)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed May 24, 2006 at 11:24:08 AM EST
    Dark Avenger - Yes I did, and I stand by my statements. Typical of you, you want to take one statement, claim it wrong, etc. I will make another attempt to explain. 1. Both statements stand on their own. 2. Both statements support each other. 3. Either statement would be correct on its own. 4. Either statement is bolstered by the other. My statements are clear enough for anyone except those who want to play lawyer and do "survelling." And feel free to fain all you want. As for me, I'm about to have a risible event. ;-) Tempus fugit, non autem memoria

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#48)
    by squeaky on Wed May 24, 2006 at 12:29:33 PM EST
    GM on Tuesday announced a promotion that caps gas at $1.99 a gallon for one year for buyers of certain full-size sport-utility vehicles and midsize cars in California and Florida. Consumers will receive a monthly credit to a pre-paid fuel card for the difference between $1.99 and the average price of premium gas in their state.
    thinking long term again, that is envisioning the next gov bail out. Chicago Tribune via think progress

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#49)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed May 24, 2006 at 12:49:35 PM EST
    PPJ, it is logically impossible for both statements to stand on their own and that they comfrim each other, but thanks for the display of ignorance on your part.
    anyone except those who want to play lawyer and do "survelling"
    Anyway, have you started learning how to speak Spainish yet? Just think how much ink the Chinese can save by not having to print instructions in English and Spainish on everything they ship to Walamrt. Link Nihil Obstat

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#50)
    by squeaky on Wed May 24, 2006 at 02:26:19 PM EST
    Interesting Delay tactic. Use Colbert to spread your message. Subveting the subverters, taking irony to a new limit. Anyway go to Delay's Legalfund website and see Colbert's interview with Robert Greenwald. On the table is Greenwald's film "The Big Buy: Tom DeLay's Stolen Congress." link via think progress hat tip to atrios

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#51)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed May 24, 2006 at 05:35:07 PM EST
    Dark Avenger - They both say the same thing. Have you tried taking some logic classes? Obviously not. etc....

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#52)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed May 24, 2006 at 05:55:51 PM EST
    Non sequitur.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#53)
    by Edger on Wed May 24, 2006 at 07:58:56 PM EST
    More than 500 Iraqi scientists and academic professors have been assassinated in the past three years by hit squads operating in Iraq with the complicity and assistance of US forces. The assassinations have apparently been carried out by Israel's intelligence agency, Mossad, according to a report from Aljazeera dated May 09, 2206 carried by Axis Of Logic:
    According to the report, which was referred to the U.S. president George W. Bush, Mossad agents had been operating in Iraq with the aim of liquidating Iraqi nuclear and biology scientists, among other scientists, and prominent university professors.
    The report also outlines a presentation by Dr Ismail Jalili titled "Plight of Iraqi Academics", in which he detailed Mossad crimes against the Iraqi scientists at at Madrid Cconference in late April of this year. There has been to my knowledge virtually zero coverage or reprinting of this report by any western mainstream media, although USA Today did print a previous article datelined Baghdad January 25, 2005 stating that:
    about 300 academics and university administrators have been assassinated in a mysterious wave of murders since the American occupation of Iraq began in 2003. About 2,000 others, he says, have fled the country in fear for their lives.
    Where is the ostensible progress being made daily in rebuilding Iraq since the invasion. How can the assassinations of so many of the scientific academic leaders upon which Iraqi progress would be based be squared with the stated goals of the US government of building freedom and democracy in Iraq?

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#54)
    by Edger on Wed May 24, 2006 at 08:11:54 PM EST
    A google search on "iraq scientists assassinated" yields more than 300,000 results...

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#56)
    by Edger on Thu May 25, 2006 at 07:39:58 AM EST
    I'm not surprised that so far no one who has claimed that the invasion of Iraq is and/or was justified in any way has addressed the two questions I asked above in my post about the assassinations of Iraqi scientists... No takers on those? Like maybe the scientists were really the WMD's we all knew were there? (/sarcasm)

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#57)
    by Edger on Thu May 25, 2006 at 08:12:01 AM EST
    Come on guys. I know you can do it. Some of you were pretty wiggly and inventive in coming up with justifications for bombing schools and killing women and children civilians in Afganistan. Thinking up good reasons for murdering scientists and academicians should be a breeze. A cakewalk for you, no? Need some help to get started? Let's see - you could always rely on that old standby, the doctrine of preemption. They might learn something. Better kill 'em now. Get their kids too, before they grow up as smart as their parents. Hmmm? Or just try outright denial. After all the report was first published by Aljazeera. No credibility there, right? There you go - "It never happened!" Denial - the perfect defence. Or you could just ignore the issue altogether? hey, that might work, huh? Come on guys. Use your imagination...