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Wednesday News Roundup and Open Thread

I'm headed up to Aspen for the NORML Legal Seminar. I'll be blogging from Aspen tomorrow through the weekend, with an edited report of our Saturday day trip to Hunter Thompson's Owl Creek Farm where I hear Jimmy Ibbotson of Dirt Band fame, will be performing his brand-new anti-drug war song. Anita (Thompson) is putting together a souvenir booklet of some of Hunter's writings on defense lawyers. If you are a defense lawyer, it's not too late to attend -- just show up to register.

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  • Re: Wednesday News Roundup and Open Thread (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed May 31, 2006 at 12:15:19 PM EST
    I read the summary of Feingold's Bush bashing. The question that immediately comes to mind is 'Can't you do something about it??' Reading TL almost every day, I find that the site regularly outlines, with contributions from many of the regular commenters, how the president has broken the laws of the US, how he has not honoured his pledge to protect the constitution, how he has broken international law, and that it will take years to fix the damage that he has done to the system. The Libby indictment aside, there seems to be little or no consequences for the actions of this administration. It's been going on for more than 5 years- shouldn't the checks and balances of the system have kicked in by now?

    Re: Wednesday News Roundup and Open Thread (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed May 31, 2006 at 12:20:24 PM EST
    I'm afraid I can't remember who said it or the correct wording but to paraphrase one of the regular commenters: 'If our forefathers were around to see this, they'd be on the WH lawn with pitchforks and torches'

    Re: Wednesday News Roundup and Open Thread (none / 0) (#3)
    by squeaky on Wed May 31, 2006 at 12:29:02 PM EST
    In the tradition of James Watt and Gale Norton Bush's new EPA administrator Dirk Kempthorne stepped, or hobbled up to the plate today.
    Bush tapped a man, who has over the course of his 20 years in politics, taken more money from timber, big ag, mining and oil companies than any governor in the history of American politics.
    Jeffrey St. Clair Slate in a 2003 article hoped that a recess appointment of Kempthorne prior to the 2004 elections would be a gift to the democrats. Well flash forward to 2006 and 2008. Bush, obviously a Svengali of sorts, did not need to sneak Kempthorne in. Only 8 senators voted against him. What were the other 92 thinking? I am sure he knows just how to give away our environment to big business so it can get the life sucked out of it.

    Re: Wednesday News Roundup and Open Thread (none / 0) (#4)
    by roger on Wed May 31, 2006 at 12:37:11 PM EST
    Canuck, We used to have that government. Unfortunately, we were taken over in a coup 5 years ago. The US Constitution is no longer in force in our country.

    Re: Wednesday News Roundup and Open Thread (none / 0) (#5)
    by soccerdad on Wed May 31, 2006 at 12:40:06 PM EST
    An article demonstrating how we are losing the war on terrorism

    Re: Wednesday News Roundup and Open Thread (none / 0) (#6)
    by soccerdad on Wed May 31, 2006 at 12:48:45 PM EST
    A senior American general who served as a combat commander in Iraq has accused the Defence Secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, of squandering the lives of United States soldiers by ignoring military advice on how to conduct the campaign. In an interview with The Sunday Telegraph, Major General John Batiste, who resigned last year after 12 months stationed in Iraq's Sunni Triangle, said the Pentagon chief had caused "unnecessary deaths" by committing "strategic blunders of enormous magnitude".
    link

    Re: Wednesday News Roundup and Open Thread (none / 0) (#7)
    by squeaky on Wed May 31, 2006 at 01:06:28 PM EST
    soccerdad- the WOT is fake. It by definition can never be won. Same idea as the WOD. It is about moving taxpayer money from social services to the Military Industrial Complex. Terrorists are only called terrorists by their enemies because they are upsetting the lovely picnic of empire-building, and not playing by 'the rules'. Rules that would include bombing from the high up in the sky and poisoning the environment with depleted uranium armor piercing munitions. Gee wiz why are 'terrorists' not playing by the rules stated in our official manual of how to engage in 'civilized' war? Civilized war is oxymoron central if you ask me. Check out Pachacutec at FDL for more on the fake WOT.

    Re: Wednesday News Roundup and Open Thread (none / 0) (#8)
    by jondee on Wed May 31, 2006 at 01:10:48 PM EST
    Oh lets see, retired Generals should keep their mouths shut when our miltary is in the hands of strategic geniuses; sounds like he has an ax-to-grind (link to Frontpage smear article; his brother-in-law is a heavy contributer to the Democratic Party etc etc See, I saved you the trouble Jim.

    Re: Wednesday News Roundup and Open Thread (none / 0) (#9)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed May 31, 2006 at 01:26:59 PM EST
    Jondee - Thanks, I've got to get back to supervising the workmen in the palatial retirement compound. Turn your back and they'll steal the gold facuets right out of the baths. But I will return.

    Re: Wednesday News Roundup and Open Thread (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed May 31, 2006 at 01:32:31 PM EST
    It seems to me that the current problem started on Christmas Day when Clinton was in office and lied about having sex with Monica Lewinsky. "I never had sex with that girl". Or how about the "I smoked marijuana but never inhaled" trick he used to baffle and show his razzle dazzle hippy experience to plonder the minds of the Baby Boomers. Yeah they smoked marijuana too but never inhaled. All in All a liar was Clinton just as a liar is tied to Bush. Gee ever wonder why nothing can be done to stop societies age old question about how a politician evolved from much the same educated background as the duly reported and declared civil rivalries that go generations back into the elite. It's always been this way and as each year passes pretty soon will be kissing there feet seriously.The Real Rulebreakers are todays Lawmakers and futures will be ordered by spawning new generations of the same.

    Re: Wednesday News Roundup and Open Thread (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed May 31, 2006 at 01:39:15 PM EST
    gold faucets? does the bidet have a mirror inside so you can see yourself?

    Re: Wednesday News Roundup and Open Thread (none / 0) (#12)
    by soccerdad on Wed May 31, 2006 at 01:42:11 PM EST
    Squeaky I agree its a fake. Its simply a cover for using force in the ME for the standard geopolictcal purposes.

    Re: Wednesday News Roundup and Open Thread (none / 0) (#13)
    by kdog on Wed May 31, 2006 at 01:59:56 PM EST
    The Caribbean was totally off the hook. I highly recommend Tortola in the B.V.I....what a gem.

    Re: Wednesday News Roundup and Open Thread (none / 0) (#14)
    by jondee on Wed May 31, 2006 at 02:10:00 PM EST
    Hey Bubba, glad you had a good trip. Good to have you back.

    Re: Wednesday News Roundup and Open Thread (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed May 31, 2006 at 02:11:35 PM EST
    Squeaky... Rules that would include bombing from the high up in the sky and poisoning the environment with depleted uranium armor piercing munitions. What is your problem with using airplanes? You have brought this up on several occasions. Would you rather have everything be hand to hand combat? BTW - uranium tipped munitions don't harm the environment any more than your average smoke bomb. (that's what "depleted" means)

    Re: Wednesday News Roundup and Open Thread (none / 0) (#16)
    by soccerdad on Wed May 31, 2006 at 02:23:56 PM EST
    BTW - uranium tipped munitions don't harm the environment any more than your average smoke bomb. (that's what "depleted" means)
    no thats not what depleted means and I'm sure you already knew that. And if what you said was true US troops handling the crap wouldn't have to take the precaustions they do when they encounter the material. Are you really this ignorant or do you just write down whatever pops into your head?

    Re: Wednesday News Roundup and Open Thread (none / 0) (#17)
    by Peaches on Wed May 31, 2006 at 02:25:33 PM EST
    BTW - uranium tipped munitions don't harm the environment any more than your average smoke bomb. (that's what "depleted" means)
    BB, and what does uranium mean? BB, Does someone who thinks depletede uranium can cause potential health hazards hate Bush and believe America is always wrong?

    Re: Wednesday News Roundup and Open Thread (none / 0) (#18)
    by jondee on Wed May 31, 2006 at 02:28:51 PM EST
    More like, whatever pops into Rush's head.

    Re: Wednesday News Roundup and Open Thread (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed May 31, 2006 at 06:37:05 PM EST
    Why is it that we have a drug Tzar? Do jews have an opinion on this? Should we have drug pograms as well? Am I the only one who thinks that Tzars and firing squads are a good mix, or is the Rush Wing all about bringing back the Tzars?

    Re: Wednesday News Roundup and Open Thread (none / 0) (#20)
    by squeaky on Wed May 31, 2006 at 08:51:59 PM EST
    My problem is that there is a big power imbalance which is always left out of the discussion. To call you enemy terrorists and not mention that those who you are bombing have no planes, tanks or ships is more than a bit insincere, especially when you were bombing the sh*t out of them. Lots of collateral damage, As far as DU you have no idea what you are talking about. You can easily google. Depleted uranium will poison the atmosphere for generations. It is still radioactive, depleted as in the residue from nuclear fuel. Titanium is a far saner choice. It is also armor piercing but much more expensive. It is not radioactive and has no affect on its handlers. Gosh wonder how the energy companies got such a lucky break. They no longer had to pay to dispose the waste but the DOD bought it in order to coat munitions. The stuff doesn't decompose. Since DU has a half-life of 4.5 billion years, there is very little decay of those DU materials.

    Re: Wednesday News Roundup and Open Thread (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 03:18:52 AM EST
    Re: SCOTUS muzzles gov't whistleblowers I've never read the New York Sun, but the mysterious ways of the internets led me to its editorial praising the SCOTUS decision. The final graph: "Valerie Plame, call your office. In too many bureaucracies, unelected staffers routinely subvert the will of the voters by obstructing elected officials with whom the bureaucrats disagree. If we're lucky, this ruling will help the elected managers change that because the court has now clarified where free speech ends and insubordination begins. The ruling doesn't silence whistleblowers so much as it silences employees with an over-developed sense of self-righteousness." Umm...is it just me, or are they suggesting that Valerie Plame was a whistleblower? Who are those people, and why do they call themselves newspaper editors? In her case, it was the managers (but not elected managers, because nobody elected Scooter and Turdblossom), who were the leakers, and they maliciously destroyed her career and her very important work - not the other way around. Silly me, I thought everyone knew that by now. Bejeebus, the fascists really do shun all reality.

    Re: Wednesday News Roundup and Open Thread (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 05:23:36 AM EST
    Canuck, eh! I understand your point - I also wish that we could get off our collective, complacent asses, round up the pitchforks and hit the road to DC. Honestly, I thought that we would rise up way back when the Patriot Act was still just a bill - I'm still a little stunned that we are all just sitting around watching Jack Bauer torture people and eating popcorn. Raul- LMAO!

    Re: Wednesday News Roundup and Open Thread (none / 0) (#23)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 09:21:07 AM EST
    soccerdad... Depleted uranium is the end result when most of the highly radioactive isotopes of uranium are removed. Is it still radioactive? Yes. Is it going to kill everyone within 5 miles of it's use (as you would like us all to believe) .. NO! Peaches... Does someone who thinks depletede uranium can cause potential health hazards hate Bush and believe America is always wrong? Just being in a war zone causes "potential health hazards"... As far as hating Bush and thinking America is always wrong..only you can answer for you. Squeaky... My problem is that there is a big power imbalance which is always left out of the discussion. So...should we fight with the odds more even? Expose our soldiers to even more danger? Your logic escapes me Squeak??? To call you enemy terrorists and not mention that those who you are bombing have no planes, tanks or ships is more than a bit insincere, They are terrorists because they "intentionally" kill innocent people; they blow themselves up and take as many women, children..etc. with them as possible. What weapons they have to fight with is immaterial. They use what they have... (they used planes on 9/11) right now it's young (easily mislead) suicide bombers, but if they ever got their hands on anything stronger... they wouldn't hesitate to use it. Which is why we are at war in the first place especially when you were bombing the sh*t out of them. That's called war. The idea is to kill the enemy.

    Re: Wednesday News Roundup and Open Thread (none / 0) (#24)
    by Peaches on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 09:49:35 AM EST
    As far as hating Bush and thinking America is always wrong..only you can answer for you.
    Well, thank you bb, for offering me this courtesy, while being so willing to toss out this accusation at other posters here at TL. When does someone get to decide for his or her self and when do you get to make the determination? And BB, you compared DU to a smokebomb, saying:
    uranium tipped munitions don't harm the environment any more than your average smoke bomb. (that's what "depleted" means)
    Now you are backtracking and saying DU is radioactive but it won't kill everyone within 5 miles of its use to answer SD's point about military precautions when handling DU. To Echo SD: Are you really this ignorant or do you just write down whatever pops into your head?

    Re: Wednesday News Roundup and Open Thread (none / 0) (#25)
    by soccerdad on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 09:58:30 AM EST
    Is it going to kill everyone within 5 miles of it's use (as you would like us all to believe) .. NO!
    Thanks for the strawman, exactly where do you get them all.
    They are terrorists because they "intentionally" kill innocent people;
    Well then since the US dropped cluster munitions on civilian areas, used napalm, etc the the US are terrorists. thanks for clearing that up.

    Re: Wednesday News Roundup and Open Thread (none / 0) (#26)
    by soccerdad on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 10:00:48 AM EST
    Peaches, I think he is just a neocon tool, who is trying to create a "reality" out of BS. And for those who know the old joke, there is no pony under his pile.

    Re: Wednesday News Roundup and Open Thread (none / 0) (#27)
    by squeaky on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 10:11:20 AM EST
    BB-
    That's called war. The idea is to kill the enemy.
    What war. The war on terror is not a war. There will always be terror, it is an emotion. Does that mean that we will always be at war? License to aerial bomb civilian targets because 'terrorists' are allegedly in the vicinity? Does putting the word war before a thing make it OK to bomb and kill? How about the war on drugs? Bombing OK there too? DU is now a poison that Iraqi's and occupiers ingest on a daily basis. It is in the water air and food supply and will be for 4.5 billion years. It will continue its dirty work long after the occupation is gone. From cancers to birth defects, Iraqis will suffer from this little gift we gave them for centuries to come. Long after anyone remembers Saddam the Iraqis will be cursing America for the DU legacy it left behind.

    Re: Wednesday News Roundup and Open Thread (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 11:37:34 AM EST
    Peaches... while being so willing to toss out this accusation at other posters here at TL. Read their posts ..it's no mystery how they feel. Now you are backtracking and saying DU is radioactive but it won't kill everyone within 5 miles of its use to answer SD's point about military precautions when handling DU. I'm not backtracking at all. I never said they weren't radioactive. I was pointing out it's very low and will mess up the atmosphere no worse than a big smoke bomb. As far as precautions are concerned...after all the "agent orange" stuff in Nam...can you blame them? Soccerdad... Well then since the US dropped cluster munitions on civilian areas, So the military hating left (& you) continues to spew... I think he is just a neocon tool, Nope.. I'm just an average American (& ex liberal) who loves my country and the men fighting for me... And am not willing to take the side of our enemy as you are all so eager to do. Squeaky... There will always be terror, it is an emotion. Does that mean that we will always be at war? Terror is a tactic...not an emotion. And, as long as there is a group of people bent on our destruction.... then yes.. that might be the case. (Unless of course a lib gets in office and wants to surrender...you know..politcal correctness & all) I believe if we had delt with this 'terror' threat back in the 70's when it really raised it's ugly head, we wouldn't be having these problems now. But that's another story. License to aerial bomb civilian targets because 'terrorists' are allegedly in the vicinity? See...as I tried to point out to Soccerdad, I don't beleive our military intentionally bombs civilians. In fact, I know they go way out of their way to make sure that doesn't happen... sometimes at much greater risk to themselves... and it really pains me to see all of you point fingers at them so readily...especially before the facts are in. That is one main difference in my side & your side.. you see them as murderers & we don't. We see them as our sons & daughters.. doing their job & following orders. It is in the water air and food supply and will be for 4.5 billion years Where did you get this? The daily KOS? You actually think we are indiscriminately dropping these everywhere? Is there any anti-war propoganda you guys don't swallow hook line & sinker???

    Re: Wednesday News Roundup and Open Thread (none / 0) (#30)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 11:40:14 AM EST
    I'd like to change the subject. I see Michael Moore is being sued... It's about time. That guy has gotten away with printing more garbage than anyone. You want to talk about liars... he is one of your side's best! Anyone hear about this & care to defend him?

    Re: Wednesday News Roundup and Open Thread (none / 0) (#31)
    by soccerdad on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 11:47:40 AM EST
    Well then since the US dropped cluster munitions on civilian areas, So the military hating left (& you) continues to spew...
    speaking of spewing, are you denying they did this?
    Nope.. I'm just an average American (& ex liberal) who loves my country and the men fighting for me... And am not willing to take the side of our enemy as you are all so eager to do.
    typical attack and non-answer. A fool hiding behind patriotism.
    mess up the atmosphere no worse than a big smoke bomb
    . this is meaningless since the point is how much gets into the body, unlike smoke it is not dispersed into a large volume but remains on the weapons, ground, plants etc. More importantly theproblem is that not only is it radioactive but itis also a heavy metal and therefore has at least 2 pathways of causing harm in humans.
    You actually think we are indiscriminately dropping these everywhere?
    they are being used in high population centers not just out in the middle of nowhere. Use google sometime. you are the fascist propagandist spewing slogans and no facts.

    Re: Wednesday News Roundup and Open Thread (none / 0) (#32)
    by jondee on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 11:50:01 AM EST
    Lets see, Charlie was banned for what again? Oh thats right, to make more room for bandwidth devouring savants like B.B.

    Re: Wednesday News Roundup and Open Thread (none / 0) (#33)
    by jondee on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 11:59:31 AM EST
    B.B - When you attack a country with the absolute certainty that thousands of innocents will be killed, maimed, and traumatized, you're as morally resonsible for the death and destruction inflicted as any "terrorist." Claiming that we always try to "minimize" the suffering of innocents is a transparent, self-serving b.s excuse. Of course this isnt really a question of morality, its about what makes B.B feel better about himself and fearless leader.

    Re: Wednesday News Roundup and Open Thread (none / 0) (#34)
    by squeaky on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 12:07:37 PM EST
    You actually think we are indiscriminately dropping these everywhere?
    Obviously you have done zero research regarding DU. Upon impact the DU casing igites leaving a fine white radioactive dust. The dust gets into everything. The DU casings are on most munitions if not all.

    Re: Wednesday News Roundup and Open Thread (none / 0) (#35)
    by jondee on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 12:09:13 PM EST
    I bet you'd like to change the subject.

    Re: Wednesday News Roundup and Open Thread (none / 0) (#36)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 02:03:19 PM EST
    Soccerdad... speaking of spewing, are you denying they did this? Am I denying that the US Government "purposely" bombed a "Civilain" area with cluster munitions? YES I AM! I suppose we could debate what your idea of a "civilain" area is at this point...but what's the point? typical attack and non-answer. You didn't ask a question! You accused me (attacked) of being a "neocon tool". you are the fascist propagandist spewing slogans and no facts C'mon SD... you can do better than that.. you are one of the best name callers on here! Any facts I cite you will dispute.. just like the 'facts' I dispute that you pull off the liberal biased American hating left wing sites you frequent. So again...what's the point. You'll never see the light...there is too much hate blinding your vision. Jondee... Lets see, Charlie was banned for what again? For being really nasty and calling people names all the time. Oh thats right, to make more room for bandwidth devouring savants like B.B. We all have our opinions Jondee... I think yours are just as lame...so get over yourself. B.B - When you attack a country with the absolute certainty that thousands of innocents will be killed, maimed, and traumatized, First of all...nothing is certain. But, let me ask you this... Were you this concerned when Saddam was killing, maiming and traumatizing thousands? I bet not! So...., so much for you "concern" about civilians. As with most on the left, you fake outrage to jump on Bush...Period.. End of story. You phoneys fool no one. you're as morally resonsible for the death and destruction inflicted as any "terrorist." I disagree.. Here's another quetion I asked in another post...and would be VERY interested in your answer... Hitler killed millions... (I'm assuming you agree with that?).. So, when we went in to get him, and undoubtedly killed thousands of civilians in the process, were we "just as bad as him"...? Just wondering what your thoughts are on that? With your (twisted) logic, we should never have fought WWII... right? Claiming that we always try to "minimize" the suffering of innocents is a transparent, self-serving b.s excuse It's not a claim....it's a fact! I personally have done so during my career. BTW - Where & when did you serve? And for you to claim otherwise (because you happen to read some thread in some liberal America hating blog) is not only a slap in the face of our brave troops, but down right treasonous. These are our own sons & daughters you are defaming here! Too bad you can't channel some of this outrage against our actaul enemy. Of course this isnt really a question of morality, No..it's about war... you either win or you lose. I just thank GOD that there weren't many people like you around 60 years ago... we'd we speaking German right now. I bet you'd like to change the subject Well I was interested in what you all had to say about your pal Mr. Moore...but that's fine. I can understand why you'd all want to stay away from that! Squeaky... Obviously you have done zero research regarding DU. Please see my comment to Soccerdad above. For every left wing America hating memo you can cite. I can cite just as many that refute them...and on and on and around & round we go.... But you go ahead and beleive we are the 'bad' guys.. as Jondee pointed out.. It makes you all feel better... It justifies your hatred....

    Re: Wednesday News Roundup and Open Thread (none / 0) (#37)
    by jondee on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 02:14:05 PM EST
    Bullet brain - When desperate and in doubt whip out the WWII metaphor as if it had anything whatsoever to do with the Iraq situation. Iraq was contained and disarmed, Germany was in the process of overruning and subjugating most of West and Eastern Europe. It called context. I thought we'd been over this a few times already.

    Re: Wednesday News Roundup and Open Thread (none / 0) (#38)
    by soccerdad on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 02:15:12 PM EST
    C'mon SD... you can do better than that.. you are one of the best name callers on here!
    I call them as I see them and there are 2-3 of you that are beneath contempt for the blatant dishoest and outright lies you tell. You guys attack just as bad if not worse, I feel no reason to be polite. But since you can lie here as much as you want go ahead who cares. The failure to hold the right wing noise machine accountable in any way is one of the reasons that the left loses. They dont believe in their principles to fight for them in any real way. But truth be told there is little of the left around, they have replaced by corporate bought centerists who are no better than the right. That is why the tirades of RA and PPJ are so amusing. They are tilting at windmills. Who on the Dem side opposed the war, how many are calling for a pull out and an end to the imperialistic slaughter of civilians for corporate gain. And that is what this war is about, geopolitical control of the ME so as to monopolize the resources.

    Re: Wednesday News Roundup and Open Thread (none / 0) (#39)
    by jondee on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 02:21:26 PM EST
    B.B - It aint "we"; its a faction, and always has been. About half the country didnt vote at all, and of the half that did, a lttle more than half voted for this administration and its agenda. If you think the agenda they're prosecuting now expresses the desire and needs of the majority of Americans, I've got some scientology and Hare Krishna literature I'd like to send you.

    Re: Wednesday News Roundup and Open Thread (none / 0) (#40)
    by Peaches on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 02:48:59 PM EST
    It's not a claim....it's a fact![we always try to "minimize" the suffering of innocents]I personally have done so during my career. BTW - Where & when did you serve?And for you to claim otherwise (because you happen to read some thread in some liberal America hating blog) is not only a slap in the face of our brave troops, but down right treasonous.
    Not in the America I live in, BB. At least not yet. Someone makes a claim that we don't always try to minimize the suffering of innocents and you call this claim Treasonous because it is our brave sons and daughters over there, who we would like to get out of harms way. That is so pathetic it is almost beyond belief. And you say this while knowing we drop bombs in populated areas...knowing we go into war ready to call the deaths of innocents collateral damage. The only reason we make any effort to avoid deaths of innocents in this war is because of the negative publicity that may result if this loss is reported in the press--not out of any concern for innocent iIraqi life. Then you call this reporting the works of a liberal press who hate the US and think America is always wrong. How could your thinking ever get so twisted?

    Re: Wednesday News Roundup and Open Thread (none / 0) (#41)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 03:05:30 PM EST
    Jondee.. Bullet brain .. How about your 'concern' for the deaths under Saddam..? I knew you wouldn't answer any of it...! You're a fake...just like I thought. Yeah..you're really "concerned"!!! Question too tough... call some names... that'll show me... You know I'm right. If you think the agenda they're prosecuting now expresses the desire and needs of the majority of Americans Until you guys actually 'win' an election... this is a moot point on your side. Soccerdad... But since you can lie here as much as you want go ahead who cares PLease point out where I "lied"! Oh that's right...I forgot...you guys on the left have severe trouble with what that word actually means don't you? Peaches.. Someone makes a claim that we don't always try to minimize the suffering of innocents and you call this claim Treasonous NO Peaches...somebody didn't claim we "don't always try"...they claimed we "intentionally target" big difference! And that is treasonous! The only reason we make any effort to avoid deaths of innocents in this war is because of the negative publicity that may result if this loss is reported in the press--not out of any concern for innocent iIraqi life You're dead wrong on that...and it sickens me to think you all actually believe we are that barbaric! Why do you all stay in such a nasty, hateful, evil country??? How could your thinking ever get so twisted? That was going to be my question to you!

    Re: Wednesday News Roundup and Open Thread (none / 0) (#42)
    by squeaky on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 05:23:48 PM EST
    RFK jr's article on election fraud in Ohio in 2004 is terribly depressing at rolling stone The saddest, and most unfathomable part, is that democrats will not introduce legislation to allay election fraud out of fear that the republican controlled congress will up the ante and use even more dirty tricks than in 2004. Here is one example of the republican operatives nonsense or fraud.
    But the decision didn't stop officials in Warren County from devising a way to count the vote in secret. Immediately after the polls closed on Election Day, GOP officials -- citing the FBI -- declared that the county was facing a terrorist threat that ranked ten on a scale of one to ten. The county administration building was hastily locked down, allowing election officials to tabulate the results without any reporters present. In fact, there was no terrorist threat. The FBI declared that it had issued no such warning
    Not only was there no terror threat but this tactic was planned out eight days earlier. This article is one that if disseminated to every voter could spark a bloody revolution in America. The RNC is clearly being run like organized crime, very organized crime. rolling stone

    Re: Wednesday News Roundup and Open Thread (none / 0) (#43)
    by squeaky on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 05:55:09 PM EST
    Caferty has more on the organized efforts of republicans to supress the vote. Wonder what they are afraid of happening? Guess that if voting was as easy as it should be the republicans would be out on their a$$.

    Re: Wednesday News Roundup and Open Thread (none / 0) (#44)
    by Peaches on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 07:26:38 AM EST
    You're dead wrong on that...and it sickens me to think you all actually believe we are that barbaric!
    Yes, Barbaric is appropriate. I do believe barbaric would be an accurate description of you. You love and glorify war and violece. Why do you all stay in such a nasty, hateful, evil country??? Because it is my country. I believe in the ideals that it was founded upon. I do not like to see the country stumble in its quest to achieve these ideals of democracy and individual freedoms because of barbaric citizens like you who believe it is okay to put your fellow citizen soldiers in harms way for immoral causes. If anything, that is treasonous.

    Re: Wednesday News Roundup and Open Thread (none / 0) (#45)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 08:42:47 AM EST
    Peaches... You love and glorify war and violece. Once again you are dead wrong! As a combat verteran of Viet Nam, I can tell you that there is nothing about war that I love! Why is it that we (who back the troops and this war effort) are accused of this crap you just spewed? There is a time to take up arms.... and this is it. Like it or not...beleive it or not.. there are people out there that want us all dead! I know from pasts posts that you are one of those who feel fighting is NEVER justified...and I respect that... but it's not a perfect world and that is just not possible. I do not like to see the country stumble in its quest to achieve these ideals of democracy I don't either...but guess what... we are not perfect and we will stumble from time to time... The trick is...how do we, the citizens, act when it does stumble? Do we jump in and critisize...divide the country and split it down the middle..or do we band together and fix things. Unfortunately, I know where the "left" stands on that question! barbaric citizens like you who believe it is okay to put your fellow citizen soldiers in harms way for immoral causes. Protecting American citizens form people, religions, countries..etc.. that want to kill us is not barbaric or immoral...but is actually our government's job! Too bad many of you think this is not the case. But thankfully... those immoral, barbaric guys out there continue to allow you the "freedom" to think as illogical as you do and announce that illogic to the world through blogs like this. May God bless them.... & you.

    Re: Wednesday News Roundup and Open Thread (none / 0) (#46)
    by Peaches on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 09:07:31 AM EST
    But thankfully... those immoral, barbaric guys out there continue to allow you the "freedom" to think as illogical as you do and announce that illogic to the world through blogs like this.
    BB, Don't wrap yourself in a flag. Your BS only goes so far. You were the one calling the posters here treasonous for saying we don't always try to avoid civilain deaths, which is obvious to anyone with one half ounce of honesty. And you never experienced combat--you are lying. You first said you were in the Airforce. Then you said you were drafted in the Army. Then it was pointed out that you had said previously you were in the air force. Then you said, nice catch, I was drafted by the army, so I joined the air force (Which we know is done to avoid experincing combat). You have never come anywhere near experiencing what a combat soldier experienced in Viet Nam or Iraq, so you can quit with your charade. You are a chickenhawk. As Chris Hedges said about his father a combat veteran in WWII:
    During a Fourth of July parade in the farm town where I grew up he turned to me as the paunchy veterans walked past and said acidly, "Always remember, most of those guys were fixing the trucks in the rear." He hated the VFW hall where these men went, mostly to drink. He found their periodic attempts to re-create the comradeship of war, something that of course could never be re-created, pathetic and sad.
    Never a more truer description of chickenhawks. If you were even in Viet Nam, you wer ein the rear wiping down planes. You are pathetic and sad also, in your attempts to make this war into something it is not--glorious and worhtwhile to all of us Americans.

    Re: Wednesday News Roundup and Open Thread (none / 0) (#47)
    by squeaky on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 11:07:06 AM EST
    Roger Ailes has a good line:
    How do you recognize a Bush Pioneer? His pasty white face clashes with his orange jumpsuit.
    More on the Ohio coingate conviction of Tom Noe

    Re: Wednesday News Roundup and Open Thread (none / 0) (#48)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Jun 06, 2006 at 01:58:59 PM EST
    Peaches... You were the one calling the posters here treasonous for saying we don't always try to avoid civilain deaths, And I stand by that comment! And you never experienced combat--you are lying. No..I'm not...I flew 52 missions over Viet Nam ...and I can prove it... care to make a wager ??? You first said you were in the Airforce. Then you said you were drafted in the Army. This isn't hard to understand...but you obviously need help. I was drafted,.... but I didn't want to be in the "Army" knowing I'd be running through a rice paddy with an M-16 soon. (so you are partially correct on the 'trying to avoid combat' comment).... So, I joined the Air Force and was qualified for flight duty (I do love to fly) so that's what I did. Understand now? It really isn't all that difficult. Funny..., in other posts, you seemed to be nice and actually wanting to talk about things... then this...: You have never come anywhere near experiencing what a combat soldier experienced in Viet Nam or Iraq, Wrong... But I do know that does apply to you. You are pathetic and sad also, Sadly...I feel that way about you now. Let me know how many hundreds ($$$) you'd like to wager!