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Web Users to Patrol Texas Border

By Jeralyn, Section Civil Liberties
Posted on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 09:50:03 AM EST
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Texas moves one step closer to vigiliantism.

A US state is to enlist web users in its fight against illegal immigration by offering live surveillance footage of the Mexican border on the internet. The plan will allow web users worldwide to watch Texas' border with Mexico and phone the authorities if they spot any apparently illegal crossings.

And in Denver, a local radio host, Peter Boyles, takes donations and forms a company, Billboards Colorado, to put up anti-immigrant rights billboards around the city.

Better reading: Robert Lovato, Michelle Garcia and Salim Muwakkil in the new edition of the Nation.

Salim explains how immigrant restrictive bills are the product of a long history of white supremacism in this country. Rep. James Sensenbrenner(R-WI)'s bad, bad border bill, H.R. 4437, is just the latest example.

< Charges May Soon Be Filed in Death of Iraqi Civilian | NSA Lawsuit Moves Forward >

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    • Web Users to Patrol Texas Border | 79 comments (79 topical)
    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 10:21:07 AM EST
    I cannot understand opposition to monitoring our borders. Putting webcams along the border and streaming video to a website is not a practical method of reducing illegal immigration. It's far from vigiliantism as the above post suggests. It's lost on me why people wouldn't oppose illegal immigration. Illegal immigration must be reduced for 2 reasons: 1. We need to know who is coming in this country, in order to (at least attempt) to prevent the "bad eggs" from entering. 2. To protect the immigrants themselves. The situation today is one where undocumented workers can be exploited by unscrupulous employers because they are outside the full protection of the law. It just makes sense.

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#2)
    by roy on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 10:24:50 AM EST
    Vigilante: One who takes or advocates the taking of law enforcement into one's own hands. But this is a state-sponsored program in which private people don't enforce the law themselves, but rather call the cops when they see something suspicious. So it is a step away from vigilantism and toward reinforcing state power. This isn't Batman or Charles Bronson, it's McGruff the Crime Dog. (Also, the first link has a typo, add an initial "h" to the "ttp://") (And to fend off silly ad hominems, I favor strong due process rights for all aliens, legal or otherwise, and easy legal border crossings for aliens who aren't known criminals)

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#3)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 11:24:31 AM EST
    I love the sign hanging around the statue's neck. And I hope everyone gets to look at it. Things change, people. We are full up.

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#4)
    by Dadler on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 11:40:34 AM EST
    Jim, We are as full as we perceive ourselves to be, and we are as empty as we perceive ourselves to be. Unless you want to militarize the entire border and create a bizzaro Berlin Wall scenario at unfathomable cost, then I think we need to think beyond the LITERAL acceptance of a SATIRICAL device -- that being the sign around Lady Liberty's neck you so appreciate. So...it's no to all the people fleeing the corrupt government in Mexico, it's no to all those fleeing the dictators and death squads in central America, it's not to those fleeing the commie leaders popping up around South America? I don't get it, where do you want the people who flee from the evil we're fighting to go? In short, I think we're both full of sh*t, and we both need to take a long hard look at what EITHER of us does to help anyone besides ourselves.

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 12:20:20 PM EST
    Unless you want to militarize the entire border and create a bizzaro Berlin Wall scenario at unfathomable cost
    One important note, the Berlin walls main function was to keep its citizens in, not to control who was entering. One of my main concerns is overpopulation, it is the biggest environmental threat we are facing. I believe many parts of the world are at a critical population mass because uneducated people continue to have as many children as they can to take care of them in their old age, that is their social security. We are close to the point to where we will need to stop immigration all together, Mexicans, Europeans, Asians, ect.

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 12:24:45 PM EST
    another handy definition then: vigilantism When a state, or the federal government, enforces any law that TL objects to. I suggest that TL look up the following terms, as it's quite clear to me that TL needs to: citizen illegal alien enforcement

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#7)
    by cpinva on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 12:33:42 PM EST
    actually, the reason we invaded iraq was to find and dispose of those wmd's that saddam had aimed at brownsville, tx. or something like that. the "free from dictatorship, install democracy, blah, blah, blah" came later, when that wmd thing didn't work out. pretty cheesy, but your headline was a tad misleading, at least from what i read of the post from your link. the billboards seem to be aimed at illegal immigrants, not all immigrants. if i missed some aimed at all of them, do point me in the right direction. again, i don't blame these people for wanting to come here, however they can. i blame pres. fox & bush, for doing nothing to stem the tide.

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#8)
    by Punchy on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 01:15:42 PM EST
    One of my main concerns is overpopulation, it is the biggest environmental threat we are facing. Don't worry. Our Marines are taking care of the overpopulation problem (allegedly). This promises to be good comedy. I mean, haliriousness. Think about it. Joe and Mike and Bobby and Pam all see the same crosser, and not knowing that the other also sees it, they'll ALL call the police station one after another. Every single illegal is going to generate hundreds of calls. Multiply that by hundreds of illegals...well...the police station/Border Patrol switchboard operators are about to get crushed...

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#9)
    by Punchy on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 01:18:51 PM EST
    One more thought--why not just do this everywhere? Why not put up webcams in every major city, and when someone watching thinks he/she sees a terrorist, they can call the police? Any and all suspicious people. Men with beards, women in wraps, teenagers with shaved heads...all could be terrorists, right? We oughta be able to phone those in, eh? Nah...that wouldn't hurt real police work, now would it?

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 01:37:23 PM EST
    The plan will allow web users worldwide to watch Texas' border with Mexico and phone the authorities if they spot any apparently illegal crossings. As long as we keep doing the 'catch & release' program like we are now....what's the point???

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#11)
    by Aaron on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 01:37:56 PM EST
    What a fabulous idea, now when Al Qaeda decides to drive a van with a thermonuclear device in the back across the Tijuana border, all they'll have to do is make a call to the border patrol at the highway checkpoint and turn in a bunch of Guatemalan grape pickers jumping the fence a few miles away. Thereby pulling the agents away from the checkpoint where the van is crossing so the Al Qaeda operatives with their bomb can motor their way into the US in air-conditioned comfort completely unmolested. When the device detonates in downtown San Diego and millions of Americans die, at least we'll be comforted by the fact that we've prevented those evil illegal migrant workers from feeding their children. And you just know that when someone detonates one of these devices it's going to be in a blue state, because that's where the intelligent thinking people and economic infrastructure are to be found. Al Qaeda won't even bother with Texas and most of the South because they've realized that the red state people became their unwitting allies in the cause of Islamic fundamentalism long ago. Eventually all Texans will receive honorary membership in Al Qaeda, and be invited to the parties at Osama bin Laden's new headquarters adjacent to the Crawford ranch. Of course they'll have to make the shift from Christian fundamentalism to Islamic fundamentalism, but most of them will hardly notice the change in wording their Bibles from Jesus to Mohammed. After all fundamentalism is fundamentalism, no need to quibble over unimportant details.

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#12)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 01:44:02 PM EST
    I guess it's true what they say about fear being the ultimate motivator. Now if people would only understand it's the guys in Washington we should fear and monitor...and not Jose the Gardener, maybe we'd get this country back in shape.

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#13)
    by Dadler on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 02:16:35 PM EST
    Gunshy, I wrote bizarro Berlin Wall "scenario" to indicate I wasn't making a literal reference. Although keeping West Germans out the Wall also served to do. Would the Berlin Wall paradigm have been acceptable if it worked more intensely in reverse? Of course not. Nor will it for us.

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#14)
    by dutchfox on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 02:33:17 PM EST
    Just heard Chertoff interviewed on NPR afternoon news. He likens the webcams to those "neighborhood watch" programs in towns and cities. NPR also interviwed the head of TX homeland security who said they will treat anyone coming over the border 'illegally' as 'criminals,' be they immigrants, terrorists or drug runners.

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 03:53:00 PM EST
    Talk about life imitating art. A year or two ago, a Daily Kos diarist has a several episode fictional scenario running in which the government delegated law enforcement duties to webusers as a sort of game.

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#16)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 06:39:17 PM EST
    Dadler writes:
    I don't get it, where do you want the people who flee from the evil we're fighting to go?
    How about they go home and fight evil along side us? To be more specific, and realistic, it is not our duty to accept Mexico's problems. As an email floating around on the web says:
    Why should I have to push 1 for English?
    Enough is enough is enough.

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#17)
    by soccerdad on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 07:01:15 PM EST
    PPJ's racism is bubbling right at the surface Myth:Immigrants don't want to learn English or become Americans Fact:Within ten years of arrival, more than 75% of immigrants speak English well; moreover, demand for English classes at the adult level far exceeds supply. Greater than 33% of immigrants are naturalized citizens; given increased immigration in the 1990s, this figure will rise as more legal permanent residents become eligible for naturalization in the coming years. The number of immigrants naturalizing spiked sharply after two events: enactment of immigration and welfare reform laws in 1996, and the terrorist attacks in 2001. source:U.S. Census Bureau, U.S. Department of Homeland Security (Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services) myth: Today's immigrants are different than those of 100 years ago Fact:The percentage of the U.S. population that is foreign-born now stands at 11.5%; in the early 20th century it was approximately 15%. Similar to accusations about today's immigrants, those of 100 years ago initially often settled in mono-ethnic neighborhoods, spoke their native languages, and built up newspapers and businesses that catered to their fellow émigrés. They also experienced the same types of discrimination that today's immigrants face, and integrated within American culture at a similar rate. If we view history objectively, we remember that every new wave of immigrants has been met with suspicion and doubt and yet, ultimately, every past wave of immigrants has been vindicated and saluted. source:U.S. Census Bureau Link

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#18)
    by soccerdad on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 07:10:16 PM EST
    racist fear mongering goes mainstream In their desperation for a distraction from the FUBAR that is IRAQ, the far right is teaming with certified racists and spewing Nazi-like propaganda

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#19)
    by aw on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 07:19:26 PM EST
    Wait till the Chinese take us over as we default on our debt. They'll own our national parks and forests, our natural resources, our agribusiness, our ports, our best real estate, telecoms and media, you name it. And there's a billion of them. Our government will serve at their pleasure. Imagine us as colonies to be exploited, again. To me this is all bread and circuses now.

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#20)
    by Jo on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 07:20:29 PM EST
    Bring the troops home from Iraq to monitor the border. Those caught entering our country illegally should be given six weeks of basic training and a plane ticket to Iraq. Problem solved.

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 07:31:21 PM EST
    "Anti-immigrant rights billboard"? It is amazing that a country founded on opportunity, improved quality of life, mixing, melting, whatever, now expends so much money and energy to keep out those who are essentially coming over for the same reasons our ancestors did. Sad.

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#22)
    by squeaky on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 08:08:54 PM EST
    the bedwetter fantasty is that the reconquistadors are plotting to take back texas and california, ...and beyond... Send in the national guard.

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#23)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 09:37:04 PM EST
    SD - Your reference is about LEGAL immigrants. Please try to keep up. aw - Was it you accusing me of "fear?"

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#24)
    by Al on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 09:42:29 PM EST
    The cameras will cost $5m (£2.7m) to install and will be trained on sections of the 1,000-mile (1,600km) border known to be favoured by illegal immigrants.
    Ooooh, I smell a nice juicy contract ... 5 million buckeroos, and it will be trained on sections of the border? Does that include the servers, and the broadband connections? And those cameras can see in the infrared, I trust?

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#25)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 10:23:47 PM EST
    Why should I have to push 1 for English?
    Because Americans are too lazy to pick their own lettuce and rich folks don't wanna clean their own spawn's sh*tty diapers.

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#26)
    by jondee on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 11:07:10 PM EST
    "Why should I have to press 1 for English?" Oh the humanity! Next they'll be asking you to give up your tax-cut to pay for flack jackets. You should be pressing your preznit retake English 101.

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#27)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 12:22:09 AM EST
    Just to make it clear, the source for soccerdad's comment is not the U.S. Census Bureau, but the National Immigration Forum. Read the link before regurgitatingi their propaganda. I list just 9 of the differences between today's and yesterday's immigration here.

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#28)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 12:32:30 AM EST
    Things change, people. We are full up. You don't make any such distinction in your comment over legal vs. illegal, or are we suppose to be able to read your mind so that we know 100% what you're talking about? TTFN.

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#29)
    by cpinva on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 02:02:59 AM EST
    soccerdad, i have to be honest, i am against illegal immigration, not immigration in general. while it's true that many people have taken this opportunity to bash immigrants in toto (much as their ancestors bashed the immigrant germans, irish, italians, poles, etc), the vast majority of americans are pretty clearly focused on illegal immigrants. i also realize that this is a criminal defense atty's site, and a pretty liberal one. fair enough. that said, i wasn't aware that jeralyn or Tchris, et al were also advocating breaking the law. if that's the case, please make that a bit clearer, for those of us who obviously missed it. it's the right thing to do.

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#30)
    by soccerdad on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 04:17:56 AM EST
    if one is only worried about breaking the law than why all the comments about culture etc. No the real fear for some is the loss of white mans privalage. People engage in racist comments then when called on it resort to we're only talking about illegals. BS

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#31)
    by soccerdad on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 04:46:32 AM EST
    since he brought it uo lets look at Bigmedia's list 1. Many of our current illegal aliens are from a neighboring country, meaning they don't have to make a clean break Yeah so. What the problem with this? how about some specifics. 2. Related to that, past immigrants came here on ships; current immigrants can walk over. Well thats a reason to shoot them all if I ever heard one. 3. the old reconquesta BS 4. There wasn't a far-left, Gramscian "multiculturalism" movement a century ago. again whats the point, you dont want a nother reason to be polite? 5/ 5. There were ethnic newspapers, but nothing like today's ethnic media. there were TVs for no one back then whats the point? 6. Immigrants who came through Ellis Island were checked for disease and suitability. The old dirty disease infested brown people canard/ 7. The welfare state hardly existed a century ago. true - do have any number to get an idea of the real magnitude of the problem and dont forget to include any taxes paid. 8. Obvious to anyone who's been to, say, Dallas or Los Angeles, there were many fewer people here a century ago than there are now. How much of that increase is illegal aliens? There are also more people in my 99.9% white town here in Mass. population is up about 10x. You just dont like the color of their skin. as usual more empty fear mongering generalities with a clear under tone of racism.

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#32)
    by aw on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 05:10:16 AM EST
    Did I sound fearful? Ten trillion in debt is pretty scary. Think of what it's going to take to pay that back. I'm not afraid for myself (you and I will be dead by then most likely), but for our kids and grandchildren. Yes, I think it's a greater threat than poor Mexican immigrants. Maybe we'll even need them here to help pay off that debt.

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#33)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 06:02:18 AM EST
    Dark Avenger - In your case I really don't care because you will disagree no matter what. Your reputation is made. aw - Money is money. You can always get more money, your life is something else. SD - The point is that in the past the difficulties pushed the individual towards assimilation. 1. Return by ship was difficult and expensive. 2. No telephone communications, only letters and maybe telegraph. 3. No TV or radio broadcast in the native tongues. All three of these were powerful drivers to insure that the immigrant assimilated. All three now really no longer exist. Plus: 4. The expectation of society was that America was best. There was no PC BS and babble about divesity, etc. 5. All business outside of the immigrant ghetto/sub group was conducted in English. THERE WAS NO PRESS 2 FOR SPAINISH! Or, press 1 for English. Make of the above what you want. I really don't care. BTW - When it comes to taxes, you should try and remember that schools are basically funded by city and county property taxes. The average per student cost exceeds $5,000. So a illegal alien with a family of four, is costing the system $10,000. aw - Read the above paragraph and think a bit.

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#34)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 06:12:41 AM EST
    How much of that increase is illegal aliens? There are also more people in my 99.9% white town here in Mass. population is up about 10x. You just dont like the color of their skin.
    Why do you live in a 99.9 % white town? Don't you want a little "diversity"? You cannot even begin to understand the issue unless your kids are being undereducated due to a massive influx of illegal aliens. You are just a guilt ridden white liberal. Move to Somerville and then tell me how you like the little darling gangbanger illegals

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#35)
    by soccerdad on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 06:18:02 AM EST
    Listen A$$hole I lived in LA for 8 years in neighborhoods where I was the minority. so f&&koff Most gangbangers are not illegals so stop lying

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#36)
    by soccerdad on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 06:19:27 AM EST
    And BTW in those 8 years in spanish neighborhoods I never had a single problem

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#37)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 06:27:16 AM EST
    So after 8 years in a wonderfull spanish neighborhood you decided to move to a 99.9% white suburb? Hypocrite! Don't preach to me about illegal aliens from your lily white bubble. I guess most gangbangers are not illegal, but the ones that are should be deported IMMEDIATELLY, without waiting for them to be convicted of a felony.

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#38)
    by soccerdad on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 06:31:43 AM EST
    0h so now you guess they aren't illegals so your original statement is complete BS and you call me a hypocrite F##k you

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#39)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 06:39:38 AM EST
    I never said that most illegals were gangbangers, but is is a FACT that MS-13 is operating in Massachusetts, although certainly not in your exclusionary white bubble.

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#40)
    by soccerdad on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 06:39:57 AM EST
    I have a white [just to be clear] son who was born with spina bifida. His only problem was he needs the chair normal intelligence etc I had to bring in the Fed. Dept Of Ed. Office of Civil rights and have them charge the liily white school system with civil rights violations, some of the worse they had ever seen. I've put up with people giving me the finger when I was putting my son on the van because they thought we were taking too much money from the budget, we probably reuired less than 5k /year.The school system to punish us wanted to send him to a private placement for 100k/year So I've been on the receiveing end of crap from Bast##ds like you. I know how people can speak in coded words that make it sound like its not prejudice. You dont fool me. If you dont like where you live move, what no personal responsibility for your own family or are you such a failure you cant so now you need to blame someone else. fool

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#41)
    by aw on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 06:44:34 AM EST
    Well, ppj, I come from one of the smart states where the average cost per student is more like triple the cost you state. Property taxes are high here, but you know what, it pays off, because this state is also one of the richest. For me, it's worse that we subsidize spending in other states and get less than half back than we put in in federal taxes. But those costs pale in comparison to $10 trillion. You say we can always get more money. How? We're getting it from China now. What other sources are there except requiring working people to hand over huge amounts of their income in taxes in the future. You also say your life is something else (as compared to money). Are you seriously afraid for your life vis-a-vis Mexican immigration? Like I said, bread and circuses. It hasn't changed in 2,000 years. You are a perfect example of that.

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#42)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 06:46:57 AM EST
    If I have to I will move or send my kids to private school, but why should I have to move to accommodate illegal aliens? When I moved to my beautiful neighborhood there was a great school very close, but now the schools are no longer neighborhood schools, because certain neighborhoods are vastly overcrowded with illegals, so the whole system is lumped together and kids are bussed all around.

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#43)
    by soccerdad on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 06:49:53 AM EST
    Ang you know there all illegals how?

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#44)
    by soccerdad on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 06:50:44 AM EST
    BTW thats the same argument people used about blacks and still do in some areas

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#45)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 06:51:20 AM EST
    Dark Avenger - In your case I really don't care because you will disagree no matter what. If you engaged in reading for meeting, you would understand that I'm not disagreeing so much as I'm pointing out that you didn't express clearly who should be kept out in the first place. Your reputation is made And comments like that will give you one for envy and jealousy, not that there's anything wrong with either emotion :).

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#46)
    by aw on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 07:03:21 AM EST
    SD - The point is that in the past the difficulties pushed the individual towards assimilation.
    Have you ever visited Ellis Island? There is a wonderful museum there that documents and illustrates the hardships of immigrants, but also the huge efforts by federal, state, and local governments, as well as volunteer associations to help them assimilate from offering western clothing to women joining their husbands to language classes to public schools efforts to help families fit in and learn American ways. It wasn't just a sink-or-swim situation; they had some help.

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#47)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 07:04:09 AM EST
    SD- you fought the system to get your kid the education he desreved, why shouldn't I do the same?

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#48)
    by soccerdad on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 07:12:13 AM EST
    why shouldn't I do the same?
    You should, depends on exactly what you are advocating and why. If it is clearing out all gangbangers committing illegal activities regardless of their immigration status I'm a 100% behind you. But dont let a real problem expand the scope of your ire to others who may not deserve it. It might be helpful to refrain from generalities. You will less likely to be misunderstood and people will take you much more seriously. I had to learn those principles in order to be effective.

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#49)
    by Johnny on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 07:42:12 AM EST
    Quote from co-worker: "Call me rasisct, but they ruin towns whent hey come." The "I don't care as long as they are legal" is smoke and mirrors. White suburbanite americans are just getting their panties in a twist because they feel their culture is being threatened. Maybe there is soemthing to the whole karma thing-the whites are on top due to massive cultural suppression and annihilation, now they feel threatened by it. Whatta laugh.

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#50)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 08:54:26 AM EST
    As an email floating around on the web says: Why should I have to push 1 for English? Because most people who are offended by that cannot count to two.

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#51)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 08:56:22 AM EST
    Great, we all get to hear what pisses JRT off. Is it my turn yet?

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#52)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 10:52:17 AM EST
    aw - What state do you live in?? The $5K was just a quick round number to demonstrate that illegal aliens devaste a school system. So let's look at CA where the cost is $6,298 per student. The illegal alien's children are costing $12,596, not $10K. Thanks for helping me out. As for your tax back vs tax out, this link will show you as of 2004, Link As for your snarky remark about school spending in my state, I'll just ignore it. After all, no good Leftie can ever make a comment without an insult thrown in.

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#53)
    by aw on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 11:12:19 AM EST
    I'm from NJ. We pay more than any other other state and get the least back. I was off by about 6 cents on the dollar. this is a better link to nj school costs But here we are getting sidetracked again. You haven't answered how we're going to be paying off $10 trillion. And why you're so afraid of Mexicans.

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#54)
    by jondee on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 11:20:51 AM EST
    ppj - The faction whose every cough and fart you've been parroting for the last few years is on the record as being one of the most unremmitingly hostile to the public school system in general in decades, so spare us your phony concern for the fate of the schools; its about as credible as the "social liberalism" that you slip on and off.

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#55)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 11:27:04 AM EST
    As for your snarky remark about school spending in my state, I'll just ignore it. Which, it should be pointed out,is a blue state, where you can live ikn comfort and ease while carrying the burden of representing people of the 'red states', right? Sorry, PPJ, as someone who went to school in California in the mid-60s and remembers how they were back then, it is a sad truth that the funding per student has gone down since Prop 13 was passed, and the schools have suffered for it as a direct result. Of course, things like LA county raising the property tax assesment by 25% in one year didn't help either, but a gentleman named Warren Buffett, who has a bit more acumen as an investor and financial expert than you(or I) has written about the low property tax here in CA vs. NB, you might want to Google for it and look it up. If you're interesting in learning, i.e., more light instead of heat around here that is. TTFN.

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#56)
    by jondee on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 11:54:55 AM EST
    "Snarky remark about school spending in my state." Trans: Break the truth to me gently; better yet, dont break it to me at all.

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#58)
    by Johnny on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 01:36:29 PM EST
    JRT- That is like pigeonholing all whites as money grubbing rasist war mongers who wish nothing more than to destroy the environment on their way to financial bliss and their heavenly reward. Fair enough> BTW, saying my co-worker is right is very enlightening. It really is about your dislike of mexicans, period. Not just illegals. Another BTW, I am pretty sure white folks know where the horn is, and where the volume button is.

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#59)
    by Johnny on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 03:09:43 PM EST
    A. If it is too loud, you are too old. B. If the sound of a horn bothers you, go and say something instead of crying into your computer. It doesn't bother me LOL, then again, I ain't a crotchety old whitey in mortal fear of cultural annihilation. C. Multiple families crowding into homes=biggest problems with schools? How so? I would imagine it is the teachers, curriculum, examples, and goals set forth by the last 100 years of failed complusory education. Just repeat after me: "I hate brown people. I hate brown people. They scare me and I do not know how to deal with it so I complain incessantly. Brown people ruin cities. Brown people go to school with my white children and I am scared they will be influenced by their city wrecking, gang banging, horn honking ways. I am scared my daughter will marry a brown person who doesn't act like an a$$hole republican. I hate brown people." That about cover it? The things on yoru list are nowhere near exclusive to brown people, BTW. You just hate and fear brown people. That is OK, this is America. But don't pee on my leg and tell me it is raining, just say it out loud: "I hate brown people...."

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#60)
    by jondee on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 04:36:41 PM EST
    I have lilly white college kids doing that to me every night and every morning. I'd like to send them on a permanant "spring break in Cancun." I wont even get into the young reptile phys ed majors puking and pissing in my bushes. They could all take civility lessons from the Mexicans in my town.

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#61)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 05:02:32 PM EST
    Dadler - Sorry about that old chum, but you see I happen to think that a war that happened about 160 years ago is kinda beyond "illegal." And yes, if we want them assimilate, then quit with the press 1 for english BS. Since they want to be here I'll let them figure out how to learn to speak it. And since all imigrants must know how to speak english to be granted citizenship, why are we printing ballots in spainish? Maybe the answer is...the Demos want to try and use illegal votes, again. Only this time they have been caught.
    Many of the 50 or so people there were Spanish speakers. Toward the end, a man in the audience asked in Spanish: "I want to help, but I don't have papers." So the guy was telling her he was an illegal alien. The report continues: It was translated and Busby replied: "Everybody can help, yeah, absolutely, you can all help. You don't need papers for voting, you don't need to be a registered voter to help." So the man had just told Busby he didn't have papers (i.e., was "undocumented") and Busby replied that he didn't need papers for voting. It's hard to understand this as anything other than an invitation to voter fraud. At a bare minimum, as Busby's Republican opponent, Brian Bilbray, has noted, she was encouraging illegals to work on her campaign
    What say you Dadler? Can we get a litte outrage about a candidate doing illegal things????

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#62)
    by jondee on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 05:09:11 PM EST
    Except that you're a transparent hypocrite who dosnt have a thing to say when the other side plays wh*re to Cuban ex-patriots in a swing state? Whens b.sline gonna cover that?

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#63)
    by jondee on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 05:16:21 PM EST
    Whens Sweet Home Alabama gonna learn to speak English?

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#64)
    by squeaky on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 05:19:15 PM EST
    ppj- powerline's translation??? sour grapes in advance, or pre-election smear? Francine Busby supports John McCain's position on immigration - stronger enforcement at the border, better support for border agents, and no amnesty. A prelude to Democrat Busby's winning an election in a seriously red district. Ha ha ha ha

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#65)
    by squeaky on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 06:34:12 PM EST
    Here is Busby's response to the mischaracterization of her remarks.
    It was translated and Busby replied: "Everybody can help, yeah, absolutely, you can all help. You don't need papers for voting, you don't need to be a registered voter to help." "I was clarifying the question that was being asked in Spanish and then stated that you do not have to be a registered voter to help the campaign because there were many people who appeared to be to be under 18 in the group who wanted to volunteer," she said in a statement. "I'm not surprised that the Republican Party is making this last-minute, desperate ploy and it is absolutely false."
    link

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#66)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 07:22:41 PM EST
    PPJ, I'm not going to Powerline tonight as my welder's goggles are in the dishwasher. Bad timing, I'm afraid.......

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#67)
    by squeaky on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 07:51:02 PM EST
    ppj- dishonest as ever. You believe that Busby was publically encouraging illegal immigrants to vote illegally? In a neck and neck race in a up 'till now republican stronghold. You obviously finished off the last of the koolaid with that one.

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#68)
    by jondee on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 07:51:32 PM EST
    Powerline flavor. Its the breakfast of chickenhawks.

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#69)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 09:15:01 PM EST
    As someone who has done voter registration in CA, starting when I was but a lad of 26, the notion that someone would engage in publicly painting a target on their backs by declaring that illegal aliens should register to vote or that they would publicly register them to vote is risible to say in the least. In CA, minors, felons, and legal residents can register citizens to vote, I wouldn't be surprised if that was true of illegal aliens as well, although they would obviously have to be volunteers if they would refrain from any law-breaking in this area :). Oh, and I'm no 'expert' on the subject, as an 'ex' means someone who is a has-been, and 'pert' or spirt is what you call a drip under pressure, in a purely Jacksonian sense, of course.

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#70)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 09:28:20 PM EST
    Dark Avenger - There is no accounting for dumb actions. The Demo's standard barrier had several. Happens all the time. Find someone better to defend and you won't look so dumnb. Squeaky - Then follow the link to the Sand Diego paper.
    Busby said she was invited to the forum at the Jocelyn Senior Center in Escondido by the leader of a local soccer league. Many of the 50 or so people there were Spanish speakers. Toward the end, a man in the audience asked in Spanish: "I want to help, but I don't have papers." It was translated and Busby replied: "Everybody can help, yeah, absolutely, you can all help. You don't need papers for voting, you don't need to be a registered voter to help."
    You guys are soooooo easy. BTW - The Powerline post has the audio. Enjoy,

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#71)
    by squeaky on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 09:50:18 PM EST
    ppj- clearly she misspoke. If you believe that her words were intentional and part of her public platform you are from another planet. I understand that your mission here is to spread as much right wing dodo as possible under the guise of respectable debate. Sorry to say your mantle of respectability has dropped down around your ankles on this one.

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#72)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 11:02:13 PM EST
    Dark Avenger - There is no accounting for dumb actions. So that explains some of your otherwise inexplainable posts here? Tell the truth and shame the devil, PPJ, you'll feel much better. The Demo's standard barrier had several. Would it be elitist of me to ask what you meant by that? Happens all the time. Yes, thanks for the demostration below Find someone better to defend and you won't look so dumnb. Physician, heal thyself. If you read for meaning, PPJ, I merely stated that how dumb it would be for her to do without entering any judgement as to her level of stupidity since I don't have the wisdom and insight that allows you to glean all that from a Powerlimp.com blog entry. Don't know how that translates into defending her, but I guess you're too much of an elitist to explain yourself to us commoners who post here. She may well be that stupid, but you can't be happy unless you're blithering over a Demo/Leftist as if they're going to turn America over lock stock and barrel to the illegal immigrants or some other horrible anti-American behavior that your twisted thinking usually comes up with around here. TTFN

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#73)
    by squeaky on Sun Jun 04, 2006 at 08:39:54 AM EST
    From the full context of the discussion, it's clear to me that Ms. Busby was asked if one needed to prove one was a legal voter in order to "help" her campaign -- with the clear implication of volunteering to work for her,not simply vote. She replied that they do not check IDs for volunteers, and anyone was welcome to assist. And under current law, they I do not believe they are required to verify the immigration status of an unpaid volunteer. Whether or not that should be the case, that's the way it is under current law. And whether or not Busby should be held to a higher standard than the legal minimum is another question. Yes, it is possible to interpret the discussion as a solicitation for voter fraud. But it's a hell of a stretch.
    From WizBang via Atrios

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#74)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 04, 2006 at 09:04:40 AM EST
    Squeaky writes:
    ppj- clearly she misspoke. If you believe that her words were intentional and part of her public platform you are from another planet
    . Yes, from the planet of "She said what she said." And no, I don't believe her words were part of her PUBLIC platform. Her message was clear. You can work for me and you can vote for me and the election laws, just like the US immigration laws don't apply. IF she had misspoken, then she could have easily had said: I misspoke. If you are an illegal alien in this country I urge you to return to your own country and I demand that you not work for me or vote for me. Instead we get a bunch of parsing of words. This while thing is shameful and shows were the Left is on it. And the silence of the Left regarding it, and your defense.. and your defense DA, is shameful. How would any US Congress person want to use illegal aliens for any thing? Come on folks, tell me more about the "Climate of Corruption" you like to squawk about. Come on Squeaky, squawk!

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#75)
    by soccerdad on Sun Jun 04, 2006 at 09:10:31 AM EST
    so ppj the supporter of torture, war crimes and racism is lecturing us on some relatively small incident. That is the definition of hypocrisy What also is obvious is that when we talk about the killing of civilians in Iraq he will always say well we're different invoking moral relevancy. But here he tries to equate what are two obviously different events in magnitude. As if we needed more evidence concerning his lack of character and level of dishonesty.

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#76)
    by squeaky on Sun Jun 04, 2006 at 09:12:41 AM EST
    ppj-we'll call you stretch from now on. your intellectual dishonesty has reached a new limit. Not only do you have no idea about Busby's platform, or interest in out what she stands for, but you repeat smears straight from the fetid source of pewerline, frontpage, et al. A liar or plain stupid. Both can be folded into the dishonorable term political hack.

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#77)
    by Edger on Sun Jun 04, 2006 at 09:19:59 AM EST
    In the shuffling madness
    Of the locomotive breath
    Runs the all-time loser
    Headlong to his death
    He feels the piston scraping
    Steam breaking on his brow
    Old charlie stole the handle and
    The train wont stop going
    No way to slow down
    He sees his children jumping off
    At the stations, one by one. --Jethro Tull, Locomotive Breath


    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#78)
    by aw on Sun Jun 04, 2006 at 10:28:49 AM EST
    PPJ still hasn't answered why he's so afraid of Mexicans. $10 trillion in debt to the Chinese is nothing compared to our lives.
    You can always get more money, your life is something else.
    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#79)
    by jondee on Sun Jun 04, 2006 at 10:55:18 AM EST
    Well, everyone knows that they believe that if they die in the act of killing a Shrub shill, they go straight up to Heavan and recieve 72 bottles of cheap tequila and a stiletto. He's got links to prove it.

    Re: Web Users to Patrol Texas Border (none / 0) (#80)
    by Johnny on Sun Jun 04, 2006 at 04:50:52 PM EST
    JRT is a rascist who resorts to swearing. LOL, how in heck do you know if it is brown people wakingyou up when it is dark out? Now youa re grasping at straws hehe. Whatta typical loser whitey

    Web Users to Patrol Texas Border | 79 comments (79 topical)