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RFK's Article on 2004 Ohio Voting Fraud

By Jeralyn, Section Elections
Posted on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 02:32:37 PM EST
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RFK, Jr. was just on CNN discussing his Rolling Stone article alleging that but for voting fraud in Ohio, John Kerry would have won the 2004 election.

How might this fraud have been carried out? One way to steal votes is to tamper with individual ballots -- and there is evidence that Republicans did just that....In addition to altering individual ballots, evidence suggests that Republicans tampered with the software used to tabulate votes.....Election officials in Ohio worked outside the law to avoid hand recounts.

I had a hard time following RFK, Jr. Something is very wrong wth his voice. It shakes terribly while he talks. Is this something new?

John Kerry is not endorsing Kennedy's view. At the time, he said:

''Can I draw a conclusion that they played tough games and clearly had an intent to reduce the level of our vote? Yes, absolutely. Can I tell you to a certainty that it made the difference in the election? I can't. There's no way for me to do that. If I could have done that, then obviously I would have found some legal recourse.''

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    RFK's Article on 2004 Ohio Voting Fraud | 42 comments (42 topical)
    Re: RFK's Article on 2004 Ohio Voting Fraud (none / 0) (#1)
    by Dadler on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 05:15:53 PM EST
    The article is a really concise take on what occurred. It's clear that a series of massive statistical anomalies DIDN'T happen by accident. Kerry needs to stand up for the sanctity of the voting process and stop sitting on the fence. How does HE explain these statistical curiosities, since mere chance has been eliminated?

    Re: RFK's Article on 2004 Ohio Voting Fraud (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 05:26:51 PM EST
    I thought that Wolf was ready to pounce and dismiss this before he even let Kennedy speak. I for one would have rather seen some other investigation source prove/ dis prove these and then have the interview. Wolf seemed to say he reported on the Dem's hearings, but I remember that and he dismissed those as well. And to allow the claim of the GOP shill (Of a bi-partisan commission holding hearings?), and cut off Kennedy when he was responding just left a really scary feeling inside me. If these are true, and they seem valid points to me,(I read the article yesterday) then claiming Orwell was ahead of his time is an understatement. I hope somebody gives this more of a indepth unbiased look. But who am I kidding? God help us

    Re: RFK's Article on 2004 Ohio Voting Fraud (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 05:28:42 PM EST
    PS, I too thought Kennedy's voice was very shaky for the first portion of the segment, but seemed to clear a bit towards the end. Nerves maybe?

    Re: RFK's Article on 2004 Ohio Voting Fraud (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 05:34:07 PM EST
    According to Wikipedia he suffers from "spasmodic dysphonia, a disorder that makes speech difficult and causes the voice to sound quavery and strangled."

    Re: RFK's Article on 2004 Ohio Voting Fraud (none / 0) (#5)
    by Che's Lounge on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 06:10:31 PM EST
    Of course Kerry will disagree. The alternative makes him look pathetic. Besides, if he gave in so easily, then he is not presidential material. Especially given what was at stake in the last election.

    Re: RFK's Article on 2004 Ohio Voting Fraud (none / 0) (#6)
    by aw on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 06:27:49 PM EST
    Later, Wolf said, "We're covering all sides of this issue." You know, balanced, coverage, with the guy on the other side pooh-poohing the charges, instead of agreeing it might be a good idea to take an independent, bipartisan look at what happened. You'd think they expect to be in office forever.

    Re: RFK's Article on 2004 Ohio Voting Fraud (none / 0) (#7)
    by Lora on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 08:19:49 PM EST
    John Kerry lost all my respect when he reneged on his promise to have every vote counted in Ohio. He's done absolutely nothing to win it back. It's about time someone had the guts to talk about the unthinkable - that the very basis of our democracy, the vote, can be so very thoroughly corrupted right under our noses. I'm doubtful that any democrat has the guts to stand with him, or any other that actually speaks the truth now and then, but I keep hoping to be surprised one day. The alternative to fighting electronic and other voting fraud is that the dems won't win as expected in the midterms and they will wail about how they didn't address core values and how exit polling is not really science and how pigs fly and how the earth is flat and nuclear power is safe...

    Re: RFK's Article on 2004 Ohio Voting Fraud (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 09:16:48 PM EST
    Maybe Al Gore has enough guts to initiate an investigation.

    Re: RFK's Article on 2004 Ohio Voting Fraud (none / 0) (#9)
    by squeaky on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 09:35:33 PM EST
    The evidence from exit polls is very convincing. it is more likely that you will find a thousand dollars cash on the street than the likelihood of the gross disparity between votes counted and voter exit poll results ever being a chance event. This is not a problem easily solved. Theoretically the republicans can maintain control indefinitely by various well developed voter cheat systems. From gerrymandering, to rigging the vote count. if it is all under control of a republican operative like Kenneth Blackwell, the game is fixed from the start. The corruption is endemic and not just in ohio and florida.

    Re: RFK's Article on 2004 Ohio Voting Fraud (none / 0) (#10)
    by Aaron on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 10:10:08 PM EST
    The question now becomes will our despotic ruler give up his power in 2008? Somehow I imagine some national emergency, probably a terrorist alert, will prompt George to suspend elections and declare himself emperor for life of the new American Empire. Our constitution will be written by the evangelicals, the oil corporations, and the pharmaceutical companies. We'll all be stripped of our citizenship and declared resident aliens who can be deported or eliminated at the discretion of the president. Only a select group of preapproved individuals will qualify for citizenship in the new imperium, the rest of us will make up a sweeping peasant class who will have all the rights and protections currently enjoyed by the people of Iraq. Doubtless at some point George W. will be forced to send in the Marines to quell dissent by these new unwelcome residents in Dubya Land, as our country will be rechristened. Perhaps after you've been executed for complaining about not having any water, your children will be lucky enough to wind up in a government indoctrination facility where they will be taught proper appreciation for all the things our imperious leader has been gracious enough to provide them with, like the right worship at his feet and the privilege of pledging undying loyalty to God Emperor Bush.

    Re: RFK's Article on 2004 Ohio Voting Fraud (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 10:13:57 PM EST
    Yes RFK's voice is always like that. It sounds like he's really nervous, but that's just how he always is. When was that Kerry quote? I thought he said that was a Kerry quote following the election not in response to RFK's article. There was an illegal conspiracy to defraud voters in so many different ways on a scale never seen before in the 2000 and 04 elections. The Dems are afraid to even touch the voting machine issue because if people lose faith that their vote won't count, they are less likely to vote. It's called Diebold's Paradox.

    Re: RFK's Article on 2004 Ohio Voting Fraud (none / 0) (#12)
    by jondee on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 10:21:13 PM EST
    It fits the Reptilian m.o to a tee. The Watergate burgleries, stealing Carters debate notes, October Suprise and its Iran Contra continuation, Willie H. the boogie man, the cheap porno novel public airing of Clinton; they represent the secular divinties who know better than the rest of us and dont need to pay taxes because they sustain us all simply by existing and if some of the citizenry dosnt realize that yet, well, they'll just have to keep rigging the game until we all realize its for our own good.

    Re: RFK's Article on 2004 Ohio Voting Fraud (none / 0) (#13)
    by Lora on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 10:47:29 PM EST
    sans wrote:
    The Dems are afraid to even touch the voting machine issue because if people lose faith that their vote won't count, they are less likely to vote.
    I've heard that before, but I'm thinking that the Dems say that because they don't really believe that the repubs can, could, and did have all that much power over the elections. If they really believed it they would know it's ridiculous to say, because people's votes WON'T count unless the e-voting machines are scrapped.

    Re: RFK's Article on 2004 Ohio Voting Fraud (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 11:12:27 PM EST
    They might not be very vocal about it, but many are working to fix the problem. HR 550 already has over 170 cosponsors. Mostly Dems but several Republicans also. More on it here. The bottom-line, common-sense intent of HR550 is to require voter-verified paper records, and insist on random manual audits in all the States, so that all voters can have confidence our votes will be counted as cast. Please help by telling Congress to Pass HR 550!

    Re: RFK's Article on 2004 Ohio Voting Fraud (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 11:25:54 PM EST
    sans-coulotte, the quote was from the time of the 2004 election, not in response to Kennedy's new article. Thanks for answering about his voice.

    Re: RFK's Article on 2004 Ohio Voting Fraud (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 12:13:07 AM EST
    Thanks. That's what I thought. There's some more video from RFK jr here... A Kennedy Fuels Autism Debate Rolling Stone: Deadly Immunity Robert F. Kennedy Jr. investigates the government cover-up of a mercury/autism scandal

    Re: RFK's Article on 2004 Ohio Voting Fraud (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 01:00:13 AM EST
    jnfr mentioned the disease affecting RFK Jr.'s voice:
    "spasmodic dysphonia, a disorder that makes speech difficult and causes the voice to sound quavery and strangled."
    It's the same disorder affecting NPR's Diane Rehm's voice, which she has discussed in detail on her program over the years. There's a blog where people have posted more details about the problem.
    It sounds like he's really nervous, but that's just how he always is.
    His voice is not that way because he is "nervous" per se. His voice "always is" (or sounds) that way due to the ways the disorder constricts and otherwise affects vocal muscles in the larynx. [Just realized that my comments on the article place in another entry might be more pertinently placed here. It's the thread about Helen Thomas, where Squeaky posted the link to the RFK Jr. Rolling Stone article.]

    Re: RFK's Article on 2004 Ohio Voting Fraud (none / 0) (#18)
    by aw on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 08:41:04 AM EST
    In Georgia they said it was expensive to get...
    Making it expensive and difficult was the point.

    Re: RFK's Article on 2004 Ohio Voting Fraud (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 09:32:20 AM EST
    Al Gore and Robert Kennedy Jr. both spoke at the Sierra Club gathering last fall in San Fran. While Kennedy's voice was a little distracting, it was as good as Al's and both received thunderous applause. He does not seem to be interested in politics, just fighting for what Jack and his father wanted, a better America for all of its' citizens.

    Re: RFK's Article on 2004 Ohio Voting Fraud (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 09:33:57 AM EST
    oops, I meant Kennedy's speech was as good as Al's.

    Re: RFK's Article on 2004 Ohio Voting Fraud (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 10:35:21 AM EST
    I've got to laugh at those who still believe that the exit polls are more accurate than the real one. As I wrote back in November:
    Last time the Democrats lost by a couple hundred votes down in Florida, I know because I sat up all night hoping Gore won. In Ohio it was about 100,000. This time I was not hoping the Democrats won. Why? They have become a party of losers, that's why.
    I used the Norwegian election in September 2005 to demonstrate this fallacy. The most conservative party in Norway, the Progressive Party (no, I'm not kidding, that's what it's called), got totally shafted in the exit polls. For a country that has 9 major political parties, that this party's results in the exit polls was underestimated by 2.2-4.6% represents a failure by exit pollsters to get a representative poll. In contrast, the Socialist Left party was overestimated by 1.1-2.1%. The Conservative Party, a center-right party, was overestimated by 0.9-2.4%. The Progressive Party is the party that is most hounded by the media, and represent the Republicans of Norway. Just a mere coincidence that they, like Republicans in the USA, got shafted in the exit polls? Or is there perhaps some logical explanation for this phenomenon? No, I guess Bush and the Republicans went to Norway and stole votes for the Progressive Party. Yup, that's what RFK would have to conclude anyways. Get a life.

    Re: RFK's Article on 2004 Ohio Voting Fraud (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 11:00:19 AM EST
    On the allegations of vote fraud in Ohio in 2004: I remember during election night, that the national news media was reporting that people were waiting up to or more than five hours to vote in Ohio. I thought to myself: "That sure is strange. Nothing like that ever happens where I live. Is it simply that more people came out to vote this year and the precincts were overwhelmed?" Now, in retrospect, I've read the article by Kennedy about the stolen vote. We learn that precincts with predominantly conservative leaning voters had an average wait time of less an 30 minutes, and that precincts with liberal leaning voters had wait times of several hours. We learn that the numbers of voting machines and equipments for the liberal leaning districts had been reduced since 2000. The numbers of voting machines in conservative leaning districts had been increased since 2000. So, the phenomenon appears to have been an intentional ploy to reduce the liberal leaning vote, by waiting them out. And, if they were doing that, the many other irregularities reported in the article are of the same kind. Perhaps, the next time that the exit polls indicate one thing and the so called actual count indicates another, we'll need an Orange Revolution. And, for those who think of "fairness" in any sense, that would mean that Justices Roberts and Alito have been illegitimately appointed to the USSCourt.

    Re: RFK's Article on 2004 Ohio Voting Fraud (none / 0) (#23)
    by Lora on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 11:02:46 AM EST
    New technology can allow voting fraud on a massive scale hitherto unknown. As few as 6 votes flipped per voting machine in Ohio could have flipped the entire national election. "Random audits" in Ohio 2004 were a complete joke. E-vote fraud, combined with purging of registration lists, voter suppression and intimidation, breakdowns and not enough equipment, dirty "audits," legal loopholes to avoid actually counting all the paper ballots, and other dirty tricks can easily render HR 550 meaningless, and a GOP victory is assured. The ONLY way we can assure a fair, honest, and open election is by paper ballots, hand-counting, and full transparency.

    Re: RFK's Article on 2004 Ohio Voting Fraud (none / 0) (#25)
    by Andreas on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 11:14:33 AM EST
    In November 2004 the WSWS wrote:
    At best, a case can be made that Bush actually lost Ohio ... leaving him an Electoral College loser but a winner of the popular vote, with a majority of over three million. Under those conditions, to declare that John Kerry should rightfully be installed in the White House would be a political travesty. In our view, those who seek to center their political assessment of the 2004 elections on charges of fraud are clutching at straws. We have no reason to question the sincerity of their opposition to the Bush administration. But they are shying away from the bitter truth: a majority of those Americans who voted in the November 2 election cast ballots for George W. Bush. This included tens of millions of working people. The task of opponents of Bush's policies of imperialist war and reaction is to conduct a serious political autopsy of this event, which represents, above all, a colossal political failure of the Democratic Party. ... The Democratic Party contrived to lose the presidential election to a man who, in addition to waging an unpopular war, alienating the vast majority of the people of the world, and presiding over the weakest four-year period of job growth since the Great Depression, is perhaps the most ignorant and intellectually limited individual to occupy the White House in nearly a century. Bush won reelection, not because of a charismatic personality or mass support for his party and program, but because the so-called opposition party essentially defaulted.
    Allegations of vote fraud in Ohio, Florida: Was the 2004 presidential election stolen? By the Editorial Board of the WSWS, 24 November 2004

    Re: RFK's Article on 2004 Ohio Voting Fraud (none / 0) (#26)
    by jondee on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 12:21:53 PM EST
    Andreas - Theres not a few bitter truths in there. The fact is, both parties have pretty much completely sold out the working class; the Dems just slightly less than the Reptiles, but the Reps unremmiting playing to the pie-and-Rapture-in-the-sky base outweighed the Dems qualified support of unions etc.

    Re: RFK's Article on 2004 Ohio Voting Fraud (none / 0) (#27)
    by Dadler on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 12:50:09 PM EST
    Seixon, Read the article by RFK Jr. and respond to it. That's what the thread is about. It is HEAVILY footnoted (which for a commercial periodical is unheard of) and deserves your time. It is a great starting point if you really want to do the hard work of understanding what happened in Ohio in 2004. Unless you're clairvoyant and don't need to do your homework.

    Re: RFK's Article on 2004 Ohio Voting Fraud (none / 0) (#28)
    by jondee on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 01:31:05 PM EST
    I remember Seixon. He IS clairvoyant; just like every other "regime change" true believer. Any and every means- including doing absolutely anything and everything to ensure Shrubco's agenda goes forth- is justified by their fantasied ends.

    Re: RFK's Article on 2004 Ohio Voting Fraud (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 07:37:21 PM EST
    Jondee, Bring it. Don't talk smack if you can't bring it. Clinton and Kerry and all of them were talking regime-change too. Forget about that? Yeah, you been duped my friend. Dadler, Look, anyone who says that an election was stolen because the exit polls showed a different story is a crazy person. I know how these things go. They attribute everything as being "mysterious" and "odd" even though there is a logical explanation for everything. Typical conspiracy theory BS. Yes, it seems liberal precincts had longer waiting times. You want to know why? Because those are urban, and apparently run by Democrats who don't know how to plan an election event. Look at a map of the USA and see who voted most Democrat - urban centers. Where do you expect longer waiting times? In urban centers. Wow, look at that, a logical explanation for something. How strange! If that simple fact didn't make it into RFK's article, then I'm afraid he's nothing more than a two-bit political hack doing a dance on behalf of his politically connected family. When I get the time, I will read RFK's entire article.

    Re: RFK's Article on 2004 Ohio Voting Fraud (none / 0) (#30)
    by squeaky on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 07:44:35 PM EST
    Seixon-
    then I'm afraid he's nothing more than a two-bit political hack doing a dance on behalf of his.....
    And on whose behalf are you dancing for?

    Re: RFK's Article on 2004 Ohio Voting Fraud (none / 0) (#31)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 07:46:49 PM EST
    Dadler, I guess you can start by reading something from within your own sphere of influence to see that RFK is all washed up, just like I said. I heard RFK's spiel a while ago, and all of it was BS. Here's a Salon.com article that says the same thing. Enjoy.

    Re: RFK's Article on 2004 Ohio Voting Fraud (none / 0) (#32)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 07:48:29 PM EST
    I'm doing a dance am I? What am I doing? Challenging RFK the liberal hero? Oh noes! RFK is full of it, get a clue. I dance for the Truth and against partisan hacks. RFK is one such hack.

    Re: RFK's Article on 2004 Ohio Voting Fraud (none / 0) (#33)
    by squeaky on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 07:54:35 PM EST
    Seixon-
    I dance for the Truth and against partisan hacks
    Yeah, and your dance partner is LGF. Real swingers you two are.

    Re: RFK's Article on 2004 Ohio Voting Fraud (none / 0) (#34)
    by jondee on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 08:03:00 PM EST
    Truth with a capital T no less. Just like Pat, Jerry, Dobson, the Greater Israel Army'a God and all the other queer bashin, flag dousin, public school closin, mooslim convertin ones who've seen the way the truth and the light.

    Re: RFK's Article on 2004 Ohio Voting Fraud (none / 0) (#35)
    by Edger on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 08:07:58 PM EST
    seixon: Look, anyone who says that an election was stolen because the exit polls showed a different story is a crazy person. I know how these things go... Typical conspiracy theory BS. Analysis of an Electronic Voting System [.PDF] Johns Hopkins University Information Security Institute Technical Report TR-2003-19, July 23, 2003. We discovered significant and wide-reaching security vulnerabilities in the version of the [Diebold] AccuVote-TS voting terminal found in [9] (see Table 1). Most notably, voters can easily program their own smartcards to simulate the behavior of valid smartcards used in the election. With such homebrew cards, a voter can cast multiple ballots without leaving any trace. A voter can also perform actions that normally require administrative privileges, including viewing partial results and terminating the election early. We identify several problems... We conclude that this voting system is unsuitable for use in a general election. Saturday, November 6, 2004: Election night... I was startled to hear the reporter detail how Karen Hughes had earlier sat George W. Bush down to inform him that he'd lost the election. The exit polls were clear: Kerry was winning in a landslide. "Bush took the news stoically," noted the AP report. But then the computers reported something different. In several pivotal states. "Exit Polls are almost never wrong," Dick Morris wrote. He added: "So, according to ABC-TVs exit polls, for example, Kerry was slated to carry Florida, Ohio, New Mexico, Colorado, Nevada, and Iowa, all of which Bush carried. The only swing state the network had going to Bush was West Virginia, which the president won by 10 points." Yet a few hours after the exit polls were showing a clear Kerry sweep, as the computerized vote numbers began to come in from the various states the election was called for Bush.

    Re: RFK's Article on 2004 Ohio Voting Fraud (none / 0) (#36)
    by jondee on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 08:13:18 PM EST
    It dosnt matter to people that already have "the Truth" how many articles they read. Once you have the Truth thats all that matters.

    Re: RFK's Article on 2004 Ohio Voting Fraud (none / 0) (#37)
    by Edger on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 08:21:28 PM EST
    Jondee... yes. I was holding out some hope though. Ahhh, well...

    Re: RFK's Article on 2004 Ohio Voting Fraud (none / 0) (#38)
    by roger on Sun Jun 04, 2006 at 04:52:37 AM EST
    I was a poll watcher in the last election. Somehow, a great number of college students had been re-registered in their hometowns (far from the school they were attending) days before the election. They were very surprised, and many called home to find out what had happened. Apparently, all leftie students had their voter registration switched, so that they could not vote. This after waiting 5 hours in line! The local poll workers also just turned them away, without letting them fill out the "other" (problematic) voting forms. Sure, tell me how honest the Repubs are, I have a bridge for you

    Re: RFK's Article on 2004 Ohio Voting Fraud (none / 0) (#39)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jun 04, 2006 at 05:30:14 AM EST
    Seixon, how did Bush feel about exit polls in another country not matching? He praised the winner of the exit polls finally being sworn in as "democracy's victory".

    Re: RFK's Article on 2004 Ohio Voting Fraud (none / 0) (#40)
    by Dadler on Sun Jun 04, 2006 at 09:53:01 AM EST
    Seixson, Can't get to your Salon link. But whether RFK Jr. is "all washed up", whatever that means, the heavily footnoted facts laid out in his Rolling Stone piece certainly deserve to be read and seriously considered. If you want to refute them point by point, that'd be great. And your point about those crazy exit poles is just not the truth. As debbiehamil just linked, why would Bush use exit poll irregularity, much less profound than that in Ohio, to charge election fraud in another country if worrying about such skewed exit polls here is crazy? W-H-Y? It seems crazier to simply toss off the poll irregularity, does it not? Or is what we demand of other nations not what we demand of ourselves? Peace, my fellow free American.

    Re: RFK's Article on 2004 Ohio Voting Fraud (none / 0) (#41)
    by Dadler on Sun Jun 04, 2006 at 10:06:45 AM EST
    Add Seixon, I'm going to guess the linked Salon piece was about RFK's much more controversial Thimerosal/mercury/autism stuff from last year. If that keeps you from looking at his Ohio '04 piece (which, again, is heavily footnoted) that's fine, but I don't think you can make any informed comments on it other than you disagreed strongly with another of RFK's pieces and therefore won't read this one.

    Re: RFK's Article on 2004 Ohio Voting Fraud (none / 0) (#42)
    by squeaky on Tue Jun 20, 2006 at 01:45:15 PM EST
    More news on the RFK voter fraud article. Lawsuits are next.
    PRWeek: Is there a next step? Kennedy: I've been meeting with attorneys... to devise a litigation strategy. And I would say that very soon we'll be announcing lawsuits against some of the individuals and companies involved.... PRWeek: The election is over. Is it too late now? Kennedy: There's another election soon. And as theĀ Times [just] reported, the same people are up to the same shenanigans.
    link via HuffPo

    Re: RFK's Article on 2004 Ohio Voting Fraud (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 03:01:37 PM EST
    by the way, have you seen how happy Bush looks in some recent photos:

    RFK's Article on 2004 Ohio Voting Fraud | 42 comments (42 topical)