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Sunday Open Thread

I'm about to begin the drive home from Aspen to Denver (a three -plus hour treat of goregous scenery), after which I am going to work on assembling and posting the best of the hundreds of photos I and others took while out at Hunter Thompson's Owl Farm yesterday.

The speakers were top-notch, we all learned some good trial tactics, the comraderie was terrific and the meals unbeatable. The person who impressed me the most was Anita Thompson.

So, while I relish the wonderful five days I just spent here in Aspen during the drive home, here's a place for you to talk about whatever else is going on. I'll be back in time for the final Soprano's Open Thread of the season.

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    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jun 04, 2006 at 01:02:35 PM EST
    It's simply amazing how the entire left side of the blogosphere is studiously ignoring the news about the terror raids - London and Toronto, with links to people in Georgia.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#2)
    by soccerdad on Sun Jun 04, 2006 at 01:13:24 PM EST
    Thank you for bring us today's RNC talking point thats making its way around the wingnut blogosphere. I hope that the right wing also sees that these people were caught without the benefit of an invasion of a non-involved country. Frankly I think the US has bigger issues to deal with. Its like I'd rather watch the new england patriots than the toronto agronauts or whatever they're called.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#3)
    by soccerdad on Sun Jun 04, 2006 at 01:18:31 PM EST
    The BBC reports this afternoon that the Iraqi government has officially rejected the Pentagon's investigation into the Ishaqi killings. Excerpt: The Iraqi government has rejected the findings of a US military investigation into the deaths of 11 civilians in the village of Ishaqi, north of Baghdad.A spokesman for Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri Maliki said the report, which cleared the US soldiers of wrongdoing, was unfair. The government will demand an apology and compensation, the spokesman said. Visit Chris Floyd's website and read the entire post.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#4)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 04, 2006 at 01:24:13 PM EST
    JRT - It is also amaazing how the story of the Demo candidate in San Diego (for Congress) telling the illegal aliens to vote for her is also being ignored.
    It was translated and Busby replied: "Everybody can help, yeah, absolutely, you can all help. You don't need papers for voting, you don't need to be a registered voter to help." Bilbray said at worst, Busby was encouraging someone to vote illegally. At best, she was encouraging someone who is illegally in the country to work on her campaign. "She's soliciting illegal aliens to campaign for her and it's on tape - this isn't exactly what you call the pinnacle of ethical campaign strategy," Bilbray said. "I don't know how she shows her face."
    Link to San Diego Union-Tribune Both these stories prove what Kevin Drum was saying in The Washington Monthly.
    So what is it that Beinart really wants from antiwar liberals? .... we need to engage more energetically with the war on terror and criticize illiberal regimes more harshly. ....I think Beinart is exactly right. For example, should I be more vocal in denouncing Iran? Sure. ..... Of course I should speak out against them. ...I know perfectly well that criticism of Iran is not just criticism of Iran. ..... it also provides support for the Bush administration's determined and deliberate effort to whip up enthusiasm for a military strike. .. So what to do? For the most part, I end up saying very little. And Beinart is right: there's a sense in which that betrays my own liberal ideals. But he's also wrong, because like it or not, my words -- and those of other liberals -- would end up being used to advance George Bush's distinctly illiberal ends. And I'm simply not willing to be a pawn in the Bush administration's latest marketing campaign.
    So there you go. It isn't about the safety of the country, but about politics. Why am I not surprised??

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#5)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 04, 2006 at 01:25:49 PM EST
    SD quotes:
    The government will demand an apology and compensation, the spokesman said.
    Translation. The government knows we are right but must do something to save face.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#7)
    by jondee on Sun Jun 04, 2006 at 01:30:32 PM EST
    So there you go. Maybe its not "about politics" but about trying to prevent tens-of-thousands of more people from getting killed and maimed. Not that that kind of thing registers with a certain shrub dwelling bird species.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jun 04, 2006 at 01:33:31 PM EST
    "It's simply amazing how the entire left side of the blogosphere is studiously ignoring the news about the terror raids" Perhaps because the left rarely engages in speculation, thereby allowing law enforcement to do their job, leaving the hysteria, ill-formed opinions and rank pontifications to the right blogosphere, something the right seems particularly good at. Besides, buying fertilizer? Pulease. Should I turn in my neighbor who just bought 1.5 tons of horse manure? Here is a hint for the wingnuts. Ammonium nitrate does not explode by itself. Get it?

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#9)
    by jondee on Sun Jun 04, 2006 at 01:34:24 PM EST
    Of course its always just "about politics" when you're a shrub shill.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#10)
    by soccerdad on Sun Jun 04, 2006 at 01:49:00 PM EST
    Translation. The government knows we are right but must do something to save face.
    Source: Translations for the terminally stupid and dishonest. Published by the RNC. Only ppj could try an magnify a speck into a dog while ignoring the elephants in the room.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#11)
    by soccerdad on Sun Jun 04, 2006 at 01:50:34 PM EST
    It isn't about the safety of the country, but about politics.
    Meanwhile the politics by the right wing fanatics lead to death in africa

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jun 04, 2006 at 01:53:17 PM EST
    Maybe the lefties are ignoring it because it doesn't have any relevance to anything important. Remember even though the McVeigh group was successful we didn't have to start a preemptive war, take away citizens rights, turn into a facist dictatorship or anything like we have now. The Toronto incident even if proven true seems like a McVeigh incident in the making.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#13)
    by Dadler on Sun Jun 04, 2006 at 01:54:11 PM EST
    Jim, Have to disagree with you about what Busby meant. First off, here's is the guy's question to her as reported in the paper: Toward the end, a man in the audience asked in Spanish: "I want to help, but I don't have papers." Now, it's not even clear what the man meant, and her reply was directed at his "help". That was the majority of what she said, and her intent. Needless to say, a bad slip of the tongue PR-wise. But, in this case, it's sound and fury signifying nothing but Cunningham's longtime GOP seat is going to be taken by the Dems, and rightfully -- Bilbray, her opponent, is tied to Cunningham and the completely corrupt political status quo. Unless, after genuinely looking at Busby, the voters really think she's telling all the illegals to come out and vote for her. Which I highly doubt. Now, with all the lip-slips you forgive Bush for -- ones which are born of ignorance and result in much more damage, like, say, his "Crusade" remark about the WOT -- this hardly merits your selective outrage. And until the U.S. stops meddling and trying to influence foreign elections (where, strangely, Bush will cite exit poll irregularity as a factor to discredit a result -- but not against himself in Ohio), I couldn't give a rat's ace if an undocumented immigrant wants to work on a candidate's campaign.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#14)
    by aw on Sun Jun 04, 2006 at 02:03:27 PM EST
    It sounds like there was reason to spy on them. They were monitoring fundamentalist sites, which we know they do here. It doesn't mean it's the same as the NSA gathering data on everyone.
    The chain of events began two years ago, sparked by local teenagers roving through Internet sites, reading and espousing anti-Western sentiments and vowing to attack at home, in the name of oppressed Muslims here and abroad.
    Toronto Star

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#15)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 04, 2006 at 02:07:47 PM EST
    Dadler writes:
    Toward the end, a man in the audience asked in Spanish: "I want to help, but I don't have papers." Now, it's not even clear what the man meant,
    Dadler. That is an insulting remark, and if you believe you must be as dumb as you think what those who read your comment are. Let us see. An hispanic man, in San Diego, speaking in Spainish says:
    ....but I don't have papers."
    Dadler, even for a Left winger making excuses that is a new low. And to expand on her meaning, let us consider what she could have said to clarify her meaning: I misspoke myself. Let me be clear. If you are an illegal alien, please return to your country. You are not authorized to work on my behalf, and do not further violate US law by voting illegally. But she didn't. She meant what she said, she just didn't think she would get caught.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#16)
    by aw on Sun Jun 04, 2006 at 02:13:26 PM EST
    Kevin Drum is way too wishy-washy for me, but I can tell you, PPJ, he wouldn't agree with you in a million years.
    ...I know perfectly well that criticism of Iran is not just criticism of Iran. ..... it also provides support for the Bush administration's determined and deliberate effort to whip up enthusiasm for a military strike. ..
    What he's saying is criticism of Iran doesn't mean we should go to war with them, but people like you treat such criticism as raw meat. You want everyone to join you in whipping up enthusiasm for another war. Not gonna happen. It's not about the safety. WATB

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#17)
    by jondee on Sun Jun 04, 2006 at 02:53:22 PM EST
    Meanwhile the WWF of network news Fox, grabs a shovel to see if they can sink further into the nether regions of credibility, by allowing Falafel O'Reilly to slander and lie about U.S WWII servicemen murdering nazis in a stupid, ham-handed, attempt to trivialize what occured at Haditha and demonize the victims.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#18)
    by jondee on Sun Jun 04, 2006 at 02:57:35 PM EST
    Amazing how the entire right side of the blogosphere studiously ignored it.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#19)
    by jimcee on Sun Jun 04, 2006 at 02:59:42 PM EST
    Jade, No nothing important at all. Just a group of Muslims with three tons of amonium nitrate and the ability to turn it into an explosive, just add deisel fuel and a detonater. Hey it is not important at all if many innocent people are murdered in Toronto. After all they are just Canadians. Nope everything that is bad in the world pales compared to the evil that is the US. Ah Islam, the religion of peace. Oh and it is all Bush's fault that these fine young men were attempting mass murder. The excuse-making for Islamic terrorism from the Left is downright goofy. Oh by the way the CSIS (Canada's version of the CIA) used exactly the type of internet monitoring that the NSA uses that set folks like you into some fantasmagoric frothing over lost civil liberties. If it is good enough for the Canadians and the Europeans then why is it so bad for the US? I thought the Left liked the idea that the US should consider foreign law when writing our own laws?

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#20)
    by jimcee on Sun Jun 04, 2006 at 03:08:54 PM EST
    Jondee actually US troops in WW2 did commit atrocities. So did the Japanese, Nazis, Italian Fascistas. As a matter of fact every war has its atrocities, just ask the Bosnian Muslims. The US is attempting to bring this case to courts-martial unlike say, er, Saddam who thought this kind of behavior was just how you keep the peeps in line. But I know, I know Bushco is so much worse than Saddam ever was.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#21)
    by jondee on Sun Jun 04, 2006 at 03:24:57 PM EST
    Jimcee - Quit while you're behind. O'Lielly described a specific incident at Malmedy that never occurred. That simple. Of course, if you wanna keep playing B.B and help Falafel dig you both into a hole, be my guest. Btw, why is it that when the IRA blows something up you guys dont say " Ah Catholicism, the religion of peace"?

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#22)
    by jondee on Sun Jun 04, 2006 at 03:28:32 PM EST
    Btw B.B, I dont think Bush "is worse than Saddam" I just think he's an immoral moron and I dont want an immooral moron as President. That okay with you?

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#23)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jun 04, 2006 at 03:50:07 PM EST
    First off, O'Reilly isn't a conservative - he's a bloviating populist wannabee. Second, the Toronto terrorist thing is actual news - it's not some idiot statement over something that happened over 60 years ago. Third, the fact is, the left sites speculate all the time - witness all the posts about what the Libby trial means, and where it will supposedly lead. Last time I looked, he was innocent until proven guilty, just like the alleged terrorists in Toronto. Libby is worth of a massive spill of ink and pixels, the terror takedown - silence. It's not a matter of not speculating. It's more like clamping your hands over your eyes and ears and refusing to see. Canada isn't in Iraq, they have a very liberal asylum policy. What exactly did they do to desrve Islamist terror?

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#24)
    by squeaky on Sun Jun 04, 2006 at 03:53:00 PM EST
    JR & jimcee-
    It's simply amazing how the entire left side of the blogosphere is studiously ignoring the news about the terror raids - London and Toronto, with links to people in Georgia.
    Good to see that you are keeping up with your lefty reading. You wanna tell us where you did not find that report, or are you just making up sh*t again. As far as something a little closer to home have you seen this?
    NASHVILLE -- FBI hazardous material experts searched a home where police found pipe bombs and a jar containing the potentially deadly poison ricin, federal agents said Friday.
    link Guess not. Too white? Just some good ol' boy havin' fun?

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#25)
    by squeaky on Sun Jun 04, 2006 at 03:59:53 PM EST
    Also it maybe that the lefties do not have a bedwetter brigade. You guys always need excuses to justify your soiled sheets and, how could I forget, the WOT.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jun 04, 2006 at 04:07:28 PM EST
    "Btw, why is it that when the IRA blows something up you guys dont say " Ah Catholicism, the religion of peace"?" or, when a religious group is "involved" with blowing up an abortion clinic it is never, "Baptists, the religion of peace"? Good one. Squeaky, The bedwetters all pissed their pants and "everything changed". Now they spend all their time trying to convince themselves that it was OK, cause the terrorists are big and bad.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#27)
    by squeaky on Sun Jun 04, 2006 at 04:20:54 PM EST
    Colbert gave a speech at Knox College in Galesburg, Ill. on Saturday. His solution to securing the borders:
    His suggestions for securing the U.S.-Mexico border went beyond walls to include moats, fiery moats and fiery moats with fire-proof crocodiles. He added that the border with Canada also has to be secure so Canadians cannot bring their "skunky beer" into the country. He backed English as the official language of the United States -- "God wrote (the Bible) in English for a reason: So it could be taught in our public schools."
    If you like Colbert there is more from E & P via W & P

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#28)
    by soccerdad on Sun Jun 04, 2006 at 04:21:14 PM EST
    so why did the treasury stop publishing the M3 which tells how much US currency is in circulation?

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#29)
    by squeaky on Sun Jun 04, 2006 at 04:30:20 PM EST
    sd-
       Who is crazy enough to increase their dollar-holdings when most analysts are predicting a loss in value?
    Must be the Saudi's. Venezuela has offered to sell us oil at the fixed price of $50/barrel. Bush nixed it because Venezuela will not reinvest the profits back into US treasuries. Also Bush does not do buisness with commie terrorists supporting nations, only terrorists supporting nations.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#30)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 04, 2006 at 06:39:27 PM EST
    Sky-Ho writes:
    Perhaps because the left rarely engages in speculation, thereby allowing law enforcement to do their job
    Really? I mean you didn't see all the whoopie over Leopold, et al and Rove? I mean, you are one funny dude. aw - Drum said what he said, and he meant. No problem. His right. But it perfectly describes the position of the Left. Iran Bad. Don't tell anybody because it will help Bush. Jondee - You can have anybody you can elect as President. Sky-Ho and Squeaky - Which one of you guys actually served???

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#31)
    by jondee on Sun Jun 04, 2006 at 06:47:58 PM EST
    No I can have anybody I can scare up $250 mil for. Who, or should I say what, are you guys going to run next? At the rate you're going you'll be running Koko the gorilla (she wants prayer back in our schools) or a '53 Studabaker for president.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#32)
    by Dadler on Sun Jun 04, 2006 at 06:49:07 PM EST
    Jim, The quote from the man speaks for itself. He says he wants to help and Busby says he don't have to have papers to help. If you think he's standing up to ask how he can vote illegally, when he says clearly he wants to "help", then cling to that belief by all means. I fully admitted it was a bad thing to slip the tongue on, but I don't view Busby as anything approaching the villain you do. I've seen her around town. Heard her plenty of times. If what what you believe about her were actually true, that she wants illegals to stuff the boxes for her, then I doubt she'd be anywhere near this race, since the district has long been a Repub bastion. Now, answer the difficult part of the question I posed to you -- you forgive every dipsh*t slip Bush makes, from "Crusade" to "Bring 'em on" to "Mission Accomplished" to whatever, and those have caused much more damage to our nation's credibility and ability to be effective abroad, and here you are outraged to the gills about something much less serious. If you had at least on occasion admitted that Dubya's lame tongue has resulted in awfully counterproductive and harmfully formed sentences, then maybe I could take your outrage more seriously. And I love your version of how she should have clarified her mis-statement, especially in that it would require another human being to make it possible. Have a good one, Kenny Rogers.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#33)
    by squeaky on Sun Jun 04, 2006 at 06:49:54 PM EST
    ppj
    Sky-Ho and Squeaky - Which one of you guys actually served???
    You mean served burgers at Aviation like you??? Why, prey tell, do you ask?

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#34)
    by jondee on Sun Jun 04, 2006 at 08:29:29 PM EST
    J.R - "First off O'Relly isnt a conservative." What positions does he take that put him at odds with conservatives? Thats what I thought.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#35)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 04, 2006 at 09:11:18 PM EST
    Dadler - For God's sake quit defending that position. I have too much respect for you for it to not make me angry. 1. The individual says he doesn't have papers. 2. If Busby doesn't know that means he is illegal she is too stupid to be a Congress person. And yes, that is low. 3. And she then says:
    You don't need papers for voting, you don't need to be a registered voter to help."
    4. Who gives a flip what Bush did or didn't say? At the very least he didn't tell an illegal alien to vote for him. Come on Dadler, you're better than what the Left is doing to you. Squeaky - If you don't understand the question the answer is no. And that is NO surprise. Jondee - Quit complaing. Hollygoode can raise that in a heart beat.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#36)
    by aw on Sun Jun 04, 2006 at 09:47:34 PM EST
    Come on Dadler, you're better than what the Left is doing to you.
    Wow. Wonder what that means?

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#37)
    by jondee on Sun Jun 04, 2006 at 10:13:16 PM EST
    ppj - Dadlers point - which he would make more diplomatically then I'll bother too - is that all you tell us when you so transparently attempt to focus everyones attention on this ambiguous incident while for the last three years trying to spin Bush, Delay, et al's every idiotic utterence, cough, and belch into gold is that your constant and glaringly obvious partisan hackery went from feigned concern for the preservation of deceny and ethics to a passive-aggressive annoyance so long ago that any credibility you ever had mouldered in the grave a long time ago. All thats left is the smell.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#38)
    by squeaky on Sun Jun 04, 2006 at 10:29:00 PM EST
    Juan Cole posts more of Khamenei's speech than you will find anywhere else.
    For some strange reason, a relatively full text of important speeches given by world leaders is almost never provided to the public by any US media in English. I doubt there are even a handful of speeches easily accessible in English by Spanish President Zapatero, e.g. I cannot entirely explain this strange phenomenon, of the coccooned and almost deliberately ignorant approach to the world of the US corporate media and their audience. The odd thing is that the American public pays tax dollars so that the Open Source Center of the USG can translate such primary texts. They are, however, not made freely available,
    Worth a read, at the very least to balance out the WH rhetoric with Khamenei's rhetoric. link

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#39)
    by Johnny on Mon Jun 05, 2006 at 02:46:33 AM EST
    Albert Pujols is out with a sore back. Not good. Chavez' interesting blend of socialism is still working, despite the BushCo attempt to kidnap him and replace him with an approved successor-BushCo, bringing democracy to the world! A co-worker asked me why the "liberals can't get a successful talk show going"... I told him we really don't need some invisible man feeding us our ideas. He had the typical wrong-winger response: "Bullsh!t. Nobody wants to listen to radicals, that's why." What he missed of course, is that radical extends to both sides of the aisle. Umm.... Birthday today, gonna go catch some catfish for dinner (but due to pollutionary businesses which are dry humped by politicians in this country), I will limit my intake of fresh, wild-caught fish. Who could ever imagine that fresh, wild caught fish can give you heavy metal poisoning? talk about getting people over a barrel-poison the wild food supply, and we are forced to purchase from strange sources...

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#40)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jun 05, 2006 at 06:26:33 AM EST
    Squeaky - I read were Cole isn't gonna be a Yalie, so his blogging time won't be cut. Jondee - As usual your comment is just an attack with no back up, and totally wrong. Dadler's comments were a defense of Busby followed by an attempt to change the subject. Won't work because her comments are on tape and her explanations are mere attempts to parse because she is afraid to tell the illegals to go home, not work for her and don't violate more of our laws by voting for her. aw - Let me explain. "Make you look foolish."

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#41)
    by jimcee on Mon Jun 05, 2006 at 06:51:59 AM EST
    Ah, Jondee, yes Malmady did happen but it doesn't surprise me that you would defend the Nazi SS. You might want to try to read up on some WW2 history as I'm sure there is a Little Big Book with lots of pictures for you to reference. Squeaky, I have never supported the IRA ever so if you care to find me a reference I've made about them please enlighten me. By the way the IRA never said it was violent because their religion called for it they were violent because of the political turmoil caused minority Protestants who ran a corrupt gov't with GB's backing. Either way there actions were and are reprehensible. As far as one red-neck being caught with explosives is concerned? Good! How many news cycles did it take for him to be identified as a white guy? Thought so. As far as abortion clinic bombings are concerned that is just as reprehensible as 17 Islamists, all from the same mosque, wanting to kill innocents. Now I know your kind of slow but any other questions?

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#42)
    by jondee on Mon Jun 05, 2006 at 07:15:24 AM EST
    jimcee - Where did I defend the Nazi SS?

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#43)
    by Peaches on Mon Jun 05, 2006 at 07:19:49 AM EST
    Happy B-day Johnny!!! Hope you have some good fishing. You can have one meal per week I think...unless you are pregnant or a child. Perhaps it just would be best to bury 'em in the garden and plant some sunflowers. ;)

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#44)
    by Johnny on Mon Jun 05, 2006 at 07:36:34 AM EST
    Hope you have some good fishing.
    Fishing is kinda like sex in that when it is bad, it is still pretty good, and when it is good, it is amazing. Thanks Peaches, I shall catch me a few dandies.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#45)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Jun 05, 2006 at 07:42:35 AM EST
    certain right-wing whacko commentors could fertilize all of our sunflowers with their particular brand of crap.... a business opportunity?

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#46)
    by jondee on Mon Jun 05, 2006 at 09:31:53 AM EST
    Yes Jim you're right. You're not an RNC shill who spins everything the Dems do one way and everything the Reptiles do a different way. I dont know what possessed me to think something like that. Please accept my humble apoligies.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#47)
    by Dadler on Mon Jun 05, 2006 at 09:41:59 AM EST
    Jim, If she meant what she said, then her reply came in two hurried parts, the second amending the first: "You don't need to be a registered voter TO HELP". TO HELP!!! Poker, come on now, what the left has done to me? I really don't know what "the left" or "the right" is, I only address the arguments I hear from whomever they come from. I addressed Busby's, using her own words and sentence structure. You think I'm some rationalizing dupe, while I think you're an irrational dupe. I'll call it a draw and leave you to your Texas heat, comfortable with a candidate I hear every day, and her opponent whom I know to be a status quo nothing, like the Duke-stir he was chums with.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#48)
    by kdog on Mon Jun 05, 2006 at 10:25:11 AM EST
    How on earth did the Canadians manage to bust a terror cell without logging every Canadian's phone calls or invading a Middle Eastern country? Looks like the US should examine their model for preventing terror attacks. As much as we'd like to cruise missile the problem away...that won't work. Hands on policework is the way to prevent terror attacks, "preventative" war is the way to ensure continued attacks. Within legal guidelines that ensure civil rights are protected...of course. Good job Canada...can you send a liason to Washington and show our employees how it's done? And belated R.I.P. wishes to Desmond Dekker. One of the best.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#49)
    by squeaky on Mon Jun 05, 2006 at 10:36:35 AM EST
    kdog- with all due respect to your excellent point, there is no winning with the bushlickers. they would claim that because the chimp is so tough on terror the terrorists have to hide in Canada.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#50)
    by jondee on Mon Jun 05, 2006 at 10:37:53 AM EST
    Gone to join "The Israelites" on the Red Sea shore where Israel's tents do shine so bright. Good call kdog.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#51)
    by jondee on Mon Jun 05, 2006 at 10:50:32 AM EST
    Desmond Dekker coveyed more eloquence and enlightenment with one song than the neocon weasals could accidently create in a thousand year think tank.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#52)
    by Dadler on Mon Jun 05, 2006 at 10:50:46 AM EST
    Johnny wrote: Albert Pujols is out with a sore back. Not good. Not good for Dadler is putting it nicely. He is THE offensive king of Dipsy-Doodle Bye-Bye, my rotiss team in the Kirby Puckett Memorial League. I have to replace him with Conor Jackson. Please, I'm dying here. BTW, Dipsy-Doodle Bye-Bye I got as a team name from Kirby Puckett himself. Had a college buddy who was from Minn., lived for the Twins, and knew where they stayed when they played the Angels. We hung out with them in the hotel bar a few times, and one night, when Don Sutton (at the end of his career) was pitching the next day for the Angels, Kirby was a little tipsy and saying, "If Sutton brings that old man dipsy-doodle sh*t near me," and here he gestures, indicating the homers he'd hit, "it's gonne be dipsy-doodle...bye-bye. Dipsy-doodle...bye-bye." Priceless. RIP, Kirby.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#53)
    by kdog on Mon Jun 05, 2006 at 10:56:08 AM EST
    Yeah Jondee..."Wake up in the morning, slaving for bread sir...so that every mouth can be fed...the Israelites". Though, being a quasi track bum, my personal fav is "Longshot Kick the Bucket".

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#54)
    by jondee on Mon Jun 05, 2006 at 11:04:08 AM EST
    Im gonna have to check that one out kdog. Btw, you familiar with Black Heart Man by Bunny Wailer? A friend of mine's been ravin about that to me. Im hopelessly out of the loop on some of this stuff.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#55)
    by squeaky on Mon Jun 05, 2006 at 11:32:40 AM EST
    "The Pentagon has decided to omit from new detainee policies a key tenet of the Geneva Convention that explicitly bans 'humiliating and degrading treatment,' according to knowledgeable military officials, a step that would mark a further, potentially permanent, shift away from strict adherence to international human rights standards. [...]
    So much for America's long stint as the champion of human rights. It shows just how little regard the US has for its own men and women on the field of battle. The Geneva Convention protects us as well as them. Our right wing government at work: First send out too few troops without proper equipment from the Humvees (GM corporate welfare) to inadequate body armor. Then cut the VA services for those who served. And now chucks out the Geneva Conventions. In other words the Armed services is just another social service program that is getting slashed. Republican values apparent for the underclass . Ironically, natural selection, a pinnacle of wingnut philosophy, falls on its face here with a big f*ck you to the grunt risking his or her life for WH corporate interests. What a$$holes. War & Peace

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#56)
    by kdog on Mon Jun 05, 2006 at 01:53:53 PM EST
    Not familar with that particular piece jondee..though I'm well aware of Bunny. I'll have to check it out myself.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#57)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Jun 05, 2006 at 03:18:28 PM EST
    Poker, come on now, what the left has done to me? It's funny how "The Left" is PPJ's scapegoat all the time. kdog, your remark brought this to mind:
    SWEETIE. Some of it would drive you melancholy mad. It only got me into trouble: it did. The chaplain asked me what I was in for. Spoiling the Egyptians, I says; and heres chapter and verse for it. He went and reported me, the swine; and I lost seven days remission for it. THE SERGEANT. Serve you right! I dont hold with spoiling the Egyptians. Before the war, spoiling the Egyptians was something holy. Now I see plainly it's nothing but thieving. SWEETIE [shocked] Oh, you shouldnt say that. But what I say is, if Moses might do it why maynt I? THE SERGEANT. If thats the effect it had on your mind, it's a bad effect. Some of this scripture is all right. Do justice; love mercy; and walk humbly before your God. That appeals to a man if only it could be set out in plain army regulations. But all this thieving, and slaughtering your enemies without giving quarter, and offering up human sacrifices, and thinking you can do what you like to other people because youre the chosen people of God, and you are in the right and everyone else is in the wrong: how does that look when you have had four years of the real thing instead of merely reading about it. No: damn it, we're civilized men; and though it may have gone down with those old Jews it isnt religion. And, if it isnt, where are we? Thats what I want to know.
    Too True to Be Good Act III G. B. Shaw

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#58)
    by jondee on Mon Jun 05, 2006 at 03:21:44 PM EST
    I see shrub is starting in with the gay burning and flag marriage again.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#59)
    by squeaky on Mon Jun 05, 2006 at 03:28:18 PM EST
    Yes Jondee, Blow Job compared the Marriage Amendment to Civil Rights legislation today. Truly a Through the Looking Glass moment. Even the WH press corps were stunned.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#60)
    by Johnny on Mon Jun 05, 2006 at 03:31:25 PM EST
    Smoke and mirrors to get the idiots minds off how bad their war is going. Iraq in flames! Look! Boys kissing! Pass an amendment! That'll learn 'em! Iraq in flames! Look! Flag burning too! THAT'S why Iraq is on fire!

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#61)
    by jimcee on Mon Jun 05, 2006 at 04:13:03 PM EST
    Jondee, And what specific incident is that because I don't listen to O'Reilly? If it is that the SS killed prisoners then that is true. Whatever incident you have refered to doesn't change the fact that the SS did perpetrate a massacre, as happens in all wars. What else needs to be said? Sounds suspiciously to me that you are in fact calling doubt on a past atrocity by the Nazis because you dislike some talking-head populist commentator. What's up with that? If you think it questions O'Reilly's credibility that assumes he had any to begin with. Quite frankly his credibility level is about as high, IMHO, as yours. (Hint: Not very high).

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#62)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Jun 05, 2006 at 06:41:48 PM EST
    Kdog/Jondee, you might like to check out "One Love at Studio One" featuring 1964-66 vintage Bob Marley & the Wailers. they do all the standards and then some, my fave right now being "Hooligan Ska". available on iTunes, its a 40-some song archive for $19.98. still skankin', raoul

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#63)
    by jondee on Mon Jun 05, 2006 at 06:59:35 PM EST
    jimcee - Hold your horses bub. In the context of a discussion of what occured at Haditha, Falafel said something to the effect of: "This really isnt anything new" and then talked about the execution of S.S personnel at Malmedy by U.S servicemen when in fact it was the S.S that had done the executing. This is not only a slander of the U.S servicemen who served there but a disgusting and transparent attempt to demonize the victims of Haditha by conflating them with the S.S. Yeah, I always go to bat for the Nazis. Great buncha guys once you got to know 'em.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#64)
    by Aaron on Mon Jun 05, 2006 at 07:13:30 PM EST
    wheres the pics

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#65)
    by jimcee on Mon Jun 05, 2006 at 07:19:50 PM EST
    So O'Reilly said something backwards and that is enough to discount all he says? Danged if I know. As I've said I don't listen to him but I know enough not to mistake a populist entertainer for a historian. I apoligize if I misinterpreted your remarks in any way.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#66)
    by jondee on Mon Jun 05, 2006 at 07:24:27 PM EST
    Hey jimcee, no harm no foul. Im not exactly Mr. Diplomacy myself all the time.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#67)
    by squeaky on Mon Jun 05, 2006 at 08:38:12 PM EST
    I heard O'Reilly talk about Malmedy and what he actually said was something like: " You can bet some Germans were shot rather than taken prisoner after Malmedy"
    actually said was something like..... vague Here is the actual video plus Olbermann's commentary. atrios

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#68)
    by jondee on Mon Jun 05, 2006 at 08:41:29 PM EST
    And, you feel thats an accurate representation of what occurred at Malmedy, or an appropriate, ethical comparison to make when discussing the murder of civilians at Haditha?

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#69)
    by jondee on Tue Jun 06, 2006 at 04:19:17 AM EST
    Whats even more wrong is the mentioning of the S.S and Iraqi civilians side by side as if they were comparable. You have to look at the context the statement was made in.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#70)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Jun 06, 2006 at 06:34:47 AM EST
    Dadler - It's real simple. The unknown man speaks Spainish only. How do I know? His question had to be translated. He said he had no papers. That means he is saying he is an illegal alien. And you know that to be a fact. From the San Diego Union Tribune
    It was translated and Busby replied: "Everybody can help, yeah, absolutely, you can all help. You don't need papers for voting, you don't need to be a registered voter to help."
    She said what she said.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#71)
    by soccerdad on Tue Jun 06, 2006 at 07:07:46 AM EST
    everyone knows that only idiot savant (minus the savant part) repub presidents are allowed to misspeak or not be clear

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#72)
    by squeaky on Tue Jun 06, 2006 at 07:32:49 AM EST
    Parrots at least are, parrots. Unlike their human imitator here, some have been known to actually think on their own.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#73)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Tue Jun 06, 2006 at 07:33:08 AM EST
    re Bill O'really: I hear that later printings of his book "giving advice to children" will include a chapter on how to settle sexual harrassment suites out of court to avoid nasty trials. re reggae music: My fave Desmond Dekker songs: It Mek, Pickney Girl, What Will You Gain? For pure roots reggae at its best I heartily recommend: The Congos Culture Eeka-Mouse and it all begins and ends with the madman Genius from Outer Space: Lee "Scratch" Perry My most often listened to Net Radio station: The Black Ark

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#74)
    by kdog on Tue Jun 06, 2006 at 09:51:29 AM EST
    Good pics Ernesto...but don't forget Toots and the Maytals...especially "Toots and the Maytals Live"...great versions of "Time Tough", "5446", and "Pressure Drop". Toots is the goods. My favorite live album ever.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#75)
    by squeaky on Tue Jun 06, 2006 at 10:13:58 AM EST
    I heard him on the radio and I am positive he was talking about retaliation for Malmedy.
    Well yes, he did that too, without ever apologizing for his horrible smear to the US WWII troops. What is at first seems like apples and orange non sequitur starts to come into focus. He both minimized the Haditha masacre and called out to his southern white base that sympathizes with the Nazi's. Yes they had to eat jim crow too. Tristero spells it out:
    Incredibly, according to this synopsis of a book on Malmedy, the man who pushed for the vindication of the Nazis was an anti-semite who, as a Southerner, identified with and felt sympathy for the humiliation the defeated Nazis suffered. Communists murdered the last Nazi implicated in the massacre. The "plight" of the Nazis, so similar to the "plight" of the white South in 1865. O'Reilly knew exactly what he was tapping into. Boy, did he ever.
    Ah that all important 'southern vote'. Hmm...anti immigration, check; anti gay, check; white solidarity, check; nationalism, check; rewriting history where the nazi's are victims, check; virgin bride/sanctity of marriage, check; preemptive war (aka war of aggression, check; fascism, well we do need an imperial leader to clean up all the decadance of the left, check.... What a flood of memories as history seems to be repeating itself. O'Reilley does know just what he is doing.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread (none / 0) (#76)
    by Dadler on Tue Jun 06, 2006 at 11:02:06 AM EST
    Jim, And Bush said "crusade", is that what he literally wanted? He SAID it, he must have meant it. As for the man here in SD, why didn't the paper (my hometown sh*trag, btw) try to interview him further to clarify? And the content of Busby's reply is focued on HIS HELP, she uses the word twice. That the gerund Voting was also uttered, like I said, by all means cling to the belief that she wants all illegals to show up and stuff the boxes for her. That's a shade too cynical for me, in this instance, with a candidate I'm quite familiar with. I'm no more demonizing Busby for this one poorly phrased reply than you are Bush for his MYRIAD of ignorant, harmful, sloppy words. Later, Mr. Chips.