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Oklahoma Okays Death Penalty for Child Molesters

By Jeralyn, Section Death Penalty
Posted on Fri Jun 09, 2006 at 01:37:12 PM EST
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Oklahoma joins South Carolina today in approving the death penalty for second time child molesters.

Oklahoma on Friday became the fifth state to allow the death penalty for certain sex crimes, although legal scholars questioned the constitutionality of the new state law. Under the measure signed by Gov. Brad Henry, anyone convicted twice for rape, sodomy or lewd molestation involving children under 14 can face the death penalty.

South Carolina's governor signed a similar law on Thursday allowing the death penalty for offenders convicted twice of raping children younger than 11. Louisiana, Florida and Montana also have laws allowing the death penalty for certain sex crimes.

The correct response:

David Brook, a law professor at Washington and Lee University in Lexington, Va., said the measure might actually put a child rape victim's life at risk. "The last message you want to give an offender who has the life of a child in his hands is you might as well kill the child because he's already got the death penalty," said Brook, who runs the Virginia Capital Case Clearing House, which assists lawyers in death penalty cases. "This is a very stupid message."

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    Oklahoma Okays Death Penalty for Child Molesters | 40 comments (40 topical)
    Re: Oklahoma Okays Death Penalty for Child Moleste (none / 0) (#1)
    by John Mann on Fri Jun 09, 2006 at 01:42:34 PM EST
    Jesus. What next.

    Re: Oklahoma Okays Death Penalty for Child Moleste (none / 0) (#37)
    by childadvocate32 on Fri Oct 20, 2006 at 04:20:26 PM EST
    I think you answered yourself.

    Parent
    Re: Oklahoma Okays Death Penalty for Child Moleste (none / 0) (#2)
    by Johnny on Fri Jun 09, 2006 at 02:41:59 PM EST
    Very flawed logic rogan-you imply absent the DP, LWOP is the only alternative. Sorry, won't fly. All this punishment happiness drooled voer by wrong-wingers has not eliminated unwanted behavior.

    Re: Oklahoma Okays Death Penalty for Child Moleste (none / 0) (#38)
    by childadvocate32 on Fri Oct 20, 2006 at 04:25:31 PM EST
    We could give all of the parents of the victims hunting knives and let them castrate the convicted so that way we're not killing and it's a much cheaper, faster way to rehabilitate and I bet this recovery is permanent.  No falling off the wagon here.  Then we don't have to pay our middle class tax dollars (which are being used SO wisely in a war) to pay for the living expenses of child rapists/molesters/"Pederasts" whatever you want to title them as.  I know the parents would feel better.

    Parent
    Re: Oklahoma Okays Death Penalty for Child Moleste (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jun 09, 2006 at 03:35:58 PM EST
    Is Capital Punishment Too Harsh for Rapists?" And doesn't 25-life pose the same risk? This is something I've been struggling with. Some time ago I read that legislators passed more lenient laws sometime in history to help prevent the murder of witnesses. Anyone know of a study or a reference?

    Re: Oklahoma Okays Death Penalty for Child Moleste (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jun 09, 2006 at 04:25:41 PM EST
    So Now A Child Molestor Sits in Prison awaiting the fate as Dead Man/Woman Walking. OK 25 years. Why not just publicize them on the internet and let the people take care of them. Right Oh I forgot that's too liberal. No Just keep them locked up for all those years so the molested child who grows into a adult can listen to each new governor to see if the molestor might be pardoned. Yeah that makes a whole lot of sense so what do you do with them. I can't answer that it's really in the hands of the State. Do what they must.

    Re: Oklahoma Okays Death Penalty for Child Moleste (none / 0) (#5)
    by roger on Fri Jun 09, 2006 at 04:59:29 PM EST
    Florida is one of the states that has had this law since before I started practicing. Cap Sex (as we call it) is sexual contact with a child under 12 yrs old. Upon conviction, there is a min/man sentence of 25 years. No gain time, no parole. on release, we have the "Jimmy Rice" law, which can lead to a lifetime "civil" commitment. The only practical aspect of making this a "capital" crime is that Cap crimes have no statute of limitations. No one asks for the actual death penalty. No one believes that execution would be remotely constitutional

    Re: Oklahoma Okays Death Penalty for Child Moleste (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jun 09, 2006 at 05:03:52 PM EST
    this law is horrible since so many child molestation charges are bs, with children being coached to lie by some scumbag prosecuting attorney, who will use fake charges to enhance their career.

    Re: Oklahoma Okays Death Penalty for Child Moleste (none / 0) (#7)
    by Joe Bob on Fri Jun 09, 2006 at 05:07:28 PM EST
    I'm guessing that the wise legislators of Oklahoma already forgot the child molestation hysteria of the mid-80s to mid-90s. The McMillan Preschool case is the standout example of the phenomenon. If those defendants were convicted and sent to death row, the end result would be entirely predictable and we're seeing it now: a steady stream of death row inmates being exonerated. As it is, capital murder cases get a fair amount of scrutiny and review relative to other crimes, and there are still a lot of mistakes made. Imagine what a nightmare it would be to create a whole new class of capital crimes where much of the evidence consists of child testimony. All that said, it would be nice to start seeing some honesty in the way sex offenders are sentenced. If it's life without parole, so be it. Some states have ex post facto civil committment laws wherein parolees who have completed their prison sentences are locked up in mental institutions until they complete treatment. Strangely enough, as far as I know in my state, the number of people to successfully complete treatment, in spite of years of institutionalization, is precisely zero.

    Re: Oklahoma Okays Death Penalty for Child Moleste (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jun 09, 2006 at 05:08:22 PM EST
    Roger, do you think the recent "contract" attempts on kids' lives in Florida are because of the severity of the law? A trend or a abnormality?

    Re: Oklahoma Okays Death Penalty for Child Moleste (none / 0) (#9)
    by lilybart on Fri Jun 09, 2006 at 05:33:25 PM EST
    joe bob, I also think that child molesters should not be allowed out again, of course, there needs to be very good evidence and not just "he touched me." i am against the death penalty but child molestors are never cured, according to what I have read. So, the option of committment until the impossible cure, seems about right.

    Re: Oklahoma Okays Death Penalty for Child Moleste (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jun 09, 2006 at 05:48:31 PM EST
    I could see scenarios, where some religious right prosecutors and judges, bringing charges and trying some kid who just turned 18 for having sex with his 16 year old girlfriend, who will be seventeen in a month.

    Re: Oklahoma Okays Death Penalty for Child Moleste (none / 0) (#33)
    by childadvocate32 on Fri Oct 20, 2006 at 03:46:52 PM EST
    First of all it is not talking about sex between an almost 17 year old and an 18 year old boyfriend/girlfriend.  It clearly says under the age of 14.  Second of all, TWO CONVICTIONS!!  BS charges do happen unfortunately but with due process getting slower and slower and then actually surmounting enough evidence for an arrest let alone conviction- Twice, on seperate instances- not counts and we have double jeopardy laws so it is two occurrences.  Probably guilty as sin-- ya think?!  What DA have you ever met that would try to possibly arrest in the boyfriend/girlfriend scenario?  

    Parent
    Re: Oklahoma Okays Death Penalty for Child Moleste (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jun 09, 2006 at 06:20:44 PM EST
    rogan, do you have a reliable Department of Justice source for those assertions? Please post the link.

    Re: Oklahoma Okays Death Penalty for Child Moleste (none / 0) (#12)
    by roger on Fri Jun 09, 2006 at 06:22:59 PM EST
    PN, Any time that a long sentence is guaranteed, the potential is there. I have seen people plan to murder deputies over drug charges, and attempted murder charges. Some people are actually dangerous when confronted with any long sentence.

    Re: Oklahoma Okays Death Penalty for Child Moleste (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jun 09, 2006 at 08:53:54 PM EST
    For those who don't know: Police: 3 Murder-For-Hire Plots Hatched In Jail
    6:23 p.m. EDT June 2, 2006 TAVARES, Fla. - As many as three murder-for-hire plots have been hatched in one local jail. The jail is in Lake County, and WESH 2 News has obtained a tape of a grandmother allegedly hiring a hitman in a hotel room to kill her daughter-in-law and grandchildren. Police said the woman's husband was also part of the plot, and it was actually initiated in jail by the couple's son because his family was about to testify against him in a sexual battery case. The two people accused in that case are Robert and Versie Jackson. Two other men -- Jeffery Roden and Daniel King -- are accused of plotting two separate murder-for-hires. ... He admits to talking badly about his 5-year-old stepdaughter and his wife, but he denies he wanted them dead. King is accused of offering to pay an inmate more than $5,000 to kill his stepdaughter. She's expected to testify against him in an upcoming sexual battery trial. ... This week, Lake County investigators have charged four people in three different murder-for-hire plots. It's never happened before.
    Is it a coincidence this is in Florida where Jessica's Law passed? If it is a new trend, how can anyone claim it is for the protection of children? With only about 50 of these a year they would surpass the average number of child sexual killings.

    Re: Oklahoma Okays Death Penalty for Child Moleste (none / 0) (#14)
    by Johnny on Sat Jun 10, 2006 at 01:24:20 AM EST
    Pedophiles are attracted to and have sex with prepubescents.
    Wrong. Pedophilia is the attraction, a pederast commits the action. No difference say some... But prosecuting someone for being a pedophile, amounts to thought crime. I like to think even the wrong-wingers want to avoid that train.

    Re: Oklahoma Okays Death Penalty for Child Moleste (none / 0) (#34)
    by childadvocate32 on Fri Oct 20, 2006 at 03:49:56 PM EST
    Again- it is the CONVICTION, TWICE for an actual act.  Proving desire and convicting for desire only and no actual crime would be impossible.

    Parent
    Re: Oklahoma Okays Death Penalty for Child Moleste (none / 0) (#15)
    by HK on Sat Jun 10, 2006 at 06:32:02 AM EST
    I am appalled at this new law. There are so many things wrong with it, not least the fact that some girls who are nearly 14 years old are capable of looking a lot older. I am inclined to think that those who abuse children have an illness (or a perversion) that cannot be cured and I wonder how much research has been done on this. If it is some kind of mental deficiency, it would appear that the US has returned to the practice of executing the mentally ill. I think society has a duty to put these people where they can do no harm, but the offenders themselves are part of society and must be given consideration too. We do not seek to terminate the lives of others who are incurably ill with a non-fatal illness. Furthermore, what if the offender was the father of the victim; is it right that the victim is made to suffer and then to grieve? Not only will repeat offender child molesterers have nothing to lose from murdering their victims, but they have something to gain - the elimination of quite possibly the only eye witness to their capital crime.

    Re: Oklahoma Okays Death Penalty for Child Moleste (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jun 10, 2006 at 09:56:58 AM EST
    My vote it to let them go with a stern warning. That way they will be free of any worry of the consequences of their actions. The children only be molested, not molested then murdered.

    Re: Oklahoma Okays Death Penalty for Child Moleste (none / 0) (#35)
    by childadvocate32 on Fri Oct 20, 2006 at 04:02:36 PM EST
    Seriously?  Not seriously that you think that- but seriously you are that socially unaware to post that?  A stern warning?  Drunk drivers get more than that.  Talk about people being in jail for murder.  I have worked with children for 15 years and am a mother of two.  I live in Oklahoma.  Once you molest a child you no longer deserve your rights because you are not a functioning and contributing part of society.  My child or not, I catch anyone doing anything romotely similar and I PROMISE I will slaughter that individual myself--jail time and my life be damned.  There comes a point when the excuse of "mommy didn't love me enough", "I was abused, molested, or bullied" just doesn't cut it.  I understand there are psychological factoids but who escaped childhood completely unscathed?  Learn to deal with your own stuff and leave the children alone.  Stop the cycle.

    Parent
    Re: Oklahoma Okays Death Penalty for Child Moleste (none / 0) (#17)
    by Patrick on Sat Jun 10, 2006 at 10:27:46 AM EST
    Any time that a long sentence is guaranteed, the potential is there. I have seen people plan to murder deputies over drug charges, and attempted murder charges. Some people are actually dangerous when confronted with any long sentence.
    Roger, That was also the convetional wisom with the passage of three strikes in California. It never materialized.

    Re: Oklahoma Okays Death Penalty for Child Moleste (none / 0) (#18)
    by roger on Sat Jun 10, 2006 at 11:08:35 AM EST
    Patrick, \ I can only tell you of a (very) few cases that I have personally dealt with. Over all, I am always suprised to see how people show up to court, calmly and peacefully, even when they know that they are going to prison for a long time.

    Re: Oklahoma Okays Death Penalty for Child Moleste (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jun 10, 2006 at 11:35:52 AM EST
    Patrick, how do you know "it never materialized"? Killings Drop 11% as Crime Totals Decline,
    While hailing the dropping crime rate, Bratton and his officers appealed for greater community cooperation. Police have long complained about the difficulty in getting witnesses to cooperate in murder investigations, especially when gangs are involved and the witnesses fear retaliation. "We can't do it without you," Deputy Chief Earl Paysinger said. "We need your sight. We need your voice. We need your courage." But persuading community members to volunteer information and tips faces challenges -- especially in the most violent areas of South Los Angeles. Addressing that concern requires ensuring the safety of potential witnesses and reestablishing community trust in the local police, he said. "Some of it is a lack of confidence" in the police, Paysinger said. "Some of it is because of fear."
    Are you saying they are only paranoid? Do you know how many witnesses were murdered?

    Re: Oklahoma Okays Death Penalty for Child Moleste (none / 0) (#20)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Jun 10, 2006 at 11:42:21 AM EST
    Flawless logic. To get around the DNA issue we just lower the bar.

    Re: Oklahoma Okays Death Penalty for Child Moleste (none / 0) (#21)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Jun 10, 2006 at 11:44:08 AM EST
    Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, then kill some more. God damn I love this country. We have got a solution for EVERYTHING!!!

    Re: Oklahoma Okays Death Penalty for Child Moleste (none / 0) (#22)
    by Johnny on Sat Jun 10, 2006 at 12:11:31 PM EST
    I find the wrong-wingers hilarious on crime threads-nowhere in here has anyone advocated no punishment, yet they continue lathering out inane idiocy such as "My vote it to let them go with a stern warning. That way they will be free of any worry of the consequences of their actions. The children only be molested, not molested then murdered." The not so subtle meaning there is that Wile believes liberals wish to see all criminals go free. Stupid is as stupid does.

    Re: Oklahoma Okays Death Penalty for Child Moleste (none / 0) (#23)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jun 10, 2006 at 12:40:49 PM EST
    Johnny, as transparent as their propaganda is, it's still funny to have it pointed out. There has to be an optimum sentence or system. Does anyone remember how happy they were when Elizabeth Smart was found alive? Compare that to the utter devastation when Jessica Lunsford was found. All laws should keep this in mind because that is where the country really stands. Coeuy evidently killed to hide the crime. All these severe laws might make that more likely. It really rips me up to think of that possibility.

    Re: Oklahoma Okays Death Penalty for Child Moleste (none / 0) (#36)
    by childadvocate32 on Fri Oct 20, 2006 at 04:14:28 PM EST
    Couey was a repeat offender with more than 24 arrests over a 30 year period.  More than half of those arrests were rape and molestation of children.  Jessica Lunsford might be alive today if this law was in place a long time ago.  
    Elizabeth Smart was not 9 but 15 and taken by an insane self proclaimed prophet with obviously low powers of persuasion hence the kidnapping.  Every sex offender is different.  Some are going to kill because they are habitual and calculating.  Usually it takes a time or two before they have enough gumption to kill.  You've compared apples to oranges with commonality only of being a fruit.  

    Parent
    Re: Oklahoma Okays Death Penalty for Child Moleste (none / 0) (#24)
    by Patrick on Sat Jun 10, 2006 at 04:27:32 PM EST
    Patrick, how do you know "it never materialized"?
    PN, Because it hasn't. Witness intimidation by gangs and murderers has always been present, the huge increases that were predicted didn't happen.

    Re: Oklahoma Okays Death Penalty for Child Moleste (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jun 10, 2006 at 04:28:44 PM EST
    Johnny: Lets hear your suggestion for correct setencing for pederasts.

    Re: Oklahoma Okays Death Penalty for Child Moleste (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jun 10, 2006 at 05:53:33 PM EST
    Patrick, what were the huge increase predictions and what is it compared to those predictions? Percentages and links are in order if you want to be convincing.

    Re: Oklahoma Okays Death Penalty for Child Moleste (none / 0) (#27)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jun 10, 2006 at 06:44:02 PM EST
    Anti-snitch campaign riles police, prosecutors Not necessarily, says David Kennedy, director of the Center for Crime Prevention and Control at John Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York. "There's such animosity toward the police in some urban communities that even people who aren't afraid, and who hate crime, still feel cooperating is something good people don't do," Kennedy says. "That's the Busta Rhymes story. He has nothing to fear. He just doesn't want to talk. His reputation would take a dive if he did." The code of silence, he says, "is breaking out in a way we've never seen before." Saunders agrees: "It's a movement, that's what it is -- a stop snitching movement."
    What do you make of this, Patrick? The first hint of the new 60s?

    Re: Oklahoma Okays Death Penalty for Child Moleste (none / 0) (#28)
    by Patrick on Sat Jun 10, 2006 at 08:59:55 PM EST
    PN, I think it's a sad commentary on the values of some. Nothing more.

    Re: Oklahoma Okays Death Penalty for Child Moleste (none / 0) (#29)
    by Patrick on Sat Jun 10, 2006 at 09:01:24 PM EST
    Patrick, what were the huge increase predictions and what is it compared to those predictions? Percentages and links are in order if you want to be convincing.
    I'm not that concerned about proving it to you. If you are, by all means, go do the research. I think it'll support my position.

    Re: Oklahoma Okays Death Penalty for Child Moleste (none / 0) (#30)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jun 10, 2006 at 10:28:54 PM EST
    These wrong-wingers are so predictable. When "Because I said so" doesn't work... 'nuff said. And that's more than a "sad commentary." It's antiestablishment. That happens when the government gets too repressive, like in the 50s, which gave birth to the 60s.

    Re: Oklahoma Okays Death Penalty for Child Moleste (none / 0) (#31)
    by Johnny on Sun Jun 11, 2006 at 01:46:44 AM EST
    Lets hear your suggestion for correct setencing for pederasts.
    Send them all to Texas where they can learn to vote republican. Stupid is as stupid does.

    Re: Oklahoma Okays Death Penalty for Child Moleste (none / 0) (#32)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jun 11, 2006 at 11:47:20 AM EST
    A little late. There is a pol. party already for them: Pedophile party announces policies DUTCH pedophiles were launching a political party to push for a cut in the legal age for sexual relations from 16 to 12 and the legalisation of child pornography and sex with animals.

    Death Penalty for Sexual offenders??? (none / 0) (#39)
    by Deb on Tue Oct 31, 2006 at 10:20:32 PM EST
    What about if you are falsely accused?? Especially in OK??? What I saw with our system in Tulsa, OK was shocking!It makes you question everything you have ever thought or believed about justice!

    If I had a child ever molested believe me I would not quit until the predator was punished - but before someone is convicted to a LIFE SENTENCE w/no priors - shouldn't there be evidence other than a mad 14 & 16 year old girl crying for attention and w/many various stories on what happened along w/some interesting family dynamics going on!  Now there is an INNOCENT wonderful man rotting in prison and family & friends literally dying out here ---
    and these "poor" girls supposedly had their innocence taken away while one has already been pregnant and the other is staying in trouble and been w/many boys supposedly....so tell me how this works??? If you get mad at someone I guess you can just accuse them of something and have no proof and make up all kinds of stories - change them a few times and still get someone put away - WOW!!!IT IS SCARY!!! and who can you trust?? our judges??? our system??? our attorneys??? a jury??  A jury put this man away with ABSOLUTELY no proof only the many different stories these girls had - they didn't know the history of these girls!

    Don't get me wrong - I am totally for punishing any sexual offenders when proven guilty w/out a doubt! But when someone with NO PRIORS is convicted to LIFE shouldn't they have more details on everyone involved - not just 2 troubled girls??!!!!

    Re: Death Penalty for child molesters (none / 0) (#40)
    by clbama on Tue Jan 16, 2007 at 03:19:04 PM EST
    Amen! If crimes were more severe there would be less crimes. By the light sentences child molesters receive we are telling them it's okay to molest our children. A child molester is worse than anything, the closest thing to God is a child so what does that make a person who molests them?
    Now if only other states will follow suit, we that are parents make feel a bit better.

    Oklahoma Okays Death Penalty for Child Molesters | 40 comments (40 topical)