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ACLU Files FOIA Request for Haditha Information

By Jeralyn, Section War In Iraq
Posted on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 10:58:31 AM EST
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The ACLU filed a freedom of information lawsuit request today seeking information on the Haditha killings of 24 Iraqi civilians, including women and children.

The request seeks information about the Haditha incident, about the alleged cover-up of that incident by senior officers, and about other incidents involving the killing of civilians by U.S. forces in Iraq and Afghanistan. The request also seeks to ascertain whether military officers attempted to suppress information about these deaths.

Specifically, the request seeks the release of all records relating to the killing of civilians by U.S. forces in Iraq and Afghanistan since January 1, 2005, including death certificates, autopsy reports, investigative files, documents related to criminal and administrative proceedings, witness interviews, statistics, policy documents (including "rules of engagement"), paperwork for compensatory payments to relatives of victims, photographs and videos.

The purpose of the request: Accountability

"Disclosure of these documents will allow the public to evaluate the sufficiency of the military's investigations," said ACLU attorney Amrit Singh. "While we welcome the military investigations, the public has a right to see for itself that these allegations are being taken seriously and investigated thoroughly."

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    ACLU Files FOIA Request for Haditha Information | 28 comments (28 topical)
    Re: ACLU Files FOIA Request for Haditha Informatio (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 12:40:08 PM EST
    The ACLU is doing the right thing. We need to know these things. The Problem is did the ACLU get to the "original documents" in time.

    Re: ACLU Files FOIA Request for Haditha Informatio (none / 0) (#2)
    by Sailor on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 12:54:26 PM EST
    White House Promises Full Disclosure Of Alleged Haditha Massacre May 29, 2006 The Bush administration has promised full public disclosure of the results of a U.S. military investigation into the alleged killings of Iraqi civilians by U.S. Marines last year.
    and
    June 17, 2006
    WASHINGTON -- The general charged with investigating whether Marines tried to cover up the killing of 24 civilians in Haditha has completed his report
    Re: ACLU Files FOIA Request for Haditha Informatio (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 01:17:38 PM EST
    This is offtrack, I apologize. Christy over at FDL just posted that Jane Hamsher's mom has passed away. Those of you who sometimes visit FDL may want to leave a post for Jane. Peace.

    Re: ACLU Files FOIA Request for Haditha Informatio (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 02:04:33 PM EST
    I'm willing to bet dollars to doughnuts that it will take more than a year for these docs to appear, tha Pentagon is real good at losing stuff.

    Re: ACLU Files FOIA Request for Haditha Informatio (none / 0) (#5)
    by David on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 02:19:10 PM EST
    Shouldn't the ACLU be more concerned with the rights of those military men and women who have to defend themselves against such charges? One would think that would be more in line with the ACLU's stated mission of seeking to protect individuals' rights and liberties.

    Re: ACLU Files FOIA Request for Haditha Informatio (none / 0) (#6)
    by squeaky on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 02:24:22 PM EST
    david-Do you think that the alleged murderers are being framed? What is strange is that the military is even prosecuting the case. They have a long history of not being exactly forthright about their abuses of power.

    Re: ACLU Files FOIA Request for Haditha Informatio (none / 0) (#7)
    by squeaky on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 02:33:37 PM EST
    Perhaps, david, once we get a bit of transparency going here the real criminals will be brought to justice, not just the little pawns. Had the alleged murderers you mentioned, decided to not participate in the murders, and had they been under orders to proceed with the killings the ACLU may have stepped in to defend their court-martial. Soldiers who are either just following orders or killing civilians are not exactly victims of civil rights abuse. Maybe Rove will be able to spin it better, your attempt is pathetic.

    Re: ACLU Files FOIA Request for Haditha Informatio (none / 0) (#8)
    by David on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 03:02:24 PM EST
    Look, if these soldiers commited war crimes (which is exactly what we're talking about) by intentionally targeting innocent civilians, including women and children, then they deserve to be prosecuted and punished. However, as much as we are concerned with the rights of accused civilians, I believe that the men and women serving our nation in uniform should be afforded as much. To use the Haditha example, I don't know whether civilians were killed in legitimate cross-fire, or through poor judgment by marines who misapplied the ROE, or executed "in cold blood" by those very same marines. I believe that there is still much to be resolved there and I don't believe that the process will necessarily be helped or that the rights of the accused protected by selective leaking of documents obtained via FOIA. Beside from the principles involved, I also don't think it to be a very good political strategy (this being an election year and all). I believe that it's these types of things that put us more at risk to the claims that we don't "support the troops". As ridiculous as those claims might be, the more they are made, the more chance they have to stick in the minds of the many, many individuals who pay little attention (i.e., those most susceptible to sound-bite political appeals).

    Re: ACLU Files FOIA Request for Haditha Informatio (none / 0) (#9)
    by squeaky on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 03:08:10 PM EST
    As ridiculous as those claims might be, the more they are made,....
    So do you think that the recent spate of war crimes news by the military is a clever plan by Rove to discredit democrats for not supporting the troops? Not bad. I was wondering why all the news about war crimes was all of a sudden hitting the papers.

    Re: ACLU Files FOIA Request for Haditha Informatio (none / 0) (#10)
    by David on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 03:18:12 PM EST
    Squeaky, I think that Rove & Co. are very good at responding to the events of the day (e.g., muddying waters, changing subject, turning tables, etc.). However, if there had been a grand political plan from the start, I don't think that we would still be there 3+ years on. Just my thoughts. My understanding of Haditha is that a lot of the early reporting stemmed from family members who did not like the compensation (or lack of it) that the US offered them. If that has indeed been the practice since the beginning of the war, how many other incidents might we not know about since in those cases the compensation was deemed adequate? Probably not a lot in the DoD's files on those incidents that ACLU will be able to access either.

    Re: ACLU Files FOIA Request for Haditha Informatio (none / 0) (#11)
    by Che's Lounge on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 03:20:33 PM EST
    Squeaky, Using the term "alleged murderers" is playing right into Karl's hands. Just saying.

    Re: ACLU Files FOIA Request for Haditha Informatio (none / 0) (#12)
    by squeaky on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 03:31:51 PM EST
    If that has indeed been the practice since the beginning of the war, how many other incidents might we not know about since in those cases the compensation was deemed adequate?
    Another good point david. One thing sticks in my mind that oddly had the opposite effect. When the special ops task force 145 was clearing the ground for the Zarwaqi bombs they showed up at a nearby village and took some gun fire. They threw a few grenades and killed civilians. The next day the regular army guys stopped by and apologized offering financial compensation. Had they not done that we would have never known that the special commandos were dressed all in black looking just like al-Sadr's Mahdi army guys. That is why they were fired on, because the villagers thought them a Shia death squad. The horrors in Iraq, as you point out, have certainly gone unobserved or have been swept under the rug. It is way too dangerous for the press to keep things honest. It is time for us to leave. Enough blood is on our hands.

    Re: ACLU Files FOIA Request for Haditha Informatio (none / 0) (#13)
    by David on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 03:31:58 PM EST
    Squeaky, Respectfully disagree. I think that not giving them the same benefit of doubt and presumption of innocence that we would give to any other accused plays right into his hands. I don't mean to split legal hairs, but even though there is little doubt that the soldiers caused the deaths of those civilians, i.e., killed them, it is not yet adjudicated that "murder" occurred, at least in the sense of the Geneva Convention or Military Justice (or whatever it's called) would have it.

    Re: ACLU Files FOIA Request for Haditha Informatio (none / 0) (#14)
    by David on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 03:37:57 PM EST
    Sorry. I misread Che's Lounge post and mistakenly attributed it to Squeaky. Not sure if the point is still the same or whether my response still makes sense (assuming it ever did).

    Re: ACLU Files FOIA Request for Haditha Informatio (none / 0) (#15)
    by squeaky on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 03:38:48 PM EST
    You will get no argument from me on that.There is no disagreement. I imagine that these poor louts will take the fall for others if they are found guilty. The real war criminals are sadly running the show, and most likely settle into a cosy retirement with grandchildren playing at their feet.

    Re: ACLU Files FOIA Request for Haditha Informatio (none / 0) (#16)
    by Sailor on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 04:02:52 PM EST
    Ahh, of course it won't be 'murder', the army does such a great job at investigating itself and only punishing low level folks. And they do so in such a timely manner And of course the military has already said 'no coverup' occurred ... gee, I believe them, it's not like they ever lied before ...

    Re: ACLU Files FOIA Request for Haditha Informatio (none / 0) (#17)
    by Sailor on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 04:12:27 PM EST
    BTW, White House Promises Full Disclosure Of Alleged Haditha Massacre Yet the ACLU has to sue them to find out the facts. Anyone else see a pattern?

    Re: ACLU Files FOIA Request for Haditha Informatio (none / 0) (#18)
    by Che's Lounge on Fri Jun 23, 2006 at 12:06:59 AM EST
    The real war criminals are sadly running the show, There ya go. These incidents were inevitable. Those people were murdered by GEORGE BUSH AND HIS DICK CHAINEY via RUMSFELD. If someone kills another with a gun do we charge the gun? Same deal here. If indeed these soldiers are capable of independently meeting out liberation, then they should all refuse to fight. But they don't because these are young men (old kids) that have been systematically brainwashed into being killing machines. The only humanity they have left to cling to is their brotherhood for each other. These men and women are the victims of Bush's war just like the people they heve been brainwashed into thinking are the "enemy". Evil man make me kill ya. Evil man make you kill me. Jimi Hendrix "Machine Gun" From the Band of Gypsies. That was in 1970, by the way. My nomination for Iraq's new National Anthem

    Re: ACLU Files FOIA Request for Haditha Informatio (none / 0) (#19)
    by Che's Lounge on Fri Jun 23, 2006 at 12:16:15 AM EST
    Charlie Chaplin makes a very excellent speech at the end of "The Great Dictator". The movie is so timely right now. But I would encourage you all to rent the flick and skip to the last 5 minutes. It's just one of the most impassioned anti-fascist speeches that has ever been given. If it doesn't make you stand and cheer, then you have the machine heart that Chaplin refers to. It's got Dick Cheney written all over it, and that was 50 years before he gained power.

    Re: ACLU Files FOIA Request for Haditha Informatio (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jun 23, 2006 at 07:20:34 AM EST
    David... I think that not giving them the same benefit of doubt and presumption of innocence that we would give to any other accused Good points! One would think that the ACLU (American, being the operative word in there) would be all over this...however, they are too busy trying to tie the governments hands in dealing with terrorism, getting girls in the boy scouts, getting crosses banned from government buildings, and letting all the illegal aliens go free to be worried about such things!

    Re: ACLU Files FOIA Request for Haditha Informatio (none / 0) (#21)
    by Che's Lounge on Fri Jun 23, 2006 at 08:35:46 AM EST
    BB, It's called multitasking. Or are you one of the "special" ones who cannot walk and chew gum at the same time? Your priorities on the constitution are rather, shall we say, pre schoolish.

    Re: ACLU Files FOIA Request for Haditha Informatio (none / 0) (#22)
    by Che's Lounge on Fri Jun 23, 2006 at 08:37:53 AM EST
    By the way, the picture at the top of the post is innacurate. The kid still has his head.

    Re: ACLU Files FOIA Request for Haditha Informatio (none / 0) (#23)
    by Che's Lounge on Fri Jun 23, 2006 at 11:45:28 AM EST
    No just shooting and blowing them off. Same difference.

    Re: ACLU Files FOIA Request for Haditha Informatio (none / 0) (#24)
    by Sailor on Fri Jun 23, 2006 at 11:48:39 AM EST
    It's the ACLU's priorities that are pre-schoolish.... banning crosses, letting illegals go free, and making sure girls get into the Boy Scouts
    provide links where the ACLU has fought for any of that.

    Re: ACLU Files FOIA Request for Haditha Informatio (none / 0) (#25)
    by jondee on Fri Jun 23, 2006 at 12:35:48 PM EST
    B.B's obviously on a 24 hr. Fox/Rush feed. "Banning crosses" at government buildings is because the taliban-wing of "Christianity" isnt allowed to declare a state religion. Otherwise they're free to grab faith-based funding, harrass trick-or-treaters, and protest Harry Potter as much as they want. Of course, if the ACLU only concerned itself with the civil rights of conservatives at the expense of "commie liberal" causes, bullet brain would have nothing to say.

    Re: ACLU Files FOIA Request for Haditha Informatio (none / 0) (#26)
    by Che's Lounge on Fri Jun 23, 2006 at 12:49:49 PM EST
    BB, How many children have the "insurgents" decapitated?

    Re: ACLU Files FOIA Request for Haditha Informatio (none / 0) (#28)
    by jondee on Mon Jun 26, 2006 at 10:08:57 AM EST
    B.B - "Childish name calling". Right after calling people "commie lefties". I rest my case. And yeah, I do care. Crosses are for churches and for whoever wants one in their home, car, or maybe for burning at immigrant rallies (with the proper permit).

    Re: ACLU Files FOIA Request for Haditha Informatio (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Jul 18, 2006 at 08:08:18 PM EST
    I find it interesting as the father of one of the Marines held in the al-Hamdania case that there is little or no consideration for due process of law and the presumption of innocence....why is that?

    ACLU Files FOIA Request for Haditha Information | 28 comments (28 topical)