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Wednesday Open Thread

With the immigration hearings beginning today, more details of the Korean missile launch and Joltin' Joe still in the news, there should be plenty for you to talk about while I'm in court this morning. You choose the topics, these or others, and I'll be back this afternoon.

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    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#1)
    by soccerdad on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 03:07:45 AM EST
    Does Cheney's investment strategy give us insight as to what he thinks will happen to the economy?
    Well, as it turns out, Kiplinger Magazine ran an article based on Cheney's financial disclosure statement and, sure enough, found out that the VP is lying to the American people for the umpteenth time. Deficits do matter and Cheney has invested his money accordingly. The article is called "Cheney's betting on bad news" and provides an account of where Cheney has socked away more than $25 million. While the figures may be estimates, the investments are not. According to Tom Blackburn of the Palm Beach Post, Cheney has invested heavily in "a fund that specializes in short-term municipal bonds, a tax-exempt money market fund and an inflation protected securities fund. The first two hold up if interest rates rise with inflation. The third is protected against inflation." Cheney has dumped another (estimated) $10 to $25 million in a European bond fund which tells us that he is counting on a steadily weakening dollar. So, while working class Americans are loosing ground to inflation and rising energy costs, Darth Cheney will be enhancing his wealth in "Old Europe". As Blackburn sagely notes, "Not all 'bad news' is bad for everybody."


    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#2)
    by soccerdad on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 03:29:32 AM EST
    An activist's view of patriotism:
    Mark Twain, having been called a "traitor" for criticizing the U.S. invasion of the Philippines, derided what he called "monarchical patriotism." He said: "The gospel of the monarchical patriotism is: 'The King can do no wrong.' We have adopted it with all its servility, with an unimportant change in the wording: 'Our country, right or wrong!' We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had--the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it, all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism."
    If patriotism in the best sense (not in the monarchical sense) is loyalty to the principles of democracy, then who was the true patriot, Theodore Roosevelt, who applauded a massacre by American soldiers of 600 Filipino men, women, and children on a remote Philippine island, or Mark Twain, who denounced it?
    snip
    Instead of being feared for our military prowess, we should want to be respected for our dedication to human rights. I suggest that a patriotic American who cares for her or his country might act on behalf of a different vision. Should we not begin to redefine patriotism? We need to expand it beyond that narrow nationalism that has caused so much death and suffering. If national boundaries should not be obstacles to trade--some call it "globalization"--should they also not be obstacles to compassion and generosity? Should we not begin to consider all children, everywhere, as our own? In that case, war, which in our time is always an assault on children, would be unacceptable as a solution to the problems of the world. Human ingenuity would have to search for other ways.
    LINK

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#3)
    by scribe on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 05:20:56 AM EST
    TL: Could you please stop referring to Senator Lieberman as "Joltin' Joe"? IMHO, doing so does a great dishonor to the only rightful holder of that nickname, Joe DiMaggio, and simultaneously gives undue respect to Senator Lieberman. If my opinion counts for anything, I'd much rather you called him by the name they've applied at FDL - Holy Joe - which refers (I believe) to his throughgoing sanctimony. Or, maybe, "Holier-than-thou-Joe". From being a disloyal so-called Democrat trying to take the "moral high ground" by excoriating Bill Clinton in the context of the impeachment for getting a couple BJs, to facilitating religious discrimination (e.g., his support for releasing religious-run hospitals from any obligation to tell rape victims of where they can get emergency contraception or even how to get there, e.g., I believe he's supported the so-called faith-based initiatives, too), to his repeated excoriation of those who do not support the Unit's ongoing religious-based wars in the mid-East, Senator Lieberman has been one of the most sanctimonious, hypocritical and useless pieces of crap to ever decorate the floor of the Senate. He deserves only minimal respect, and using "Joltin' Joe" to describe him is more than he deserves. Moreover, "Joltin' Joe" implies a timely effectiveness (i.e., that he's a "clutch" player), reliability and winning attitude and history that Lieberman simply doesn't have. He hasn't been an effective legislator. Can you name one positive legislative development he's sponsored, shepherded and succeeded in getting passed? I can't. He can only be relied upon to dump the game in favor of the Rethugs while trying to have it both ways - viz. his voting to close debate on Alito, ensuring his confirmation, and then turning around to vote against Alito the next day. The baseball equivalent is hitting a solo home run to lead off the bottom of the seventh, while your team trails 5-0, but having earlier struck out with the bases loaded and two out in the fourth, when the game was 0-0 and then throwing to the wrong base in the fifth, opening the floodgates to the other team scoring all five runs. You get the stats for the home run and RBI, raise your batting average, no error for throwing to the wrong base, and your team still loses. It's a fundamentally selfish way to play (guaranteed to get you booed in Philly - ask Mike Schmidt) in that you get inflated stats (which you'll trumpet to managment when contract time comes up) and your team still loses. There comes a time when players like that must go. It's that time for Holy Joe. And, the only clutch I can think of him being in, is his kissing the Unit on the floor of the Senate, itself a disgusting image on so many levels. Oh, yeah. I wouldn't be surprised if DiMaggio trademarked "Joltin' Joe"; he was careful about things like that.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#4)
    by Joseph Hughes on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 05:28:47 AM EST
    The Republican rules of the game

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#5)
    by jondee on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 05:32:11 AM EST
    "Tail Wagger Joe"?

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 06:41:55 AM EST
    scribe - I won't touch your baseball analogy one bit (particuarly the part about not recieving an error when throwing to a wrong base - that would depend entirely on the circumstances).. I do have an problem with attacking Senator Lieberman for voting for cloture and then voting against the confirmation of then-Judge Alito. Senator Lieberman, one of the Gang of 14, agreed to oppose filabusters on specific nominees - and voting for cloture acheived this. He was free to vote against confirmation (which he did). I don't see why he would be criticized for this.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#7)
    by legion on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 07:26:56 AM EST
    CNN is now reporting that 'Kenny-Boy' Lay has died. No mention yet of cause. Talk amongst yourselves.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#8)
    by legion on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 07:37:44 AM EST
    Hmmm... Now Reuters is reporting it as a 'massive heart attack'.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#9)
    by scribe on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 07:39:00 AM EST
    croc: re scoring the error - I agree on "depends on the circumstances", but how many times have you seen a throw go to third (cleanly but late) and the trail runner go to second (and often then score). (Lots, I'm sure). No error scored, but plainly wrong (if only because it obviates the double play). Re: gang of 14 - the problem with the gang of 14 was that it tended to take the power from the minority, which was of dubious value. Moreover, Lieberman has shown (to my eyes) little hesitancy in breaking his promises in other contexts, his "I'm gonna petition so I can be on the ballot regardless of the primary result", so I see little honor in his selective abiding his promises. His abiding and standing by his promises seems to be directly coordinate to whether it benefits the Republicans or himself directly - when it does, he does. It's time for him to go.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#10)
    by desertswine on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 07:52:51 AM EST
    Kenny Boy will live on as a symbol of American corporate greed and avarice.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 08:05:11 AM EST
    Re: Kenny Boy
    Instant karma's gonna get you
    Gonna knock you right on the head
    You better get yourself together
    Pretty soon youre gonna be dead
    What in the world you thinking of
    Laughing in the face of love
    What on earth you tryin to do
    Its up to you, yeah you
    John Lennon

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 08:15:16 AM EST
    Kenny boy dieing saves Bush a pardon and at least we had the pleasure of having Ken Lay hear the verdict Guilty before he passed.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 08:16:29 AM EST
    scribe - Ah, in that case, fielder's choice, no out, no error. I think the Gang of 14 saved minority influence, as it pertains to judicial nominations. Without his compromise, I have no doubt that the "Nuclear Option" would have been evoked and the result would be even more costly for Democrats (not to mention these candidates would have still been confirmed). As far as Lieberman breaking promises, I can't speak to that. I think this was a stupid move on his part, a premature one and, ultimately, an unnecessary one. Oh well, either he will pay the price at the poll or he won't. I suspect his popularity and approval are sufficient to guarantee his reelection. Maybe you can answer this: I've read on this site (and others) where liberals/progressive chastise moderate-conservatives, who might not fully agree with all of President Bush's policies, for remaining loyal to him and the party. Is it not talking out of both sides of the mouth to require loyalty for Lieberman and CT voters while complaining about the partisan loyalty of conservatives?

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#14)
    by Liberal Heart on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 08:22:55 AM EST
    So..does * attend the funeral, thereby associating himself with the man from whom he has tried so hard to distance himself -- or does he not attend, and then look like a schmuck for not showing up to pay respects to someone who was a pal, not to mention a great source of funds?

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 08:28:59 AM EST
    I would say President Bush should attend his funeral. For all Lay's faults, he was still a friend. I don't see the problem in that.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#16)
    by Slado on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 08:52:41 AM EST
    Bush won't attend the funeral because it will be a "small family gathering" and if Bush did go it'd be a large production and then everyone who took money from him etc... would have to decide go or not to do?

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 08:57:36 AM EST
    Slado - You're probably right. Anyway, he wouldn't attend because of the contributions, he would attend because of their personal relationship. If one of my close friends killed someone, and was sentenced to life in prison, and later died, I would have no problem whatsoever attending his funeral.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#18)
    by Che's Lounge on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 08:59:37 AM EST
    Gee that's too bad. I wonder in which one of his Aspen homes he died?

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#19)
    by Slado on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 09:06:02 AM EST
    croc you are exactly right. Plus bush wouldn't care anyway. People already assume he was in kahootz with Lay so what does going to his funeral do? If he's invited he'll go because he's screwed either way by his critics.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#20)
    by ding7777 on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 09:19:31 AM EST
    to croc_choda
    Is it not talking out of both sides of the mouth to require loyalty for Lieberman and CT voters while complaining about the partisan loyalty of conservatives?
    Alito, Social Security, Bankruptcy. 3 Democratic Party issues. 3 anti-party votes on cloture. 3 meaningless pro-party final votes

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 09:22:16 AM EST
    ding7777 - You didn't answer the question you quoted. I'm not questioning the fact that Lieberman isn't a lock-step Democrat. What I'm questioning is why people criticize conservative for being lock-step Republicans.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#22)
    by Liberal Heart on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 09:28:09 AM EST
    Yes, Kenny Boy was a pal of Bush's. My point is that Bush went to great lengths to indicate he barely knew him once the Enron manure hit the fan. So does he buckle, and prove he lied about that, by attending the funeral -- or does he not go to keep from looking like he lied, even though everyone already knows he did. Bush's history of indicates he'd just ignore the funeral, pretend it wasn't going on, and if someone pointed it out to him, he'd say, "Ken who?"

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#23)
    by roxtar on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 09:32:53 AM EST
    I'd just as soon believe he died of uterine cancer, because he no more had a heart than he had a uterus.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#24)
    by scribe on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 11:45:39 AM EST
    Just on the wires: Limbaugh won't be charged for Viagra Some people....

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#25)
    by Jlvngstn on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 12:04:12 PM EST
    As well he shouldn't be charged. If I can buy OTC products that will allegedly give me more girth, more length and that extra size will make me irrestible to women, I ought to be able to buy something to make it work also. It is riduiculous to have Viagra as a scrip only drug, as if a perpetual hard-on poses a threat to anyone but the weiner itself.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#26)
    by peacrevol on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 12:22:54 PM EST
    i dont know jondee, it could be a problem to the carrier of the weiner...and...if all the length and gerth medicine worked, it might be a problem for the caregiver of the weiner too if you get my drift

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#27)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 12:44:21 PM EST
    Jlvngstn - But you told us that you had found nothing that worked. Are you holding out on us? :-) BTW - How'd you do in Vegas??

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#28)
    by Jlvngstn on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 01:17:32 PM EST
    jim - got killed. Finished 4th in one tourney (50 players) and first out in another and lastly, 3rd man out at my table at a 3 table tourney. Pocket rockets beat my suited big slick, completely missed the flush draw on the "first out" table and pocket queens beat big slick again for the 3rd. I cannot imagine the level of patience it takes to play in a big tourney, I was going nuts after 90 minutes of play. It was fun, but a fine lesson learned in my inability to play holdem. I got killed at Blackjack also, played for 5.5 hours and was 75 bucks up, and lost 600 in an hour. At one point I told the dealer, "you cannot win 9 hands in a row" to which she responded, "i can, I do and I am sorry" as she flipped over the ten to beat my 19. My hat goes off to the pros, I never really knew how tough it was until now.... Well, it is not that I have found one that works but if I do and one of the side effects is limpola, I want to make sure I can salute.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#29)
    by kdog on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 03:13:31 PM EST
    J...4th must have paid something, no? If not, 4 out of 50 ain't too shabby, you should be proud. And blackjack is evil..been there bro. As for my game, I'm happy to report I won my seat to the main event over the weekend. Talk about a dream come true, I'm still in shock. Atlantic City shut down today over the budget mess in NJ. That's gotta hurt the coffers.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#30)
    by kdog on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 03:17:42 PM EST
    Bush should go to the funeral...I'd go if he was my buddy. Bush has done far worse than roll with con artists, and taken worse heat.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#31)
    by scribe on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 03:59:54 PM EST
    VCR Alert - Tonight on PBS' Great Performances Bruce Springsteen, The Seeger Sessions, recorded live in London. 9 PM ET in NY area, check your local listings. TV critics say it starts off powerful and goes up from there. I've seen him in concert several times and each is a memory burnt deep - he leaves everything on the stage. One more reason for continuing public funding for PBS.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#32)
    by roy on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 04:32:59 PM EST
    Scribe, I hope you enjoy the show, but that's not a compelling reason to force -- I mean literally force, on penalty of imprisonment -- the rest of us to fund it. I didn't come to work almost on time today so people could hear "Part Man, Part Monkey" for free.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#34)
    by squeaky on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 09:20:45 PM EST
    From John Brown's PDPBR quote of the day:
    "I WONDER HOW MANY MEN HAD TO DIE TO GET THOSE COFFEE BEANS TO BAQUBAH?" --A Marine captain, regarding the fresh-brewed iced latte available at a Green Beans coffee shop at the U.S. base at Baqubah -- a far-from-pacified Iraqi city that was Abu Musab Zarqawi's last base of operations; cited in Max Boot, "Our Enemies Aren't Drinking Lattes" (Los Angeles Times, July 5) (see below item 46)
    Why is this a very good question? The key lies in the last paragraph of the linked LAT Max Boot op-ed:
    Our ability to move supplies is unparalleled in military history. Fighting guerrillas, on the other hand, has never been a mission that has found much favor with the armed forces. So logistics trumps strategy. Which may help explain why we're not having greater success in Iraq and Afghanistan.
    Max Boot As if we should be there in the first place, drinking lattes no less.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#35)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 06:01:54 AM EST
    Kdog, you won a seat in the big tourney? That is awesome. A friend of mine did last year and made it to day two, said that he was mentally exhausted and started missing hands even though there is a break every 2 hours. Best of luck bro and it would be awesome to see ya at the final table! 4th did not pay out, I got a handshake from pocket rockets who was really happy I didn't pull the flush..

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#36)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 08:26:39 AM EST
    kdog - Way to go and good luck.. When you win it all I will be sending you some great business opportunities...;-) Which Internet site?? Jlvngstn - I agree with kdog about blackjack... Do you rememver the blackjack scene in "National Lampoons' Las Vegas Vacation" with Chevy Chase??? I don't favor tournaments because they are such a physical drain and are mostly hours of pure boredom and seconds of stark terror. Besides, you can make good money in the ring games without the huge buy in.. unless you can win your way in.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#37)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 11:34:50 AM EST
    Jim, I was in the ring and perhaps I am just a hack but I spent a good 4-4.5 hours playing (4/8 limit) and made out about 40 bucks ahead. I don't like when I cannot play "all in" takes the whole bluff out of it and there were so many people there willing to lose a hundred bucks that they constantly played every hand. I got beat constantly by crappy hands I would have chased out at a NL table. IN fact, my pocket kings got beat by a two pair combo 9-2. What the heck is he doing staying in with a 9-2? On the other hand, on the NL tables I never finished higher than 4th so I don't know why I am complaining, I had the opportunity to play where I liked and twice got bumped early because I could not read the other player. I didn't see LV Vacation but will have to now to see someone else suffer as miserably as I did. 600 in an hour is more than a little embarassing........

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#38)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 03:44:16 PM EST
    Thanks JLV and Jim for the kind words...500 down, 8000 to go...lol. Scored my seat on Hollywood poker. If I crap out early, at least I get a free vacation and get to cross an item off the 'things to do in my lifetime' list.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#39)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 05:44:52 PM EST
    Jlvngstn - If you are going to play ring games play at least 15-30 or 20-40. My favorite is 40-80 or 75-150. Trust me. You can enforce a bluff with a $450 re-raise. The 4-8, 6-12 is just pure luck. You'll the movie.