"Things are a bit slow today... What the heck.... Think I'll google "digital Maoism?"

Do you have any insight in how NutFungus and Hinan could have obtained (or read) the medical report on or before March 23 when the subpoena for the report was only issued on March 21, the document wasn't printed until March 30 and wasn't picked up by Hinam until April 4, as I recall.

Giving Nifong the benefit of the doubt, Cheshire and Bannon conceded Thursday that he might have gone to Duke Hospital and viewed the accuser's medical records before police picked them up on April 5, or someone at Duke might have taken the records to Nifong or spoken with him about them.

imho cannot even get explanations for her typos right. There was no Nigerien team in the World Cup.

Giving Nifong the benefit of the doubt, Cheshire and Bannon conceded Thursday that he might have gone to Duke Hospital and viewed the accuser's medical records before police picked them up on April 5, or someone at Duke might have taken the records to Nifong or spoken with him about them.

It was a joke, Alan.

They don't mean or care about most of their points. They just like to yank you all around. This is probably the most attention either has ever received in their entire life. Isn't anonymity great? Fall for it you must (there's no news on this case), but don't treat it too seriously.

Did I say it was not? Is there a rule that the jokes of the Great and Powerful Imho are above satire?

So it hurts to see Alleva fail to get out of his own way

It's the "pile on" effect. The boating accident would have been barely newsworthy, but for the lacrosse case.

"Duke Dining/Durham Dollars" is a pilot program that introduces new students to the community. The students will only be able to use the money for food items at restaurants near campus around Ninth Street

It would have been more newsworthy than broomstick and cotton shirt remarks

Apparently Bissey, who was all ears, didn't. He didn't hesitate to report hearing the convoluted remark about thanking the grandfather for the nice cotton shirt.

I've never heard that one. It sounds to me like someone wanted to hurl a racial epithet but didn't know how.

Agreed, that is the only explanation for something so bizarre. I suspect that the insult came from someone who never really was around people who knew how to throw some insults. Like you, I have been around a lot of people who have hurled racial insults (all kinds Italian, Polish, Black, Jewish, Irish, Asian, etc.) back and forth and I have never heard anything as, well, well, can't come up with the right word -- "nerdy" maybe as that one.

No, I was one of those athletes that your buddy Starn doesn't like.

Made you respond! You are not following orders!

Some commenters here show up on the campy spyware.

Yes, dear. How could I withstand the powers of the Great and Powerful Imho, Delight and Terror of the Universe, who refers to Herself in the Third Person...

Posted by MrPrecedent July 6, 2006 10:26 AM From thinkandtype:

Most accounts of the nails in this case describe them as the former. I've never seen anything that would indicate they were the latter

. Do you recall WHERE or FROM WHOM you heard them described as the former?

imho: you quoted the harmful effects on Pressler's daughter. Have you given any thought to what Seligman's younger sisters are going through?

it (Duke) must also try to choose those students likely to accept admission

This case will be dropped or at least fast-tracked in the next several weeks and, in any event, before the next setting. Nifong knows that he cannot win a two way race against Cheek; the numbers just don't support it. Cheek will heavily carry the white Democrat vote and completely carry the Republican vote which did not even vote in the Democratic primary. Nifong can only count on carrying the black vote, but the black vote will not turn out in a high enough number to countervail the white vote. Add to this the Duke student vote (yes, they can and will vote) and Nifong knows he can't beat Cheek in November.

the bait is in the water, trolling slowly, fishing, fishing .

"Have you given any thought to what Seligman's younger siblings are going through?"

Without the rape allegation we all would not know what lurks in the heart of some of these young men.

chill me if you are serious, and appall me if you are making light.

So if the comments were not important enough to merit the attention of the public without the rape allegation, can we assume you (and others here) will stop obsessing over them if/when the rape is shown to be a hoax?

Now imho's pulling Seligman's younger brother to support her arguments?

It seems like a pretty straight forward "my grand-daddy owned your grand-daddy" taunt.

Maybe that's one good thing that could come of this debacle: many of us here who are white and even moderately privileged can and do feel for the Duke players who are just as white, and maybe even more privileged. And we, like they, see for the first time what it must have felt, easily might still feel, for a black person, who is less privileged, when the "system" takes hold of you.

Does anyone here understand the remark?

Newport, were you talking code to imho in that 9:45 post

Posted by SharonInJax July 6, 2006 09:38 PM Newport, please help me. I want to ignore imho. Bob in Pacifica, sensei, tell me how. I know I should. And I have, from time to time. I have been able to let it go, to see the snare before stepping into it. And then, sometimes, imho seems so nice, so lighthearted and so c'est le guerre at the same time, so human in the best sense. That's when I falter, because I fall back into thinking that I can reason with imho. And here we go again. "Fascination" isn't the word, imho, it's more like frustration. But either one, you love it. Comments like this, though: Without the rape allegation we all would not know what lurks in the heart of some of these young men. chill me if you are serious, and appall me if you are making light.

- but her true colors come out in threads like this and help explain why she is still single and childless. Until we get some real news and IMHO makes another one of her occasional posts with real substance, I won't be talking with imho.

Posted by david_in_ct July 6, 2006 10:22 PM imho: Does anyone here understand the remark? Perhaps the AV's grandfather owns a haberdashery in the Durham area. Additionaly, one of the lax players was a frequent and good customer. That afternoon the lax player had gone to the shop and picked out a fine cotton buttondown to wear to the evenings festivities. Unfortunately, he was short of funds and asked the grandfather if he might pay him Tuesday for a twill today. The grandfather agreed. Upon her disengagement from the party the AV found to her distress she could not give a proper refund because she had nothing small than hundred dollar bills. Being the part time accountant for her grandfather and knowing of the lax player's tab, she offered instead to square away his account. The lax player, appreciative of this gesture, replied loudly, "thank your grandfather ...."

Did you go to Duke? I hope so.

Just because something doesn't make the papers does not mean it is does not merit attention. These guys said this stuff. It is disturbing.

Do you think there was a racial element to the taunt?

Good work, Inspector.

I don't think they say much about anything.

Imho, since you have no reliable source that anybody ever actually made these remarks, I don't think they say much about anything.

She wasn't asked to pick three assailants out on 4/4, or to limit her answers to a specific window of time.

Pittman is the only source for the remark.

Interesting that she did not remember it until long after the event. It's the sort of thing you'd tend to remember, the sort of thing that would tend to stand out. If you were asked about that night, you might call the rape allegation a crock, but you'd still mention racial vilification that serious. You might even mention it when you were calling 911 and talking about racial vilification.

Interesting also, that, although it was 'hollered out' the neighbour did hear it or say anything about it. The neighbour, as I recall, did hear the cotton shirt remark and say something about it.

You don't think she discredited herself by initially claiming that she had never met the Accuser before giving her a ride to safety after randomly driving by and hearing the racial slurs?

The Defense only gave Dan Abrams 1200 or so pages of evidence, which we know is not all that they have received. To my knowledge, he did not mention whether he was allowed to view the videotapes and photos, or if he was, what they showed.

DAN ABRAMS, MSNBC GENERAL MANAGER: Well, Susan, it's good to be back on the program. I've got to say, we hear so many times on this program again and again, we talk about this case, well, we don't know everything...

FILAN: Right

ABRAMS: ... well, we haven't seen all the discovery. Well now I've seen them all. It's all numbered. Every page is numbered of the discovery. I've seen it all now everything that the D.A. handed over to the defense team, and this case is even weaker than I originally thought.

Posted by Newport July 7, 2006 02:11 AM Mr. P, what part of this do you not get through your thick numbskull head: The 4/4 procedure was a lineup because the FA identified her alleged attackers (all 4 of them) during this procedure.

Posted by Newport July 5, 2006 01:25 PM The DPD had no suspects other than all 46 members of the LAX team because the FA provided no description of her attackers other than "white boys." A rather interesting question arises, however, when one considers that the DPD did actually have three suspects given the FA's providing the attackers names to the police. The FA claimed that Bret, Matt and Dan/Adam raped her. It would seem to me that the appropriate way to proceed would be to do exactly as TL points out above with pictures of the three "suspects" and 5-8 fillers for each mug shot. I suspect this may have happened in the early lineups but no hits were registered. Thus, the opening up of the suspect list on the April 4 lineup to include all 46 members of the team relying on the false name theory, and pin the tail on the Dukie that followed.

I don't know that any police department has ever tried what Nifong and the DPD did here where only suspects and no fillers were used.

What use would someone who has NOT been CHARGED with a crime (i.e. the rest of the lacrosse team) have for a guarantee of a speedy trial?

Would you suggest that lineups be conducted with the presupposition that a crime did NOT occur, or that a potential suspect is NOT among the photos presented instead?

[the police investigator] attempted to minimize the possibility of a misstep by coaching the AV to concentrate, in the first place, on identifying those whose faces she remembered having seen at the party.

Since the stated purpose was to determine who she remembered seeing at the party, what is the problem with encouraging her to concentrate on that?

Also, it has been reported that Nifong has by now arrested all the witnesses associated with Precious: ex-husband, boy-friend, drivers, missing only the father of her children. We can expect Kim-like "improvements" of their initial statements.

The Defense is doing a great job of blindfolding the public and spinning the evidence, but we're not all playing their shell game.

As to the hearings next week, still just a load of discovery being produced or can we expect some meat in that bun?

Upon review, I think you will agree with me that this poster/Troll adds nothing to the useful discussion of the issues in this case and harms your forum's integrity.

Yesterday IMHO challenged anyone to cite any ethical rule that Nifong violated. Here's a link, IMHO, read it and see for yourself:

That's not what I asked.

From Ms. Pittman's handwritten police statement: I finally began leaving and the boys began yelling "N!gger" to us. I called the police to report racial slurs. Contrary to Alan claiming otherwise, Kim did report being called "N!gger" immediately. Also note here she says the boys BEGAN calling them "N!gger" and she called to report racial slurS [plural , more than one slur].

Don't be coy; if I didn't accurately paraphrase your question remind me what you did ask

Look it up.

If you don't think politics are behind Nifong, please skip this. I'm hoping some might be interested in exploring this line of thinking while we wait for new developments in the case. I think politics will heavily influence this case. I'm just not sure how.

I know TL says we are not to question your basis, shouldn't wonder about your bias, should leave alone the reasons for your attitude, and I accept that.

Why, then, are you so shy? TL lets you snipe from the bushes, but won't let the rest of us test your bias, your credibility, your frame of reference. Why do you not want to let the rest of us know something real about you?

Sharon, there is no mystery re imho. She is a common species of feminist frequently found in San Francisco. She has a same sex partner, if she has a partner at all, and she despises men who do not conform to her view of how a man should act. She especially despises white male Duke athletes who drink too much and are insensitive to the delicate sensibilities of Durham prostitutes. You are only egging her on by exposing your humanity. She eats that type of humanity for breakfast.

Everything that we've seen written in the papers and heard, certainly we've addressed that internally, and we're prepared to address it in court.

SKINN-ER!!!

Everything that we've seen written in the papers and heard, certainly we've addressed that internally, and we're prepared to address it in court.

SKINN-ER!!!

osted by inmyhumbleopinion July 7, 2006 04:30 PM Talk Left posted: Mr. Precedent posted over 30 comments in this thread alone that added nothing. They have been removed. He may return but is limited to five comments per thread. I am making these threads available for serious discussion about the case, not for chit chat and sniping at other commenters. Newport had posted 31 times on this thread:

IMHO, while TL's opinion is the only one that counts in this matter ,

but I agree with Newport that he is in almost all likely hood a troll, and maybe somebody's sockpuppet. And no, I do not refer to you, IMHO.

My first question, though, is to all... Why the animosity toward imho and the others who disagree with the majority on this board, up to and including actively trying to get at least some of these posters removed?

IMHO, in answer to your 4:30 post, yes. Mr. P's lengthy posts quoting others seemed pointless and added nothing.

BTW, your sense of denial is much healthier than mine; however, my standards for reliability seem to be quite a bit higher.

Angelfire, I think some of the posters here are frustrated with questionable logic, overemphasis on irrelevant details, complete disregard of very important facts (no DNA evidence), and the eagerness to vilify the lacrosse players for hiring attorneys and following their advice. There also seems to be a reluctance to put forth a theory of what might have happened which accounts for all the evidence presently known (falling back on "we just don't know"). In short, a tendency to attack others' positions without providing a justification for their own. I'm sure a new viewpoint would be welcome.

Posted by inmyhumbleopinion July 7, 2006 06:38 PM january posted: BTW, your sense of denial is much healthier than mine; however, my standards for reliability seem to be quite a bit higher. Interesting comment from someone who blindly believes Dan Abrams is telling us everything worth hearing.

Which facts support your belief that a rape occurred?

With Newport we don't get alot of rehashing of old arguments from weeks ago and we get fewer uncalled for personal attacks. A much better posting environment all around.

Sharon, there is no mystery re imho. She is a common species of feminist frequently found in San Francisco. She has a same sex partner, if she has a partner at all, and she despises men who do not conform to her view of how a man should act. She especially despises white male Duke athletes who drink too much and are insensitive to the delicate sensibilities of Durham prostitutes. You are only egging her on by exposing your humanity. She eats that type of humanity for breakfast.

Mr. Precedent posted over 30 comments in this thread alone that added nothing. They have been removed. He may return but is limited to five comments per thread.

I am making these threads available for serious discussion about the case, not for chit chat and sniping at other commenters.

[TL:repeat of newport's comments deleted, it you have a problem with a comment, email me and I'll delete it if it violates the spirit or letter of the rules.]

...some of the AV supporters act like they despise Duke. Their comments are offensive.

Sharon, there is no mystery re imho. She is a common species of feminist frequently found in San Francisco. She has a same sex partner, if she has a partner at all, and she despises men who do not conform to her view of how a man should act. She especially despises white male Duke athletes who drink too much and are insensitive to the delicate sensibilities of Durham prostitutes. You are only egging her on by exposing your humanity. She eats that type of humanity for breakfast.

m sorry that I can't answer your question with a concrete "Here's facts A, B, and C that make me believe she was raped", it has more to do with her actions afterward ringing so true to me, and the methods and tactics of the defense and those "on the side of" the players that have me currently holding the position that she is telling the truth. I don't have enough facts yet to mentally convict anyone, but I do have my opinion based on, admittedly, personal experience. I do question the prosecution, but right now I have a much more critical eye on the defense. There are some problems there that nobody seems to have noticed, or are talking about. I'd like to air them.

angelfire44, I didn't greet you because I don't know what to make of you. You appear at a suspicious time, right after a very prolific yet a bit trollish poster is comment-limited.

For lacrosse to kick loose the Duke dirt, it's going to have to come up with a compelling national image-one that emphasizes the players bleed red, not blue.

Did you find this post offensive? [followed by quotation of offensive post]

Newport had 31 for the same time period. Only a handful of Newport's are on topic. Most are about sports and Duke.

164. Posted by inmyhumbleopinion July 7, 2006 09:23 PM cib, Do you have a source for that rambling quote? Who wrote it? Leave a Comment

Scrutinizer - IMHO is quoting Newport accurately. While I am too lazy to track it down, I do remember reading it. IMHO has proven to be a very reliable archivor of Duke threads on this site. While in my estimation she does sometimes take posts out of context, she has never to my knowledge made anything up.

IMHO can be slippery, but she is not a liar.

Just out of curiosity, when did Newport post that? Did TL delete it? 'Cause I didn't see it in this thread, nor the previous two, although it's possible I missed it---scrolling through all this stuff is a challenge. I have seen you quote this remark three times today. If the comment was made then deleted, then you're just throwing oil on the fire

Unless some of his comments were deleted, almost everything I've seen him post today has been either on-topic, or he's just been following the thread as it meandered off-topic. (Speaking of off-topic, how was the discussion of Duke admin policy on-topic?) Mr. P's posts were for the most part just mean-spirited trolling.

Could someone other than inmyhorribleopinion explain this gem? Sorry but I don't get it.

You are WAY too nice and WAY too sincere Sharon. People like imho pray on people like you -- find the strength to swim away, look but don't take the hook.

Newport, were you talking code to imho in that 9:45 post

Oh, no, sorry. I was actually just throwing in that dreaded phrase in my post. Had nothing to do with the Wretched One.

Sharon, these people don't care about any of the things you keep raising. They only care about trying to vilify people they don't like for whatever reason. Mostly that they are white males that supposedly have rich parents. They make attractive targets to the imho's and Mr. P's of the world along with the gang of 88. These people have their own agenda which SomewhatChunky so eloquently wrote about. Let's face facts here. Thank God they don't have a case against the boys, you can imagine what they would be saying if there was any evidence to suggest someone might have raped the FA.

Posted by Newport July 7, 2006 01:40 PM MrP

(Speaking of off-topic, how was the discussion of Duke admin policy on-topic?)

"look at how woefully I was treated") is just waving the "victim" flag.

I do not know how closely you monitor this discussion so I bring this matter to your attention for your benefit as you have expressed concern over waste of bandwidth and misuse of the forum in the past.

Many insults have been hurled back and forth in this thread by the AV/FA camps, and imho has been in there swinging too.

Interesting comment from someone who blindly believes Dan Abrams is telling us everything worth hearing.

IMHO can be slippery, but she is not a liar.

Difficult for you, apparently, since you don't like what he said.

It looks like Talk Left went back and scrubbed a lot of posts, some of mine, some of imho's, and a fair number of others. It was an appropriate way to handle the situation.

Regarding Nifong's political support, I don't necessarily think that his supporters in the election are going to stick with him. I expect a lot of erosion of his support as the case continues to implode