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If the War Spreads: Will We See a Draft?

By Jeralyn, Section Military Draft
Posted on Sun Jul 16, 2006 at 01:37:09 PM EST
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Dave of Seeing the Forest reprints his 2004 post on the military draft and says it is just as important now. I agree. We need to keep Bush in check and vote these guys out. If you are draft-age, or like me, have a kid who is, pay attention.

A collection of my posts on the draft is here.

Here are some details of post-9/11 bills calling for the draft. More here.

Where's Country Joe when we need him? And Arlo? And Bruce? (scroll to the bottom for that one.)

I don't buy the spin that if we had a draft and endangered the kids of Republican congresspersons and senators, they'd be less likely to vote for war. They'd either wear their kids' service like a badge or find a way, as they usually do, to get their kids out from having to serve. Alternative service is one thing, and I'm for that, but a military draft is just going to result in more young kids, particularly the poor, dying, losing limbs and coming home PTSD'd to a life they can't adjust to, particularly since our government has a lousy history of supporting veterans.

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    If the War Spreads: Will We See a Draft? | 52 comments (52 topical)
    Re: If the War Spreads: Will We See a Draft? (none / 0) (#1)
    by cmpnwtr on Sun Jul 16, 2006 at 01:56:06 PM EST
    Not a chance! Any party who votes in the draft is gone. The repugs love war as long as it doesn't cost them anything. My repug relatives think it's great to send other folks' kids to die, just not their own.

    Re: If the War Spreads: Will We See a Draft? (none / 0) (#2)
    by squeaky on Sun Jul 16, 2006 at 02:23:41 PM EST
    I think that an excellent strategy for the Dems is to ask how the war party can continue without a draft. Forcing the issue of a draft while calling for the end to the war is a sure fire win for the dems. Americans are too isolated to care about a volunteer army killing and getting killed in our name. Put the draft on the table and the sleepy war apologists will wake up but quick. They will vote for any party that ensures their son's and daughter's blood will not be spilled just to keep their gas guzzling SUV's on the road. As long as the other kids (lower class) are fighting the war, the mantra will be, "those terrorists are not going to take our lifestyle from us". Talk of conscription will open the doors to talk of conservation and peace.

    Re: If the War Spreads: Will We See a Draft? (none / 0) (#3)
    by ras on Sun Jul 16, 2006 at 02:31:03 PM EST
    Here we go again ♫ La la la la la ♫ [must be an election year]

    Re: If the War Spreads: Will We See a Draft? (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jul 16, 2006 at 02:55:08 PM EST
    What tipped you off? Gay marriage hysteria and the flag burning debate? The overuse of the military, unlike those two things, is an actual issue. Yes, it's very unlikely that a draft would ever return because, as cmpnwtr pointed out, for it to come back at least one party has to commit political suicide. I'm not sure how we'll be able to continue using the military in such an irresponsible way without a draft, though. Keep lowering recruitment standards? More stop-loss?

    Re: If the War Spreads: Will We See a Draft? (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jul 16, 2006 at 02:56:52 PM EST
    I used to think that a draft was inevitable but I'm not sure that's true anymore. I agree with the political consequences that have been mentioned. Squeaky's suggestion would probably be effective if the Ds could all agree to do it. Too many PMCs have been created in the past 6 years and a draft would cut into their profits. These private armies will go to the best offer, too, so these wars can be fought by groups of wealthy idealogues using countries as fronts. This has been part of the problem in Iraq in that PMCs are seen as American but they have complete immunity from prosecution. It's naive to think that for-profit armies are not influenced by money that can change their loyalties. Our armed forces can't keep some of our best people because they're getting better offers in the private sector.

    Re: If the War Spreads: Will We See a Draft? (none / 0) (#6)
    by glanton on Sun Jul 16, 2006 at 02:59:54 PM EST
    [must be an election year]
    And this, coming from one who takes seriously the routinely even-yeared hysteria over such "big issues" as gay marriage, flag burning, and making English the national language. At least people worried about a draft are worrying about something truly dangerous, something truly capable of tearing families apart. Let us all hope it never happens. But no worries, ras. Stay alert, and stay with Fox.

    Re: If the War Spreads: Will We See a Draft? (none / 0) (#7)
    by glanton on Sun Jul 16, 2006 at 03:02:00 PM EST
    durn. c-law beat me to it by an eyelash. Oh well, that's what's great about truth, it's there for all to see. :-)

    Re: If the War Spreads: Will We See a Draft? (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jul 16, 2006 at 03:30:29 PM EST
    We have to have a draft. Mr Bush has put us in too much danger and this situation needs to be wound down. Then after that we need to pay serious reparations to the Iraqi people, up to and including the rebuilding for their infrastructure. It wouldn't be a bad idea to transfer a few irreplacable artifacts from the Smithsonian Institute, either. It's the least we could do after looting their museums and burning all those Korans. There is no other way to really fix this mess.

    Re: If the War Spreads: Will We See a Draft? (none / 0) (#10)
    by Strick on Sun Jul 16, 2006 at 04:28:07 PM EST
    The odds against the draft returning are slightly higher than the US returning to the gold standard, but neither seems likely even under the current circumstances. Or should I say especially under the current circumstances. After all the military hates the idea even more than the public and with recruiting meeting all its objectives and re-enlistments at extremely high levels, there's just no reason for it. We could expand the military if we wanted without a draft pretty much any time we want (well, given a couple of years, faster than we could with a draft). It was much, much larger and all volunteer in the 80s, right? Why pretend a draft would be necessary to return to those levels? That's assuming we wanted to, of course. In the last 20 years armies have become like computers, where there are more important things than physical size. This kind of talks is sort of the left's version of fear mongering.

    Re: If the War Spreads: Will We See a Draft? (none / 0) (#11)
    by ras on Sun Jul 16, 2006 at 04:33:29 PM EST
    Glanton, Actually, you're welcome to burn flags and I think it's a waste of time to worry about it; I could care less if two guys wanna shack up together; and English already is your national language. As for Fox, I haven't seen it up here in Canada, but then again I almost never watch the tube, either. So ... you stereotyped your way to four conclusions and got them all wrong, every one. There's a clue in that as to why Dems keep losing elections, but you'll have to figure out the rest for yourself. Me, I'm gonna resume my daily pastimes of nailing kittens to doors and laughing at the plight of the proletariat.

    Re: If the War Spreads: Will We See a Draft? (none / 0) (#12)
    by Gary Sugar on Sun Jul 16, 2006 at 04:39:04 PM EST
    Heh, I don't think we'll see a draft. Oddly, nearly all Americans prefer watching their wars on TV. Thank goodness for that.

    Re: If the War Spreads: Will We See a Draft? (none / 0) (#13)
    by jen on Sun Jul 16, 2006 at 05:00:30 PM EST
    ras, explain why flag burning and gay marriage issues are cosidered so important in congress then.

    Re: If the War Spreads: Will We See a Draft? (none / 0) (#14)
    by glanton on Sun Jul 16, 2006 at 05:08:50 PM EST
    ras, ras, ras. Many have been the threads on Talk left pointing up the gay marriage flag burning firrenners hysterics. Never have I seen a peep out of you on those threads with a comment to the effect of "must be an election year." But here the draft topic comes up, for reasons demonstrably solid, and you, who have defended the fear-mongering, distraction creating GOP down to the very ground, pop out and accuse someone of fear-mongering anmd distracting. As for your comment about not watching FOX, that doesn't change the fact that your comments indicate you to be staying with FOX, and with the diseased trends that have given rise to FOX, just fine. All you have to do then is stay alert and you'll have sealed the deal.

    Re: If the War Spreads: Will We See a Draft? (none / 0) (#15)
    by jondee on Sun Jul 16, 2006 at 05:12:57 PM EST
    He knows no gay/abortion/flag burning hysteria; no "regime change", but dont expect any intellectual honesty about it. You're talking to a guy who once announced to all and sundry here that it had been definitivly proven that Iraq's wmds were moved by the Russians to Syria.

    Re: If the War Spreads: Will We See a Draft? (none / 0) (#16)
    by glanton on Sun Jul 16, 2006 at 05:29:46 PM EST
    Jondee, I know it. But it's still staggering how someone can lend comfort (through voting, sending money, or just plain rhetoric) to the GOP and then expect to be taken seriously when attempting to criticize fear-mongering. It's about as ridiculous as if he tried to speak on behalf of, say, gay and women's rights.

    Re: If the War Spreads: Will We See a Draft? (none / 0) (#17)
    by soccerdad on Sun Jul 16, 2006 at 07:40:32 PM EST
    The people who dont think there will be a draft you dont know much about how this works. There will be a draft and the US will be behind it. This whole thing is about to spiral out of control. The US will attack Iran. That will cause escalation in Iraq, and US soldiers will start to get killed at a much faster rate. There will be either either a real [pay back for a nuclear attack on Iran] or staged [ see the Northwoods plan] terror attack of significant magnitude in the US where thousands of citizens are killed. By that time everyone will be out in the street calling for war. Its all very simple, variations on this have been done before. The propaganda machine is in place, the fear is up, all Bush needs is an incident to instill the right amount of fear and Armegeddon here we come. BTW the centerist Dems that the right keeps telling us to elect will be right on board calling for the war. Since there interest will be the same as Bush. They have decided to go for broke. A US dominated peaceful world or no world. Better hope you get raptured.

    Re: If the War Spreads: Will We See a Draft? (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jul 16, 2006 at 08:02:32 PM EST
    Ahh, that hardy perennial: "Oh No, The Draft!" Your regular anti-Bush stuff must not be working out...

    Re: If the War Spreads: Will We See a Draft? (none / 0) (#19)
    by Bob In Pacifica on Sun Jul 16, 2006 at 08:03:16 PM EST
    I don't expect a draft. There are other options. For ex: The army can start forming units of people from poor countries. They can get poor semi-starving folks from south of the border, give them three squares and money to send home, and let them go out and die for America's corporate needs. Don't forget the Hessians. It's been done before. Then the Brits filled their ranks with folks from the Commonwealth for centuries. Besides, the way the economy is moving, there'll be a permanent underclass right here to fill the corporatists' every need.

    Re: If the War Spreads: Will We See a Draft? (none / 0) (#20)
    by soccerdad on Sun Jul 16, 2006 at 08:16:26 PM EST
    Besides, the way the economy is moving, there'll be a permanent underclass right here to fill the corporatists' every need.
    But you cant run it without energy. If you have listened to the neocons then after Iran and Syria the next enemy will be China. Its going to ll or nothing

    Re: If the War Spreads: Will We See a Draft? (none / 0) (#21)
    by jimcee on Sun Jul 16, 2006 at 08:37:25 PM EST
    Er, perhaps this rings with a certain sterotypical demographic that someone wishes to appeal to. Add one part fear, one part inexperience and one part hyperbole you end up with.... 'I don't want my kid to be drafted!' No one does and I felt the same way when the US liberated Bosnia-Herzigovina and occupied Kosovo and I had a 'draft aged' son. Didn't happen but we still 'occupy' Bosnia, go figure. This kind of cheap agitprop is best reserved for less serious sites than TL such as DU.

    Re: If the War Spreads: Will We See a Draft? (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jul 16, 2006 at 08:54:49 PM EST
    In the early part of the Iraq war reports were that Rumsfeldt was distracted by a pet project creating a 3rd world mercenary army. Canada told the US to stop recruiting inside Canada. Were there other countries that did not object? Dangle a chance to become a US citizen in front of the recruits and see what happens. Are these Bush's "guest workers that he is so concerned about. There have been reports of alien soldiers in our service getting killed or wounded that are not in the statistics released. They don't exist even when they are killed.

    Re: If the War Spreads: Will We See a Draft? (none / 0) (#9)
    by cowboyneok on Sun Jul 16, 2006 at 09:10:29 PM EST
    deleted

    Re: If the War Spreads: Will We See a Draft? (none / 0) (#23)
    by Rational on Sun Jul 16, 2006 at 09:46:18 PM EST
    I know this is an unpopular position but I have always felt the abolishment of the draft was a serious error. It created a divide between the citizenry and the military. It has eliminated a cross class/social lines experience that limited the isolation the upper middle and upper classes try to cocoon themselves in. It made the general populace more detached from those that are getting injured or killed as a result of our country's policy's. It has left the military to those who want to fight and thrive in a strict hierarchial system. These sort of people can be threat to democraacy if allowed to create an infrastructure of force. A number of other reasons but most of the others are variations on the above themes.

    Re: If the War Spreads: Will We See a Draft? (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jul 16, 2006 at 09:58:43 PM EST
    There's now way that they will institute a draft. Two main reasons why. 1) It will get extremely poor support from the people (I know, I know - that doesn't seem to be a deterent lately). 2) A civilian army is simply not effective. Civilians will desert, they will frag, they will lose interest as the population loses interest. It'll be Vietnam all over again.

    Re: If the War Spreads: Will We See a Draft? (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jul 16, 2006 at 10:06:41 PM EST
    No draft. Ever. There will be blood in the streets of the town of New Haven before we get another draft. However, Israel IS doing just about everything it can possibly come up with to give the US as many excuses as possible to launch a pre-emptive strike on Iran. And perhaps Syria, too. It would be a neat way to tie up all those nasty loose ends: Syria to Iraq to Iran to Afghanistan to Pakistan. Let's just bomb it all and rechristen it Rumsfeldistan. Cool.

    Re: If the War Spreads: Will We See a Draft? (none / 0) (#26)
    by ras on Sun Jul 16, 2006 at 10:41:18 PM EST
    Jen, explain why flag burning and gay marriage issues are cosidered so important in congress then. The flag burning amendment? It was defeated, I thought. Can I charitably presume you meant to use the past tense? [alright, then, I will!] Anyway, it's an emotional hot button for some folks. But not for me, which was my pt to Glanton about stereotyping. Ditto gay marriage, altho in that case the issue is more one of pre-empting judges who want to legislate from the bench. It could easily be called the "we think our judiciary no longer respects its role" amendment. But again. Glanton chose to stereotype. If he were correct, I would not have written what I did, and ditto again for the other issues he cited. Stereotyping is counterproductive and often downright harmful; it needs to be resisted.

    Re: If the War Spreads: Will We See a Draft? (none / 0) (#27)
    by HK on Mon Jul 17, 2006 at 05:03:54 AM EST
    Much as I love America, much has happened in the past couple of years that has made me glad I don't live there. This comes pretty near the top of the list. Conscription and conscientious objectors are aspects of history that interest me greatly. Frankly, if the past is anything to go by, a draft will be the stuff of nightmares. I hope it won't happen. I hope that Bush will see sense or get voted out before he has a chance to do this. My grandfather was a very peaceful man. He signed up to the army to fight in WWII because he knew that a draft was coming and wanted to have some choice in which part of the military he was to serve in. He was present in the Normandy landings on D-Day, although his craft was not at the front and ended up landing a few days after the initial troops landed, a delay which probably saved his life. I never asked him about his experience of the war; at times such as Rememberance Sunday, the expression on his face said it all. It is bad enough that soldiers have to fight in this pumped-up game of toy soldiers Bush has created. Don't send civilians in too.

    Re: If the War Spreads: Will We See a Draft? (none / 0) (#28)
    by Rational on Mon Jul 17, 2006 at 05:20:43 AM EST
    "2) A civilian army is simply not effective. Civilians will desert, they will frag, they will lose interest as the population loses interest. It'll be Vietnam all over again." First off it was "civilian army's that won the Civil War, WW I, WW II and held the line in Korea. It is exactly the reasons you cite about them reflecting the citizens interest in Viet Nam that is the strength of Civilian army's not their weakness's. If a war is unpopular and not one that we should be involved in a "civilian" army would be a brake on chicken hawks pursueing a reckless and dangerous course with little support from the nation. It is the present merc force of hired killers who torture and murder on command with impunity that make the disatrous course we are pursueing possible. Give me a civilian force that will say No when the leaders are wrong rather then a bunch of people aching for a fight so they can play with all thier expensive toys and revel in thier bloodthirstyness.

    Re: If the War Spreads: Will We See a Draft? (none / 0) (#29)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jul 17, 2006 at 05:40:45 AM EST
    Lavocat - I guess kidnapping Israeli soldiers have nothing to do with it. Eh? Rational - Agreed. We need Universal Military Service. leftout - Can you provide some proof re Rumsfeld re recruiting? No? Thought not. BTW - You do not have to be a citizen to serve, just as you don't have to be a citizen to live here. All you have to do is join and be accepted. SD - Are you Chinaphobic?

    Re: If the War Spreads: Will We See a Draft? (none / 0) (#30)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Jul 17, 2006 at 05:41:17 AM EST
    Ras, judges "legislate from the bench" ALL THE TIME. In interpreting the law, especially those that are vague, unclear, or constitutionally unsound, judges shape the law constantly. It's called judge-made law. The right has no problem going to court to litigate their issues. It's funny how it's never called "legislating from the bench" until someone from the right doesn't like the "legislation"

    Re: If the War Spreads: Will We See a Draft? (none / 0) (#31)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Jul 17, 2006 at 05:45:15 AM EST
    We must absolutely under no circumstances accept a draft if we attack Iran. We must fight it as hard as we can, and smuggle draftees as far away as we can if we do that. I'm provisionally in favor of a draft to clean up Iraq and Afghanistan. But there are all sorts of things to follow up on if we're to accept it as liberals. On the other hand, a good President who inspires our young people to service could get it all cleaned up without one. Such a president, of course, would also be able to raise a meanginful 'coalition of the willing.'

    Re: If the War Spreads: Will We See a Draft? (none / 0) (#32)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Jul 17, 2006 at 05:55:24 AM EST
    BTW the centerist Dems that the right keeps telling us to elect will be right on board calling for the war. Since there interest will be the same as Bush. They have decided to go for broke. A US dominated peaceful world or no world.
    Soccerdad may very well be right. I know he is about Billary. You know, it just occurred to me that our elites(sic) may be behind the scenes orchestrating these latest Israeli attacks. They certainly could lead to all sorts of convenient excuses.

    Re: If the War Spreads: Will We See a Draft? (none / 0) (#33)
    by Bob In Pacifica on Mon Jul 17, 2006 at 07:47:12 AM EST
    I had my tongue partly in my cheek when I talked about forming Hessian battalions. Looks like it may be happening. There's the occasional story about the Marine who's killed and buried and then his family is deported. I was #1 in Nixon's lottery, and as much as I would have liked to have avoided it, I ended up in the army, although I technically was a "volunteer" when I finally surrendered and went in. I think that there was a lot more cynicism within the military back then, a lot less gullibility about war aims, etc. I can remember finishing my duties and coming back to my barracks and listening to the latest daily updates on the Watergate hearings. Now those were the days!

    Re: If the War Spreads: Will We See a Draft? (none / 0) (#34)
    by soccerdad on Mon Jul 17, 2006 at 07:58:29 AM EST
    SD - Are you Chinaphobic?
    no but the neocons are. You read that crap you know it as well as I.
    We need Universal Military Service
    absolutely not, we have enough agression and mindless wars of agression as it is.

    Re: If the War Spreads: Will We See a Draft? (none / 0) (#35)
    by Deconstructionist on Mon Jul 17, 2006 at 08:04:58 AM EST
    There are sound policy and political/social arguments to be made in favor a of a military draft. Among the strongest is the argument that if everyone was subject to being called for service, leaders would likely be more restrained in making that service involve combat and high risk of death. The "socialization" advantages of bringing people from very diverse backgrouinds together to share the same burden is a good one too. The economic advantage of removing a significant portion of the population from the civilian labor force is, obviously, a lower unemployment rate. military spending in general is also beneficial to the economy whether wages or the purchase of goods and services from the private sector. On the other hand, compulsory burden sharing is by definition "anti-lberty" and even comnpelling policy and political/social reasons are not necessarily sufficient to offset that.

    Re: If the War Spreads: Will We See a Draft? (none / 0) (#36)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Jul 17, 2006 at 09:16:40 AM EST
    Bob in Pacifica: A link please.

    Re: If the War Spreads: Will We See a Draft? (none / 0) (#37)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Jul 17, 2006 at 09:44:23 AM EST
    Rational, The reasons you cite are exactly why there will never be a draft again. Why would the military want what you just said? See?

    Re: If the War Spreads: Will We See a Draft? (none / 0) (#38)
    by soccerdad on Mon Jul 17, 2006 at 09:57:13 AM EST
    If the war continues to expand the cannon fodder has to come from somewhere, but maybe an economic collapse [for lower and middle class] would do. Then people with no money would join the military to support their families.

    Re: If the War Spreads: Will We See a Draft? (none / 0) (#39)
    by Rational on Mon Jul 17, 2006 at 11:07:07 AM EST
    "The reasons you cite are exactly why there will never be a draft again. Why would the military want what you just said? See?" We seem to have forgotten that the military is a tool of society. Society does not exist to feather the military's bed. An important sign of a society's corruption is when the military starts to assume a dominant role and dictate to those it is suppose to protect the terms of the "proctection" money it is demanding. So what if the merc's of today don't want a civilian army? It is not their place to choose. By having more "civilians" in the military there would be less corruption since draftees would be more willing to blow the whistle without worrying if that would be a career ending decision. Unlike today where corruption is rampant because the career merc's don't want to offend the powers that be. Right off the bat the military by reassuming some of its traditional logistical roles could grow dramactically and would still probably save money by not allowing Halliburton to use those food and logistical contracts as a license to steal. Historically I cannot think of a major american war where there was not at least one battle saved or won by putting the cooks and truckdrivers in the line. By surrendering these roles to 3rd world personel under sub-sub- contract to a Halliburton slave labor corp. the US military has significantly less flexibility and capability. Public service and Public accountability should be part of the foundation of a healthy body politic. By removing these foundation stones of our society we are undermining our democracy. I agree that a draft should not be brought in to enable a war in Iran but I maintain a draft would help prevent a war in Iran. If instead of only 1 or 2 people such as Lt. Watabi ( sic) an american hero trying to obey the UCMJ and US treaty obligations by refusing to participiate in an illegal war if there were hundreds or thousands like him, such as there were at the end of Viet Nam, this misadventure would end sooner.

    Re: If the War Spreads: Will We See a Draft? (none / 0) (#40)
    by kdog on Mon Jul 17, 2006 at 11:48:35 AM EST
    I welcome a draft as it would energize those of draft age to pay attention to what our govt. is up to. Draftess would refuse to serve thousands of miles from home for dubious reasoning...and maybe we could see some change for the better.

    Re: If the War Spreads: Will We See a Draft? (none / 0) (#41)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Jul 17, 2006 at 06:39:11 PM EST
    PPJ: Ever the grasper of straws, I see. Yes, Jim, beyond those few trees, there IS a forest.

    Re: If the War Spreads: Will We See a Draft? (none / 0) (#42)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Jul 17, 2006 at 07:21:43 PM EST
    I personally support a civilian army because of the fact it would hopefully prevent more war. But, realistically, I don't see it happening because of how powerful the military is in this country. And I agree with you there also; it's a terrible sign for our country and the world that the military is as powerful as it is.

    Re: If the War Spreads: Will We See a Draft? (none / 0) (#43)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jul 17, 2006 at 07:42:03 PM EST
    rational writes:
    So what if the merc's of today don't want a civilian army? It is not their place to choose.
    Uh, rational you are edging towards adding a "ir" to your name. Stop and think. Those "merc's" are volunteers. When their contract is up, they can leave. So you have to consider their wants and needs. So what's wrong with Universal Service? Everyone upon graduation from High Scool, or after age 18, goes in for two years. After that they do two weeks/year of training until age 30, plus 6 weeks at year 4 and year 8. Only those with severe physical and mental handicaps would be excused. This would give us a pool of trained persons to draw from if needed, and it would give people such as you who apparently have no idea of what the military is like, some valuable insights. It would also add some different views to the military, because the option to move from UMS to regular military would be there. You probably would be astounded just how smart those middle and lower class kids really are. Just how solid are their values. Heck, you might figure out we need more people like them and less like you. SD - The military has always been an honorable way to improve one's life, which is why it has always been full of Scot-Irish from the south. Why do you think I joined? Easy. No jobs, no future. Then I figured out that I could get Uncle to pay for my education. Heck, I would have kicked the door down. Come to think of it, I almost did. BTW - You don't want a draft, and you don't want a volunteer army and you don't want ...... national defense. SD, I thought you were a northeasterner, but you got to live in Baghdad by the bay....If not physically, then mentally. Channel some of that great seafood... And don't look now, but there's a Chinaman siphoning your gas. Boo! Bob in Pacifica writes:
    Now those were the days!
    Really? The country was being torn apart and the Left's antics were extending the war and causing American troops to be killed. You have a strange sense of nostalgia. BTW - I second Wile's calls for a link. Lavocat - And your point is? Or are you just trying to match the infamous, "Food is," saying from the 60's. Of course it was. Mommy and Daddy were paying for it, eh Bob in Pacifica?

    Re: If the War Spreads: Will We See a Draft? (none / 0) (#44)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jul 17, 2006 at 07:54:24 PM EST
    rational - One more thing. Let me assure you that the one thing that any marine, army, navy, air force person DOESN'T want is someone beside him who isn't trained. All that is going to do is get two people killed. Let me recommend the book, "Band of Brothers." It should provide you with some valuable insights.

    Re: If the War Spreads: Will We See a Draft? (none / 0) (#45)
    by soccerdad on Mon Jul 17, 2006 at 07:58:58 PM EST
    PPJ why are you always so eager to show off your ignorance?

    Re: If the War Spreads: Will We See a Draft? (none / 0) (#46)
    by soccerdad on Mon Jul 17, 2006 at 08:00:22 PM EST
    don't want a volunteer army
    oh and as usual you are still lying - but what else is new.

    Re: If the War Spreads: Will We See a Draft? (none / 0) (#47)
    by Rational on Mon Jul 17, 2006 at 10:43:29 PM EST
    Merc's are "soldiers for hire" who sign up for set periods for money. People join the army for jobs ( money) " Now those were the days! Really? The country was being torn apart and the Left's antics were extending the war and causing American troops to be killed." Actually you have it backwards the right by pursueing a failed policy with failed strategy were the ones responsible for american troops being killed. the failure to recognize this fact ranks up there with the Germans myth of the 1918 "Stab in the back" of politically motivated lies. The left was trying to stop the slaughter by shutting down a failed war pursued with a failed strategy by right wing politico's more interested in personal political gains rather then the lives of our soldiers and the oppositions civilians. This myth is a blatant lie ( Like the nonexistent "stab in the back" of 1918) and fools who have bought into it (i.e. the U.S. chickenhawk administration and like webb in Virginia) have caused untold damage to our country and the world. The military in a democratic society is like Curare in medicine when used under tight control in limited amounts it can be curative but it must never be forgotten that like curare it is basically a poision and antithetical to a healthy society.

    Re: If the War Spreads: Will We See a Draft? (none / 0) (#48)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Jul 18, 2006 at 11:04:41 AM EST
    SD - I have commented for over two years that I thought Universal Military Service was the way to go. I'll be happy to link to some if you will: a. Apologize for your ignorance. b. Donate $20. to Talk Left for every link I produce. A free sample:
    Posted by Poker Player (aka Jim) May 5, 2004 10:26 AM Dearest No Name Universal Military Service as a concept provides that everyone has a piece of the action.
    rational - "Mercenary" is a derogatory term. Why do you use it to destcribe our military members? Come on now, tell us how you support the troops. And the Left's actions in Vietnam did cause an extension of the war becasue the North to understand that they could win through politics. You know it, I know it, That's why you get so excercised about the subject.

    Re: If the War Spreads: Will We See a Draft? (none / 0) (#49)
    by roy on Tue Jul 18, 2006 at 11:15:07 AM EST
    rational,
    Merc's are "soldiers for hire" who sign up for set periods for money.
    Not according to the dictionary:
    1. Motivated solely by a desire for monetary or material gain. 2. Hired for service in a foreign army.
    Emphasis added. I checked a couple dictionaries, they're pretty consistent. Which defintion do you accuse our troops of meeting?

    Re: If the War Spreads: Will We See a Draft? (none / 0) (#50)
    by soccerdad on Tue Jul 18, 2006 at 11:40:30 AM EST
    ppj the ignorance comment was directed at your China comment, not the military service. I should have made that clearer.

    Re: If the War Spreads: Will We See a Draft? (none / 0) (#51)
    by HK on Tue Jul 18, 2006 at 01:00:14 PM EST
    Jim, I don't quite get your reasoning over the idea of compulsory military service. Do you think people should be forced to train as medical personnel too to give them some 'valuable insights'? Would it be a good idea if there were a shortage of doctors to make everyone have a go? The fact is that not everyone is cut out for every occupation. There are lots of experiences that would give people the valuable insights you mention. Yes, some people are lazy and complacent and may benefit from a spell in the armed forces, but some of us seek to enrichen our lives elsewhere. Just because it was good for you doesn't mean it is right that it is forced on everyone.

    Re: If the War Spreads: Will We See a Draft? (none / 0) (#52)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Aug 23, 2006 at 12:10:09 PM EST
    I recently discovered that the recruiters are already actively working high school students. The law apparently is: If the high school accepts federal funds of any kind, the recruiters must have access to private and confidential school records unless student's parents "opt out" in writing. John Conyers(D-MI) and Charles Rangel (D-NY)called for a national draft in 2003, unsuccessfully. Their reasoning was that they felt priviledged men and women should serve alongside less fortunate men and women and this would even the playing fields... HOGWASH!

    If the War Spreads: Will We See a Draft? | 52 comments (52 topical)