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Israel Calls Up Reservists

By Jeralyn, Section Foreign Affairs
Posted on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 08:43:09 AM EST
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In preparation for what may be a "large scale incursion" into Lebanon, Israel has called up reservists. Meanwhile, Hezbollah rockets continue to hit Haifa.

Correspondents in Jerusalem say it is understood the Israeli reservists being called up could fill in for troops in the West Bank and Gaza, releasing other soldiers to go up to the northern front. The move has widened speculation that Israel is preparing for a large ground offensive.

Israel is urging all civilians in Southern Lebanon to evacuate.

The call-up came as Israel dropped leaflets on southern Lebanon warning residents to immediately evacuate an area approximately 32km (20 miles) wide.

Israeli Defence Minister Amir Peretz has warned that Israel is prepared to launch a full-scale ground operation if necessary, saying "we have no intention of conquering Lebanon but... we will do it without thinking twice".

In related news, check out Lies, Damn Lies and War Pictures and Putting Things in Perspective.

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    Israel Calls Up Reservists | 67 comments (67 topical)
    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#1)
    by theologicus on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 09:08:16 AM EST
    No Exit From today's New York Times.
    ... When Israeli loudspeakers warned villagers to evacuate the village of Marwaheen last Saturday, the families packed their belongings and headed for safety. More than 23 of them piled into a pickup and drove toward Tyre, with the brothers trailing behind. Another group set off for a nearby United Nations observation post, but were promptly turned away.
    As the pickup raced to Tyre, Ali al-Ghanam said, Israeli boats shelled their convoy, hitting the car and injuring the women and children in the back. But within minutes an Israeli helicopter approached the car, firing a missile that blew the truck to pieces as the passengers struggled to jump out, he said.
    His brother Mohammad, his wife and their six children, were killed instantly along with several of their relatives. The only survivor in the car was the brothers' 4-year-old niece, who survived with severe burns to much of her body.
    "The dead stayed in the sun for hours until anyone could come and collect them," Mr. Ghanam said. "The Israelis can't understand that we are people, too. Should they wonder why so many of us support the resistance?" he said, speaking of Hezbollah.
    The 23 bodies now lie in the truck, waiting to be buried. Mr. Ghanam said it would be impossible for them to be buried in their village while the bombing continued. Holding a funeral is impossible, but even digging a grave could attract fire, he said, assuming the remaining family were able to return to the village.
    The brothers walked to the hospital on Thursday to sign documents allowing the hospital to bury the bodies in a mass grave.
    As Rami Khour, of the Lebanon Daily Star keeps pleading, there is no military solution for an essentially political problem.

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 09:15:45 AM EST
    Can we say "War Crimes" now?

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#3)
    by Andreas on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 09:19:12 AM EST
    The WSWS writes:
    As the onslaught against Lebanon enters its tenth day, Israeli troops are poised for a full-scale invasion that has been prepared by murderous aerial bombardment, and the far-reaching imperialist aims of the war have become all too clear. With the full political, financial and military backing of the United States, the Zionist regime is attempting to transform Lebanon into an Israeli protectorate. This military operation is a continuation and escalation of the imperialist geo-political restructuring of the Middle East and Central Asia that began with the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, and whose goal is the establishment of US domination of the entire region. The immediate aim of this war--the elimination of Hezbollah as a military and political force within Lebanon--is directed against all mass resistance to Israeli and American domination of the country. The Bush administration and its allies in Jerusalem see this as an essential step toward: 1) the removal of the Syrian Baathist regime, and 2) the launching of a full-scale war against Iran.
    The real aims of the US-backed Israeli war against Lebanon Statement of the Editorial Board of the WSWS, 21 July 2006 ***
    Over the past week, the American mass media has obediently fallen into line in defense of Israeli violence and aggression. As hundreds of civilians have died in Lebanon and an estimated half a million been made homeless by Israeli bombs and shells, the US media has consistently painted the conflict as a defensive action by the Zionist regime against provocations by "terrorists." The American public is deliberately being kept ignorant about the history and reality of the situation in the Middle East, as part of the combined effort by Washington and Tel Aviv to impose their brutal will on the people of the region.
    American media unquestioningly defends Israeli violence By David Walsh, 21 July 2006 ***
    Media reports now refer to Israel's attack on Gaza as the "forgotten war," a conflict overshadowed by the carnage in Lebanon. Tel Aviv is happy for this situation to continue. While the world's media focuses almost exclusively on Lebanon, and Israel has itself concentrated its military efforts on the bombing of Beirut, Tripoli and other major cities, the Israel Defence Forces (IDF) has also deepened its three-week-long offensive against the Palestinians. To describe Israel's actions in Gaza as collective punishment does not do enough to convey the scale of the crimes being perpetrated. The IDF has set out to destroy the social, economic and, indeed, political infrastructure of Gaza and is attempting the same on the West Bank.
    Israel deepens offensive in Occupied Territories By Chris Marsden, 21 July 2006

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#4)
    by desertswine on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 09:34:54 AM EST
    Everything's going according to neocon plans. Congratulations Perle, Wolfowitz, et al.

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#5)
    by Aaron on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 10:24:32 AM EST
    Unless something significant happens it looks like Israel is headed for a ground war in Lebanon. Connecting the dots... Norm Chomsky on the Middle East situation. Some facts and some speculation. Neil MacDonald CBC news clip on what's happening in the occupied territories. Anti-Occupation Activist in Jerusalem Speaks on Lebanon and some of the legalities involved.

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#6)
    by kdog on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 10:26:16 AM EST
    How can peace be possible when the neocons entrenched in our govt. are actively cheerleading for WWIII to begin?

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#7)
    by Dadler on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 10:36:57 AM EST
    Been reading a lot of Chris Albritton's stuff lately, he's doing a daily journal from Lebanon for TIME Magazine. Today's entry was quite telling.

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#8)
    by Slado on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 10:53:09 AM EST
    Go Isreal.

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#9)
    by theologicus on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 10:55:34 AM EST
    Disptch from Beruit Why the current attacks are worse than the siege of 1982. By Michael Young Slate, 20 July
    ... All of Lebanon is a target; all access roads, airports, and ports have been blocked or are in constant danger of being attacked, and a much larger swath of civilians are in danger.
    According to eyewitnesses in southern Lebanon, including journalist friends of mine, the destruction of villages is the worst they've ever seen--both intense and systematic--and it's not Hezbollah that is usually on the receiving end of the ordnance, it is civilians.
    Much the same is taking place away from the cameras in the northern Beqaa Valley, another majority-Shiite area.
    As for the Hezbollah stronghold in the Haret Hreik quarter of Beirut's southern suburbs, it has been reduced to dust. While this may have made it a legitimate objective, the suburbs have probably the highest concentration of inhabitants in Beirut, and virtually everybody has fled. ...
    In A Letter on Palestine, Berger, Chomsky, Pinter and Saramego assert that the political aim "is nothing less than the liquidation of the Palestinian nation."

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#10)
    by Che's Lounge on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 11:00:05 AM EST
    They need breathing room.

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#11)
    by Slado on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 11:00:12 AM EST
    "A Letter on Palestine" Meanwhile the stated aim of Hezzbollah and Hamas is the liquidation of Isreal. Remember folks who the bad guys are that you feel so morally responsible to.

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#12)
    by desertswine on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 11:05:32 AM EST
    They need breathing room.
    Maybe it's a little lebensraum that they're needing.

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#14)
    by Punchy on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 11:09:45 AM EST
    Go Isreal.
    Learn to spell. Shorter Slado: I see dead (brown) people.

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#15)
    by roger on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 11:16:28 AM EST
    Dadler, Good link. One thing is for sure, no matter who wins, the Lebanese people lose.

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#16)
    by Slado on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 11:30:54 AM EST
    Roger. You are correct that the Lebanese people lose in the short term but so did the Germans and Japanese during WWII. To bad they to cast their lot with bad regimes like the Lebanese. Not all the Lebanese are suffering. Mostly it is the ones that have allowed Hezzbollah to live amongst them. Save the moral indignation for Hezzbollah who shoots rockets with no military intent and exclusively at civilians, even Arags in northern Israel (thanks punchy). Not Israel (again thanks punchy) who is right to try and remove Hezzbollah from the equation.

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 11:31:46 AM EST
    All supporters of Israel, please be aware: her arguments are the same ones made by Saddam Hussein when he invaded Iran. Her plans to create a buffer zone along her border are the exact plans Saddam Hussein laid out. It didn't matter to you whether or not Iran was a serious threat to Iraq's sovereignty. (It was.) It didn't matter to you whether or not Iran supported terrorist activity within Iraq's borders. (It did.) So don't expect us to stand by Israel while she engages in ethnic cleansing.

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#18)
    by theologicus on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 11:52:01 AM EST
    From Tony Karon today, senior editor at TIME, on why there is no military solution to an essentially political problem. Folly in Beruit
    ... The only way to secure Israel's borders and ensure peace for its citizens is to solve all of the outstanding issues that define its conflict with the Arab world.
    Applying UN resolutions (such as 1559, requiring Hizballah's disarmament) and guaranteeing Israel's security along the internationally recognized border with Lebanon won't bring Israel peace unless all relevant UN resolutions are implemented, and all of Israel's internationally recognized borders are secured.
    And just as in Lebanon, the internationally recognized borders are those of June 4, 1967.
    That is the basis of a settlement not only with the Palestinians, but also the wider Arab world as defined by UN resolution 242 and also by the Arab League offer to end all conflict with Israel based on a return to the 1967 borders. ...
    And frankly, it will also now require a grand bargain with Iran. Anything less will simply leave the field open for more extreme forces to take the initiative. ...
    There is no such consensus for peace now, because there is no peace on offer. ...
    [And until there is,] there will be neither peace nor stability.
    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#19)
    by Dadler on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 11:52:55 AM EST
    Slado, A black and white world does not exist, no matter how much you want it to. Israel has legitimate security concerns, which have now ceased to be the issue. As have the two soldiers kidnapped, apprehended, whatever. This form of collective punishment is neither moral, necessary, nor productive. Unless the only goals are short-term. I have no delusions about Muslim terrorists. But I also have none about Israel. I know which is a more "free" country by our standards, I also know the one which is making a mockery of the word freedom and security. This action by Israel is as stupid as ours in Iraq. And will result in a similar quagmire. Narius, I hate to make Hitler comparisons, but your comment on war crimes being only for losers is SO off the charts lacking in humanity and morality as to be clinically sociopathic. Hyper-real to a disturbing extent. Show a modicum of actual concern and respect for the bloodshed and reality of war, not the b.s. chest-thumping going on thousands of miles away.

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#20)
    by Dadler on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 12:10:55 PM EST
    Add Slado, You're accusing the Lebanese people en masse on the basis of logic you'd never ask be applied to yourself. Did you support bombing all those Patriot Militia types when their bro, McVeigh, let loose? Or when judges have been shot or kidnapped? Much less support bombings of neighborhoods that tolerated these nutjobs' presence? But Americans were killed by these people, Slado, innocent Americans, in what the perpetrators called a revolt against the U.S. government. Lebanon was in the middle of a political and social evolution, coming back from their first Civil War. Now that's set back, destroyed, who knows what, because Israel decided to pull an Iraq and find an excuse to invade. There is no positive spin on this. There is no good to come out of this, unless you actually believe that something like Hizbullah's military wing can just be destroyed without it simply rising again -- for the simple reason this idiotic invasion will stoke more of the anger and hatred that sends people to extreme action in the first place. And, as logic dictates, with hundreds of millions of more "enemies" in the middle east than Israelis, the chances of finding plenty of new recruits for the "enemy" are pretty damn good. See the insurgency in Iraq bogging down our soldiers for all the vivid details you need.

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#21)
    by jondee on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 12:20:01 PM EST
    Tough luck, hard cheese. How about the children Slado? Did they "cast their lot" too? I dont want to hear another word from you about abortion and your "pro-life" b.s; sorry, but you're obviously a hypocrite parroting a right wing script. Go Planned Parenthood!

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#22)
    by jondee on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 12:24:31 PM EST
    What did Nietzche say about fighting monsters for too long?

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#23)
    by theologicus on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 12:24:53 PM EST
    This message from Israel was just forwarded to me via e-mail. From: Emanuel Marx End this War Now 21 July 2006
    Armies are trained to destroy enemies and conquer their territory. An army that runs out of control will find and fight more and more external and internal enemies, always in pursuit of an elusive victory.
    That has happened to the Israeli Army on several occasions. Whenever it was allowed free rein, its campaigns ended in humanitarian disasters.
    Just now we are witnessing another instance: while the campaign against the Hizballah terrorist organization did not save the Israeli civilian population from rocket attacks, it rapidly turned into an assault on the Lebanese civilian population. Within days it deteriorated into a humanitarian catastrophe.
    Half a million innocent Lebanese civilians lost their homes and became refugees.
    The Israeli Government must reassume control of the Army and stop the fighting immediately.
    Negotiations will surely achieve better outcomes.
    Emanuel Marx is a professor of Social Anthropology at Tel Aviv University. He is a jubilee year (1998) Israel Prize laureate.

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#25)
    by soccerdad on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 12:32:50 PM EST
    1. June 20, 2006, when Israeli aircraft fired at least one missile at a car in an attempted extrajudicial assassination attempt on a road between Jabalya and Gaza City. The missile missed the car. Instead it killed three Palestinian children and wounded 15. 2. June 13, 2006. Israeli aircraft fired missiles at a van in another attempted extrajudicial assassination. The successive barrages killed nine innocent Palestinians. 3. June 9, 2006, when Israel shelled a beach in Beit Lahiya killing 8 civilians and injuring 32. link Arn't these provocative acts?

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#26)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 12:45:03 PM EST
    theologicus quotes Time:
    The only way to secure Israel's borders and ensure peace for its citizens is to solve all of the outstanding issues that define its conflict with the Arab world.
    Well, one of this issues was, and is, a deep hatred of Jews.
    "Our fundamental condition for cooperating with Germany was a free hand to eradicate every last Jew from Palestine and the Arab world. I asked Hitler for an explicit undertaking to allow us to solve the Jewish problem in a manner befitting our national and racial aspirations and according to the scientific methods innovated by Germany in the handling of its Jews. The answer I got was: 'The Jews are yours.'" - Former Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin al-Husseini in his post-WWII memoirs. [1]
    That goal has not changed. Let's see what wikipedia says:
    the Mufti of Jerusalem, was a Palestinian Pan-Arab nationalist and a Sunni Muslim religious leader. More commonly known for his anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism, al-Husayni fought against the establishment of a Jewish state in the territory of the British Mandate of Palestine. To this end, Husayni collaborated with Nazi Germany during World War II and helped recruit Muslims for the Waffen-SS.
    So I ask, are we ready to recognize that the hatred of the Jews, and transferred to the US by OBL, Hezbollah and Hamas is just the sons of Hitler?

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#27)
    by Gabriel Malor on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 12:47:48 PM EST
    soccerdad, the June 9 killings have been repeatedly and conclusively attributed to Hamas, not Israel. (Though that doesn't stop anyone from blaming Israel for it instead.) Both the doctor who treated the victims and the Israeli investigation showed that the shrapnel was not from Israeli artillery. More info here.

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#28)
    by Gabriel Malor on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 12:52:06 PM EST
    Oh, and you falsely identify the Palestinians as somehow part of Hizbullah. Even if it were true that the acts of the Israeli military (which you so nicely isolate from the aggression of the Palestinians) were provocation, only the Palestinians would have a right to retaliate. Hizbullah was created to fight the Israeli occupation in Lebanon (and, of course, to destroy Lebanon). How ironic that its actions will now result in a re-occupation of their country. What morons.

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#29)
    by Gabriel Malor on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 12:54:34 PM EST
    * excuse me, I meant "of course, to destroy Israel." Forgive my error. I'm rather passionate about this subject.

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#30)
    by lilybart on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 12:56:37 PM EST
    Please stop worrying! Bush and Condi have a peace plan! She is going to build an "umbrella" of arab nations against Hizbullah and they call this a "leadership moment" for Dear Leader!! These mofos have no decency or shame. FROM TIME: Although some conservatives have been fretting that Lebanese rocket fire and Israeli warplanes are making President Bush look helpless, administration officials revealed to TIME today that they have plans to harness the chaos as a "leadership moment" for Bush that could wind up helping his flagging goal of transforming the Middle East.

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#31)
    by soccerdad on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 12:57:51 PM EST
    Oh, and you falsely identify the Palestinians as somehow part of Hizbullah.
    I did when?

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#32)
    by soccerdad on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 12:59:29 PM EST
    BTW any independent analysis of the shrapnel or just Israeli, not that they would lie!

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#33)
    by desertswine on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 01:02:45 PM EST
    "You're doing some hard work. It's hard work to defeat terrorists," the president said.
    Jeez, and I was worried.

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#34)
    by Peaches on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 01:13:21 PM EST
    So I ask, are we ready to recognize that the hatred of the Jews, and transferred to the US by OBL, Hezbollah and Hamas is just the sons of Hitler?
    Ha!!! look who brought up Hitler first. You lose. (Those were your rules, remember?) Can I call Bush, Hitler now?

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#35)
    by theologicus on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 01:15:31 PM EST
    For the record, I did not quote TIME. I quoted a senior editor at TIME who was writing on his personal blog. But of course for all right-thinking people, the superior authority of Wikipedia will trump every report of the wanton devastation in Lebanon, and every doubt about a military solution.

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#36)
    by squeaky on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 01:50:13 PM EST
    Can I call Bush, Hitler now?
    Good one Peaches, or is it Good win? LMAO

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#37)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 01:57:41 PM EST
    pneumatikon... same ones made by Saddam Hussein when he invaded Iran. Her plans to create a buffer zone along her border are the exact plans Saddam Hussein laid out. Uh..there's one HUGE difference. Iran didn't shoot missles indescriminately into Iraqi cities...or go across the border and kidnap soldiers. So don't expect us to stand by Israel while she engages in ethnic cleansing. Ok..you stand by Hezbollah, who actually admits to wanting to "cleans" Israel from the earth...ok? Dadler... And, as logic dictates, with hundreds of millions of more "enemies" in the middle east than Israelis, the chances of finding plenty of new recruits for the "enemy" are pretty damn good. This (logic?) argument (as it were) has been made many times. As long as hate is being preached to the young, Israel could go away and it wouldn't matter. That hate would just be focused on somebody else (the USA?) I'll reprint something from another blog that people need to realize and come to grips with... Over the last 40 years or so, just about every major country in the world has suffered some sort of "Islamic" terrorist attack .... It has become very apparent to most people in the world that there is currently an assault on civilization by the radical arm of Islam. Their aim is to control the world and kill anyone who is not with them. They can't (won't) be reckoned with or appeased in any way. The time has come for the rest of the civilized world to respond to this threat and rid the earth of this vermin once and for all... A basic understanding of these facts is required before any sort of conversations about this subject have any meaning.... Soccerdad... For every one thing you cite Israel has done... I can cite 3 from Hezbollah... Wanna start with the Marine barracks in Lebanon in 1983????

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#38)
    by jimcee on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 02:34:47 PM EST
    Theologicus, '...should they wonder why so many many of us support the resistance?' So this fellow obviously is in favor of Hezballah and has been for a while. He reaps what he sows so to speak. As far as cilivians dying yes this has happened but then again since when do terrorists wear uniforms and not hide amongst civilians? How can you tell if an adult KIA is Hezballah or not? Andreas, WSWS agitprop, sheesh who writes that crap ten year old North Korean apparatchiks? Desertswine, Hezballah are Neo-Cons? Aaron, Ah yes Chomsky. Wasn't he one of those who supported the murderous Pol Pot and his minions? He's just another in a long line of genocide deniers from both sides of the aisle with zero credibility. Punchy, '...dead (brown) people...'? Such as those two Arab children in Nazareth killed by Hezballah's rockets? Dadler, Godwin's Law, you lose. The situation there is tragic but unavoidable. Israel left Lebanon in 2000 unilaterally only to be rewarded by Hezballah building underground fortifications in civilian areas in order to cause violence in Israel and hide thier Iranian supplied rockets and arms with which to attack Israel. Israel is doing what it feels it needs to do to defend itself. If Hezballah didn't hide amongst women, the elderly and children I am sure there would be far fewer civilians killed. What is very suprising to me is how many on the Left have become the imbodiment of Patrick Buchanan. Apt company for you. You can have him. You make a lovely couple.

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#39)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 02:36:43 PM EST
    Peaches - Great fun, but are you really going to ignore the connection? I thought better of you than that. As for Bush, if you haven't already the rest of your crew are gonna come take your Leftie License. Theo - The man in question is well known. Examine the roots of the problem, and you will see that it goes back generations. And it's not going to go away until the terrorists are eliminated. et al - At one time the Left could make claim that it was the extreme Right that had some common ground with the Nazis. As I watch the current crop of Lefties attack Israel and defend the terrorists it is plain that we have came full circle.

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#40)
    by Peaches on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 02:54:44 PM EST
    Jimcee and Jim, I will just come out and admit that Israel really is in a can't win situation. They were attacked by Hezbellah and if they waited for the world community to act, it would have been too slow and Russia and China would have played games on the security council. What bothers me are the stories of Israel dropping leaflets to the civilains asking them to leave Southern Lebanon and then stories of helicopter gunships and fighter jets shooting at convoys of civilains leaving the area. This is tragic and criminal. Things are really f$%#ed-up over there in the ME. It looks like things are getting worse. I fear a WWIII and I think that we all lose if we go to war against muslem nations. Somewhere, we have to reach out to moderate muslems and demonstrate our resolve to integrate them into the world community and not exploit their population for their resources. I don't know how that can be done. Hey, perhaps some leftists do hate Israel. Maybe some even hate the US. But, it is a minority, if not insignificant percentage. I know of no leftists who side with terrorists. At worst, you can only claim we are misguided and reinforce them in our ignorance. So, please stop with the anti-semitism and US hating rhetoric. We disagree with Israeli policy is all. We disagree with both the military-industrial policy in both the US and ISrael. Perhaps we vehemently disagree. But that's allowed in America, isn't it?

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#41)
    by desertswine on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 03:01:19 PM EST
    WASHINGTON July 21 (Reuters) - An Israeli invasion of Lebanon is likely on Friday night, intelligence sources told NBC News, its affiliated network CNBC reported on Friday. CNBC said an unidentified Western nation had also told NBC that Israeli troops were expected to enter Lebanon on Friday night.
    Tonite, Lebanon. Tomorrow Syria?

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#42)
    by glanton on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 03:04:49 PM EST
    At one time the Left could make claim that it was the extreme Right that had some common ground with the Nazis. As I watch the current crop of Lefties attack Israel and defend the terrorists it is plain that we have came full circle.
    The depths to which your arguments sink, Jim, just keep getting lower and lower. That you wrote the above in earnest, that you believe you have made a cogent point, is mind boggling. Well as futile as engaging you has proven to be, such spewing deserves to be smacked down. 1)Nobody on this thread, none of the regulars on any thread "defend terrorists." What idiocy. 2)The ole 'criticize Israeli actions makes you an Antisemite' argument has gone stale even with significant numbers of your fellow righties. 3)What has always resonated, and continues to resonate, between the American Right and Nazi ideology/practice has nothing to do with Jewish peoples. It is a bit more abstract and therefore likely out of your capacity for understanding. But ignorance in this regard is immaterial. What is more important is that, as one of those so on board with the "my country right or wrong" mentality, so stuffed with Taps and Apple Pie propaganda and so teary-eyed and wistful at very suggestion of war, you represent the resonances eloquently. Keep it up so that subtler minds might see. And above all, stay alert, and stay with Fox.

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#43)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 03:45:36 PM EST
    Peaches writes:
    and then stories of helicopter gunships and fighter jets shooting at convoys of civilains leaving the area. This is tragic and criminal.
    First, these are "stories." If true they are "tragic" but not criminal, given the fact that the world has left Hezbollah operate behind human shields. This is the result. You write:
    Somewhere, we have to reach out to moderate muslems
    Works for me, but how about the moderate muslems raching out? I don't see any real attempt on their part. And the reason is plain. We have not demonstrated that we will fight/kill the radicals in their midst, and the "moderates" are fearful if identified they will be killed. Like it or not, we are in a situation in which we must kill terrorists. The fact that our political division is seen as a weakness by a culture that has long favored strong men should be plain. Yet we seem to not be able to understand that, and what that is costing the innocents of the world. As for the far left and israel, look. Just read the blogs. All I see is calls for cease fire, Israel shouldn't be defending, etc. And when I post two comments/links showing the history, you laugh and others ignore. Kinda speaks for itself, eh? Glanton writes:
    It is a bit more abstract and therefore likely out of your capacity for understanding.
    Uh huh. The old "Only I am intelligent enough to understand my argument so I won't bother to give it." defense. And you never understood why I said you are an elitist. Pardon me while I fall down laughing. As Brother Dave said, "If the world is wrong, kick thine self..." Glanton.

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#44)
    by Sailor on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 03:47:17 PM EST
    bombing an airport as part of an attempt to get 2 soldiers back is either lunacy or just an excuse. bombing civilians indiscriminately is a war crime. bush sitting back and letting, encouraging it happening is sick.

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#45)
    by jimcee on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 04:05:03 PM EST
    Peaches, I haven't called anyone here an anti-semite because they don't support Israel but I did make an (IMHO) apt comparison between the obvious anti-Israel rhetoric that has appeared in these comments and Patrick Buchanan's same rhetoric. Israel has a right to defend itself whether anyone else agrees or not. They are doing what the UN either couldn't or wouldn't do and that is enforce UN resolution 1559 for the Lebanese gov't to disarm Hezbollah which it has had the last six years to accomplish. If they couldn't do it then they should have asked the world for help but instead they embraced them in thier Parliment. To quote a Lefty hero , ...When The Chickens Come Home to Roost...'. As far as the Left/Right nexus appears here all I can think of is the end of Orwell's Animal Farm when the farm animals peered into the farmhouse window they '...couldn't tell the pigs from the man and the man from the pigs.'.

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#46)
    by John Mann on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 04:05:28 PM EST
    Narius said:
    It is fairly obvious that war is coming. However, this one is really not our war and I fail to see why we have an incentive to stop it.
    Are you really so naive? The U.S. is obviously behind the Israeli attack on Lebanon, hiring the Israelis to do the dirty work of the U.S. while suffering relatively little damage to Israel. Why do you think other Arab nations are not getting involved? It's because they know perfectly well whose war it really is - the United States's - and countries like Saudi Arabia and Egypt are bought and paid for. The U.S. couldn't care less how many Lebanese civilians are killed or made homeless, nor could it care less about the inevitable destruction of the entire country - except East Beirut, which is mainly Christian. As long as the Hizbollah guys are killed, well, hey, civilian deaths are collateral damage. What's happening in Lebanon is a lot like what happened in Europe during the Nazi occupation: kill a German soldier, ten of your civilians will be killed. The only difference in the current case is that the reprisal ratio is far greater.

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#47)
    by glanton on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 04:07:04 PM EST
    Uh huh. The old "Only I am intelligent enough to understand my argument so I won't bother to give it." defense. And you never understood why I said you are an elitist.
    Actually, the expnalation arrived in the following paragraph as I outlined the characteristics shared by the two, using you as the illuminating connection. Told ya is was too subtle for ya. :-) And again, since for you people elitists are those who don't, for example, hate gays or think Hollywood's fetish for sex is a bigger problem than the killing of civillians aroudn the world, I'll take that as a complement.
    As Brother Dave said, "If the world is wrong, kick thine self..." Glanton.
    You're getting redundant. You've tried that one before. You keep repeating yourself. Etc. Bottom line is, if the world is wrong it is wrong. But in this case we're not talking the world versus glanton, only on pay-per-view. We're talking about the fact of you being wrong, a truly tired theme, but a true one nonetheless. Stay alert and stay with Fox.

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#48)
    by jondee on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 04:25:44 PM EST
    I dont know whether to laugh or cry when I see the defenders of this action complaining about Israel's adversaries not complying with U.N resoloutions.

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#49)
    by jondee on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 04:32:10 PM EST
    Btw Jimcee, still waiting for you to man up (in lieu of making things up), and show me where I ever called you a fascist.

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#50)
    by John Mann on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 05:06:48 PM EST
    As for the far left and israel, look. Just read the blogs. All I see is calls for cease fire, Israel shouldn't be defending, etc. And when I post two comments/links showing the history, you laugh and others ignore.
    I have news for you, Jim. Israel isn't defending. It is using the excuse of the kidnaping of two soldiers to pay the U.S. piper and destroy Lebanon with a response out of all proportion to the offense. When this topic first surfaced several days ago, I pointed this out on another thread. I was not surprised to be attacked by people who think the way you do, but I was shocked to be attacked by certain "progressives". Well, things have changed now, and those attacks have conveniently disappeared from the archived thread. As for your links, do you really think pulling two paragraphs out of the air gives your view any credibility? It might with BB and Slado, but more mature minds understand that it's easy to find comments to support your point of view. I do it all the time. The difference is that you act as if they were holy writ, and post them ad nauseum.

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#51)
    by Gabriel Malor on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 06:36:52 PM EST
    soccerdad, you equated Hizbollah with the Palestinians when you claimed that attacks against the Palestinians justified Hizbollah's aggression. The two are distinct groups, one composed of, y'know, actual Palestinians, the other composed of Lebanese terrorists. And while both groups have fought with Israel, they both do so for different reasons. (Well, except for that whole "drive the Israelis into the sea thing".) The only reason I took the time to write anything at all is because it is insulting for someone to list attacks on Palestinians as provocation against the Lebanese. I guess some just think that they're all just brown people rather than distinct groups.

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#52)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 07:02:33 PM EST
    Posted by spencer July 21, 2006 10:15 AM Can we say "War Crimes" now?
    I don't think so Spencer, show me a country who fought a war and won that adhered by any law other than win. After all, it's the winners that decide who committed what crimes if any. As many vets from WWII have said if we had lost how many Americans would have been tried of war crimes? (FDR, Patton, MacArthur, Eisenhower, etc..) If you think you can have a neat little war where everyone plays by the same rules then your living in your own parallel universe.

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#53)
    by jondee on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 07:32:53 PM EST
    Gabriel - Meanwhile Israel, with it's 200+ warheads, is doing all it can just to keep from being "driven into the sea" by relegating the Palestinians to untouchable status (we already know they're un-chosen) and the Lebanese to a nation of refugees. And of course, all the new enemies created from this will all be motivated purely by race hate.

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#54)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 07:44:00 PM EST
    Regarding Tony Karon's remarks, on June 4, 1967, none of Israel's neighbors recognized the 1949 armistice lines as Israel's borders because none of them recognized Israel. Iran, Syria, Hamas, and Hizbullah still don't. And UN Resolution 242 doesn't require Israel to withdraw to the 1949 armistice lines, since it doesn't mention them. An earlier Soviet resolution explicitly calling for such a withdrawal was rejected by the Security Council. Finally, can any rational person ask the Israelis to return the Western Wall to Muslim control? The present war is a tragedy caused by Hizbullah, a jihadist group without conscience when it comes to Lebanonese interests. Lebanon can have a future, or it can have an armed Hizbullah, but it can't have both. As for the civilian death toll: Hamas and Hizbullah engage in a form of war that obliterates the distinction between combatant and noncombatant. And it's worth noting that when Israel tries to wage war with the most precision, by targeting individual Hamas leaders, much of the world screams about "extrajudicial killing."

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#55)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 07:52:34 PM EST
    John Mann - You are so anti-Israel.. Have you forgoten the the research I did on the number of attack comments you have made?

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#56)
    by squeaky on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 07:59:27 PM EST
    Larry Johnson is worrh a read as is his friend Pat Lang, via Josh Marshall

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#57)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 08:03:12 PM EST
    As far as Israel's warning to the Lebanese to evacuate from their homes within a 20-mile area: If you were of Palestinean descent, might you be worried that once you leave, you might not be permitted to come back?

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#58)
    by jimcee on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 08:20:30 PM EST
    Fight For Justice, If I treasured my life I would leave otherwise I had been warned. Jondee, OT, Quite frankly your attentions are charming if not at all interesting. Your comments are nothing more than the mutterings from the back row of the classroom, the row with the slower students. When you have an argument that is formed, reasoned, doesn't involve childish word play I'll be more than happy to engage you otherwise your just wasting pixels. See ya'

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#59)
    by soccerdad on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 08:52:58 PM EST
    Gabriel Malor
    soccerdad, you equated Hizbollah with the Palestinians when you claimed that attacks against the Palestinians justified Hizbollah's aggression.
    all i said was that they were provocative youre the idiot that drew the conclusion As for playing thr race card, pretty disingenuous for someone who is endorsing genocide.

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#60)
    by John Mann on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 09:14:22 PM EST
    John Mann - You are so anti-Israel.. Have you forgoten the the research I did on the number of attack comments you have made?
    Jim - you are so pro-Israel. So what? No, I haven't forgotten, and my views haven't changed in the slightest. So what?

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#61)
    by Al on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 10:40:01 PM EST
    So Israel occupies a "buffer zone" of 32 km. What do they do afterwards? If they stay there forever, and Hezbollah withdraws 32 km, will they need another buffer zone soon? If they leave the buffer zone, and Hezbollah moves in, aren't they back where they started from? Or maybe they think Hezbollah is "in its last throes"? Or maybe they think this is going to be settled by the best four of seven battles, with overtime and sudden death in case of a tie. (Because when someone says "Go Israel", they obviously think this is some kind of game. Slado should sit in a chair at the Lebanese border with a beer and a big foam finger, and cheer every time a missile explodes).

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#62)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 11:43:55 PM EST
    Well, except for that whole "drive the Israelis into the sea thing".)
    The Shi'ite militia was formed to drive Israel out of Lebanon (and it worked). Israel is in for another quagmire like their last Lebanon invasion. Go Israel indeed, and bleed slowly into the mire. Meanwhile, it's quite interesting to watch American citizens having to run like scared rabbits out of Lebanon from the monster their American government created, that being the heavily armed Rogue State of Israel. It's even funnier to watch the creepy wingnuts cheerleading the governemnt of Israel's complete ownership of the U.S. government. They prove once again that their racism is stronger than their love of country.

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#63)
    by jondee on Sat Jul 22, 2006 at 05:36:48 AM EST
    jimcee - No sense of honor, and, needless to say, no guts. Frankly I dont care how much bandwidth you waste pissing and moaning because the content at Talkleft isnt right wing enough for you, just dont make things up about people.

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#64)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 22, 2006 at 06:40:54 AM EST
    John Mann - The point is this. There is nothing Israel can do that will satisfy you. If I am incorrect, tell me what it is.

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#65)
    by John Mann on Sat Jul 22, 2006 at 10:09:56 AM EST
    John Mann - The point is this. There is nothing Israel can do that will satisfy you. If I am incorrect, tell me what it is.
    Not surprisingly, you are incorrect. I realize the clock can't be turned back; Israel isn't going to go away. I don't like the way the country was established, and I don't like the way it treats its non-Jewish citizens - never mind the fact that it has totally overreacted in the current situation, even though it's clear that Israel is simply doing Mr. Bush's dirty work. What I would like to see is that every Israeli citizen, Jew, Muslim, Christian and secular be treated in the same way, entitled to all the benefits of Israeli "democracy". Is that clear enough, Jim?

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#66)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 22, 2006 at 12:04:33 PM EST
    Clearly the Israeli's want the Litani river, and have wanted if for a long time. Here is a plausible theory that the Hariri killing was a step to further that goal. That was part I and now we are seeing part II. It's Chinatown Israeli style.

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#67)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 22, 2006 at 07:34:13 PM EST
    John Mann - Sounds wonderful, and it is my understanding that is what happens. Can you show otherwise. And then there is that small matter of their neighbors attacking everything they think they can win. Are you also against that? Can you tell us how that can be stopped? You know suicide bombers, kidnapppers and missiles have a way of posioning the discussion.

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#68)
    by Sailor on Sat Jul 22, 2006 at 08:48:53 PM EST
    You know suicide bombers, kidnapppers and missiles have a way of posioning the discussion.
    Ya know, except for the suicide bomber part he could have been describing israel. And who needs suicide bombers when you have US made/donated gunships and f16's.

    Re: Israel Calls Up Reservists (none / 0) (#69)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jul 23, 2006 at 07:51:52 AM EST
    "Democracy, or the Open Society, has no weapons capable of destroying Islam and its call for the destruction of the West. Israel's war against the Hizbollah is just an example of this sure defeat. What will change in Lebanon that didn't change when Israel "defeated" the PLO in 1982 and occupied Lebanon so disastrously for 20 years?" Read the rest of this article here: http://www.saneworks.us/On-Israel%92s-War-Why-Democracies-are-Incapable-of-Winning-the-War-Against-Islam-Part-I-article-137-1.htm

    Israel Calls Up Reservists | 67 comments (67 topical)