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Israel Captures Hezbollah Fighters, U.N. to Meet Thursday

The war in Lebanon is escalating. Israel has captured 7 Hezbollah soldiers in Baalbek, Lebanon, a Hezbollah stronghold, and taken them to Israel.

The BBC's Bethany Bell in Jerusalem says many in Israel expect the fighting to intensify over the next few days. Israel launched the current offensive after Hezbollah militants seized two of its soldiers in a cross-border raid.

Another BBC analyst says despite what Condoleezza Rice said today about a cease-fire by the end of the week, it's not likely.

Did Ms Rice misread the Israeli mood, which seems to be more committed than perhaps some optimistic outsiders have realised? ....Much depends on what the US does, but Condoleezza Rice herself is in a difficult position. She has in effect promised but delivery is uncertain. Will she be sidelined by a President Bush unwavering in his support for Israel?

I think that's a polite way of saying Condi Rice is in over her head and not effective as Secretary of State because her negotiating skills are not up to snuff. At least, that's been my view for quite a while. I don't think it's a matter of Bush's support for Israel. There's a U.N. Security Council Resolution from 2004 in effect that calls for the disarming of militias and foreign forces in Lebanon and for Lebanon to exercise control over its own territory. It's not being enforced and Lebanon has not used its military power to throw Hezbollah out. From Wikipedia:

United Nations Security Council Resolution 1559 was a resolution adopted by the United Nations Security Council on September 2, 2004. It called upon Lebanon to establish its sovereignty over all of its land and It called upon Syria to end their military presence in Lebanon by withdrawing its forces and to cease intervening in internal Lebanese politics. The resolution also called on all Lebanese militias to disband.

The U.N. is now set to meet Thursday. As to an international peace-keeping force, there are major disagreements:

The council will also have to overcome a central disagreement between Israel and Lebanon. Israel wants a strong, armed force with a mandate to confront militants, and Israeli Cabinet Minister Haim Ramon reiterated Tuesday that Israel seeks NATO involvement. Lebanon, however, wants an expansion of the current U.N. peacekeeping force, deployed in south Lebanon since 1978 which Israel dismisses as ineffective.

Another element to the discussion is finding someone to lead the international force. Regardless of its mandate _ whether under the auspices of the U.N. or not _ it will need one nation at its center leading the way.

Israeli's are backing their country's actions:

Polls in Israel show wall-to-wall support for Israel's fight against Hezbollah, even with Israeli civilians enduring a barrage of rocket fire and the army poised for a sweeping ground offensive that is sure to lead to more casualties.

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    Re: Israel Captures Hezbollah Fighters, U.N. to Me (none / 0) (#1)
    by theologicus on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 06:26:55 AM EST
    Josh Marshall writes that according to reports in the Israeli press, the US may be "egging Israel on" to escalate the war into Syria. Guerilla war expert John Robb warns that US troops in an "internaitonal peacekeeping force" could inevitably become the trip wire to a wider war. William S. Lind, a respected military analyst, compares the situation to the Summer of 1914. Retired CIA analyst Larry Johnson includes this note:
    An editorial in the Syrian government daily Al-Ba'th, titled "International Force or New Occupation?' read: 'Whoever thinks that the presence of international forces on Lebanese soil is the solution is wrong - since these forces, in the eyes of the resistance fighters and in the nationalist and pan-Arab view, would be occupation forces, like the forces that have occupied Iraq and other places in the world." ... [Pat Lang writes] [I]f these translations are correct, then the chance that existed for the US and Israel to make a deal with Syria is now gone."
    These writers are not, as far as I can see, alarmists. The situation may be slipping out of control, if it hasn't already done so. As I have suggested previously, we are facing the most perilous situation since the Cuban missile crisis.

    Re: Israel Captures Hezbollah Fighters, U.N. to Me (none / 0) (#2)
    by Sailor on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 06:31:38 AM EST
    Israel has captured 7 Hezbollah soldiers
    How come israel 'captures' but hezbollah 'kidnaps?'

    Re: Israel Captures Hezbollah Fighters, U.N. to Me (none / 0) (#3)
    by Che's Lounge on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 06:37:33 AM EST
    Sailor, You beat me to it. Hypocrites.

    Rice is not the only Secretary of State sand bagged by the Bushbag Administration! I don't believe the Isrealis wanted to widen this war. I am positive they were pushed into it by Bushbag urged on by Rove and the NeoConvicts surrounding him.

    It's too bad the Republicans have control. Censorship of the President would have saved the U.S alot of negative public sentiment. The situation in the Middle East only intensifies and another Nuclear Arms race sets us back 20 years. India,Pakistan,N.Korea,Iran,Venezuela,.who's next.

    Re: Israel Captures Hezbollah Fighters, U.N. to Me (none / 0) (#6)
    by roger on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 08:03:14 AM EST
    Just possibly, capture happens during a battle?

    Its captured when you have around 2.5 billion dollars worth of good American military might. Its kidnapped when youre toting around a 30yr old Ak.

    Its captured when you have 2.5 billion dollars worth of American military equipment. Its kidnapped when youre toting around a 30yr old Ak.

    Re: Israel Captures Hezbollah Fighters, U.N. to Me (none / 0) (#9)
    by theologicus on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 08:26:16 AM EST
    I agree that the term "kidnapping" is tendentious. But very little hangs on these semantics. By this time, Lebanon's being wantonly reduced to rubble has nothing to do with how it started.

    Re: Israel Captures Hezbollah Fighters, U.N. to Me (none / 0) (#10)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 08:32:50 AM EST
    Sailor - You see when open fighting is going on, people get captured. When open fighting is not going on an people are snuck up on, they are kidnapped. Plainer. When police are pursuing a suspect they capture him. When thugs snatch someone into a car and speed off, they have kidnapped. See the point? No? Oh well, I knew you wouldn't. Ed - Interesting. Can you provide us some details that supports this view?? You know, statements by the Israeli government, etc. Theo - Did you suggest it, or say it? Che - Hypocrites? No. A hypocrite is someone who won't condemn Cuba's civil rights violations while harping continualy about the US.

    Re: Israel Captures Hezbollah Fighters, U.N. to Me (none / 0) (#11)
    by Sailor on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 08:40:39 AM EST
    No. A hypocrite is someone who won't condemn Cuba's civil rights violations while harping continualy about the US.
    try to stay on topic for a change ppj. And I'm glad to know that ppj thinks the insurgents 'captured' the American soldiers they ended up beheading.

    Re: Israel Captures Hezbollah Fighters, U.N. to Me (none / 0) (#12)
    by Patrick on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 09:05:40 AM EST
    And I'm glad to know that ppj thinks the insurgents 'captured' the American soldiers they ended up beheading.
    Sailor, How would you term it? It seems arguably a valid use of the word.

    Re: Israel Captures Hezbollah Fighters, U.N. to Me (none / 0) (#13)
    by jondee on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 09:56:24 AM EST
    Did Israel "capture" Mordecai Vanunu also?

    Re: Israel Captures Hezbollah Fighters, U.N. to Me (none / 0) (#14)
    by chew2 on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 10:14:11 AM EST
    TL, Funny how you highlight a small scale attack on a hospital as some great victory or escalation. Funny how you missed the tales of Israeli mass killing (massacre) of civilians at Qana and elsewhere, or the bigger story that the IDF claims they will enlarge the ground war. Even in this small scale raid on a hospital, the Israelis manage to kill dozens of civilians in the surrounding areas. Isn't this a war crime?
    Witnesses in Baalbek said they saw dozens of IAF helicopters hovering over the city. They said the hospital in Baalbek, filled with patients and wounded people, was bombed by IAF helicopters late Tuesday. Plumes of burning smoke billowed from the hospital after it was directly hit, they said.
    And of course more collateral damage:
    Lebanese police reported at least twelve civilians were killed in an air strike on a village near Baalbek, Israel Radio reported. They said Israel Air Force planes bombarded the village of Jammaliyeh during clashes nearby in Baalbek. They said five members of the same family were found dead in one house and two more were found dead in another collapsed house. Six other villagers were killed and two wounded.
    DF commandos nab five low-level Hezbollah men in Baalbek raid Haaretz

    Re: Israel Captures Hezbollah Fighters, U.N. to Me (none / 0) (#15)
    by theologicus on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 10:40:13 AM EST
    Human Rights Watch has issued an important report that discusses war crimes in the current conflict. (Available easily at their website.)
    Human Rights Watch researchers have been in Lebanon since the onset of the current hostilities and have documented dozens of cases in which Israeli forces have carried out indiscriminate attacks against civilians while in their homes or traveling on roads to flee the fighting.... Human Rights Watch has also documented Hezbollah's deliberate and indiscriminate firing of Katyusha rockets into civilian areas in Israel, resulting in 18 civilian deaths to date. These serious violations of international humanitarian law are also war crimes. "War crimes by one party to a conflict never justify war crimes by another," Roth said.
    Roth makes the essential point.

    Re: Israel Captures Hezbollah Fighters, U.N. to Me (none / 0) (#16)
    by Andreas on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 10:44:23 AM EST
    The WSWS today published a statement of the Socialist Equality Party:
    There is every reason to believe that the horrors of the past three weeks--the bombardments that have reduced much of south Lebanon and southern Beirut to rubble and crippled a large part of the country's infrastructure, claiming some 700 lives, wounding thousands more and turning over three quarters of a million people into refugees--is only the prelude to an even greater slaughter. The war crime that claimed the lives of more than 60 people--most of them children--in the village of Qana is to be repeated throughout the region in the coming days and weeks. ... It is by now clear to all but the willfully blind that Hezbollah's capture of two Israeli soldiers July 12 was not the cause of the present war, but merely the pretext for launching a long-planned aggression. Nor was this war simply determined by the government of Israel, with Washington providing its blessing after the fact. On the contrary, it represents an extension and deepening of the US imperialist intervention in the Middle East launched with the invasion of Iraq more than three years ago. The aims of this war are not merely to secure Israel against Hezbollah, but to further US strategic goals in Central Asia and the Middle East, using the so-called "global war on terrorism" as the justification for a predatory policy directed at establishing Washington's stranglehold over the oil reserves concentrated in the region. This, in turn, is seen as critical to US imperialism's goal of achieving global hegemony.
    Slaughter in Lebanon enters fourth week What way forward in the struggle against war? Statement of the Socialist Equality Party, 2 August 2006

    Re: Israel Captures Hezbollah Fighters, U.N. to Me (none / 0) (#17)
    by Aaron on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 11:47:17 AM EST
    I'm not impressed by those who characterize Israel's action in Lebanon as massacring civilians. No doubt civilian deaths are occurring, far too many, most specifically young children. But the remarks of some of those including Representative Cynthia McKinney are nothing more than inflammatory rhetoric which helps to galvanize people in their positions, but will do nothing to influence the Bush administration in its handling of this situation. From a military standpoint, the Israelis are not doing what's in their best interest. Strictly from a military tactical perspective they should mount a massive invasion, cutting off the border with Syria and cutting off the northern mountainous region of Lebanon, trap the Hezbollah fighters in a pocket and push them toward the sea where they can be isolated and wiped out. Of course in such an operation you're going to have a minimum 12,000 to 15,000 civilian casualties, and you're going to wipe out a large segment of the male population of southern Lebanon, because that's who these Hezbollah fighters are, the indigenous people of the region. But in the immediate long-term Israel would deal a death blow to Hezbollah, at least until the young people of the region (what's left of them) grow up and take retribution for their fathers killings, and the death toll over a 10-year period would would ultimately be less in comparison. In this scenario, the US should support Israel with two aircraft carrier task force groups, and ground forces from Iraq. If we did so, the fighting would be over in Lebanon in a matter of weeks. Of course this will only inflame tensions and hatred throughout the Middle East, and likely provoke Syria and Iran. But of course that's exactly what many who have been advising the Bush administration would like to see. In the long-term, a wider war now which pacifiers the entire Middle East could perhaps head off the nuclear conflict which is likely to ensue at some point down the road in this region. Occupying the entire Middle East may not prevent this imminent conflict, but it may stave it off for a a decade or two. I'm not saying that I advocate this, but I understand its appeal. Those who take this position think that the Middle East can be reshaped by the military power of the West, and perhaps it can in the short-term. But over the long haul, these actions are going to come back to haunt us in our nightmares. The current Israeli government really has no idea what they're doing, that's obvious. In this respect their government mirrors our own. Too bad that so many young soldiers and civilians must die as a result of this profound lack of vision. Learn to practice war no more.

    Re: Israel Captures Hezbollah Fighters, U.N. to Me (none / 0) (#18)
    by Beck on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 11:47:34 AM EST
    A Hezbollah missile killed an Israeli civilian today. Haven't heard the apology from Hezbollah yet, I'm sure it will be forthcoming. Or perhaps one of the Hezbollah apologists around here would like to apologize on behalf of their idols.

    Re: Israel Captures Hezbollah Fighters, U.N. to Me (none / 0) (#19)
    by Slado on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 11:49:34 AM EST
    Andreas, WOW. The WSWS. What is the end game for the WSWS? If all their goals where met how great a country could the US be? Please describe the perfect utopia socialism has in store for me if I sign up. Wow. As to Isreal I hope they kill every Hezzbollah terrorist with a gun in their hands and as few "civilians" as possible. However war sucks and if civilians have to be killed to rid the world of Hezzbollah so be it.

    Re: Israel Captures Hezbollah Fighters, U.N. to Me (none / 0) (#20)
    by Bill Arnett on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 12:03:14 PM EST
    "Che - Hypocrites? No. A hypocrite is someone who won't condemn Cuba's civil rights violations while harping continualy about the US." PPJ above __ Sorry, ppj. You are off topic and again glaringly uninformed. For the ultimate in hypocrisy re: Israel, read U.N. Resolution 242. I suggest all TL readers and commenters do so in order to understand Israel has ignored the world's will since 1967. For new commenters, you will soon understand that ppj just plays for laughs, most of which he legitimately deserves for the ridiculous positions he takes and comments he makes. He really is a funny guy (though mostly untentionally, and ironically so).

    Re: Israel Captures Hezbollah Fighters, U.N. to Me (none / 0) (#21)
    by theologicus on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 12:19:37 PM EST
    From the International Commission of Jurists:
    The wanton destruction of the Beirut airport and civilian aircrafts are blatant examples of these destructions. Similarly, the bombing of undefended towns, villages and dwellings that are not military objectives, as well as the intentional attacks that will knowingly cause incidental loss of life or injury to civilians also constitute war crimes for which individuals can be held criminally responsible. "While Israel has a legitimate right to defend itself against hostage-taking and the launching of rockets by the Hezbollah over Israeli territory, this right is not unlimited and is subject to the restrictions of international law," said Mr Andreu-Guzman. "Indeed, the disproportionate and indiscriminate reactions of the Israeli military are reprisals against the civilian population and thus amount to collective punishment. Collective punishments constitute a war crime under international law", added Mr Andreu-Guzman.
    Similar statements have been made by every reputable international human rights organization, and by many UN officials, including the UN's High Commissioner for Human Rights, Louise Arbour. In the face of authoritative testimony, what impresses those who wish to turn a blind eye hardly matters.

    Re: Israel Captures Hezbollah Fighters, U.N. to Me (none / 0) (#22)
    by chew2 on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 12:33:24 PM EST
    Aaron, Your "tactical perspective" is highly optimistic, not that I think you really recommend this route. If Israel mobilizes all its reserves and undertakes a massive ground war, they cannot trap all the Hezbollah fighters. They will just melt away into the civilian population as they did before. Only to reemerge and reorganize when the Israelis withdraw or reduce their occupation forces as they must. The Israelis cannot just take out every 10th Shiite male and shoot him or put him in prison. Moreover, Israeli soldiers will pay in blood for every kilometer that they occupy since their armor advantage is not so useful in rocky Lebanon. So as you point out they are left to bombing from the air. This bombing can destroy Lebanon's economy and society but will not defeat Hezbolah's military capacity. Indeed, the more you weaken the Lebanese state, the stronger Hezbollah is likely to become. Strategically, armageddon is not just around the corner for the middle east or Israel, as much as some want to make this struggle. Iran is a potential military threat to Israel down the road, and Hezbollah is a potential deterrent for any Israeli attack on Iran. But some spasmodic war now, promses no greater stability for the future and will not eliminate Iran's military potential. Syria is militarily vulnerable. But attacking Syria will either strengthen its current secular regime, or cause it to be replaced by a more radical Islamicist one. In either case, more arms will flow thru it to Lebanon. A wider limited war will not simplify or solve problems, but make more problems. Those, like the neo-cons, who advocate this, have simply run out of ideas and revealed how bankrupt is their worldview and toolbox.

    Re: Israel Captures Hezbollah Fighters, U.N. to Me (none / 0) (#23)
    by Peaches on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 01:09:14 PM EST
    Andreas, WOW. The WSWS.
    Slado, Andreas has been posting links from the WSWS for as long as I have been coming here, since the spring of 2003. He doesn't hide from where his information comes from or his perspective. His perspective is a valid as any here and a welcome addition for most of us. You can dismiss it if you like. That is your perogative. You have your FOX and Rush, we have the WSWS. (sorry, Andraes, for the comparison)

    Re: Israel Captures Hezbollah Fighters, U.N. to Me (none / 0) (#24)
    by chew2 on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 01:24:07 PM EST
    Kidnapping vs. Capturing: The Israeli's themselves call what they did "kidnapping". Probably because they are being held for ransom or exchange.
    The operations have a multi-operational value. They give us a good intelligence picture. Tonight five Hizbullah members whose ages range from 20 to 54 were kidnapped and their names are known to us," the officer said.
    At this stage, it is very important to obtain bargaining chips among Hizbullah members in order to secure the release of our abducted soldiers," says Major General (Res.) Uzi Dayan, who during his 17-year career with the security establishment also headed elite IDF commando unit Sayeret Matkal.


    Re: Israel Captures Hezbollah Fighters, U.N. to Me (none / 0) (#25)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 02:03:59 PM EST
    sailor - Wrong as usual. Che brought the subject up.

    Re: Israel Captures Hezbollah Fighters, U.N. to Me (none / 0) (#26)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 02:13:38 PM EST
    chew 2 - Funny how you can't figure out that Hizbollah, per CNN, launched 255 missiles at Israel, today. Think they were aimed at military targets? You know they weren't, so please spare us the BS. Funny how you can't figure out that this war started AFTER Hizbollah attacked Israel and kidnapped two soldiers. Think that might have pis*off the Israel??? Funny how you can't figure out that the UN Resolution 1559 said:
    Calls for the disbanding and disarmament of all Lebanese and non-Lebanese militias;
    It is very, very, very sad you can't figure out if 1559 had been followed, Hizbollah wouldn't have been there to kidnap the Israeli soldiers and Qana wouldn't have been attacked and 255 missiles wouldn't have been launcged at civilian targets in Israel, today. It is sad you can't understand cause and effect.

    Re: Israel Captures Hezbollah Fighters, U.N. to Me (none / 0) (#27)
    by jondee on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 02:41:07 PM EST
    The U.N is the enemy of the U.S Jim. It's judgements and opinions are irrelevant because they're based on the desire of the U.S's enemies to dystroy it. So why do you keep invoking U.N resoloutions? Are you going to start quoting from The Little Red Book next; Castro's autobiography?

    Re: Israel Captures Hezbollah Fighters, U.N. to Me (none / 0) (#28)
    by theologicus on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 02:49:40 PM EST
    United Nations Security Council Resolutions Currently 
Being Violated by Israel From a comprehensive listing all UN Security Council Resolutions currently being violated by any country. By Professor Stephen Zunes. (Compiled in 2002.)
    Resolution 252 (1968) Israel
Urgently calls upon Israel to rescind measures that change the legal status of Jerusalem, including the expropriation of land and properties thereon. 262 (1968) Israel
Calls upon Israel to pay compensation to Lebanon for destruction of airliners at Beirut International Airport. 267 (1969) Israel
Urgently calls upon Israel to rescind measures seeking to change the legal status of occupied East Jerusalem. 271 (1969) Israel
Reiterates calls to rescind measures seeking to change the legal status of occupied East Jerusalem and calls on Israel to scrupulously abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention regarding the responsibilities of occupying powers. 298 (1971) Israel
Reiterates demand that Israel rescind measures seeking to change the legal status of occupied East Jerusalem. 446 (1979) Israel
Calls upon Israel to scrupulously abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention regarding the responsibilities of occupying powers, to rescind previous measures that violate these relevant provisions, and "in particular, not to transport parts of its civilian population into the occupied Arab territories." 452 (1979) Israel
Calls on the government of Israel to cease, on an urgent basis, the establishment, construction, and planning of settlements in the Arab territories, occupied since 1967, including Jerusalem. 465 (1980) Israel
Reiterates previous resolutions on Israel's settlements policy. 471 (1980) Israel
Demands prosecution of those involved in assassination attempts of West Bank leaders and compensation for damages; reiterates demands to abide by Fourth Geneva Convention. 484 (1980) Israel
Reiterates request that Israel abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention. 487 (1981) Israel
Calls upon Israel to place its nuclear facilities under the safeguard of the UN's International Atomic Energy Agency. 497 (1981) Israel
Demands that Israel rescind its decision to impose its domestic laws in the occupied Syrian Golan region. 573 (1985) Israel
Calls on Israel to pay compensation for human and material losses from its attack against Tunisia and to refrain from all such attacks or threats of attacks against other nations. 592 (1986) Israel
Insists Israel abide by the Fourth Geneva Conventions in East Jerusalem and other occupied territories. 605 (1987) Israel
"Calls once more upon Israel, the occupying Power, to abide immediately and scrupulously by the Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Times of War, and to desist forthwith from its policies and practices that are in violations of the provisions of the Convention." 607 (1986) Israel
Reiterates calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention and to cease its practice of deportations from occupied Arab territories. 608 (1988) Israel
Reiterates call for Israel to cease its deportations. 636 (1989) Israel
Reiterates call for Israel to cease its deportations. 641 (1989) Israel
Reiterates previous resolutions calling on Israel to desist in its deportations. 672 (1990) Israel
Reiterates calls for Israel to abide by provisions of the Fourth Geneva Convention in the occupied Arab territories. 673 (1990) Israel
Insists that Israel come into compliance with resolution 672. 681 (1990) Israel
Reiterates call on Israel to abide by Fourth Geneva Convention in the occupied Arab territories. 726 (1992) Israel
Reiterates calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention and to cease its practice of deportations from occupied Arab territories. 799 (1992) Israel
"Reaffirms applicability of Fourth Geneva Convention...to all Palestinian territories occupied by Israel since 1967, including Jerusalem, and affirms that deportation of civilians constitutes a contravention of its obligations under the Convention." 904 (1994) Israel
Calls upon Israel, as the occupying power, "to take and implement measures, inter alia, confiscation of arms, with the aim of preventing illegal acts of violence by settlers." 1073 (1996) Israel
"Calls on the safety and security of Palestinian 1303 (2000) Turkey/Cyprus
Reiterates UNSC resolutions 1283 and 1251. 1322 (2000) Israel
Calls upon Israel to scrupulously abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention regarding the responsibilities of occupying power. 1402 (2002) Israel
Calls for Israel to withdraw from Palestinian cities. 1403 (2002) Israel
Demands that Israel go through with "the implementation of its resolution 1402, without delay." 1405 (2002) Israel
Calls for UN inspectors to investigate civilian deaths during an Israeli assault on the Jenin refugee camp. 1435 (2002) Israel
Calls on Israel to withdraw to positions of September 2000 and end its military activities in and around Ramallah, including the destruction of security and civilian infrastructure.
    Needless to say none of this justifies war crimes being committed by hezbollah.

    Re: Israel Captures Hezbollah Fighters, U.N. to Me (none / 0) (#29)
    by John Mann on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 03:05:42 PM EST
    Aaron wrote:
    Strictly from a military tactical perspective they should mount a massive invasion, cutting off the border with Syria and cutting off the northern mountainous region of Lebanon, trap the Hezbollah fighters in a pocket and push them toward the sea where they can be isolated and wiped out.
    Excellent plan. Do they know who these guys are?

    Re: Israel Captures Hezbollah Fighters, U.N. to Me (none / 0) (#30)
    by John Mann on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 03:17:07 PM EST
    Jim instructively wrote:
    Che - Hypocrites? No. A hypocrite is someone who won't condemn Cuba's civil rights violations while harping continualy about the US.
    Or one might say a hypocrite is one who won't condemn Israel's human rights violations while harping continually about Hezbollah. Or maybe one who won't condemn American human rights violations in Iraq while harping continually about "insurgents". I think I'm getting the hang of this. BTW, Jim, I'm still waiting for you to show the video you claim shows Hezbollah using "human shields". I'm not holding my breath, mind you, but if you point me to it, I'll shut up (about it).

    Re: Israel Captures Hezbollah Fighters, U.N. to Me (none / 0) (#31)
    by chew2 on Thu Aug 03, 2006 at 12:24:36 AM EST
    TL
    Israeli's are backing their country's actions: Polls in Israel show wall-to-wall support for Israel's fight against Hezbollah, even with Israeli civilians enduring a barrage of rocket fire and the army poised for a sweeping ground offensive that is sure to lead to more casualties.
    Mirror Image?
    According to a poll released by the Beirut Center for Research and Information, 87 percent of Lebanese support Hizbullah's fight with Israel, a rise of 29 percent on a similar poll conducted in February. More striking, however, is the level of support for Hizbullah's resistance from non-Shiite communities. Eighty percent of Christians polled supported Hizbullah along with 80 percent of Druze and 89 percent of Sunnis.
    Polling Data Poll highlights Support for the Lebanese-backed resistance against Israel 86.9% Agreement with the capture of the two Israeli soldiers 70.1% Belief that Israel will never defeat Hezbollah 63.3%


    Re: Israel Captures Hezbollah Fighters, U.N. to Me (none / 0) (#32)
    by theologicus on Thu Aug 03, 2006 at 07:05:38 AM EST
    Today's Headlines (A select list) Israeli Assault on Lebanon: Map of Locations Bombed (July 12-28) Long war feared amid political deadlock Rights Group Accuses Israel of War Crimes Israel prepares for massive invasion Israel moves thousands of soldiers into Lebanon Israel resumes airstrikes on Beirut Olmert: Hezbollah Infrastructure Totally Destroyed Might in the air will not defeat guerillas in this bitter conflict Israel's strategic impasse Concern mounts that this is a war Israel is not going to win Israel is losing this war 'Crippled Hezbollah' Manages to Fire Over 200 Rockets Into Israel Hezbollah Rocket Reaches Farthest Point Yet Staying power adds to Hezbollah's appeal Despite Being Homeless, Refugees Vow Allegiance to Hezbollah Hezbollah Leader Nasrallah Reaching 'Legendary' Status Like it or not, Hezbollah is fact of life in Middle East Israeli Military 'Assumed' Qana Building Was Empty 'You go a bit crazy when you see little body after little body coming up out of the ground' Bodies Still in Ruins of Lebanon Homes The Refugees' Fury Will Be Felt for Generations to Come Aid groups call for cease fire in Lebanon U.S. insists cease-fire must await plan to disarm Hezbollah

    Re: Israel Captures Hezbollah Fighters, U.N. to Me (none / 0) (#33)
    by theologicus on Thu Aug 03, 2006 at 08:28:45 AM EST
    Ad published in Haaretz, August 3, 2006:
    After the war, The situation will be As it was before. A hundred speeches Of Olmert Will not change that. There is no military solution. Only a political settlement.
    Published by Gush Shalom (Israel Peace Bloc). Uri Avnery, the rather saintly leader of this group, is a voice for sanity. He served three terms in the Israeli Parliament (Knesset).

    Re: Israel Captures Hezbollah Fighters, U.N. to Me (none / 0) (#34)
    by Peaches on Thu Aug 03, 2006 at 09:14:24 AM EST
    Some great insights and an interesting take on coflict in Lebanon by Michael Ventura On what this means for Israels future:
    Israel's foreign policy has been predicated on the United States remaining a superpower indefinitely. But nothing goes on indefinitely, and it is questionable whether a nation that must borrow $2 billion a day is still a "super" power. When it is no longer in the strategic interests of China to support our consumerism (and that day will come), what happens to Israel? Nations are coldhearted; they rarely do what, in their vision (however flawed or blind), is not in their interest. No one but the U.S. has a strategic interest in Israel; it benefits no one else to support it financially. If the day comes that we cannot, then, having followed our lead in alienating most of the world, how does Israel survive? Can it?
    On the Bush/Cheney role in Israles aggression
    George Bush is in Russia face-to-face with leaders of the world's great powers. It simply is not credible that, at such a crucial juncture, the guy who's paying the freight doesn't have final say on whether or not such an escalation takes place. Whatever the provocation, the scale of escalation was a Bush-Cheney decision because, I believe, a larger plan was envisioned
    Plan?
    He came to the G8 with a very large carrot for Vladimir Putin, something Putin has desired very much: Russian entry into the World Trade Organization. For weeks, reports from all quarters signaled that the U.S. was ready for Russian entry to the WTO. According to The Christian Science Monitor (July 14, p.5): "Analysts say this 'carrot' that the White House is dangling is really more about Iran and winning Russia's support for a tougher stance." A much tougher stance. Action of some sort.
    but,
    Putin turned Bush down flat. As much as he's wanted membership in the WTO, whatever Bush was planning for Iran was too high a price. That is the only way to make sense of Putin's statement after Bush blocked membership: "We will not participate in any crusade, in any holy alliances." Putin made a point of calling the Iranians "our partners." Russia has oil. Lots. That oil could have mitigated the effects of an attack on Iran. Putin said no. In no uncertain terms. By his language he said clearly that anyone attacking Iran is attacking "our partners."
    and
    Bush thought he could buy Russia's collusion on Iran with a WTO membership. It didn't work. And Israel and Lebanon are left holding the very bloody bag. Palestinians, too.


    Re: Israel Captures Hezbollah Fighters, U.N. to Me (none / 0) (#35)
    by jondee on Thu Aug 03, 2006 at 11:22:16 AM EST
    Thanks for the Ventura link. Very illuminating - perusual. The article should be read in it's entirety.

    Re: Israel Captures Hezbollah Fighters, U.N. to Me (none / 0) (#36)
    by Edger on Thu Aug 03, 2006 at 02:15:57 PM EST
    US supplying Israel with NSA signals intelligence RAW STORY, August 3, 2006
    A report by columnist Sidney Blumenthal in Salon claims that Israel is receiving intelligence from the US's National Security Agency. Blumenthal claims to be in touch with "a national security official with direct knowledge of the operation" to supply Israel with signals intelligence from American assets to help it monitor armament transfers from Syria and Iran to Hezbollah. He states that President Bush has approved the intelligence sharing. Bush is being influenced by neoconservatives in his administration led by Vice President Dick Cheney's staff and Elliot Abrams, senior director for the Near East on the National Security Council. The group, according to Blumenthal, seeks to start a 'four front war' by giving Israel the pretext to strike Iran and Syria. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has been briefed, but is not a central actor in the plan.


    Re: Israel Captures Hezbollah Fighters, U.N. to Me (none / 0) (#37)
    by Sailor on Thu Aug 03, 2006 at 02:30:54 PM EST
    Leaked UK document sees "civil war" in Iraq Iraq is more likely to slide into civil war than turn into a democracy, Britain's outgoing ambassador to Baghdad wrote in a leaked diplomatic cable, the BBC public broadcaster reported on Thursday.
    Iraq Moving Toward Civil War, Top U.S. Commanders Say


    Re: Israel Captures Hezbollah Fighters, U.N. to Me (none / 0) (#38)
    by Aaron on Thu Aug 03, 2006 at 07:45:00 PM EST
    Peaches In regard to the story you posted, there is a very simple solution for all our problems and the problems of the Israeli government, it's called conquest. When a nation finds itself waning economically, and losing its grip on power, the options begin to narrow. It's the old story, if things aren't going your way, it's time to make war. Take what you need and destroy the rest. Many people think our country is above such things, but recent history is in opposition to that assumption, I guess we'll see. Christ I was mostly joking about that American empire stuff I've written in the past, I didn't really believe it. It was just a warning, but now I'm beginning to think my words may have been horrifically prophetic. What's happening in Lebanon at this moment is no coincidence, no accident. It serves a very specific purpose. But it's just a start. The Bush administration is going to have to make something happen before the November election. Otherwise the people of the United States just might regain some measure of control over this country, and this administration can't afford that. Pressure is building on the war mongers and the subverters of democracy. They're going to have to make their move or all will be lost for them. These are not the kind of people that will give over the reins of power without having a torn from their grasp. I shudder to think what they have in-store for us next, but I imagine it will be worse than we could possibly imagine, something that will convince the American people to cast aside our utopian dreams of freedom, justice and liberty for the sake of perceived survival. It seems the only solution to the dilemma this administration is facing. I pray I'm wrong, I pray the Republicans will lose the House, Senate and White House in the coming months, and we will see a return to sanity and reason. But perhaps it's too late for that. After the two previous presidential elections, I have little faith in the Democrats and their ability to turn us aside from this doomed path. If the Bush administration has their way, we'll have our choices reduced to bad and none, and somehow they'll find a way to still be sitting in the White House in 2009. Let me just take this opportunity to pledge my allegiance to God Emperor Bush, lest I find my head Spitted upon a pike at the city gates, or wind up being crucified by the roadside somewhere paving the way for this modern crusade. All hail the new American empire.

    Re: Israel Captures Hezbollah Fighters, U.N. to Me (none / 0) (#39)
    by Peaches on Fri Aug 04, 2006 at 07:27:43 AM EST
    Aaron, Yes, I'm afraid I agree, Change is going to happen and the power elite is pretty afraid, I'm afraid. Our economy is no stable and unsustainable. Our debt is coming due and resources are scarce. The climate is changing. All this means something is gonna have to give. Change doesn't have to be bad, but with all the wealth held in so few hands, it is likely to get ugly. In addition, when things do start to happen fast, it will be blamed by the power elite, on scapegoats and the media will fall in line. Leftists will be a target as their voice will be initially loud concerning democratic initiatives, the economic injustice, constituional rights, human rights, etc. The power elite will feel the need to silence this voice and war is one way to do that. We are already seeing that. My plan, while I am watching the sky falling, is to just spend as much time in my garden as possible and try to stay as far removed as I can, until a missile hits my small pickup truck loaded with relatives evacuating from the combat zone.