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Weekend Reading and Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Sat Sep 16, 2006 at 11:36:37 AM EST
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Some things to read today if you're online:

As the President readies himself to go to the map for his right to order torture in violation of America's laws and international commitments, it's worth putting this in some context.

  • The Talking Dog interviews Dr. Steven Miles, medical professor at the U. of Minnesota, and author of "Oath Betrayed" discussing medical complicity in torture, prisoner abuse, et al, in the war on terror.
  • Law Professor Jordan Paust's plea to Congress urging that minimum due process guarantees under customary international law must not be denied when Congress attempts to articulate forms of procedure for new US military commissions
  • Warren Strobel and John Walcott on how Bush is gearing up for an attack on Iran -- based once again on faulty intelligence:

Some officials at the CIA, the Defense Intelligence Agency and the State Department said they're concerned that the offices of Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld and Vice President Dick Cheney may be receiving a stream of questionable information that originates with Iranian exiles, including a discredited arms dealer, Manucher Ghorbanifar, who played a role in the 1980s Iran-Contra scandal.

Officials at all three agencies said they suspect that the dubious information may include claims that Iran directed Hezbollah, the Lebanese militant group, to kidnap two Israeli soldiers in July; that Iran's nuclear program is moving faster than generally believed; and that the Iranian people are eager to join foreign efforts to overthrow their theocratic rulers.

The officials said there is no reliable intelligence to support any of those assertions and some that contradicts all three.

Larisa at Raw Story has been writing similar reports for a long time.

The Department of Defense and Vice President Dick Cheney have retained the services of Iran-Contra arms dealer and discredited intelligence asset Manucher Ghorbanifar as their "man on the ground," in order to report on any interaction and attempts at negotiations between Iranian officials and US ambassador to Iraq, Zelmay Khalilzad, current and former intelligence officials say.

Speaking on condition of anonymity, three intelligence sources identified the Iran-Contra middleman as having been put back on the payroll, acting as a human intelligence asset and monitoring any movement in discussions about Iran's alleged burgeoning nuclear weapons program.

< Dog the Bounty Hunter Makes Bail | John Yoo's Falsehoods >

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    Weekend Reading and Open Thread | 22 comments (22 topical)
    Re: Weekend Reading and Open Thread (none / 0) (#1)
    by Zeno on Sat Sep 16, 2006 at 12:51:08 PM EST
    You mean the president is preparing to "go to the mat" (as in wrestling), I think. In reality, it doesn't matter where the president is preparing to go. The sucker is going to lose his full-court press in favor of torturing suspected bad guys.

    Re: Weekend Reading and Open Thread (none / 0) (#2)
    by Zeno on Sat Sep 16, 2006 at 12:54:07 PM EST
    Heh. It's Matt's mistake, isn't it? Serve me right for not being more discerning when reading posts via a blog reader that doesn't fully render indents and stuff.

    Re: Weekend Reading and Open Thread (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Sep 16, 2006 at 03:21:35 PM EST
    Is the War on Terror intended to protect Americans, or is it just another excuse for the Authoritarian State, like the War on Drugs? If the latter, the government must keep the terror "threat" alive. An attack on Iran would advance that goal. It must be stopped.

    Re: Weekend Reading and Open Thread (none / 0) (#6)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Sep 16, 2006 at 04:40:33 PM EST
    James - Given that Iran has stated that they will destroy Israel, and that the hate America, what would you have the Bush Administration do? Do you disbelieve Iran? Would you just ignore Iran? Please tell me. I mean the situation is very simple.

    Re: Weekend Reading and Open Thread (none / 0) (#3)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Sep 16, 2006 at 04:51:56 PM EST
    September 17th is Constitution Day. A perfect time to focus on what really matters...our rights, and how to stop lil wannabe emperors from taking them away. It's amazing that for the first time in two hundred and nineteen years we have a so-called leader who is brazenly and publicly wiping his derriere with the Bill of Rights. At least Nixon and Reagan had the common decency to keep their crimes a secret and lie about it once it was discovered.

    Re: Weekend Reading and Open Thread (none / 0) (#5)
    by BigTex on Sat Sep 16, 2006 at 04:51:56 PM EST
    Since this is an open thread... Is dressing up as a Confederate Officer (not Forrest) for Halloween an inherently offensive act? What if it is not meant in malice?

    Re: Weekend Reading and Open Thread (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Sep 16, 2006 at 05:40:16 PM EST
    You're absolutely right, JimakaPPJ. Iran is a horrible threat to Israel's security. Why, any minute she could just swoop over there in her millions and wipe it off the map. In reality, Iran will stop being a problem the day our leaders and their enablers stop acting like spoiled babies. She is the great power in the region and our leaders need to get off their lazy asses and deal with her. Also -- and listen to me very carefully when I say this -- the United States is not effin' Israel. Her interests are not our interests. If you and your kind don't understand that you're more than welcome to move there.

    Re: Weekend Reading and Open Thread (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Sep 16, 2006 at 08:34:02 PM EST
    Princeton researchers have just shown how to steal an election with a Diebold machine in less than a minute. This "technology" has no place near an election. It makes stuffing the ballot boxes look impossibly arcane.

    Re: Weekend Reading and Open Thread (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Sep 16, 2006 at 09:26:39 PM EST
    It's just occurred to me, JimakaPPJ, that you may be Jewish. If you are, my comment "your kind" meant, not just right-wing Jews, but Zionist Christians. I'd actually assumed you were the latter. The term "your kind" means everyone who's made a virtue out of betraying the United States in the interests of a foreign power that I consider to be an extremely hostile, extremely dangerous threat to her security. We've been far too lazy with our terminology when dealing with this country. It's become a reflexive understanding that everything she wants, no matter how unreasonable, we have to give her. We also think its okay for her to infest our government and our society with her spies.

    Re: Weekend Reading and Open Thread (none / 0) (#10)
    by Dadler on Sat Sep 16, 2006 at 09:26:39 PM EST
    Oops last post by Dadler.

    Re: Weekend Reading and Open Thread (none / 0) (#11)
    by Dadler on Sat Sep 16, 2006 at 09:26:39 PM EST
    Jim, Do you think the rhetoric from some Iranian leaders tranlastes into their literal desire to end their own nation? Can you perhaps factor in the chasm between talk and reality? Engaging Iran like we never have before, being straightforward and honest about our own wretched history of meddling in that nation (assasinating the freely elected Prime Minister), this would allow us to approach Iran's own meddling in the region with at least a smidgen of credibility and humanity, and a big leg up in the honesty department. Which is much more than the mullahs and theocrats can offer. But if we simply play tough-guy, lacking the humility to admit and learn from our own mistakes, then we're doomed to simply repeat an already dismal history there.

    Re: Weekend Reading and Open Thread (none / 0) (#12)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Sep 16, 2006 at 10:05:41 PM EST
    Who is Iran? I know who the president is, but he doesn't speak for all Iranians. Will our smart bombs be able to discern between the Iranians who support the mullahs, and the ones that oppose them? Does Jim care? Apparently not.

    Re: Weekend Reading and Open Thread (none / 0) (#13)
    by roy on Sat Sep 16, 2006 at 10:59:38 PM EST
    Can any of the loyal Leftists out there recommend a book on economics with a liberal spin? I like the subject, but everything so far has been pretty pure conservative / libertarian dogma. I'd like to assume that's because Free Marketism is the One True Path, but a little balance would be better. That, and some books just knock down defunct Marxist stuff as the only alternative to unbridled capitalism. Does modern liberal economic thought have anything to offer?

    Re: Weekend Reading and Open Thread (none / 0) (#14)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Sep 17, 2006 at 06:09:37 AM EST
    Dadler writes:
    Can you perhaps factor in the chasm between talk and reality?
    Actually Dadler I have developed this habit of believeing that people who threaten me with harm actually want to do so, and will do so if not stopped. Especially when they have attacked me in he past. Che - And do you think that Daniel Pearl existed in a vacuum? Pneumatikon - No need to explain about the "your kind" comments. You despise Jews and conservative Christians, that is plain. I would also guess you have a lot of other dislikes, and that along with "your kind" you have "some of my best friends are" comments. Just spare me the lecture and excuses. You are what you are and anyone can see it. And I am neither a Jew or a Zionist Christian, whatever that is. I am a social liberal who understands that a radical minority of Moslems are attacking us, just as they have been attacking Israel for almost 50 years. If we bow to their wishes you will find that saying "your kind" to your local Imam will lead to more than disagreement. Maybe 50 lashes? Maybe a tongue ripped out? Israel is a partner in the war against terror. Israel is also a liberal democracy and an ally in a world in which we have few. As for Iran, you might try and understand that the leaders of Iran, and the radical Moslems around the world, mean exactly what they say.

    Re: Weekend Reading and Open Thread (none / 0) (#15)
    by Edger on Sun Sep 17, 2006 at 09:16:26 AM EST
    I have developed this habit of believeing that people who threaten me with harm actually want to do so, and will do so if not stopped.... Especially when they have attacked me in he past.
    And of course good social liberals don't let facts get in the way of a good story............. Radical Moslems... mean exactly what they say:
    "The events that affected my soul in a direct way started in 1982 when America permitted the Israelis to invade Lebanon and the American Sixth Fleet helped them in that. This bombardment began and many were killed and injured and others were terrorised and displaced." "I couldn't forget those moving scenes, blood and severed limbs, women and children sprawled everywhere. Houses destroyed along with their occupants and high rises demolished over their residents, rockets raining down on our home without mercy." "The situation was like a crocodile meeting a helpless child, powerless except for his screams. Does the crocodile understand a conversation that doesn't include a weapon? And the whole world saw and heard but it didn't respond." "And as I looked at those demolished towers in Lebanon, it entered my mind that we should punish the oppressor in kind and that we should destroy towers in America in order that they taste some of what we tasted and so that they be deterred from killing our women and children."
    Radical Moslems... mean exactly what they say, unlike radical christian wingnuts who misrepresent themselves as 'social liberal'.
    Posted by JimakaPPJ
    February 11, 2006 09:16 PM

    et al - To keep my reputation up, I offer you, Muslim Opinion Be Damned"
    ---edger

    Re: Weekend Reading and Open Thread (none / 0) (#16)
    by Edger on Sun Sep 17, 2006 at 09:20:06 AM EST
    I have developed this habit of believeing that people who threaten me with harm actually want to do so, and will do so if not stopped.... Especially when they have attacked me in he past.
    And of course good social liberals don't let facts get in the way of a good story............. Radical Moslems... mean exactly what they say:
    "The events that affected my soul in a direct way started in 1982 when America permitted the Israelis to invade Lebanon and the American Sixth Fleet helped them in that. This bombardment began and many were killed and injured and others were terrorised and displaced." "I couldn't forget those moving scenes, blood and severed limbs, women and children sprawled everywhere. Houses destroyed along with their occupants and high rises demolished over their residents, rockets raining down on our home without mercy." "The situation was like a crocodile meeting a helpless child, powerless except for his screams. Does the crocodile understand a conversation that doesn't include a weapon? And the whole world saw and heard but it didn't respond." "And as I looked at those demolished towers in Lebanon, it entered my mind that we should punish the oppressor in kind and that we should destroy towers in America in order that they taste some of what we tasted and so that they be deterred from killing our women and children."
    Radical Moslems... mean exactly what they say, unlike radical christian wingnuts who misrepresent themselves as 'social liberal'.
    Posted by JimakaPPJ
    February 11, 2006 09:16 PM

    et al - To keep my reputation up, I offer you, Muslim Opinion Be Damned"
    Re: Weekend Reading and Open Thread (none / 0) (#17)
    by Dadler on Sun Sep 17, 2006 at 11:06:50 AM EST
    Jim, Iran has never attacked the U.S. Period. Unless you're going to justify invading them on the basis of the 1979 Hostage crisis, in which case they should be pretty pissed at us for ASSASINATING THEIR FREELY ELECTED PRIME MINISTER only a few decades before that. If we do not stand up as evolved people, as an evolved nation, and speak the truth of our OWN history, how can we expect to influence another country to speak the truth about its history or present reality? If you're as big a c*ck as the other guy, then it's pretty much a c*ck-off. And who cares who wins that, it's going to result in the same kind of useless "solution". We...can...do....better.

    Re: Weekend Reading and Open Thread (none / 0) (#18)
    by john horse on Sun Sep 17, 2006 at 05:25:39 PM EST
    Bush threatens to stop his program to torture people in secret locations if Congress doesn't pass his bill. And the down side of Congress not passing his bill is?

    Re: Weekend Reading and Open Thread (none / 0) (#19)
    by Sailor on Sun Sep 17, 2006 at 06:16:36 PM EST
    John Horse, I thought the same thing, for some odd reason bush reminds me of Cleavon Little holding himself hostage in Blazing Saddles: "The next man makes a move, the ni**er gets it!"

    Re: Weekend Reading and Open Thread (none / 0) (#20)
    by Repack Rider on Sun Sep 17, 2006 at 06:25:57 PM EST
    you might try and understand that the leaders of Iran, and the radical Moslems around the world, mean exactly what they say.
    They "said" they wanted to meet Mr. Bush in person at the UN and discuss the issues in public. Guess who refused.

    Re: Weekend Reading and Open Thread (none / 0) (#22)
    by Aaron on Mon Sep 18, 2006 at 03:58:24 AM EST
    Protect Children, Not Guns [The rate of firearm deaths among children under age 15 is far higher in the U.S. than in 25 other industrialized countries­ combined.]

    Re: Weekend Reading and Open Thread (none / 0) (#23)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Sep 18, 2006 at 07:07:56 AM EST
    Senior Republican Foreign Relations Committee Staff Reports "Bolton Confirmation Dead" --Steve Clemons, TWN
    The Washington Post has run an article [...] stating that the administration's effort to get John Bolton "confirmed" is now essentially dead...
    "It's dead as far as the Senate is concerned," said one Republican official at the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, where Chafee holds the decisive vote. "Chafee made it a 9 to 9 vote, and that's not going to change." A Senate Republican leadership aide added: "Chafee holds Bolton's future in his hands, and people are very worried he's going to squeeze and never let go." [emphasis added]
    ---edger

    Weekend Reading and Open Thread | 22 comments (22 topical)