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It's Time to Declassify the NIE

By Jeralyn, Section War In Iraq
Posted on Mon Sep 25, 2006 at 01:36:30 PM EST
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Via Josh Marshall,

We're hearing that Sen. Rockefeller, ranking member of the Senate intel committee, has just come out for declassifying and releasing the April NIE. We're trying to confirm.

Late Update: Confirmed.

Later Update: Hillary just came out for it too.

David Corn has more in his Nation column on why the NIE should be declassfied.

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    It's Time to Declassify the NIE | 20 comments (20 topical)
    Re: It's Time to Declassify the NIE (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Sep 25, 2006 at 02:49:32 PM EST
    sounds interesting-now the leakers who violated the law get to have the trump card on the release of classified documents? how about, instead of releasing it, we subpoena the reporter and throw him in jail if he refuses to identify his source(s)? once we have the names, we can determine if they are partisan hacks a la joe wilson-either way, they should go to prison for their cowardly hiding behind the screen.

    Re: It's Time to Declassify the NIE (none / 0) (#2)
    by mpower1952 on Mon Sep 25, 2006 at 02:49:32 PM EST
    I called my two Senators and rep to urge them to weigh in on the matter and ask for it to be declassified. But then I live in TN so it was kind of like talking to a wall. But who knows, pigs may fly one day.

    Re: It's Time to Declassify the NIE (none / 0) (#3)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Sep 25, 2006 at 03:38:51 PM EST
    et al - Given that the NIE report was, and is classified, can we please have a Special Prosecutor to investigate the leakers? I smell a conspiracy between a Demo and the Press to put this country at risk!

    Re: It's Time to Declassify the NIE (none / 0) (#4)
    by Sailor on Mon Sep 25, 2006 at 04:13:06 PM EST
    Ahh, ppj and his constant conspiracy theories. The question is why did bush continue to lie to the American people even after he knew the contents of this NIE since April?

    Re: It's Time to Declassify the NIE (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Sep 25, 2006 at 04:35:44 PM EST
    sounds interesting-now the leakers who violated the law get to have the trump card on the release of classified documents? how about, instead of releasing it, we subpoena the reporter and throw him in jail From Corn's article:
    If the White House was able to release parts of that NIE on WMDs, it can do the same with the NIE on Iraq and terrorism. It may, though, not be motivated to do so.
    ---edger

    Re: It's Time to Declassify the NIE (none / 0) (#6)
    by Richard Aubrey on Mon Sep 25, 2006 at 05:53:04 PM EST
    There once was a NIE.... Crap. Can't do a limerick. There once was a NIE which said Iraq had WMD programs. People afterwards said the intel folks either stunk or were coerced. This one, though, seems to be pure gold. Right? Unfortunately for you, the various estimates, only one of which has been remarked upon, will be in the entire report and what you're hoping for will blow away like dust. You know. Like Fitzmas. Sailor. Bush had the entire NIE, not the slanted remarks by somebody who is referring to part of it to make a political point. I love you guys. If you had more feet, you'd need more bullets.

    Re: It's Time to Declassify the NIE (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Sep 25, 2006 at 05:55:18 PM EST
    So this NIE was completed in April 2006. Democratic leaders knew nothing about it when they asked for a new one in late July http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=69809 Negroponte kept them in ignorance in early August when he promised a new Iraq NIE "shortly" http://www.statesman.com/news/content/news/stories/nation/08/5intel.html I wonder if this new one we're promised will still come out, and whether it'll amount to a 'cherrypicked' version of the original April document? It now sounds very much like the Director of National Intelligence is playing partisan politics with national security here.

    Re: It's Time to Declassify the NIE (none / 0) (#8)
    by roy on Mon Sep 25, 2006 at 06:11:58 PM EST
    Sailor,
    Ahh, ppj and his constant conspiracy theories.
    I think Jim is (justifiably, imho) pointing out the incongruous response to leaks that benefit the administration and this one that doesn't. I don't have a general solution for when it's OK to leak information and when it isn't, but it looks like some people (on both sides) think it hinges on whether it hurts Bush & Friends. I'll give Jim Hell when he's full of it, but even a stopped clock is right twice a day... though Jim seems to still be on military time.

    Re: It's Time to Declassify the NIE (none / 0) (#9)
    by bad Jim on Tue Sep 26, 2006 at 01:18:52 AM EST
    Didn't we, the public, pay for the NIE? If this is a democracy, shouldn't we citizens be entitled to our own information? Or should we content ourselves with the hope that our betters will do the right thing? Even the self-described libertarians among us seem to think we can't be trusted with raw, or even partially processed information. The people who were for the war continue to insist that they were right to be wrong, that we were wrong to be right, and thus that we should listen to them. There's a problem with that, and that may have something to do with their insistence on depriving us of future intelligence.

    Re: It's Time to Declassify the NIE (none / 0) (#10)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Sep 26, 2006 at 04:55:28 AM EST
    roy - Why thank you. Your kindness is just so...... well.... something. et al - NIE's are classified because they contain information that we do not want our enemies to know. That is, the release of the information helps our enemies and hurts our country. Thanks, Demos. Thanks those of the Left. There is no doubt a to your priorities.

    Re: It's Time to Declassify the NIE (none / 0) (#15)
    by roy on Tue Sep 26, 2006 at 08:01:54 AM EST
    PPJ,
    Why thank you. Your kindness is just so...... well.... something.
    Reluctant. Being on your side in an argument sucks. It's like having an inflatable clown punching bag as a team mate in a wrestling match.
    NIE's are classified because they contain information that we do not want our enemies to know. That is, the release of the information helps our enemies and hurts our country.
    The people with the big red "CLASSIFIED" stamp have various motivations and competencies. As the Supreme Court rather famously determined in the Pentagon Papers case, just 'cuz something is classified doesn't mean it really hurts the country if it leaks. If that doesn't ring a bell, I'll get you a quote this evening -- it's one of the few things I've read in paper-and-ink form, and I don't take the book to work with me.

    Re: It's Time to Declassify the NIE (none / 0) (#11)
    by Edger on Tue Sep 26, 2006 at 09:16:08 AM EST
    the release of the information helps our enemies and hurts our country Especially when you identify your enemies as anyone who questions bush's immoral war, and mean "bush" when you say "country". Go sell some toliet water, will you?

    Re: It's Time to Declassify the NIE (none / 0) (#12)
    by Richard Aubrey on Tue Sep 26, 2006 at 09:16:08 AM EST
    One fed attorney who prosecuted the first WTC bombers made an interesting observation. He was forced, by the rules of discovery and a lefty judge, to turn over to the defense classified material. The defense attorneys of course swore they'd never leak it. Being defense attorneys, of course, al Q had the stuff in a month. The requests to see classified material are only secondarily to satisfy a lefty's curiosity. Anyway, there are more parts of the report leaked than the lefty symps are pretending are out there already and they seriously damage the leftie's talking points. Which is why I'd like to see as much of it as is safe come out. You'd have to think of something else. You know, not everything you peddle has the shelf life of Fitzmas ("What's that?", I hear you saying), and some if can turn around and bite you in a week. But will you listen to Aubrey? Nooooo.

    Re: It's Time to Declassify the NIE (none / 0) (#14)
    by Dadler on Tue Sep 26, 2006 at 09:16:08 AM EST
    The difference between a good leak and a bad leak is the difference between what is important and vital for the public good and what isn't. That our "strategy" for the WOT is non-existent and always has been is certainly of public import, and the results of that lack of strategy and how they've harmed the larger cause, and thus the American people, are certainly the free public's right to know. We all know that when it is in their narrow political interest (that is, keeping the public poll numbers on their side) the administration will hide and keep things from us. Any base of power will. Unless we've lost entirely our ability to think for ourselves, the question of good leak vs. bad leak isn't a difficult one to discern. As for helping our enemies, we've done more than enough already. It's time to come clean with the American people and stand up and be adults and evolved people, and FREE people, and face the errors and incompetence and MAKE A CHANGE to improve. That is what freedom is about, the ability to say "No, the government is wrong and has been from the start and we have to change it." Without that ability, freedom is nothing. Just window-dressing that serves no purpose. Then again, if we're more afraid of the American public than "the terrorists", which seems to be the case so often, well, we're not going to get much of anything from this administration. They think we are children, and that no one but them can tuck us into our beds safely at night. The American people have the right to be wrong, so does the government. But the government doesn't have the right to hide from the public that factual information which evidences to the free American public how serious that wrong is.

    Re: It's Time to Declassify the NIE (none / 0) (#16)
    by Dadler on Tue Sep 26, 2006 at 09:31:48 AM EST
    Seems Bush is releasing some of the NIE, but chiding all of us that we're naive. We shall see. But going on his actual record in office, from "crusade" to "mission accomplished" to "bring 'em on" and all the ignorance that bore them, and all the wishful thinking that constituted the ONLY strategy for Iraq (and Afghanistan), well, I think naive is a word he owns. That said, perhaps the leak will turn out to be false, and the report will actually say the WOT is strategically sound, tactically solid, that Iraq was vital and has been an unquestioned success (which IS the Bush line, after all), that Afghanistan hasn't been relegated, that terrorism is suffering, on the wane, and that we're all so much safer because of it. Then again, we'll never see what we'll never see. Parts is parts, as the old fast-food commercial went. And with Negroponte, of all creeps, to be the "decider" on what is safe to reveal and what isn't isn't any inducement to confidence. --Dadler

    Re: It's Time to Declassify the NIE (none / 0) (#17)
    by yank in london on Tue Sep 26, 2006 at 02:48:18 PM EST
    I can hear the White House arguments now. "We can't declassify this because then they'll find out what we know. And we don't know very much!"

    Re: It's Time to Declassify the NIE (none / 0) (#19)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Sep 26, 2006 at 07:29:53 PM EST
    roy - You continue to demonstrate an amazing grasp of the routine. There is a vast difference between the PP and this NIE. Dadler writes:
    The difference between a good leak and a bad leak is the difference between what is important and vital for the public good and what isn't.
    Once you start to justify there is no end, and the most powerful win. et al - Okay boys and girls, here is the NIE: United States-led counterterrorism efforts have seriously damaged the leadership of al-Qa'ida and disrupted its operations.... That is what we are supposed to be doing. Keeping'em from attacking. As you read it, keep in mind that it is now six months old. Ta Ta

    Re: It's Time to Declassify the NIE (none / 0) (#18)
    by jimcee on Tue Sep 26, 2006 at 09:13:03 PM EST
    As far as a redacted NIE report being made public is concerned that is fine by me. To those that want the whole thing released you are unserious. Funny how you didn't demand that last Friday, that is until you received your talking points from the Mothership that is KOS et al. You were just happy to have been fed little tiny bits that suited you views. Obviously the Dem leadership didn't want the whole thing made public otherwise they wouldn't have requested a secret session to review it now would they? This is just more of the same political hackery that passes for smart politics on the Left. After reading the foolish comments on this site for years now I have come to one conclusion and that is that most of the correspondents who think that they are smarter than the Bushies are really just idiots. To them everything that goes wrong for thier side is either because Karl Rove made them look like fools or the American people are too stupid and they fall for chicken little nonsense that all the smart people see for what it is. In reality the fools are those who think they are so much smarter than everyone else no matter how wrong they are proved. Fitzmas? Who were the fools that thought anything was going to come from that nonsense? The 'smart' folks on the Left. Who fell for Dan Rather's dubious Nat'l Guard papers? The Left. Who just took the rope-a-dope on the NIE? Take a wild guess. The Netroots have become the Nutroots and for that I blame Karl Rove and those that keep taking his bait.

    Re: It's Time to Declassify the NIE (none / 0) (#20)
    by Ambiorix on Tue Sep 26, 2006 at 09:13:03 PM EST
    Aha! that is why your comments are always so misinformed: you never read a text further than halfway the first line

    Re: It's Time to Declassify the NIE (none / 0) (#21)
    by Dadler on Wed Sep 27, 2006 at 02:43:10 PM EST
    Jim, The American people don't have the right to know absolutely as much as possible? Should that not always be the goal, to keep free citizens as informed as absolutely positively possible? Isn't that what a government by, of and for the people should be doing? The funny fact you can't get around is Bush RELEASED what was leaked -- the conclusions, the summary of the situation. So OBVIOUSLY there was NOTHING harmful in releasing them EVER. So why didn't they just release this valuable and expert information and opinion a long time ago? Because it did not make them look good. This is as obvious as the nose on your face. That should make you angry, by your own logic. They hid expert opinion and advice from you, as a free American citizen, for no other reason than their own fear of the free American public's political judgement. As for the perjorative use of the word "justify" you employ, do you think it has a less perjorative meaning when you continue to "justify" an ill-advised and terribly run war (by those at the top, Bush being the topmost) that actually kills many people every day? Whether it was a good idea or not aside (and you know I don't think it was), you still have to look at the pitiful reality: we went in there with NO strategy whatsoever beyond a best-case-scenario FANTASY. That is what it was, a pure child's dream. For heaven's sake, we didn't even HAVE counterinsurgency training prior to this war. Forget being ready to face one when we got in there, the military didn't even have the TRAINING for it available. Sadly, believing they would never again face a situation like Vietnam, the armed forces didn't implement on any institutional level the awful but valuable lessons learned figthing the Viet-Cong. We went into Iraq on factually false pretenses, with absolutely no viable military strategy. The latter is even more inarguable than the former. So why does he get Bush get a pass, when others don't? You talk about all the bloody blame Clinton deserves for his failures with AQ and bin Laden (which, by the way, he admits -- again, as all evolved and mature adults do), and yet you bring NONE of that same critical standard to judging Bush. Nada. Zilch. He just skates. You're so easy on him it's beyond me. At the very least, as the commander and chief of the Armed Forces, Bush has failed and miserably so. And his inability to grasp that failure and LEARN FROM IT, as all evolved and mature adults do, is maddening and depressing. --Dadler

    It's Time to Declassify the NIE | 20 comments (20 topical)