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UVA Teammates: George Felix Allen A "Racist"

(Guest Post by Big Tent Democrat)

The plot thickens:

Three former college football teammates of Sen. George Allen say that the Virginia Republican repeatedly used an inflammatory racial epithet and demonstrated racist attitudes toward blacks during the early 1970s.
"Allen said he came to Virginia because he wanted to play football in a place where 'blacks knew their place,'" said Dr. Ken Shelton, a white radiologist in North Carolina who played tight end for the University of Virginia football team when Allen was quarterback. "He used the N-word on a regular basis back then."

A second white teammate, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he feared retribution from the Allen campaign, separately claimed that Allen used the word "nigger" to describe blacks. "It was so common with George when he was among his white friends. This is the terminology he used," the teammate said.

A third white teammate contacted separately, who also spoke on condition of anonymity out of fear of being attacked by the Virginia senator, said he too remembers Allen using the word "nigger," though he said he could not recall a specific conversation in which Allen used the term. "My impression of him was that he was a racist," the third teammate said.

Deep macaca indeed.

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    Re: UVA Teammates: George Felix Allen A "Racist" (none / 0) (#1)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Sep 25, 2006 at 05:14:21 AM EST
    Ah the old race card trick. What's next? Allen will destroy Social Security? Followed by, Allen will destroy Medicare? Besides, who does the Democrats think Allen is?? The senior Senator from West Virginia?

    Re: UVA Teammates: George Felix Allen A "Racist" (none / 0) (#2)
    by Molly Bloom on Mon Sep 25, 2006 at 05:52:35 AM EST
    I thought you were a self described social liberal JimakakaPPJ. As such I thought you would decry racism. Allen, public official keeps a confederate flag in his office. I am a southerner. I was born and lived 45 years out of 46 in Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia and Florida. The confederate battle flag to some represents the patriotism of their ancestors to their region. (we can discuss whether firing upon Fort Sumter was an act of treason some other time). To others, that is the flag used by the KKK and other white supremecists groups as well as the flag of those who fought to keep their ancestors enslaved. The flag has a lot of history behind it. And you cannot only pick the history you like. You have to take both, because that is what the flag represents. As a public official, does Allen only represent some white people who only see what they want to see with the flag, namely the patriotism of their ancestors fighting for thier region (again we can discuss the lack of patriotism in trying to break up the union some other time)? Or as a public official, does Allen represent all Virginians, black and white? Are African Americans not southerners? Are there no African American Virginians? In choosing to ignore the part of the flag he doesn't like, and flying it in his office, is Allen disprespecting the views of his consitutients? Does he not owe Virginian African American voters some loyalty? Now we have an article in which 3 former U VA football player teammates of Allen, one on the record with his name, accuse Allen of being a racist when they knew him in 1972. You, self described social liberal, don't think that is serious? You don't think it worth investigating further? Especially when coupled with Allen's discomfort with his Jewish heritage and predeliction for being photographed with the concerned citizens council- you know, the group that got Trent Lott hot water with the Whitehouse that they backed Frist as majority leader in a senate fight. You dismiss this with the "racism card" comment? What kind of social liberal does that?

    Re: UVA Teammates: George Felix Allen A "Racist" (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Sep 25, 2006 at 07:14:47 AM EST
    Let's see some years ago, fmr Pres Clinton loathed the military, Sen. Byrd was Grand Kleagle of the KKK, Pres. Bush did drugs and evily joined the reserves, Sen Kennedy killed a lady by doing nothing while she drowned, and fmr Pres Nixon tried to bug dem hq and then covered it up. Yep, I say we should live in the past.

    Re: UVA Teammates: George Felix Allen A "Racist" (none / 0) (#5)
    by Molly Bloom on Mon Sep 25, 2006 at 08:07:27 AM EST
    Speaking of living in the past, did Allen take down the flag in his office? If not this issue isn't past, is it? Does Allen represent all Viriginians or just the white ones? (see previous my post for context). Although I would suggest anyone carrying a torch for the "lost cause" is living in the past.

    Re: UVA Teammates: George Felix Allen A "Racist" (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Sep 25, 2006 at 08:55:05 AM EST
    maybe molly, a good old fashioned far left new yorker, probably still wondering what we did to deserve 9/11, should go and campaign against Allen. that should win some votes in the south.

    Re: UVA Teammates: George Felix Allen A "Racist" (none / 0) (#7)
    by cpinva on Mon Sep 25, 2006 at 08:55:05 AM EST
    wile, please cite your source for "fmr Pres Clinton loathed the military". Sen. Byrd hasn't tried to hide his past, nor has Sen. Kennedy. with regards to bush and allen, both have. of course, with respect to allen, we aren't actually talking about the past, we're talking about the present. when he was gov. of va, he proudly had a confederate battle flag tacked up on the wall behind his desk, and consorted with groups anathema to minorities. he still does. interestingly, he doesn't even have the excuse of "honoring his ancestors", since none of his had anything to do with the american civil war. he apparently just liked the whole anti-bellum thing, he picked it up on his own. aside from the fact that, as a sen., he's been pretty much of a non entity, he suffers from terminal foot-in-mouth disease, and always has. this takes time and attention away from actual important issues, and certainly doesn't help his constituents. is he alone in his stupidity in public? nope, not hardly. however, i don't live in another state, so i really don't care about their representative's idiocy, that's for them to deal with.

    Re: UVA Teammates: George Felix Allen A "Racist" (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Sep 25, 2006 at 09:05:00 AM EST
    PPJ wrote,
    the old race card trick
    Yeah, riiiii-ght. Well, since you are reverting to using clichés and buzzwords to defend Allen, how about if we who oppose racists like him do the same: If it walks like a (racist) duck and quacks like a (racist) duck . . . Or, since you seem to prefer card trick terminology: Lets just call a spade a spade (a racist a racist). You know, it never fails to surprise me how these right wingers who attempt to remain closet racists want to act all surprised when their past comes back to haunt them. I lived in the south almost my entire life and I've met hundreds of guys just like Allen: they are never overtly racist in public, but when they are in private company, with people that believe they can trust, their true colors show every time. Allen is a disgusting human being, not only for being a racist but for trying to lie about it. Digusting. And so are the people who are trying to defend him.

    Re: UVA Teammates: George Felix Allen A "Racist" (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Sep 25, 2006 at 12:03:22 PM EST
    Cpinva: Here ya go. Sen. Kennedy never tried to hide his past? Link to where he has talked about it since the morning after it happened. I will hand it to you. You know the difference between the conferderate flag and the battle flag of the army of northern va.

    Re: UVA Teammates: George Felix Allen A "Racist" (none / 0) (#9)
    by Molly Bloom on Mon Sep 25, 2006 at 12:35:16 PM EST
    Wile, followed your link on President Clinton. Hate appears to be on the page once and loathe, not all. From the page you linked to, here is the qoute by President Clinton's using the word hate in context:
    I wanted to be part of my country's defense and my country's service. Then I turned against the Vietnam war. I hated doing that. It was an anguishing thing for me.
    Is that all you got? As for Anonymous, not sure what you are driving at. I suspect neither are you. I am a life long southerner (went to college and law school in the South too- but am not "a good ole boy from LSU") and I find Allen's conduct offensive. I've never been to NY let alone lived in NY.

    must have mixed you up with Molly nyc, another poster. same difference-you will, in your leftish way, condescend to and lecture the southern voter as to their neanderthal social mores and your more enlightened ways. then, of course, you'll toss in that he's a jew, appealing to the inherent anti-semitism of the rubes. what offends you-the anonymously sourced article? the fact that 16 others cleared the guy and were willing to go on the record, yet weren't mentioned by the article? The more the left digs, the more desperate you look.

    Re: UVA Teammates: George Felix Allen A "Racist" (none / 0) (#11)
    by Molly Bloom on Mon Sep 25, 2006 at 04:35:33 PM EST
    Actually Anon at best I was condescending to JimakaPPJ. Unless you think asking whether or not Allen represents all voters in Virigina is condescending. My point and question were valid. Or do you think African American voters in Viriginia and their opinion don't count?

    Molly: Please reread the last paragraph.

    Re: UVA Teammates: George Felix Allen A "Racist" (none / 0) (#13)
    by Molly Bloom on Mon Sep 25, 2006 at 06:38:03 PM EST
    Ok Wile, I read the last paragraph again. If you use find to find loathe it won't find loathing. However, in reading that paragraph, The president did not say he loathed the military. He did indicate some people may have come to loathe the military, but it is a bit of stretch for you to say or conclude Bill Clinton said he personally loathed the military. Again, is this all you got? Here is the quote in full.
    And that is where I am now, writing to you because you have been good to me and have a right to know what I think and feel. I am writing too in the hope that my telling this one story will help you to understand more clearly how so many fine people have come to find themselves still loving their country but loathing the military, to which you and other good men have devoted years, lifetimes, of the best service you could give. To many of us, it is no longer clear what is service and what is disservice, or if it is clear, the conclusion is likely to be illegal. Forgive the length of this letter. There was much to say. There is still a lot to be said, but it can wait. Please say hello to Colonel Jones for me. Merry Christmas.


    Re: UVA Teammates: George Felix Allen A "Racist" (none / 0) (#14)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Sep 25, 2006 at 08:41:50 PM EST
    Molly quotes Clinton:
    Then I turned against the Vietnam war. I hated doing that. It was an anguishing thing for me.
    And also very convenient. And this:
    And that is where I am now, writing to you because you have been good to me and have a right to know what I think and feel.
    ...to understand more clearly how so many fine people have come to find themselves still loving their country but loathing the military,
    And you, of course, immediately buy into the fiction that this letter from Clinton, isn't about Clinton? Molly writes:
    I thought you were a self described social liberal JimakakaPPJ. As such I thought you would decry racism.
    What I decry is hypocrites pretending to defend racism... and if the shoe fits, dear Molly, wear it.. BTW - You do have several friends that are Jews, don't you?

    You do have several friends that are Jews, don't you?
    Again with the Judo card??

    Molly: LOL, so you don't actually read links before posting about them? Must be very busy person.

    Re: UVA Teammates: George Felix Allen A "Racist" (none / 0) (#17)
    by Molly Bloom on Tue Sep 26, 2006 at 05:06:05 AM EST
    JimakaPPJ Hypocrites defending racism? Shoe fits? If that was directed at me, lay off the LSD man. In no way shape or form can anything I wrote be called defending racsim or pretending to defend racism.
    BTW - You do have several friends that are Jews, don't you?
    Actually I do... will start with my spouse. Then there is me, I think I can said to be a friend of myself, don't you? Shall I go on? The only shoe that I see fitting anyone around here is the self described social liberal, who is defending racism and lashing out... BTW no-one has answered the question on the merits. Regardless of what you think the confederate flag stands for, it history includes use by the Klan and, of course, those who fought to enslave others as well as those who see it as a symbol of their ancestors patriotically fighting for their homeland. As a Virginia public servent who runs statewide, does Allen have a duty to represent all the people of Virigina or not? I'd hazard a guess that 90% of the African Americans who are citizens of the Commonwealth of Viriginia take the Klan- enslavement view over the ancestors patriotically defending their homeland view. Are they also Southerners? Do they not count in your view (or Allen's)? I'm beginning to think the point has been conceded, since most of y'all are attacking me instead of my point. Again, for the record, I am a Southerner, I've never been to NY (quick for extra points, name the Confederate General who was Jewish). And yes Wile I am busy. Don't know many successful lawyers who aren't. I skimmed the link quickly. After all clients don't pay me to read your stuff, so its on my own time. Then I used the find function on the browser to try and find what you were talking about. I freely admit I should have checked variations of loathe. Doesn't change the fact your quote didn't do what you said it did. Well got to go on the road today. Catch you on another interesting Talk Left blog post.

    Re: UVA Teammates: George Felix Allen A "Racist" (none / 0) (#18)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Sep 26, 2006 at 06:14:06 AM EST
    Molly - Glad to know you are friends with yourself. My comment was an obvious take on the "I have several black-gay-jewish" friends claim. You scored mucho style points with your comeback. But you don't touch the issue. What we have here is three people making claims. One identifies himself, two do not. And I have also heard, as Anon noted, that others challenged the characterization of the one person who identified himself. I believe when you make claims such as this, you step forward. And if you don't, then I distrust your motives and your information. So, given that, I find no partucular reason to see this as anything beyond just politics. i.e."The old race card trick." i.e. George Wallace, "I will stand in the door of the school..." And the fact that the Left has continually challenged blacks who are off the reserveration adds nothing to their resume. And that they have tolerated Senator Byrd proves they don't really care. Now, did Allen use the N word 34 years or so ago? Don't know. If he did, he shouldn't have. But if the Demos can accept that a former KKK member has reformed, even though he has used the N word in recent yars, then I see no reason for the attack. I find it hypocritical. As for your comment re the flag, I have made no claim of any special knowledge or studies about the Civil War. And as the son of a sharecropper I have no love for the landed gentry that held the South back for a hundred years. I do, however, note that the war is part of our history, and to deny is to try and hide an ugly fact. But to admit it does not mean that anyone now alive is responsible for it.

    Re: UVA Teammates: George Felix Allen A "Racist" (none / 0) (#19)
    by Molly Bloom on Tue Sep 26, 2006 at 11:15:02 AM EST
    JimakaPPj: I'll try and keep this simple for you. 1. Byrd recanted his former connection to the KKK. End of story. 2. Allen still keeps company with the CCC and keeps a confederate flag on his desk. Given several witnesses have come forward on his racism in the 70's, his current association with the CCC and his total inability (and apparantly yours) to understand that as a public official, he represents all Virginians. black and white and, keeping a confederate flag in his is an affront to half of his constitiency, questioning Allen's intelligence and/or racial views is reasonable. Couple that with his obvious discomfort with his Jewish heritage and again this is a valid topic. How you managed to equate someone questioning (reasonable under the circumstances) Allen's character with George Wallace standing in the school house door is laughable on its face. Wallace was tring to block the civil rights movement with a mostly symbolic gesture. Allen's questioners want to know where Allen stands- with Wallace or with King. It is not a symbolic question, given his views in the 70's and his current affiliation and disrespect for 1/2 of his constitutents. For someone with "no love for the landed gentry that held the South back for a hundred years" you do a good job carrying their water. Who do you think stands with Allen?

    Re: UVA Teammates: George Felix Allen A "Racist" (none / 0) (#20)
    by glanton on Tue Sep 26, 2006 at 02:48:18 PM EST
    Who do you think stands with Allen?
    Well, from the looks of this thread, Jim for one is firmly in his corner.

    I really hope that these accusations against George Allen are not true. I have a hard time believing that this man, whose father led black men onto the professional gridirons of Los Angeles and Washington, is a racist. At the very least, I hope that he has matured since his college days and would speak out against such odious behavior. For the record, I don't necessarily believe that everyone who possesses a Confederate flag is a racist. If that were the case, my younger brother, a huge fan of The Dukes of Hazzard, would've been cast out of our family a long time ago. (For those not familiar with me, I'm a black man.) But I do believe that anyone representing the greater good--that is, someone in a public position--should think long and hard before displaying something like that in his office.