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House Approves Military Commissions Bill

By Jeralyn, Section Terror Detainees
Posted on Wed Sep 27, 2006 at 04:10:55 PM EST
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It's over in the House. They voted today, 253-168, to pass Bush's military commission bill. It's expected to pass the Senate tomorrow.

The mostly party-line 253-168 vote in the Republican-run House came shortly after senators agreed to limit debate on their own nearly identical bill, all but assuring its passage on Thursday.

Republican leaders are hoping to work out differences and send Bush a final version before leaving town this weekend to campaign for the Nov. 7 congressional elections.

What a blow for due process and justice. Shame on all who voted for it.

The legislation would establish a military court system to prosecute terror suspects, a response to the Supreme Court ruling last June that Congress' blessing was necessary. While the bill would grant defendants more legal rights than they had under the administration's old system, it nevertheless would eliminate rights usually granted in civilian and military courts.

The measure also provides extensive definitions of war crimes such as torture, rape and biological experiments but gives Bush broad authority to decide which other techniques U.S. interrogators can legally use. The provisions are intended to protect CIA interrogators from being prosecuted for war crimes.

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    House Approves Military Commissions Bill | 13 comments (13 topical)
    Re: House Approves Military Commissions Bill (none / 0) (#1)
    by scribe on Wed Sep 27, 2006 at 04:48:30 PM EST
    I posted earlier, in another thread, the names of the 34 Democrats who voted "for" and the 7 Democrats who did not vote. From the looks of it, all the Democrats who voted "for" are either from reddish districts, or, as in the case of Texas' Cuellar, are Republicans in Democrat clothing. That's no excuse. Nor, for that matter, is there any excuse to be found in the fact that, even if all 41 Democrats who did not vote against had done so, the bill still would have passed. The long and short of it is, they voted for torture. The blood is on their hands. But, until the Democrats take control, it's necessary to keep these folks in the fold. They can be dealt with later - after the election.

    Re: House Approves Military Commissions Bill (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Sep 27, 2006 at 08:50:18 PM EST
    I also left my thoughts on another posting but, I feel this needs to be explored. It seems the people who are the most behind torture are the same people who probably had relatives in the KKK at one time. It seems the same personality types that are so into torture and lumping all muslims in with the they all want to kill us excuse are the same as the types who enjoyed, particpated or condoned the torture and murdering of African Americans. The same kind that felt unequality was the American way and anyone who felt othrewise were not true patriots. They wore thier patriotism on thier sleeves but, did not know our history or the meaning of the words in the constitution or Bill of Rights. The same who felt understanding rather than beating was for sissies. Now they have someone to focus thier racism on and to enjoy the pain of thru proxy. These are the people that congress is pandering to and willing to trash our legacy and history and reputation for.

    Re: House Approves Military Commissions Bill (none / 0) (#3)
    by Byron Wayne on Wed Sep 27, 2006 at 08:50:18 PM EST
    If this bill makes it into law, how would one go about trying everyone who passed it with crimes against humanity and or war crimes.

    Re: House Approves Military Commissions Bill (none / 0) (#4)
    by Andreas on Wed Sep 27, 2006 at 09:33:57 PM EST
    @Byron: you should consider supporting the election campaign of the Socialist Equality Party:
    Our campaign demands that all those responsible for the illegal and unprovoked invasion of Iraq be compelled to face trial before a war crimes tribunal, and that the US government compensate the Iraqi people for the destruction and suffering it has caused, as well as the families of American soldiers killed in the war and the men and women who have been wounded, both mentally and physically. ... The SEP fights for a socialist foreign policy, based on international working class solidarity. This includes the immediate closure of military bases all over the world; the abolition of the CIA and other organizations that have sponsored coups and meddle in the affairs of other countries; and the massive expansion of aid to countries that have been devastated by American military intervention and corporate exploitation. The aim is to create conditions of genuine worldwide social equality. The SEP calls for the abolition of the so-called "Department of Defense," and with it the standing army, which poses a constant threat to democratic rights. ... The Socialist Equality Party demands the revocation of the Patriot Act, the dismantling of the Department of Homeland Security, the abolition of the Pentagon's Northern Command (the military command center set up in 2002 to oversee the United States), the closure of the Guantánamo concentration camp and all similar facilities, and an end to torture, renditions and similar atrocities committed in the name of the American people.
    For a socialist alternative in the 2006 US elections Statement of the Socialist Equality Party, 28 September 2006

    Re: House Approves Military Commissions Bill (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Sep 27, 2006 at 11:35:45 PM EST
    Doesn't this legislation give BushCo a retroactive get out jail free card as well with a stealth pardon related to the War Crimes Act?

    Re: House Approves Military Commissions Bill (none / 0) (#7)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Sep 28, 2006 at 06:35:28 AM EST
    et al - I again offer you the opportunity to define: What is the "torture" you refer to. And I will add, what are your specific reaons for opposing tribunals versus standard US justice system trials. And I will add, since the "get out of jail" card you refer to is, as I understand it, protection for those are questioning the prisoners, why do you oppose it, since you won't define what "law" they are breaing?

    Re: House Approves Military Commissions Bill (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Sep 28, 2006 at 07:31:36 AM EST
    Remember the huge outcry about the words "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance? Obviously God has nothing to do with the Congress. The other words that are really meaningless in the Pledge now are ,"With liberty and justice for all". Talk about a hollow pledge.

    Re: House Approves Military Commissions Bill (none / 0) (#8)
    by marty on Thu Sep 28, 2006 at 09:49:42 AM EST
    "Doesn't this legislation give BushCo a retroactive get out jail free card as well with a stealth pardon related to the War Crimes Act?" Exactly.....and that was the entire point. Shame, utter shame on Democrats. If you're not willing to stand against this, why should I bother to get out and vote for you? Yesterday, it was reported that a leading Dem (I forget who)said they wanted "no daylight between them and Republicans on this" so it couldn't be used against them as a political weapon? Where have they been for the last several years?????? They Repubs are ALREADY using it against you, and will no matter what you do. I'm staying home in November...this was the last straw for me.

    Re: House Approves Military Commissions Bill (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Sep 28, 2006 at 09:49:42 AM EST
    Are the defendant/convicted "bad apples" from Abu Gharib chomping at the bit for this retroactive immunity? Or is there a "bad apple" exception?

    Re: House Approves Military Commissions Bill (none / 0) (#11)
    by Edger on Thu Sep 28, 2006 at 09:49:42 AM EST
    Torture is the infliction of severe physical or psychological pain or grief as an expression of cruelty, a means of intimidation, deterrent, revenge or punishment, or as a tool for the extraction of information or confessions. Torture is almost universally considered to be an extreme violation of human rights, as stated by the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Signatories of the Third Geneva Convention and Fourth Geneva Convention agree not to torture protected persons (enemy civilians and POWs) in armed conflicts, and signatories of the UN Convention Against Torture agree not to intentionally inflict severe pain or suffering on anyone, to obtain information or a confession, to punish them, or to coerce them or a third person...
    That is the definition of torture posted on "Jurist Legal News and Research" from the University of Pittsburgh School of Law In reality though, no one honest with themselves or not trying to deceive or obfuscate needs to ask what torture is. If you ask, you already know. If you claim you don't know you're lying to yourself, and fooling no one else. Torture is anything done to another person that people try to excuse themselves for by claiming that "this is not torture - we don't torture".

    Re: House Approves Military Commissions Bill (none / 0) (#12)
    by Sailor on Thu Sep 28, 2006 at 12:15:20 PM EST
    Humiliation and secret detention are also prohibited. I wonder if our resident fan of torture need those defined for him also.

    Re: House Approves Military Commissions Bill (none / 0) (#6)
    by kdog on Thu Sep 28, 2006 at 03:40:50 PM EST
    What a blow for due process and justice. Shame on all who voted for it.
    Indeed...unfortunately our representation has no shame. Maybe on their death beds the shame will come...but then it will be to late. America has cancer.

    Re: House Approves Military Commissions Bill (none / 0) (#13)
    by kdog on Fri Sep 29, 2006 at 09:31:05 AM EST
    Talk about a hollow pledge.
    I hear that. It should be revised to "Liberty and Justice for US citizens only, unless accused of 'terrorism', other restrictions may apply, void where prohibited."

    House Approves Military Commissions Bill | 13 comments (13 topical)