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GOP Blames The Troops For Iraq Failures

How about an apology for this?

House Majority Leader John Boehner: Wolf, I understand that, but let's not blame what's happening in Iraq on Rumsfeld.

Wolf Blitzer: But he's in charge of the military.

House Majority Leader John Boehner: But the fact is the generals on the ground are in charge and he works closely with them and the president.

Now about that apology to our troops:

Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid released the following statement on House Majority Leader John Boehner's decision to blame the troops for Republican failures in Iraq. "John Boehner ought to be ashamed. He's blaming our troops for failures in Iraq. If he wants to cast blame, he can start by looking in the mirror because he and his Congressional Republican colleagues have rubberstamped the Bush Administration's failed policy for nearly four years. Our troops in Iraq have performed bravely. It's political leaders like Congressman Boehner and Donald Rumsfeld, who have failed. I expect President Bush and Congressional Republicans, who demanded John Kerry apologize, hold their own party's majority leader to a much higher standard. There's no spinning his disparaging comments. He made them. He needs to apologize."
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    THE Mirror. (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Edger on Wed Nov 01, 2006 at 08:22:19 PM EST
    Bush just ordered the military to abandon one of its own to terrists.

    Kerry misspeaks himslf and they're all over him like flies on sh*t claiming he's disrespecting troops.

    Bush abandons a US Soldier to probable death, and they fall all over themselves supporting him.

    F*CK.

    Cowards (none / 0) (#1)
    by Al on Wed Nov 01, 2006 at 07:55:51 PM EST
    Cowards.

    Mirrors?? (none / 0) (#2)
    by Edger on Wed Nov 01, 2006 at 08:08:24 PM EST
    If he wants to cast blame, he can start by looking in the mirror because he and his Congressional Republican colleagues have rubberstamped the Bush Administration's failed policy for nearly four years.

    The only thing these guys ever use a mirror for is to fall right through the damn thing.

    The reality is too awful to contemplate for them. The responsibility and the accountability too unbearable.

    Close, but.... (none / 0) (#3)
    by roy on Wed Nov 01, 2006 at 08:13:21 PM EST
    Big Tent, I think you understand the difference between criticizing the generals and criticizing the rank-and-file soldiers.  One's ordinary buck-passing, the other offends common decency.

    And usually only the latter group is called the "troops", but now I'm nit-picking.

    Sure (none / 0) (#28)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 11:48:07 AM EST
    Certainly that is as understandable as the fact that Kerry botched a joke.

    Parent
    Agreed (none / 0) (#30)
    by roy on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 11:57:39 AM EST
    I had something to say about "stooping to their level", but I think you already understand that, too.

    Parent
    Marquis of Queensbury (none / 0) (#33)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 12:42:24 PM EST
    has gotten his butt kicked in politics for a long time.

    Parent
    Considering the season, (none / 0) (#5)
    by Che's Lounge on Wed Nov 01, 2006 at 09:30:03 PM EST
     it would not be innacurate to say if these people looked in a mirror they would see nothing.

    To look at events in Iraq and then read Bush's glowing evaluations of Rumsfeld and Cheney, I can only conclude one of two things:

    1. This is exactly what they wanted to happen, or

    2. Bush is not in touch with reality.


    1+ 2 = (none / 0) (#6)
    by Edger on Wed Nov 01, 2006 at 09:40:40 PM EST
    1 + 2 = 3: Psychopathy

    Re: (none / 0) (#7)
    by Deconstructionist on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 07:53:29 AM EST
    BTD:

      You say one intelligent thing in all of your relentless posts and then you can't stick to your own point.

      You were right the first time-- "just stop it" and get the focus off Kerry. Obviously, achieving that is not helped by pathetically desperate attempts to draw parallels from things said by Republicans.

      Attempting to deflect criticism from Rumsfield by making the point the military leaders have some input is lame but it no way is a criticism of the "troops." If you want to attack the defense of Rumsfield have at it but use your head and don't tie it into the Kerry situation.

      All you do with such silly contortions is keep the focus from shifting back to the Administration .

    Such silly contortions (none / 0) (#8)
    by Edger on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 08:28:29 AM EST
    Decon, do you actually read the posts and the comments, and purposely go out of your way to miss the point? Or is missing the point something you just can't help?

    Parent
    I miss YOUR point (none / 0) (#9)
    by Deconstructionist on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 08:32:49 AM EST
      Do you care to explain what it might be?

    Re: I miss YOUR point (none / 0) (#10)
    by Edger on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 08:51:50 AM EST
    Ah, that's better. You just made it for me, and answered my questions at the same time.

    Thanks.

    Re: (none / 0) (#11)
    by Deconstructionist on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 09:07:37 AM EST
      Care to share your conclusions with anyone else? Inscrutable blathering makes no point.

      My point in response to the post should be obvious to anyone with a pulse. BTD's lame attempt to equate Bohner's comment with Kerry's by saying he should be required to  "apologize" the way Kerry was coerced into apologizing for his obviously won't work and serves only to perpetuate the fuss over Kerry's words.

      Are you suggesting that you failed to grasp BTD's obvious intent? Are you suggesting you did grasp it but agree with him that this is a smart tactic? Or,  are you just inapable of coherent expression?

    THIS is a smart tactic? (none / 0) (#12)
    by Edger on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 09:18:45 AM EST
    You don't need my help. You're doing your best to help bury the republicans on your own.

    As I said: Thanks. You're a good man, decon, and I have faith in you.

    You'll figure out the point. You're not dumb. You don't really need a moonbat to explain it to you, do you?  

    Or do you?

    you are another example.. (none / 0) (#13)
    by Deconstructionist on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 09:37:41 AM EST
     of why our Party is in such a sorry state. I'm a Democrat, you moron! Yet, simply because, I refuse to endorse rabid stupidity solely because it comes from the mouth  (keyboard) of other Democrats you and your childish brethren attack.

       That's why I cited Pogo the other day: "I have seen the enemy and he is us."

      This narrow-minded, intolerant attempt to exclude anyone who doesn't march lockstep with YOUR narrow vision of what this Party, and yes this country, should be is a primary reason we have been so unsuccessful.

       People working for success understand that requires building broad coalitions, cooperating, compromising and yes, sometimes putting personal feelings second to the greater good.

      People like you and BTD simply drive most people in the other direction. Very few people want arrogant, immature zealots anywhere near power.

    Moron? (none / 0) (#14)
    by Edger on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 10:24:01 AM EST
    Moron?

    "I have seen the enemy and he is us."

    Then why are you exerting so much effort to keep the focus on Kerry?

    "you moron!"... is a pretty "childish brethren attack.", btw. It seems the only thing you're "deconstructing here" is yourself, unfortunately.

    Keep digging. You'll figure out the point yet.

    Parent

    being aggressive (none / 0) (#15)
    by Deconstructionist on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 10:27:48 AM EST
     in countering fools on a message board  may display poor priorities and a lack of patience, but it doesn't make you any less of a fool.

    Moron? (none / 0) (#16)
    by Edger on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 10:28:23 AM EST
    BTW, I agree with you. You're abolutely right:

    ...you moron! Very few people want arrogant, immature zealots anywhere near power.

    I'd also point out (none / 0) (#17)
    by Deconstructionist on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 10:31:23 AM EST
      That I merely respond Under posts. I'm not responsible for the SEVEN [7] separate threads started by the bloggers in control of this site.

      But, I'm the one fixating on this? Get a clue, son.

     

    THE POINT.... (none / 0) (#18)
    by Edger on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 10:32:13 AM EST
    ...IS THIS:

    Bush just ordered the military to abandon one of its own to terrists.

    Why anyone needs this explained is beyond me.

    Then why pray tell... (none / 0) (#19)
    by Deconstructionist on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 10:38:35 AM EST
     is it not even obliquely alluded to in BTD's post which initiated this thread?

      It seems a pretty poor tactic  not even to bring up the subject about which you claim to be making a point. but, I guyes that's just me, because I don't share your and BTD's ability to make points so well.

     

    Then help MAKE the point... (none / 0) (#20)
    by Edger on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 10:43:41 AM EST
    ...instead of doing everything you can do to move the focus where the rethugs want it moved to, and wasting your time endelessly repeating what you didn't like about Big Tents post which also takes the focus away from the psychos in the WH.

    I'm done with you. I have real work to do.

    Well (none / 0) (#21)
    by Deconstructionist on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 10:51:08 AM EST
      I post in numerous in numerous threads on a broad array of topic that happen to pique my interest. I don't make the decisions which lead to SEVEN threads being started  related to Kerry and the fallout.

       I also don't think the real work is pointing out what's wrong with the Republicans. That's pretty self-evident. The real work is making more things right about us and less of you and BTD and your ilk would be a huge step in that direction.

      Arguing that WE need to change the way WE behave and reevaluate OUR positions and approaches may not be near as much fun than endlessly repeating "Rethugs" etc.,  and thinking ourselves clever but it might actually lead to bit more success.

    Well now... (none / 0) (#22)
    by Edger on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 10:59:46 AM EST
    I rather doubt after your performance here that you are a "democrat" anymore than other trolls here are "social liberal'. You talk and act more like a republican troll.

    Parent
    Uh oh (none / 0) (#34)
    by Patrick on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 12:51:22 PM EST
    Arguing that WE need to change the way WE behave and reevaluate OUR positions and approaches may not be near as much fun than endlessly repeating "Rethugs" etc

    I have to say if either party actually caught on to that idea, the other would be done for.  

    Parent

    I have to say... (again, sigh) (none / 0) (#35)
    by Edger on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 01:23:14 PM EST
    There is is an old proverb in marketing phrased as a question: "If I'm not getting the results I want to get, what am I doing to get the results I'm getting?"

    It's not a question I can see this administration or the gop in it's current state asking themselves. Democrats, yes. GOP? I doubt it.

    It has to do with taking responsibility and being accountable, you know?

    Parent

    Yes I do know (none / 0) (#36)
    by Patrick on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 01:52:03 PM EST
    I also know that politicians have refined the act of dodging responsibility to an art form.  So, I do not see the D's doing that any time in the near future.  Best of luck to your party and your soon to be unfullfilled expectations.  

    Parent
    Re: expectations.... (none / 0) (#40)
    by Edger on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 03:40:23 PM EST
    Thanks, Patrick.

    What will be on Tuesday will be.

    But you know, after all is said and done, somehow I have a hard time seeing tens of thousands of US soldiers maimed or killed for nothing, and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis killed, as an "art form".

    You really got me stumped on that, I'll admit.

    Parent

    Figure of speech (none / 0) (#41)
    by Patrick on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 03:45:50 PM EST
    But I guess you already knew that.  

    Yes, I'll be glad when Tuesday has come and gone, regardless of the results, because even in my limited experience, not much changes except names and the "D" or "R" next to them.  Cynical?  Perhaps.  

    Parent

    Re: already knew that (none / 0) (#42)
    by Edger on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 03:56:53 PM EST
    Yes, I did.

    I know how you feel, my experience has been the same. Except... this time there is something else happening, I think.

    Peace.

    Parent

    Cheers (none / 0) (#43)
    by Patrick on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 04:02:39 PM EST
    Here's hoping something is better than nothing.  

    Parent
    More of exactly what i assailling... (none / 0) (#23)
    by Deconstructionist on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 11:11:20 AM EST
      This extreme narrow-minded, intolerant position that anyone who does not simply parrot what you want to hear is therefore a "Republican troll" is silly, immature, and extremely counter-productive. It's one of the primary reasons many moderate Democrats and independents choose to either not vote or vote for Republicans.

      If you look at the electoral map, it should be obvious that WE CANNOT WIN without getting the vast majority of moderate Democrats and an often  very large plurality of independents to vote our way.

       Those who would rather WIN and work for incremental progress rather than LOSE and watch things drift further in the wrong direction despair at how much harder loudmouth screamers espousing the most extreme positions on everything and then seeking to ostracize all who actually have the temerity to think for themselves and have different opinions do get very frustrated.

       If everyone who would find find you an offensive, immature, intolerant, zealot was in fact a "Republican troll" I daresay about 90% of the American electorate would be Republican trolls.

       

    GOP Blames The Troops For Iraq Failures (none / 0) (#24)
    by Edger on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 11:30:19 AM EST
    ... is the topic of this thread. The fact that the administration has moved beyond just blaming the troops to actively and wilfully abandoning them to their deaths is a furtherance of the points Big Tent made.

    Neither Big Tents points nor mine seem to concern you in any way at all. You repeatedly and continually try to divert away from those points.

    You're more interested in finding fault with the democrats and with Big Tent and with me personally with ad hom's.

    I'd say that is trolling, and attempted thread hijacking. If you want to honestly talk about ways to improve democratic messages rather than just criticize democrats, do it in a thread where that IS the topic. But I don't think you want to "talk about ways to improve" since all you've done is criticize.

    I'd say it's been fun, but it hasn't. It has been educational though.

    Have a nice day...

    Parent

    It's not the point of the thread... (none / 0) (#25)
    by Deconstructionist on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 11:41:58 AM EST
      it's the intellectually dishonest caption given to a ridiculous post which ineptly tries to say that because Kerry had to apologize for his comments a GOP leader should have to apologize for his.

      Even if Boehner's comments had not been deliberately misrepresented as criticizing "the troops" when they inarguably do no such thing but rather blame certain generals in the military command, it would be a stupid post that in no way would serve to deflect attention from Kerry which one would have to be a world-class idiot not to recogniaze as the "point."

     

    It's not the point of the thread... (none / 0) (#26)
    by Edger on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 11:44:39 AM EST
    I see that. Kerry is where you want the focus, obviously. You define (and deconstruct) yourself...

    Parent
    Enough -who cares? (none / 0) (#27)
    by Peaches on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 11:47:14 AM EST
    I don't mean any offense to Edger, because I enjoy his comments, but I agree with Decons sentiments here.

    This story has legs becasue we keep it going. The irrelevance is obvious. This is what PPJ is paid for. As long as you keep responding to him and defending Kerry and trying to show the hypocracy of the GOP, Rove and Bush, the longer the story hangs around. As long as their is a discussion going and the GOP thinks people can come to TL and here both sides with PPJ and others representing the opposing side, they hope the visiteres will think the story is actually important and that Kerry really might have meant what he said.

    This is my first comment on it and I echo the "just stop it" call. It doesn't deserve bringing up anymore. It doesn't need answering. The war in Iraq is the issue and thats it.

    offense? (none / 0) (#32)
    by Edger on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 12:03:53 PM EST
    And none taken, Peaches. I got sucked into a pointless exchange. Not the first time, and probably not the last. ;-)

    The war in Iraq is the issue...


    Parent
    I have no idea (none / 0) (#29)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 11:50:25 AM EST
    what Decon is talking about really.

    But other than hate filled invective towards me, I have not seen much of anything that I understand from him.

    I have no dialogue with him because of this.

    I am with Peaches. Just ignore him.

    Re: I have no idea (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by Edger on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 12:00:28 PM EST
    Me neither. I tried. Sigh... But I agree with you. And I do think he's trolling.

    Parent
    Decon is not a troll (none / 0) (#38)
    by Peaches on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 02:02:22 PM EST
    Hes a contrarion. As I fellow contrarion, I salute him.

    I am not going to speak for him, but I do wish to say that I did not advocate we ignore decon, I advocated that we ignore Jim, and all the other pundits who are trying to make the Kerry thing into a real story. This, btw, is exactly what I read Decon to be saying.

    BTD, you said we should just stop it and you say it is a distraction, yet you continue to start threads keeping the story alive. I know you are exposing the hypocrisy of the GOP, but this is what they want you to do. Kind of like that LBJ story where he says "I know he didn't do it, I just want to hear the bastard deny it."

    Parent

    This is a different story (none / 0) (#44)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 04:41:16 PM EST
    Re: Decon is not a troll (none / 0) (#45)
    by Edger on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 05:07:06 PM EST
    Peaches, you've got me thinking and trying to see the conversation I had with him from that persepective, if even just as a thought experiment.

    I don't agree with you... yet... and don't know yet whether I can, but I will try to reread the thread with fresh eyes after work this evening. I'll retract the "troll" accusation if I end up agreeing with you. The "moron" comment I'll shrug off and leave for Decon to think about. I've been called, and I've been, worse. ;-)

    I do know that some things I said could have been said in a different tone.

    Thanks for suggesting an alternative viewpoint.

    Parent

    Wow. I just tuned in to this thread... (none / 0) (#37)
    by Bill Arnett on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 01:58:41 PM EST
    ...and the attempts of some to rag on Kerry and criticize democrats in general is amazing...so I'll be brief:

    Kerry blows a joke, that his audience got, and rethugs and trolls everywhere get their panties in such a bunch you'd think Kerry had lied us into that Iraqi war, personally killed thousands and wounded thousands more, personally ordered the killing hundreds of thousands of innocent iraqi men, women and children, willfully bankrupted us while doing it, and then lied continuously about his motives and how much trouble we are in losing TWO WARS simultaneously...oh...wait. That was that other fella.

    Nice job, Mr. boosh. As the commander-in-chief THAT is where the buck rightfully should stop, the public has caught onto the lies of bush and his republican guard, and the General (Clark) is 100% right that it is the waging and conduct of this war that needs to be questioned, not the words of any non-candidate not running for office.

    Iraq belongs to the bush and his republican guard; they broke it, they bought it, they own it, and whatever desperate efforts they make to disassociate themselves from it are pitiable, pitiful, puerile, and not being believed by anyone.

    This has been the same as when bush hit the road for his Soc. Sec. overhaul - the more he talked, the less people believed him, and the more his poll ratings dropped.

    In the last two weeks of trying to slam dems for his failings, bush's credibility on Iraq has plummeted, now down to 29% with a whopping 80% of the electorate believing that he is either lying or hiding the truth. But if they WANT to continue destroying their credibility, who am I to stand in their way?

    Well, I may not have been brief, ultimately, but this is my comment and I stand by it.

    Mr. boosh... (none / 0) (#39)
    by desertswine on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 03:10:28 PM EST
    Nice job, Mr. boosh.

    I believe that should be Mr. booshwa.

    Parent