Bush Studies But Flunks the Test

By TChris, Section War In Iraq
Posted on Fri Nov 17, 2006 at 10:50:57 AM EST
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Having avoided fighting in Vietnam, President Bush is belatedly "reading and studying" about the country. The lesson to be learned from the Vietnam war is simple: the United States should not wage war against a country that has not attacked, and poses no credible threat to the security of, the United States or its significant allies. Leave it to the president to learn the wrong lesson:

[A]sked on arrival in Vietnam for an economic summit whether this country holds any lessons for the debate over Iraq, the President answered: "Yes. One lesson is, is that we tend to want there to be instant success in the world, and the task in Iraq is going to take a while."

In other words, the lesson Bush learned from the Vietman war is: stay the course. Brilliant. All those years of staying the course in Vietman worked so well.

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Bush Studies But Flunks the Test | 14 comments (14 topical)

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the lesson of history (4.50 / 2) (#14)
by Woody Y on Sat Nov 18, 2006 at 07:09:33 PM EST

Bush's statements, yesterday concerning what he had learned from the Vietnam war left me spluttering and thinking about the nature of `Folly'.. First, I would like to recommend a great book by
the great American historian Barbara Tuchman, `The March of Folly: From Troy to Vietnam'. In this book Tuchman sets out what constitutes true Folly as committed by a nation, using the fall of Troy in the Homer's Iliad as example. She saw Folly as having four components:

The act must be one of choice , something not closely bound to the national interest. In her first example, the Trojans had no pressing need to bring that big wooden horse inside the gates of the city.
The nation must have been clearly warned against this action.

In the example, Cassandra's warning, "Beware of Greeks bearing gifts" falls on deaf ears.

The act must be done without thought of any of it's consequences. In the example, `Why would you want a big Greek horse inside the walls of your city, in the first place"?
Having committed the act, a nation must do something to make the possible negative consequences much worse. In the example, after bringing the Trojan horse inside the gates the army of Troy sets out to get dead drunk.

In her book Tuchman sets out about half a dozen historical examples of true national `Folly' ending with Vietnam. There is no clearer textbook example Folly in recent history than Iraq. That it was a war of choice and that all warnings against it were ignored is obvious, as is the lack of any consideration of consequences .The disbanding of the Iraqi army and `debaathification of the civil government are strong contenders for point #4 but there are of course others....

The Greeks had a word for the real lesson of all this, `Hubris'. Arrogant leaders never learn from their mistakes and nations that willfully believe they will, whether in Nixon's `Secret Plan for Peace in Vietnam', or Bush's `New Course in Iraq' are bound for tragedy.

Brilliant. (none / 0) (#1)
by Edger on Fri Nov 17, 2006 at 10:58:35 AM EST

He's about as smart as a fire hydrant.

Nothing goes in. Everything bounces off.

It's amazing that the coward... (none / 0) (#2)
by Bill Arnett on Fri Nov 17, 2006 at 11:09:47 AM EST

...even went to Vietnam. And, of course, you can ALWAYS depend on bush to draw the wrong conclusions and then form his horrible policies based on those false assumptions.

Mornin', everybody.

: Not so amazing (none / 0) (#13)
by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Nov 18, 2006 at 01:25:53 PM EST

It would have been amazing if him and Cheney had gone there 40 years ago when the bullets were flying. Now he's just another businessman on a junket to look for ways to make him and his buddies some money. Same as Clinton actually (it's also amazing that people will argue that there's a significant difference between the two).

Yogi Berra for President... (none / 0) (#3)
by desertswine on Fri Nov 17, 2006 at 11:13:19 AM EST

"We'll succeed," Bush added, "unless we quit."

I'm sure (none / 0) (#4)
by aw on Fri Nov 17, 2006 at 11:44:42 AM EST

the Vietnamese appreciated the lesson, too.

Vietnam Lessons (none / 0) (#5)
by NYBlue on Fri Nov 17, 2006 at 12:47:28 PM EST

Don't fight unless you (1) know what you are fighting for (have an objective or two), (2) know it is justified (have been attacked, stopping genocide, etc.), (3) are prepared to commit the resources to meet the objectives of the war ("win") and (4) are prepared to adjust tactics and strategy in order to achieve no. 3.

We can argue all day about 2 but Bush and the Congress need to agree on 1 and 3 so that the commanders in the military can develop an appropriate no. 4. If those things aren't done, the lessons of Vietnam have not been learned and everyone should just pack up and go home.

People of arrogance, pride, and a... (none / 0) (#6)
by Bill Arnett on Fri Nov 17, 2006 at 12:53:01 PM EST

...belief in their own infallibility "create their own reality" and thus do not learn from either history or even their own mistakes.


The Handmaid's Tale... (4.00 / 1) (#7)
by desertswine on Fri Nov 17, 2006 at 02:25:43 PM EST

He is demonstarating, to me, his mastery of the world. He's breaking the rules, under their noses, thumbing his nose at them, getting away with it. Perhaps he's reached that state of intoxication which power is said to inspire, the state in which you believe you are indispensable and can therefore do anything, absolutely anything you feel like, anything at all.
- Offred


: Power Corrupts (none / 0) (#8)
by NYBlue on Fri Nov 17, 2006 at 03:06:13 PM EST

Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. That is why we have separation of powers and checks and balances. Let's see if the constitution works now that the power in Washington is split or if the corruption of power will just spread out in slightly different directions. I fear it will be the latter.

i thought the lesson he learned....... (none / 0) (#9)
by cpinva on Fri Nov 17, 2006 at 05:04:49 PM EST

was that it helps to have a an influential father, if you want to stay out of harm's way.

i knew this would happen, if i decided to not major in history. along comes the single most bumbling president in U.S. history, and here i am an accountant!

Why (none / 0) (#10)
by Che's Lounge on Fri Nov 17, 2006 at 07:04:58 PM EST

did he go there? They're commies fer crissake!

Commies with a cheap labor pool.

We Will Retake Saigon (none / 0) (#11)
by john horse on Fri Nov 17, 2006 at 07:25:41 PM EST

Oh if only we stayed the course in Vietnam. Well its not too late. We aren't beat yet.
I present to you for your download pleasure, "We Will Retake Saigon" (first song on this link). Maybe after we lose the war in Iraq there might be a sequel to this song (We Will Retake Baghdad??)

Is our President Learning? (none / 0) (#12)
by Sailor on Sat Nov 18, 2006 at 12:34:40 PM EST

To cion Atrios; Simple answers to simple questions: No.

Bush: Vietnam holds lesson
Asked what lessons the war in Vietnam offered for the war in Iraq, Bush's response suggested a need for patience and determination--a nod toward the U.S. decision to abandon Vietnam after a protracted and unsuccessful war there.
"We'll succeed unless we quit," Bush said.

The actual lesson to be learned from Vietnam is to not start wars on a lie, whether the lie is about the Tonkin Gulf or Weapons of Mass Destruction.