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"That's Not What I Asked"

Greg Sargent catches George Will being a dishonest boor:

Will omitted the pissy and rude quote spoken by the President which originally provoked Webb. Will cut out the line from the President where he said: "That's not what I asked you." In Will's recounting, that instead became a sign of Bush's parental solicitiousness: "The president again asked `How's your boy?'" Will's change completely alters the tenor of the conversation from one in which Bush was rude to Webb, which is what the Post's original account suggested, to one in which Webb was inexplicably rude to the President, which is how Will wanted to represent what happened.

Will Will correct himself and apologize to Webb? Of course not. Dishonest boors never do.

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    It's worse than that (5.00 / 3) (#1)
    by scribe on Thu Nov 30, 2006 at 09:31:06 AM EST
    Let's not forget this, too.

    Bushie, when he went on this little chops-busting exercise, was aware that about a week or two prior, Webb the Younger was on operations in an armored vehicle next to another armored vehicle which was attacked by an explosive device.  Three Marines in that second vehicle were killed.

    Webb's son probably had those KIA marines in his platoon.  If they were in his platoon, that meant Webb's son was on the scene when those close to him were killed.  Even if they were not in his platoon, they were surely in his company and known to him and the other members of his platoon, and he had to deal with not only his own emotions, but also the emotions of his fellow soldiers.

    Even though, as a lance corporal, he didn't have to write one of those letters to the dead Marines' families, not having to might have been worse.  If you've ever had to write one of those letters, nothing further need be said about how hard it is, though I'm told there is a certain expiation which can come from the writing.  Young Webb didn't get that.  (I never did have to write one, though one of my soldiers was killed in an on-duty accident a few weeks after another lieutenant took over my platoon.  That was hard enough.)  If you haven't had to write one of those letters, you might only get the outlines of just how massively disrespectful Bushie's comment was, but you surely get that it was.

    So, the dishonest boor was not only breaking chops about Webb's son being in Iraq.  He was also dishonoring dead Marines.  But, most importantly Bushie was taunting Webb about not only that his son was deeply in harm's way, but also with Bushie's power to put Webb' son further in harm's way (and Bushie's own kin not being there).

    If you ever wondered what it was like to live under the government of, say, Caligula, well, watch this government in action.

    Here's the darned link I was looking for (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by scribe on Thu Nov 30, 2006 at 11:18:27 AM EST
    which lays out the sordid details.  And, some pithy commentary, here.  From the first link, NotLarrySabato:

    I've gotten a tip on the background to this confrontation, and it appears that Webb may have under reacted.

    As President Bush is well aware, a couple of weeks before this dinner the tank riding next to Jimmy's in Iraq was under fire and three marines died.

    My sources are telling me that the way President Bush approached Webb with his tone, it appeared he was asking the question of how Jimmy was doing in a mocking manner, while he was certainly aware of the tragedy that had hit his unit a few weeks earlier

    (Emphasis in original)

    Caligula, or someone similar who glories in causing pain to others and revels in it.  Momma Babs did a fine job warping this piece of crap.

    Parent

    Scribe, (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by glanton on Thu Nov 30, 2006 at 09:53:15 AM EST
    Exactly.  Very well said.

    Another thing that stands out about this is that if Webb really believes as he has consistently argued, that this Bush started this war for light and transient reasons, all without putting forward a graspable definition of "winning"--well, if he believes all that, then it would be the height of disingenuity to perform social niceties with the man.  

    Add Webb's supposedly firm belief that Bush's domestic policies tangibly threaten the poor, and make light of all our civil liberties--and then you get a man who has no business whatever answering Bush's question in any way other than how he did.

    Decent people don't exchange pleasantries with those who play games with human lives. "Respecting the Office" is less important, by far, than respecting human life and civil liberties.

    Re: Glanton & Scribe (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Kitt on Thu Nov 30, 2006 at 10:15:43 AM EST
    You both got it squarely.

    Add Webb's supposedly firm belief that Bush's domestic policies tangibly threaten the poor, and make light of all our civil liberties--and then you get a man who has no business whatever answering Bush's question in any way other than how he did.

    Decent people don't exchange pleasantries with those who play games with human lives. "Respecting the Office" is less important, by far, than respecting human life and civil liberties.

    Webb has spoken to this ("Bush's domestic policies tangibly threaten the poor, and make light of all our civil liberties") a number of times just since being elected, the last time being on Lou Dobbs' show that I saw. Webb has also said something along the line of he's not interested in having his picture taken Bush or to have such hanging on his wall. I'm not so inclined either and I don't have anyone serving in Iraq. To be perfectly honest, I don't know that I would even shake the president's hand, I find him, his administration and their policies so revolting.

    Parent

    Glanton (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by scribe on Thu Nov 30, 2006 at 11:31:09 AM EST
    You said something I hadn't really wanted to address (or hadn't thought about):  The blood on Bushie's hands and those who bring themselves to shake his.

    It brings to mind a vignette from one of Manchester's biographies of Churchill (I'll summarize):

    As a young man in his early 20s, Churchill was at some formal function when one of the people associated with the Jameson Raid trial was introduced to him.  Rather than accepting the offered handshake, Churchill turned away saying "blood, blood", in reference to blood on that person's hands.

    Why is that relevant?  Because it shows that strength of conviction and character sometimes require refusing social graces, even to one of greater status, when that other has so far transgressed the bounds of civilized society (or law) as to deserve ostracism.  To put it in contemporary context:  would one rather meet and greet with O.J., or turn away (with or without) making a (small) scene about the blood on his hands?  Arguments can be made on both sides, but ultimately the decision is a marker of the person's own character, conviction, and adherence to principle.

    The blood on Bushie's hands (and Deadeye's, and all the rest) militates toward refusing him even the miniscule social graces his office would otherwise demand.  Webb was right.

    Parent

    Scribe (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by glanton on Thu Nov 30, 2006 at 01:05:49 PM EST
    That's exactly it.  It has always bothered me to see powerful people authorize physical and economic atrocities even as they go around masquerading as paragons of politeness and virtue.  Such people deserve instead to be marked as pariahs.

    The O.J. comparison is apt indeed.

    Parent

    Why would a true leader of men... (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by Bill Arnett on Thu Nov 30, 2006 at 12:54:00 PM EST
    ...care to have his picture taken with the worst leader in the world, who cares so little for the lives of Americans that he can neither successfully prosecute a war, nor maintain any respect from other world leaders.

    From AP HERE:

    President Bush's high-profile meeting with Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki on Wednesday was canceled in a stunning turn of events after disclosure of U.S. doubts about the Iraqi leader's capabilities and a political boycott in Baghdad protesting his attendance.
    -------
    The abrupt cancellation was an almost unheard-of development in the high-level diplomatic circles of a U.S. president, a king and a prime minister. There was confusion -- and conflicting explanations -- about what happened.
    Bush had been scheduled to meet in a three-way session with al-Maliki and Jordan's King Abdullah II on Wednesday night, and had rearranged his schedule to be in Amman for both days for talks aimed at reducing the spiral of violence in
    Iraq.

    So, unfortunately for America, Webb was right to not kow-tow to bush, just as no world leaders will now.

    If we weren't so used to it... (5.00 / 0) (#28)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Thu Nov 30, 2006 at 05:37:52 PM EST
    It would appear absolutely ludicrous for people like the Georges...Will and Bush...to act offended by people who actually served Vietnam, when they made sure they never got within five time zones of a boobytrapped rice paddy.

    Pardon me but I have better places to spend my sympathy than on chickenhawks with ruffled feathers.


    I like this: (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by aw on Fri Dec 01, 2006 at 09:22:35 AM EST
    Kos

    Given the vitriol that Jim Webb has gotten from the Beltway Gasbags today, I'm cracking up at the fact that just three weeks ago, they were pointing to him as an example of how Americans were "still conservative".

    Remember? Webb was supposed to be a "conservative Democrat" because, well, just because they said so. After all, didn't he serve in Reagan's Pentagon? And he's a Marine! And it's Virginia! And apparently that's all they needed to make their sage proclamations about Webb's victory.

    Then he went on Lou Dobbs and waxed populist and wrote that fiery WSJ op-ed, and you could almost picture the gasbags looking at each other nervously. He was supposed to be "conservative"! They had SAID SO!

    And now? He's a "boor".

    Whether they're nodding sagely about how obvious it is that Saddam has weapons of mass destruction, or yammering on about a guy they didn't know existed two months ago (and didn't take seriously until he won his election), this is just more evidence that those idiots don't know the first thing about the crap they're yammering about.




    Why would anyone expect anything but... (4.00 / 1) (#8)
    by Bill Arnett on Thu Nov 30, 2006 at 11:29:53 AM EST
    ...arrogant attitudes, lack of social skills, a total lack of empathy, or even good manners from the worst president ever and the worst world leader since Ghengis Kahn OR his sycophantic suck-ups like George Will, Krauthammer, Kristol, and the rest of the MSM that acts as bush's stenographers to maintain access.

    You can't blame a snake for being a snake, a dog for being a dog, or a sycophantic opinion writer for being a sycophantic opinion writer.

    That's precisely why I don't read anything by any of these people.

    Will is such a conflicted mess (4.00 / 1) (#14)
    by Dadler on Thu Nov 30, 2006 at 11:53:08 AM EST
    One week he's writing a column about what a disaster Iraq is, and how inept the leaders are who got us into it are; and the next moment he's utterly unable to comprehend the perspective of a parent with a child stuck in that madness.  How can you hold the war as an inexcusable fiasco and hold contempt for Webb here?  It defies all rational thought.  It evidences a mental disconnect of profound nature.  The war is awful, he has a child suffering in that war because of the incompetence of GW Bush and his pathetic crew.  Why would Will expect that parent to be anything but contemptuous?

    How do you THINK his son is doing, Dubya?  Will?

    The lack of imagination is staggering.  As if Webb would say, "Just great."  The only answer to Webb's question is "He's stuck in a stupid war your mentally retarded as* got us into, he's in mortal danger every minute of every day, I get sick to my stomach just thinking about it."

    What other answer is there but contempt.  As if, no, Webb's kid got assigned to a golf course in rural Iraq where all sectarian differences play second fiddle to hitting the revered links.

    Will makes no sense as a person.  He is a brilliant brain with a twisted mind.


    Will is as you describe him Dadler (4.00 / 1) (#15)
    by glanton on Thu Nov 30, 2006 at 11:56:44 AM EST
    and the only thing that saves him from being a total waste of human skin is his wonderful baseball analyses.

    On second thought, nevermind. Will is indeed a total waste of human skin. There are, after all, plenty of poetic sportswriters who don't overtly suck up to the the military/industrial complex at every turn.    

    Parent

    PPK (4.00 / 1) (#21)
    by TomStewart on Thu Nov 30, 2006 at 12:59:46 PM EST
    Dems should never be embarrassed at the actions of a man standing up for what he believes, as long as he does so in a safe and legal manner.

    You do bring up a point that others have missed, the fact that Webb took off and didn't want to have his picture taken with the man Webb believes placed his son in danger of his life for shallow and selfish reasons. Don't you think that staying and taking one of those handshaking, smiling photos would have been hypocritical? I bet Webb thought so.

    Bush provoked the confrontation by seeking Webb out and asking about Webb's son, the very person Bush himself had placed in danger. Now that's rude, and he deserved what he got


    Just a little nuts... (3.50 / 2) (#2)
    by desertswine on Thu Nov 30, 2006 at 09:51:41 AM EST
    Will fails to mention that Bush is a sociopath.

    One who is affected with a personality disorder marked by antisocial behavior.


    As someone at TPM pointed out - (none / 0) (#5)
    by Kitt on Thu Nov 30, 2006 at 10:25:06 AM EST
    [On November 30, 2006 - 10:28am Aaron Barlow said:]

    A polite question about his son?

    Give me a break! This is just the kind of point bloggers should be making.

    Bush has put Webb's son in danger. His question is like a little kid asking, as he hangs a puppy by its hind legs out of a second-floor window, "How's your dog?"

    The question was aggressive and abusive.

    Quite the analogy, eh?

    don't insult the memory.... (none / 0) (#23)
    by cpinva on Thu Nov 30, 2006 at 01:20:37 PM EST
    of genghis khan, by comparing him to g. bush. the great khan would have run roughshod over our president, as both warrior and administrator.

    the great khan never entered into battle, without knowing precisely what his goals were, having sufficient troops to achieve them, and a plan to totally subjugate the civilian population, and bring it under his control once military victory was his.

    his empire lasted several hundred years after his death, the same will not be true of mr. bush.

    jim, if i read you correctly (and i do, always, you're pretty transparent) had bush been hitler, and webb the father of a son in dachaou, he should have still observed the civil niceties, because that wasn't really the time or place?

    things that make you go, hmmmmmmmmmmm!

    webb exemplifies the attitude that the dems should take, in the new congress. why be friendly to a group that has utterly screwed this country up? i wouldn't be. they can all go hang themselves, as far as i'm concerned.

    the current administration, and congress, is deserving of nothing less than total contempt. dr. will, a lapdog of this administration and congress, should be treated in no less a manner.

    PPJ (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by aw on Thu Nov 30, 2006 at 01:28:47 PM EST
    Would feel honored if Bush's motorcade ran him over.

    Parent
    Apologies sincerely tendered. Forgive me? (none / 0) (#26)
    by Bill Arnett on Thu Nov 30, 2006 at 01:31:46 PM EST
    naw, PPJ would apologize (none / 0) (#27)
    by scribe on Thu Nov 30, 2006 at 01:36:52 PM EST
    to Deadeye Dick Cheney for getting in the way of his birdshot.

    Beyond that, on this thread I never brought up Genghis Khan.  I did bring up (in various places):

    • Caligula (Bush and Bush Admin. compared unfavorably to him/his gov't),
    • Mama Barbara Bush (proud warper of her children),
    • W. S. Churchill (favorable comparison to Webb)
    • O.J. Simpson (for blood-on-hands comparison to Bush),
    • Jameson Raid (to set historical scene for Churchill reference).

    Please, keep my comparisons straight.  I try to.


    Parent
    Poor anology (none / 0) (#31)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Dec 01, 2006 at 08:59:14 AM EST
    jim, if i read you correctly (and i do, always, you're pretty transparent) had bush been hitler, and webb the father of a son in dachaou, he should have still observed the civil niceties, because that wasn't really the time or place?

    cpinva - That has to be the dumbest anology I have ever read, and since I know you aren't dumb, I'll just put it down to you sliding ever further to the Left.

    I would say that Bush did recognize Webb's actions, and did seek him out to meet him and say, let's bury the campaign and try to work together, and asked a reasonable question. "How's your son?"

    Webb's rejection, I hope, will someday come back and bite him on the butt.

    He has already made himself look bad.

    Parent

    no scribe, you didn't..... (none / 0) (#30)
    by cpinva on Thu Nov 30, 2006 at 08:56:18 PM EST
    bill arnett did, in describing bush as the worst leader since genghis khan. i have no idea why you think i was refering to you, but i obviously wasn't.

    i do, however, stand by my post: genghis khan was a far more effictive leader than g. bush can ever hope to be. mr. bush couldn't the great khan's jock strap.

    Anger GK? (none / 0) (#33)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Dec 01, 2006 at 11:46:47 AM EST
    cpinva - Given that Genhis K could cut off heads and skin people alive I somehow don't see anyone deliberately trying to anger him.


    Parent
    Zoooooooom---------- (none / 0) (#34)
    by aw on Fri Dec 01, 2006 at 11:49:39 AM EST
    Zoooooooom----------

    Parent
    A bird, a plane? (none / 0) (#35)
    by squeaky on Fri Dec 01, 2006 at 12:00:21 PM EST
    Or is that the sound of naval avaition overhead?

    Parent
    It's a (none / 0) (#36)
    by aw on Fri Dec 01, 2006 at 12:09:02 PM EST
    Aha! (none / 0) (#38)
    by Edger on Fri Dec 01, 2006 at 12:10:36 PM EST
    That's where the whistling sound came from! :-)

    Parent
    Whatever it was... (none / 0) (#37)
    by Edger on Fri Dec 01, 2006 at 12:09:39 PM EST