"That's Not What I Asked": Peggy Noonan Defends Webb

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Other Politics
Posted on Fri Dec 01, 2006 at 12:13:22 PM EST
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This is interesting:

The latest example of a lack of grace in Washington is the exchange between Jim Webb and President Bush at a White House Christmas party. Mr. Webb did not want to pose with the president and so didn't join the picture line. Fair enough, everyone feels silly on a picture line. Mr. Bush approached him later and asked after his son, a Marine. Mr. Webb said he'd like his son back from Iraq. Mr. Bush then, according to the Washington Post, said: "That's not what I asked you. How's your son?" Mr. Webb replied that's between him and his son.
For this Mr. Webb has been roundly criticized. And on reading the exchange I thought it had the sound of the rattling little aggressions of our day, but not on Mr. Webb's side. Imagine Lincoln saying, in such circumstances, "That's not what I asked you." Or JFK. Or Gerald Ford!
"That's not what I asked you" is a sentence straight from cable TV, from which many Americans are acquiring an attitude toward public and even private presentation.

The President of the United States should not behave like Sean Hannity. In public or private. Good for Noonan.

h/t - Jason Zengerle

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"That's Not What I Asked": Peggy Noonan Defends Webb | 24 comments (24 topical)

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Unbelievable. (none / 0) (#1)
by Bill Arnett on Fri Dec 01, 2006 at 12:52:55 PM EST

Qouting the undesirable (none / 0) (#2)
by koshembos on Fri Dec 01, 2006 at 01:03:52 PM EST

If the blogosphere has one big fault, it is its incessant quoting of people who should be either ignored or mentioned at most once in a life time.

Ms. Peggy does not matter; read my lips "doesn't matter."

Well (none / 0) (#5)
by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Dec 01, 2006 at 01:20:53 PM EST

Should I say that one of the faults is commenters who do not understand the dynamics of politcs?

Nah. You are just wrong is all. No sin there.


Wise men (1.00 / 0) (#16)
by jimakaPPJ on Sun Dec 03, 2006 at 09:03:38 AM EST

Actually BT, Bush's inquiring about Webb's boy, and Webb's nasty response will be rememebered. Remembered as an action by Webb that he would have been wise to not take.

But, relaxing in the glow of his win, and thinking he is the new king of the world he forgets that he is merely a senator elected by the smallest of margins.


Monkey see Monkey do (none / 0) (#19)
by squeaky on Sun Dec 03, 2006 at 01:35:42 PM EST

He must be taking after King George who thinks he is the voice of GOD and just what he pleases.


Man of Principal (none / 0) (#20)
by squeaky on Sun Dec 03, 2006 at 01:55:10 PM EST

A fallen hero of ppj's?

When I came to Washington in the early 1980s, Jim Webb was best known as a vociferous spokesman for the movement to scrap the design for the Vietnam War Memorial -- or, as he and his fellow protestors called it, "the wall of shame." He was the prototypical Angry Vietnam Vet, convinced that the hippies and the campus radicals had stabbed him and his band of brothers in the back while they were fighting in jungle, then spit on them when they returned home.
He was, in other words, a died-in-the-wool reactionary -- the thinking man's Ollie North. Webb once famously refused to shake John Kerry's hand because of Kerry's role in publicizing alleged U.S. war crimes in Vietnam. Some of his fellow anti-memorial activists later went on to run the Swift boat campaign against Kerry in the 2004 election.

billmon


a call for civility ... (none / 0) (#22)
by Sailor on Sun Dec 03, 2006 at 04:46:03 PM EST

...from a commenter who constantly insults others.

Remembered as an action by Webb that he would have been wise to not take.

That's comforting since ppj has been wrong about everything, I know the opposite will take place. (Obviously he forgot the 'truth to power' message.)

I'm sure he would have advised webb not to do it, yet another example of why his advice to dems on how to win and how to act should not just be ignored, but the opposite should be the action taken.

Webb was trying to avoid bush, bush deliberately sought him out and insulted him with a veiled threat (Webb had always maintained that to raise the profile of one marine would be to raise his threat level). Webb responed as civilly as a person could who had just had their family threatened.

And please, the 'decorum, folks, decorum' was given a lie by all the bushlickers when cheney told Leahy to GFY on the senate floor.

Does 'and the horse you rode in on' mean anything to these people?


: This is more succint (none / 0) (#23)
by Kitt on Sun Dec 03, 2006 at 05:02:26 PM EST

"The president was trying to exchange pleasantries with a Senator-elect whose son is risking his life in a war that should never have been fought," Moran said.
That's Rep. James P. Moran, D-8th, Virginia.

: veiled threat (none / 0) (#24)
by squeaky on Sun Dec 03, 2006 at 05:09:41 PM EST

I hadn't thought of it but you made a good point Sailor. By publicly bringing attention to Webb's son he was putting a target on his back.
I think that the appropriate response would have to been to punch Bush in the face.
oh, and nice putting ppj in the trash where he belongs.

: More from Rep. Moran (none / 0) (#25)
by Kitt on Sun Dec 03, 2006 at 08:44:42 PM EST

"Well, tonight I attended a party honoring volunteers in the Hunter Mill District of Fairfax County, VA.....I had the opportunity to chat with Congressman Jim Moran (D-Va 8th district) in private before he publicly addressed the group. I recounted how proud I was of Webb's actions in front of Bush, and recounted the speculation on whether Bush could possibly have known about the incident with Webb's son. He said, without hesitation:
"Not only did Bush know about it, he was specifically briefed on the incident before meeting with Webb, and was cautioned to be extra sensitive in speaking with Webb about his son."
Just to make sure, I said: "Wow, I guess not too many people know about this," and he said: "That's right they don't, but I know it's true, and there are lots of things people don't know about that would surprise them"

: Shameless (none / 0) (#28)
by squeaky on Fri Dec 22, 2006 at 01:41:11 PM EST

Not only was
Webb was trying to avoid bush, bush deliberately sought him out and insulted him with a veiled threat (Webb had always maintained that to raise the profile of one marine would be to raise his threat level). Webb responed as civilly as a person could who had just had their family threatened.

but the WH was the one who leaked the story.
Webb calls the coverage of that "vastly overblown" but adds: "I think what I said was appropriate." He also stated, "This was something that emanated from the White House. I did not say anything about this for two weeks. I said nothing publicly at all."

she does matter in this instance (none / 0) (#3)
by skippybkroo on Fri Dec 01, 2006 at 01:13:34 PM EST

with all due respect to koshembos, noonan's remarks here absolutely do matter, because it's another example of how the great wurlitzer is beginning to break down, and the zombies of the hardly-ever-right wing are beginning to actually show some sense.

she's right. awol had no call to start in with the misdirecting "that's not what i asked you." it was, heretofor, a civil conversation, and the natural flow of discussing someone in iraq of course leads to their not wanting to be in iraq. that the recipient of that conversation happens to be the guy that stuck webb's son (and everyone else who is serving) there is not an excuse to avoid the subject.

kudos to webb for sticking up for himself, and kudos to noonan (never thought i'd be writing those words) for correctly pointing out who was incivil to whom.

But he's a gift! (none / 0) (#4)
by DavidDvorkin on Fri Dec 01, 2006 at 01:20:25 PM EST

I don't remember the wording, but after Dubya entered the White House illegitimately the first time, Noonan wrote something like, "More and more, this presidency seems like a gift." I.e., from God.

Now that she's turning, albeit marginally, against the ill-mannered little bushbaby, has she ever apologized for that early fawning?

Here's the rub (none / 0) (#6)
by scribe on Fri Dec 01, 2006 at 01:37:41 PM EST

Noonan writes:

For this Mr. Webb has been roundly criticized. And on reading the exchange I thought it had the sound of the rattling little aggressions of our day, but not on Mr. Webb's side. Imagine Lincoln saying, in such circumstances, "That's not what I asked you." Or JFK. Or Gerald Ford!

There's a deep question in here which I've been mulling this over for a while. These mulls usually begin about the time circumstances compel me to watch The Unit speak to the press or a group (like, when I can't change the channel):

"Why can't we have a President who behaves like a President[, instead of an overgrown man-child]?"

Look at him. He's the seven-year-old compelled to wear a suit, when he'd rather be rolling in the mud with other boys his age, making no secret of his preference. Writchy, gretzy, can't sit still and misbehaving.

The sad thing is, one could argue the level of statesmanlike demeanor fell downslope into today's abyss beginning sometime in the Reagan years, when Deaver and Ailes were putting Ronnie in situations where they wanted to "let Reagan be Reagan". And, to be fair, WJC's attitude was not nearly as "Presidential" as one might expect. It's one thing to drop the level of formality when doing it with a professional actor who (for all his B-list roles) wouldn't have made a lengthy career in Hollywood without some skill at acting, and who therefore knew at least how to control himself and the message he conveyed. It's another to accommodate a guy (WJC) who just can't help smiling, charming and gladhanding a whole room [don't go there...].

But The Unit? Can you conceive him acting in any other way? He's a living example of Gresham's Law applied to behavior.

Worse for the country though, is the loss of that level of demeanor-leading-by-example Presidents used to give. (Or, perhaps more precisely, the substitution of bad behavior for good). When Bush 41 was inaugurated, everyone rushed out to get those red ties with broad white stripes and three thin blue ones. Presidents, usually for good, set some standard of behavior.

Who among you would hold up to their children as an example of good behavior, probity or maturity the Current Occupant of 1600 Pa. Ave. NW?

: Barney and Miss Beasley? (none / 0) (#7)
by Bill Arnett on Fri Dec 01, 2006 at 01:50:05 PM EST

jim webb doesn't need defending (none / 0) (#8)
by cpinva on Fri Dec 01, 2006 at 02:00:00 PM EST

he's more than capable of holding his own. certainly more so than the "decider in chief". this has been one of the few elections in recent years, that i felt good about voting in; i actually had a choice i wanted to vote for.

it's nice that peggy noonan finally awakened from her deep sleep, but who really cares what she thinks? the true believers will continue to believe whatever they're told to, by hannity, limbaugh, etc. all the way to bankruptcy court.

: so far as I'm concerned, the point isn't (none / 0) (#9)
by scribe on Fri Dec 01, 2006 at 02:10:14 PM EST

about defending Webb. Rather it's about
(1) making sure he sees he's not alone, both for himself and for others who would stand along side him, and
(2) kicking the rethugs while they're going down, to make sure they go down and stay down.
As to (1), sole voices in the woods often get tired and quit. We cannot afford that.
As to (2), well, sorry. But not really: I'm being honest about it.

Don't ignore this (none / 0) (#11)
by Kitt on Fri Dec 01, 2006 at 11:28:37 PM EST

And Noonan is not accurate here; she uses the phrase 'your son.' Accordingly, Bush did refer to Webb's son as his son, but his boy. It's arrogant. I refuse to give Bush the benefit of any doubt because I don't think it's required. His intent was to bully because he is of the mindset that as president, he can do whatever without repercussion or comeuppance.

Mr. Bush approached him later and asked after his son, a Marine. Mr. Webb said he'd like his son back from Iraq. Mr. Bush then, according to the Washington Post, said: "That's not what I asked you. How's your son?" Mr. Webb replied that's between him and his son.

: Oops (none / 0) (#12)
by Kitt on Sat Dec 02, 2006 at 07:39:51 AM EST

There's a 'not' that should be in this sentence as above:
"Accordingly, Bush did NOT refer to Webb's son as his son, but his boy."

Ms Noonan writes: (none / 0) (#13)
by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 02, 2006 at 08:17:49 PM EST

Imagine Lincoln saying, in such circumstances, "That's not what I asked you." Or JFK. Or Gerald Ford!"

Better yet, imagine someone being as rude to them as Webb was when Bush made an attempt at a civil conversation.

Boy (none / 0) (#18)
by squeaky on Sun Dec 03, 2006 at 01:23:34 PM EST

Hey boy, go an' fetch me som mo o' dat water from the WH swamp. Got dat boy.

Ahhhh the south is so genteel.

Bush isn't Southern (none / 0) (#21)
by Kitt on Sun Dec 03, 2006 at 03:48:38 PM EST

He'd have better manners.

I could give a sh*t what YOU say about this exchange, Bush meant it derogatorily...as the president you do not blithely inquire about someone's son who you put in harm's way nor reference them in a familiar way. Akin to the German 'sie' versus 'du.'

Parochial - you're the very definition of parochial, Jim.

Here we go - from a sutherner... (none / 0) (#26)
by Kitt on Sun Dec 03, 2006 at 08:58:43 PM EST

First of all, the good ol' boy pose by GW was tin-eared when he asked about "your boy." That would be okay between two Southerners in a close community where the families all knew and grew up with each other (and everyone knew it, and knew the NAME of the offspring in question). It is demeaning and deliberately so when posed by an arrogant little pissant trying to patronize a subordinate.

Like I said, between the formal and the familiar, as in the German 'sie' (formal & common use) versus the familiarity and intimacy of 'du.'

: Deserves repeating: (none / 0) (#27)
by squeaky on Sun Dec 03, 2006 at 09:10:52 PM EST

It is demeaning and deliberately so when posed by an arrogant little pissant trying to patronize a subordinate.