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Keith Ellison Reacts to Virgil Goode's Muslim Comments

By Jeralyn, Section Elections 2006
Posted on Thu Dec 21, 2006 at 05:13:57 PM EST
Tags: Keith Ellison, Virgil Goode (all tags)
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As a follow-up to TChris' post here, Wolf Blitzer had newly elected Congressman Keith Ellison on the Situation Room this afternoon.

Background:

In a letter released to CNN Wednesday, Goode wrote in part to a constituent, "I do not subscribe to using the Koran in any way. The Muslim representative from Minnesota was elected by the voters of that district and if American citizens don't wake up and adopt the Virgil Goode position on immigration there will likely be many more Muslims elected to office and demanding the use of the Koran."

Ellison's response: Goode "has a lot to learn about Islam."

"I would urge Congressman Goode to have his congregation reach out to a synagogue or a mosque and start some inter-faith dialogue so we can increase understanding among each other as American of different faiths," Ellison said.

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    Keith Ellison Reacts to Virgil Goode's Muslim Comments | 75 comments (75 topical)

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    Whatever happened to treating people (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by Kitt on Thu Dec 21, 2006 at 06:09:35 PM EST
    like you want to be treated? When did being a christian become synonymous with being a jackass to people and SO freakin' intolerant?

    So, it's going to take a Muslim to 'teach' them how to behave "Christlike."

    As for Mr. Ellison....you're more kind than I.

    translation: (none / 0) (#4)
    by squeaky on Thu Dec 21, 2006 at 06:15:45 PM EST
    like you want to be treated?
    They mean being treated by other christianists. When it comes to Moslems, anything goes.

    Parent
    It still is followed (none / 0) (#5)
    by Edger on Thu Dec 21, 2006 at 06:48:52 PM EST
    by real christians. Just not by the fakers.

    Parent
    Flip (1.00 / 2) (#8)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Dec 21, 2006 at 07:32:55 PM EST
    If the Congressman from MN would renounce CAIR he would certainly have my attention.

    As it is I see him as the flip side of Goode.

    So (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by scarshapedstar on Thu Dec 21, 2006 at 09:50:39 PM EST
    When, exactly, did Ellison attack Goode? Since he's the mirror image and all.

    Parent
    As I'm sure you'll get some attention when (none / 0) (#9)
    by Edger on Thu Dec 21, 2006 at 07:41:14 PM EST
    you renounce the KKK.

    Parent
    Next (none / 0) (#13)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Dec 21, 2006 at 09:03:54 PM EST
    Glad to.

    Your turn.

    Renounce the ACLU?

    Parent

    1) That's a start. (none / 0) (#15)
    by Edger on Thu Dec 21, 2006 at 09:22:30 PM EST
    1. No. I have no need to. It's not a racist org.

    2. Now. Let's hear you renounce goodes racism.


    Parent
    Islam is a religion (none / 0) (#19)
    by Wile ECoyote on Fri Dec 22, 2006 at 05:07:22 AM EST
    not a race.  I've seen european, african, east asian and west asian followers of islam.  

    Parent
    Wile, I thought you were too smart (none / 0) (#20)
    by Edger on Fri Dec 22, 2006 at 06:35:38 AM EST
    to walk into that. Sigh.

    goode: "if American citizens don't wake up and adopt the Virgil Goode position on immigration there will likely be many more Muslims elected to office and demanding the use of the Koran"

    "Islam" is a religion. "Moslem" is an alternative spelling of "Muslim", a follower of "Islam".

    I think you'll find that most followers of Islam are members of non-white races.

    Semantics. Goode expresses racism and bigotry.

    It's a major part of who he is, and of anyone who excuses or supports him.

    Watch your step.

    Parent

    he's not necessarily a racist ... (none / 0) (#36)
    by Sailor on Fri Dec 22, 2006 at 10:59:15 AM EST
    ... just a christofascist.

    Parent
    edger - Islam is not a race. (none / 0) (#21)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Dec 22, 2006 at 08:40:50 AM EST
    It is a religion that is highly intolerant of Jews and other non-believers, declares war frequently on people because they don't believe and currently has a large number of radicals that have declared war on the west.

    As for why you should renounce the ACLU, Big Tent Democrat made a very strong point in a post a few inches below.

    Yes, pragmatism. For what defines a liberal is not the program or policy that is implemented, but rather the result reached. Indeed, it becomes, in some cases, a fatal flaw. Consider the romance with left wing totalitarian regimes like the former Soviet Union prior to 1950 and the continuing romance with Castro's Cuba. We lliberal love our goals - equality, egalitarianism, economic and racial justice and where our goals our mouthed by an ideology, we are more tolerant. We should not be.

    I supported the ACLU for years. I think it has now went over the edge in many of its efforts, existing only to exist and in many cases its actions have become counterproductive to the goals all liberals should have.

    Yes edger, the road to hell can be paved with good intentions and sometimes groups that helped in the past can hurt in the present.

    Parent

    Dude, the ACLU defended Nazis... (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by Dadler on Fri Dec 22, 2006 at 01:48:18 PM EST
    ...decades ago.  They are what you constantly harp about being in the abstract, a socially liberal organization that defends whom it defends even when that defense puts them in a very difficult and scrutinized position, putting something tangible on the line in the defense of higher prinicples.

    That's what we all aspire to be, able to stand up for what we believe in when doing so actually comes with some risk.  The easy choice is not what the ACLU is about.  For that I'd expect you to have at least a measure of respect.  

    Parent

    Lately, I've noticed (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by scarshapedstar on Fri Dec 22, 2006 at 03:54:03 PM EST
    Jim seems to be dropping the "social liberal" facade.

    Shades of Impostor...

    (not to mention Tireless Rebutter, Artful Dodger, and Troglodyte...

    Parent

    One more... (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Mon Dec 25, 2006 at 09:16:38 AM EST
    Stone Deaf

    Parent
    Troglodyte (none / 0) (#58)
    by squeaky on Fri Dec 22, 2006 at 07:08:57 PM EST
    characterizes as "conservative" or "libertarian", but which could be more accurately described as "bigoted narcissism".

    lol

    Parent

    Race? (none / 0) (#23)
    by squeaky on Fri Dec 22, 2006 at 09:28:51 AM EST
    Semantics. Goode expresses racism and bigotry.

    Race is a term that is made up by racists who believe that they are genetically better than others who they ascribe a 'race' to.

    People who quickly jump to correct the usage of the word are usually also racists. The tip off is that they never follow with: 'didn't you mean bigotry?'  

    What 'race' are ppj?  Prove it.

    BTW- there are more christianists that want to see people dead than moslems, both today and throught history. There are more christiansts that hate than moslems, yes today ppj, just look in the mirror.  

    There must be some joy in the bedwetter fantasy. Seems a bit silly to me but, different strokes...

    Parent

    squeaky, I see that you have engaged in (1.00 / 1) (#25)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Dec 22, 2006 at 09:46:09 AM EST
    the old trick of wanting to define words for what you want them to mean, rather than what the dictionary says.

    racism - : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

    The belief in Islam clearly is not a race.

    Now, if you want to call Goode a bigot, have at it.

    bigot - :  person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices

    But, by definition he isn't a racist.

    And by calling him one you display your own biases and reduce your argument because of its inaccuracy.

    Parent

    hahahahaha (none / 0) (#26)
    by squeaky on Fri Dec 22, 2006 at 09:49:53 AM EST
    People who quickly jump to correct the usage of the word are usually also racists. The tip off is that they never follow with: 'didn't you mean bigotry?'  
    er...that is until someone calls them on it. Never fails.

    hahahahah


    Parent

    The question, Jim.... (none / 0) (#27)
    by Edger on Fri Dec 22, 2006 at 09:52:03 AM EST
    Semantic games, Jim.

    Afraid of the question, Jim?

    Parent

    squeaky (none / 0) (#35)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Dec 22, 2006 at 10:52:23 AM EST
    Why are you trying to change the meaning of "racism?"

    Either you have an agenda or you are intelligent enough to understand the correct usage.

    Your choice on the question's answer.

    Parent

    OK how about this: (none / 0) (#60)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 23, 2006 at 11:53:13 AM EST
    Do you agree with Goode's racist and bigoted remarks on immigration. I think you do. If so:

    Are there too many Moslems in this country? If so how many are too many.

    Parent

    You're reduced to trolling (none / 0) (#24)
    by Edger on Fri Dec 22, 2006 at 09:29:04 AM EST
    and attempting to hijack the thread.

    Do you support or do you denounce Goode's racism and bigotry?

    I already know the answer, btw - I just want to see you avoid the question one more time. Just so we're completely clear on this, you know.

    Stand up for yourself Jim. If you can.

    Parent

    The post is about comments made (1.00 / 1) (#29)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Dec 22, 2006 at 10:16:29 AM EST
    by Ellison and Goode.

    My position and comments directly relate to those made by the subjects. Your problem is that you don't agree and any comment you disagree with must be off subject. You have a further problem because I have noted that the claims of racism have beeen thoroughly and accurately proven wrong.

    I find you, and many others on the Left, as intolerant as you claim Goode to be.

    I have provided links showing why I find Ellison's positions and relationships as troublesome as you find Goode's comments.

    As I noted, I find both on the same coin, but different sides.

    My position on immigration has not changed. The borders should be shut down and all immigration stopped until we have enough time to assimilate those who are legaly here now. During that time we can rationalize who should, or should not, be let in.

    edger, you never say it, but I think you believe in open borders. This would suggest that you have no particular belief in country, culture or laws, although you strongly support the Bill of Rights... without, I might add, any mention of responsibilities. Nor do you ever mention the problems, being displayed in Europe, of unrestrained immigration and the resulting lack of  assimilation, moslem ghettos and the resulting demands for self rule and Shari law instead of secular. These demands are in fact, a revolution. France has burned and will burn more.

    I would call neither men racists, or bigots. I think both are suspicious of the other, perhaps rightly so.


    Parent

    The QUESTION, Jim. (none / 0) (#31)
    by Edger on Fri Dec 22, 2006 at 10:27:39 AM EST
    I already know the answer, btw - I just want to see you avoid the question one more time. Just so we're completely clear on this, you know.

    You just answered it with your non-answer. You just can't resist that impulse to avoid the mirror can you?

    Don't fall...

    Parent

    edger - You never can understand a simple answer (none / 0) (#33)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Dec 22, 2006 at 10:43:01 AM EST
    that you dislike.

    Parent
    I understand completely, Jim. (none / 0) (#34)
    by Edger on Fri Dec 22, 2006 at 10:45:10 AM EST
    You just can't bring yourself to denounce racism. Or bigotry.

    Can you?

    Parent

    Your question is insulting. (none / 0) (#37)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Dec 22, 2006 at 11:02:03 AM EST
    Show me where I have stated I support racism.

    I, as you know, have made many statements in support of minority rights, etc.

    As usual, unable to refute the comment and the links to support it, you go off subject and launch a personal attack.

    You define yourself again.

    Ta! Ta!

    Parent

    Run away again (none / 0) (#38)
    by Edger on Fri Dec 22, 2006 at 11:04:58 AM EST
    Nothing new here.

    Parent
    Yes I'm sure your mirror is insulting too (none / 0) (#62)
    by Edger on Sun Dec 24, 2006 at 07:22:39 AM EST
    I, as you know, have made many statements in support of minority rights, etc.
    Posted by JimakaPPJ
    February 11, 2006 09:16 PM

    et al - To keep my reputation up, I offer you, Muslim Opinion Be Damned"



    Parent
    He is not alone (none / 0) (#51)
    by squeaky on Fri Dec 22, 2006 at 02:02:32 PM EST
    The rest of his republican friends are buttoned lipped too.

    As of now, Goode still isn't shy about his anti-Muslim attitudes, and the rest of the GOP still doesn't want to talk about it.

    Since news of anti-Muslim comments by Rep. Virgil Goode (R-VA) surfaced a few days ago, a number of public figures and groups have cried foul. But so far, we haven't spotted a single Republican making a comment on the topic.

    Sen. John Warner (R-Va.) offered some vaguely supportive comments towards Rep.-elect Keith Ellison (D-Minn.),but we're still waiting for the first Republican to denounce Goode directly. I have a hunch we'll be waiting for a long while.

    crooks and liars

    Parent

    Yes (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by Edger on Fri Dec 22, 2006 at 02:14:43 PM EST
    It's a variation on the old theme, isn't it?

    Lying isn't lying because what we do we don't define as lying.

    Terror isn't terror because what we do we don't define as terror.

    Wars of aggression aren't wars of aggression because what we do we don't define as wars of aggression.

    Torture isn't torture because what we do we don't define as torture.

    Racism isn't racism because what we do we don't define as racism.

    Bigotry isn't bigotry because what we do we don't define as bigotry.

    Denial isn't denial because what we do we don't define as denial.

    That about sum it up there Jimbo?

    Parent

    Dear Leader (none / 0) (#61)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 23, 2006 at 01:39:41 PM EST
    edger - Islam is not a race.
    Better tell our dear leader. He is soooooo generous when he talks about those poor people whose skins are not necessarily....
    There's a lot of people in the world who don't believe that people whose skin color may not be the same as ours can be free and self-govern. I reject that. I reject that strongly. I believe that people who practice the Muslim faith can self-govern. I believe that people whose skins aren't necessarily -- are a different color than white can self-govern.

    digby

    Parent

    Why on earth (none / 0) (#16)
    by scarshapedstar on Thu Dec 21, 2006 at 09:49:19 PM EST
    Would a social liberal be against the ACLU? Seriously.

    Parent
    Why? (none / 0) (#11)
    by Kitt on Thu Dec 21, 2006 at 08:33:04 PM EST
    Why does he need to renouce CAIR? Shall we put restrictions on all members of Congress. Did Strom Thurmond renounce the Klan?

    Nor is he the flip side of Goode.

    Parent

    Hurt (none / 0) (#14)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Dec 21, 2006 at 09:05:01 PM EST
    He should renounce CAIR because support of it will hurt Moslems.

    Parent
    Pfffttt! (n/t) (none / 0) (#18)
    by Kitt on Fri Dec 22, 2006 at 02:10:56 AM EST


    Parent
    How drool..... Pfffft??? (1.00 / 1) (#22)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Dec 22, 2006 at 08:56:18 AM EST
    Kitt, that's so funny. Someone makes a point and you  spit/hiss at them??? Lord, lord. How the debate level continues to fall.

    Mr. Ellison's campaign obviously has downplayed the affiliation with Mr. Awad. But here are the facts: Mr. Awad headlined a fundraiser last month that the campaign estimates netted $15,000 to $20,000, and in July, and it appears that CAIR's co-founder bundled contributions totaling just over $10,000. (The campaign issued a terse denial on the latter point, though it refused to explain away overwhelming evidence to the contrary.)

    Dick Durbin of Illinois, the Senate's second-leading Democrat, has said that CAIR "is unusual in its extreme rhetoric and its association with groups that are suspect." Sen. Charles Schumer of New York, who chairs the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee, has stated flatly that CAIR "has ties to terrorism." Mr. Schumer has special disdain for Mr. Awad and CAIR's other co-founder, Omar Ahmad, saying in a 2003 hearing that both men have "intimate connections with Hamas."

    Addressing a youth session at the 1999 Islamic Association of Palestine convention in Chicago, Mr. Ahmad glorified suicide bombers who "kill themselves for Islam": "Fighting for freedom, fighting for Islam, that is not suicide. They kill themselves for Islam." (Transcript provided by the Investigative Project.)

    Link

    Parent

    What's worse? (none / 0) (#50)
    by Dadler on Fri Dec 22, 2006 at 01:59:19 PM EST
    Supporting suicide bombers and their extremist acts of destruction and murder; or supporting the sending of kids to war for George W. Bush, where you might very well be blown up, too, and where you will likely blow up or otherwise kill and maim others?

    To me, that's at best a push.

    Parent

    Pfffttt! is neither a spit nor a hiss. (none / 0) (#28)
    by Kitt on Fri Dec 22, 2006 at 10:15:22 AM EST
    It's an injection along the lines of 'yeah, right' - it's more of a sound.

    It's to suggest that your argument that Mr. Ellison "prove" he's a real American is not valid (versus the usual, just plain stupid). As far as I'm concerned, Mr. Bush, Mr. Cheney, Mr. Gates, Mr. Wolfewitz, Mr. Perle...et.al...then, on to Mr. Newt, Mr. Goode, and perhaps, even, YOU should prove you're "real americans" because I have definitely not seen any proof of that over the past six years.

    And please, don't talk about my arguments lowering the level of the debate when that appears to be your sole intent for being here at Talk Left.

    Parent

    Okay.... hiss boo evaluates the debate? (none / 0) (#30)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Dec 22, 2006 at 10:25:53 AM EST
    Really?? I never knew.

    And please show me where I ask Ellison to prove he is a "real American." I do not and have not and it is demostrative of your dishonesty when you make such a claim.

    I do ask him to explain his relationship with CAIR and to move completely away from them for the reasons shown/linked to.

    I specifically refer you to the comments of Dem Senator Schummer. A person I think you will have a hard time calling a "right wing bigot."

    Parent

    I'm not playing this game (none / 0) (#32)
    by Kitt on Fri Dec 22, 2006 at 10:37:45 AM EST
    You don't want to have a dialogue, Jim. You want to get in your little jabs to prove something. I don't know what nor do I care. I'm not playing.

    You want to play with semantics - which would be fine if we discussing a word. We're not.

    We're discussing the bigoted comments of one representative in Congress aimed towards (however freakin' obliquely) a new, incoming  representative of Congress based solely upon his religion.

    Parent

    No Kitt (none / 0) (#39)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Dec 22, 2006 at 11:08:28 AM EST
    No Kitt, the post is about comments made by both men.

    You want to admire Ellison. I want to question him.

    If you want to accept everything he says, fine.

    Parent

    Both men (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by squeaky on Fri Dec 22, 2006 at 11:55:00 AM EST
    OK ppj, let's stick to the comments by both men that appear in this thread. One of the two comments shows extreme prejudice and goes contrary to american values, not the new ones you espouse, but the old ones that were written into the constitution. Goode wants america to be a christian country and is very afraid of other religions.

    Elison's comment is ironically more christianist than Goode's fearmongering, racebaiting and bigotry.  Elison is inviting, unafraid and open, very american, or old american as you like to have it.  

    What should we call the 'new' american position, that you stand for, with calls for closing the borders, constant questions about ones patriotism, and allegiance to america? Yes we know how much you loved McCarthism.

    neo-nazi fits the bill. any other thoughts ppj?

    Parent

    What? You the judge?? (none / 0) (#42)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Dec 22, 2006 at 12:26:30 PM EST
    This isn't court, so we can look at what both have said.

    Ellison's relationship with CAIR is troubling.

    Parent

    yes (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by squeaky on Fri Dec 22, 2006 at 12:42:22 PM EST
    neo-nazi is just about right.

    Parent
    No - the blog post is about Mr. Ellison's (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by Kitt on Fri Dec 22, 2006 at 12:41:14 PM EST
    response to a bigot. Your posts may encompass your opinion about both men's comments. I just find your remarks too much of a distraction because more often than not, that's exactly what they are to be - a distraction.

    Mr. Goode attacked Mr. Ellison. Mr. Ellison has NOT reciprocated.

    I find Mr. Goode's remarks far more troubling than Mr. Ellison's, and frankly & undoubtedly antithemtical to Christ's teachings as well as being quite unAmerican.

    Parent

    And Goode, Jim? (none / 0) (#40)
    by Edger on Fri Dec 22, 2006 at 11:17:34 AM EST


    Parent
    Have at it (none / 0) (#43)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Dec 22, 2006 at 12:29:16 PM EST
    And Goode what? His position is pretty clear. I think we both understand it. But if you want to question him, have at it

    Parent
    Heh. (none / 0) (#45)
    by Edger on Fri Dec 22, 2006 at 12:36:22 PM EST
    You're like a mouse stuck to a glueboard, Jim.

    You don't have to play dumb.

    And Goode what? His position is pretty clear.

    Your position Jim. You support his racism and bigotry by default, through not denouncing it.

    You just can't bring yourself to denounce racism. Or bigotry.

    Can you?

    Don't fall....

    Parent

    If you can read you will find (none / 0) (#44)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Dec 22, 2006 at 12:34:01 PM EST
    the following quotation in this thread by me.

    I have provided links showing why I find Ellison's positions and relationships as troublesome as you find Goode's comments.

    As I noted, I find both on the same coin, but different sides.

    Can you figure that out??

    Parent

    Strawman alert! (none / 0) (#12)
    by Sailor on Thu Dec 21, 2006 at 08:55:31 PM EST
    c'mon folks, you know this trick!

    Parent
    Moslem Phobia (none / 0) (#59)
    by squeaky on Fri Dec 22, 2006 at 07:38:53 PM EST
    What do you think ppj, are there too many people muslims in the US already? If not how many are too much?

    Parent
    Class. (none / 0) (#1)
    by Edger on Thu Dec 21, 2006 at 05:17:22 PM EST
    I wonder if goode will hear it fly right over his head.

    Good Answer Ellison..... (none / 0) (#2)
    by kdog on Thu Dec 21, 2006 at 05:57:27 PM EST
    I would have said "screw you too buddy".

    Parent
    don't believe for a moment (none / 0) (#6)
    by cpinva on Thu Dec 21, 2006 at 07:07:56 PM EST
    that virgil knows not what he does. these are his people, and he knows exactly what they want to hear, he's been telling it to them for years now.

    mr. goode knows his constituents, most of whom wouldn't be able to tell a muslim from a tree trunk, but are convinced they're taking over the world. he represents an area of SW Va not known as a bastion of enlightenment, home to liberty university (yes, that liberty university), and a thumpin' christian fundamentalist mentality.

    my sister-in-law lives there, so i have occasion to wend my way down 460 and visit. they're generally nice folks, but not all the smartest bulbs in the box. this is how the virgil goodes of the world continue to be re-elected. these are people who will eagerly take federal farm subsidy money, while at the very same time decry "welfare handouts".

    these be nascar folks (martinsville is home to a famous nascar track), who take their budweiser and bigotry seriously. do not be fooled, mr. goode does indeed represent these people.

    not all the smartest bulbs in the box (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Edger on Thu Dec 21, 2006 at 07:20:04 PM EST
    Goode ole' boys.

    Parent
    Divide and Conquer (none / 0) (#10)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Thu Dec 21, 2006 at 07:54:43 PM EST
    You can also expect Big Media to be pushing this us vs. them crap for the next two years. It's a great diversion from the real issues that they will do anything not to talk about. As long as people still fall for the old Roman strategy, they will keep using it.

    Goode what he is saying. (none / 0) (#48)
    by HC3 on Fri Dec 22, 2006 at 01:06:49 PM EST
    He really does not have to worry about what he has said. If he says that he is sorry, he will then suffer. Even his detractors in VA are saying that it is refreshing to hear someone at least say they mean what they say even if it is found to be objectionable. It is a shame that this comment will framed as the debate (current imigration policy and keep our border sound) instead of using a bible or the koran as a photo opportunity.  

    What kind of control freak would... (none / 0) (#52)
    by Bill Arnett on Fri Dec 22, 2006 at 02:13:17 PM EST
    ...want interrogate Ellison, make him break associations, and ask him to prove himself based on the clearly bigoted statements of a demented individual like Goode? Such interrogations would perforce be invasive of Rep Ellison's personal life and tantamount to saying only person's of this or that religion, but not Muslims, should be elected to office. That is ridiculous.

    Rep Ellison's business and connections to his community was judged by the voters who elected him to office, and anyone who disputes their choice is being very unAmerican.

    Goode has obviously sucked down every bit of fear/war mongering dished out by bush and cronies, and simply reveals himself to be a cowardly bully as well as a bigot, thus his personal insults he made to a Muslim student.

    Bill as usual you don't understand... (none / 0) (#63)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Dec 24, 2006 at 10:46:27 AM EST
    Or claim you don't....

    No one is wanting to make Ellison give up any association.. What I would like to see is for him to acknowledge his association with CAIR so that the voters can better frame and understand his actions.

    Until he does, I see him and Goode as flips sides of each other, although I give Goode bonus points for clearly stating his position.

    Parent

    I see you (none / 0) (#64)
    by Edger on Sun Dec 24, 2006 at 11:01:27 AM EST
    found more points to miss, again...

    Parent
    no surprise here (none / 0) (#65)
    by Sailor on Sun Dec 24, 2006 at 11:04:56 AM EST
    one christofascist supporting another one.

    But what can you expect from a commenter who advocates the gov't murder former judicial and political leaders.

    Parent

    Power fantasies (none / 0) (#66)
    by Edger on Sun Dec 24, 2006 at 11:16:09 AM EST
    I don't feel I have to wipe everybody out, Tom. Just my enemies.
    --Michael Corleone

    Parent
    How Many Muslims? (none / 0) (#67)
    by squeaky on Sun Dec 24, 2006 at 11:38:01 AM EST
    So ppj, are there too many Moslems in this country, if so how many are too much?

    "America is not simply a Constitution and it's not simply a piece of geography. It's far more than that. It's a people. It's a heritage. And our European heritage is what made America possible. And if our European heritage is lost, then we will also lose America."

    David Duke channelling ppj the 'jacksonian'

    Islam is the new communism for ppj et al, so any McCarthy tactics are peachy keen.

    Parent

    Historical Perspective (none / 0) (#54)
    by squeaky on Fri Dec 22, 2006 at 02:40:47 PM EST
    Historian Juan Cole sheds some historical light on how religious restrictions on immigration have no place in America. He concludes with something oft said to the racist bigots that try to justify their position here.
    So Virgil Goode should consider emigrating himself, to someplace where his sort of views might be welcome. They certainly aren't in the United States of America. And they never have been part of this country's values and principles.

    link

    Yes (none / 0) (#55)
    by Edger on Fri Dec 22, 2006 at 03:29:50 PM EST
    His "sort of views" are pretty much standard fare among radical religious fanatics and terrorists everywhere. Southwest Virginia... Saudi Arabia... lots of places. Even a few on Talkleft sometimes.

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    KKK = ACLU (none / 0) (#57)
    by jondee on Fri Dec 22, 2006 at 04:20:21 PM EST
    With "social liberals" like that, no one need ever fret about ignorant bigots. Someone cant think outside the Fox box; and a mighty dark, airtight, space it is.

    Lone Republican repudiation (none / 0) (#68)
    by squeaky on Sun Dec 24, 2006 at 04:03:40 PM EST
    From Josh Marshall:


    George Stephanopoulos asked Sen. Lindsey Graham (R) about Virgil Goode this morning. And the senator from South Carolina did not disappoint ...

    Finally someone on the other side of the aisle distances himself from the racist Goode:


    We need immigration reform, but not for the reasons that Mr. Goode cited....

    And what I would like America to do in 2007 is understand that the war on terror is about intolerance....

    And Iran and Syria are not tolerant states, and the statements by Virgil Goode do not represent the best of who we are as a nation.
    Well... (none / 0) (#69)
    by Edger on Sun Dec 24, 2006 at 04:20:29 PM EST
    the statements by Virgil Goode do not represent the best of who we are as a nation.

    Is about the mildest 'distancing' I can think of, and seems to be miles away from denouncing Goodes attitude. But I guess it's some kind of start...

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    I agree (none / 0) (#70)
    by squeaky on Sun Dec 24, 2006 at 04:30:30 PM EST
    Although he did compare the devil (Iran and Syria) to Goode which, given the demonization of the two countries these days, it qualifies as a really strong rebuke. Graham deserves credit for moving out of the republican lockstep over something that is so obviously un-american.

    The real question is what are the rest of the republican cowards thinking?

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    compare the devil ... to Goode (none / 0) (#71)
    by Edger on Sun Dec 24, 2006 at 04:37:58 PM EST
    That's true I suppose. And maybe Graham he wouldn't have felt able to say it unless some other powerful repubs are thinking the same thing and just haven't figured out how to say it and survive politically?

    Come to think of it, maybe Graham's statement will turn out to be the crack in the dike that the flood begins at?

    Why do I feel like that would be too much to hope for?

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    kudos to Fox News for running this one (none / 0) (#72)
    by Edger on Mon Dec 25, 2006 at 07:27:09 AM EST
    No Goode: Congressman's Hateful Comments Demand Response
    Sunday, December 24, 2006 By Susan Estrich
    FOX NEWS
    Where in the Bible does Mr. Goode find his basis for such hatred? And how in the world does Mr. Goode think we will ever fight terrorism, especially terrorism by Muslims, if we do not have the support, cooperation and trust of leaders in the Muslim community?

    If we are viewed, at the highest levels, as damning all those who believe in the Koran, who will take our side? Don't we want to encourage Muslims to believe in the political process and participate in it?
    .....
    Merry Christmas Mr. Goode. Perhaps you'll take some time to open that Bible of yours, instead of using it as a weapon of hate. And when you do, you might learn something about how to treat a new colleague who, like you, is ready to pledge on all that is holy to him to uphold our Constitution and laws.



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    This is where the Christian Right is at... (none / 0) (#74)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Mon Dec 25, 2006 at 09:34:27 AM EST
    Faith-Based Killing

    As Clive Thompson noted in Wired, "the ultimate, and gorgeous, irony of this game," seems to be that fans of the Left Behind franchise "are apparently more worried about simulated violence in video games than about believing an actual prophecy of the future -- endorsed by their spiritual leaders -- in which their friendly Jewish, Islamic and atheist neighbors have their tongues dissolved in screaming agony by a fire-eyed Jesus."

    James Dobson gets off on that stuff...

    The game has fans in the conservative evangelical community. A reviewer writing for Plugged In Online, part of the conservative group Focus on the Family, calls "Left Behind: Eternal Forces "the kind of game that Mom and Dad can actually play with Junior -- and use to raise some interesting questions along the way. Production company Left Behind Games is pushing it as an evangelism tool for teens, and I can see that, too. You certainly don't have to be an eschatologically minded seminarian to appreciate it."

    And now a word from our sponsor (Satan):

    Simpson and other groups are calling for retail giant Wal-Mart to stop selling the game. Wal-Mart has rejected that call.

    "We chose store locations where we anticipated customer demand for the product, and the product has been selling in those stores," the retail chain says in a statement. "As always, the decision on what merchandise we offer in our stores is based on what we think our customers want the opportunity to buy."
    WALMART (none / 0) (#75)
    by Edger on Mon Dec 25, 2006 at 10:21:08 AM EST
    "As always, the decision on what merchandise we offer in our stores is based on what we think our customers want the opportunity to buy."

    When is Walmart going to start selling sex and drugs and booze?

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    Keith Ellison Reacts to Virgil Goode's Muslim Comments | 75 comments (75 topical)

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