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Pardons and Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Thu Dec 12, 2024 at 07:50:32 PM EST
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I'm sorry I am so late with this new open thread. I had to get a few stitches in my eyebrow (don't ask!). Anyway, I haven't seen the news other than a headline Joe Biden granted 1,500 pardons. I not only support them, whoever they are, I support Hunter Biden's pardon.

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    Hope you feel better, Jeralyn. (5.00 / 5) (#1)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Dec 13, 2024 at 02:50:36 AM EST
    I was visiting Elder Daughter in Honolulu, and I just had surgery on my right hand earlier this week after getting bit badly by a neighbor's French bulldog that my 3-year-old grandson (who's non-verbal autistic) was annoying. The dog turned on him and when I stuck my hand out to prevent him from biting the boy, he bit me instead - really hard - because I got in the way.

    I'm so lucky he didn't rip any tendons, but I have two 1-inch gashes between my thumb and pointer finger, one on either side of my hand. I was supposed to return to Hilo on Monday but I've had to stay for a few days. I'm flying back home tomorrow night.

    I'll be coming back to Honolulu on Christmas Eve to see the surgeon, who's an orthopedic hand specialist, so he can make sure it's healing properly. We don't have any similar specialist in Hilo. I was lucky he was on duty that night at The Queen's Medical Center when I showed up in the hospital ER on Sunday evening. It took him about 90 minutes to sew everything back together, and he's been great on follow-up.

    It wasn't the dog's fault, as I reassured the neighbor, because my grandson can be a little demon and was clearly teasing him. That dog just clamped down hard and didn't let go, and my hand ripped open when I instinctively pulled away. He's actually a good dog. But as we now learned, he's incompatible with my autistic grandson, who has trouble respecting boundaries, animal and human alike.

    Oh, well. Could've been worse. It hurt like hell a couple days ago, but it's much better now. And for another week or so, I'm a one-handed typist. Good thing I'm left-handed.

    Aloha.

    Not 1500 "pardons," exactly, but rather (5.00 / 3) (#2)
    by Peter G on Fri Dec 13, 2024 at 08:40:17 AM EST
    a grant of 39 pardons and almost 1500 commutations of long sentences of federal prisoners who had already been transferred to home confinement for more than a year (almost three years in some cases) on the authority of the CARES Act, to reduce prison overcrowding during the COVID pandemic. The effect of the commutations is to protect those individuals from being sent back to prison when they had demonstrated successful re-integration during the emergency program. Nearly all of them will now have a further period of "supervised release" (akin to probation or parole) for several years. One of those on the list was a client of mine. He got a 20-year mandatory minimum sentence in a drug case over 12 years ago that would be 15 (still excessive) if imposed today, has been on special CARES Act home confinement now for nearly three years, has established a business, rejoined his family, etc. Would be cruel to make him return to prison for no good reason, just because the risk of Covid spreading in institutions is now so much lower.

    But we know that... (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Jack E Lope on Fri Dec 13, 2024 at 02:21:06 PM EST
    ...the right-wing talking point will be "1500 PARDONS!"

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    Don't get me started on the pardons (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by Peter G on Fri Dec 13, 2024 at 04:13:41 PM EST
    that Tr*mp granted at the end of his first term, or the process by which they were approved.

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    Ahhhh..commutations (5.00 / 3) (#15)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Dec 20, 2024 at 12:02:48 PM EST
    That's what I get for not checking with the attorneys lol. I'm much better with commutations. Could we get Biden to pardon Martha Stewart though? I have always admired her. Her baking cookbook is my baking bible. Can't do without it. She always inspires me too.

    Watched her new Netflix documentary, and James Comey went after her the same way he did Hillary. What a rotten bastard behind that staid demeanor and very appropriate language and emotional inflection. He seems to have a type - that he hates - blonde, attractive, highly accomplished, not bending the knee to male dominance.

    She cannot be a CEO now. Her company suffered horribly once she was no longer at the helm. It's crap. And they threw her in a fed hole when she was imprisoned. Two normally dressed women when she was first incarcerated that she saw when she was on a morning walk, she stopped to say something about how nice the morning was or something and her hand brushed a chain that was at one woman's side. Guess it was attached to keys. She didn't even know they were guards. Tossed her into isolation. Just incredible.

    She refused to waste time though while she was there. She ended up mentoring other inmates in starting their own businesses. The woman didn't waste a single minute on burning daylight while she was incarcerated, and she has some words to share on the state of incarceration in our country. I admire her even more than I did before.

    Pardon Martha Joe! She ran a solid company, it wasn't all smoke and mirrors like so many others are when the market gets tough, I guess there are some mirrors around and if Snoop is about there might be some smoke lol, but she's solid man in making stuff work. Pardon Martha, Comey hunted her like he did Hillary.


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    Ha (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Dec 20, 2024 at 03:34:49 PM EST
    I watched that documentary too. Enjoyed it very much. Martha definitely made the best of a bad situation. I now watch her on You Tube. Been thinking about you but trying to stay off X these days. Nothing good comes from that place especially now that our overlord is running the country.

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    True Story (none / 0) (#17)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Dec 20, 2024 at 05:05:38 PM EST
    Nothing good comes from that place lol.

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    Hay, Amanda Knox has a podcast now (none / 0) (#18)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Dec 20, 2024 at 10:08:25 PM EST
    Just a bit off the hook. Discussing false confessions. She has solid experts too conversing on how this happens. She just rips the bandaid off on cops are benevolent. It is like finally understanding some things like you eventually do if you participate at Talkleft for awhile, but no lube for the gentle "I want it to be this way so it is" lamb souls voting for and supporting lamb eaters.

    It is a shut the fuck up Friday ad on steroids with experts.

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    I love (5.00 / 3) (#3)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Dec 13, 2024 at 11:49:29 AM EST
    he pardoned Hunter.  

    I was in my backyard weeding this evening (5.00 / 8) (#7)
    by vml68 on Fri Dec 13, 2024 at 09:39:58 PM EST
    when I heard what sounded like a really loud squeaky wheel. I looked up and a few feet away from me, sitting in a pine tree was a pair of bald eagles. Made my day!

    There has been talk (none / 0) (#6)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Dec 13, 2024 at 06:35:26 PM EST
    of him giving preemptive pardons to people like the J6 committee members,  I think one even suggested it. Thompson?

    I'm not sure that a great idea.
    They did nothing wrong.  I don't believe they can be successfully prosecuted.

    And I think the right would love a bunch of preemptive pardons,  even if they might be deserved.

    Under ordinary circumstances (5.00 / 3) (#8)
    by KeysDan on Sat Dec 14, 2024 at 11:29:33 AM EST
    and in ordinary times  a preemptive pardon would seem defensive and unnecessary. But, there is nothing ordinary here or such questions would not even arise.

    It appears that destructive intentions such as downgrading or eliminating agencies and programs such as the FBI, SEC and FDIC will need the cover of flashy retribution.

    Protective pardons should be granted to a swipe of individuals who may be alleged to have violated any law or regulation in the reporting on, writing about, and/or investigating of,  the insurrection of January 6, 2021, all events leading up to and following such insurrection, including all components of the Executive, Legislative and Judicial  branches of the federal government.

    The pardon should "flood the zone" in keeping with the Pardon of January 21, 1977 in which Jimmy Carter granted an unconditional, blanket pardon to hundreds of thousands who may have committed any offense of the Military Service Act from August 4, 1964 to March 28, 1973.   President  Carter intended to put an end to the bad feelings that related to the Viet Nam war.

    Worrying about the reaction of Trump and his Republican sycophants is a battle lost right off the bat.  Whatever is done or not done will be subject to the lie machine.

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    Not everyone agrees (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Dec 14, 2024 at 03:36:24 PM EST

    Bill Clinton indicates he hopes Biden doesn't issue preemptive pardons

    Clinton emphasized that he does not believe any potential charges from the incoming Trump administration brought against Hillary Clinton would be valid, arguing that she did not do anything wrong with her handling of emails during her time at the State Department -- a controversy which became a flashpoint late in the 2016 election cycle.



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    The purpose of those threats is not (5.00 / 5) (#10)
    by Peter G on Sat Dec 14, 2024 at 03:42:47 PM EST
    to actually prosecute those people, but to harass them and force them to spend/waste a lot of money on lawyers. There is no plausible, good faith basis for any prosecution, and no one in America can be "put in jail" except through criminal prosecution. A pre-emptive pardon would seemingly protect them against this oppression and harassment. Although I hate the idea of taking those bullying threats even halfway seriously.

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    There is (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Dec 14, 2024 at 04:02:21 PM EST
    the argument that it won't stop Trump's justice department anyway. I have mixed feelings about this. What i would say is issue generic pardons to departments but not individuals. And I agree with Bill that Hillary would beat any charge and she has the money to fight. However there are a lot of low level employees he could bankrupt. Those are the people I am concerned about.

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    Maybe (none / 0) (#12)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Dec 14, 2024 at 04:39:08 PM EST
    Means tested pardons

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    Maybe there should be (none / 0) (#13)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Dec 14, 2024 at 04:41:56 PM EST
    a push to raise money for a defense slush fund.

    I'm sure the response would be huge.

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    In addition (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by KeysDan on Sat Dec 14, 2024 at 05:08:07 PM EST
    to resource expenditure, investigations, indictments (and show trails), cause the expenditure of time and may inflict great stress and anxiety. While pardons eliminate a major concern, but if intent on harassment, Trump can deploy political means against businesses or IRS audits. But, criminal investigations of political enemies would be better for detraction and as raw meat for his followers. And, to intimidate criticism in the future.

    While a civil case, ABC settled a defamation case  brought by Trump for $15 million for a "presidential foundation and museum" plus $1 million for Trump's attorney fees.

     This settlement stems from an interview by George Stephanopoulos where he said that Trump was found liable for raping E. Jean Carroll. (the jury found Trump liable for sexual abuse, although the judge clarified it was rape.)

      Truth is the best defense against defamation, but settlements are often made to avoid the headaches of trial (or, possibly, in the ABC case, for political reasons).

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    He's gonna have to do something about (none / 0) (#19)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Dec 20, 2024 at 10:16:49 PM EST
    Milley, the Vindmans, probably Kelly

    It is a strange telling of the depth that being a functional American is - born in and into this country and raised in it, and to dislike John  Kelly as much as I do on a certain level - to say, "No, Trump doesn't get to go after Kelly. That's not who we are."

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    Hey (5.00 / 3) (#20)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Dec 21, 2024 at 09:12:54 AM EST
    Nice to see you

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    You, (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by KeysDan on Sat Dec 21, 2024 at 10:59:07 AM EST
    too.

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    Commutation of death sentences (none / 0) (#22)
    by Peter G on Mon Dec 23, 2024 at 02:06:08 PM EST
    I am puzzling over President Biden's and his advisers' reasoning or moral line-drawing that leaves the death sentence in place for Jahar Tsarnaev, who was clearly less culpable in the Boston Marathon bombing than his late brother, for Robert Bowers, who killed 11 at the Tree of Life Synagogue in Pittsburgh, and for Dylann Roof, who killed 9 at the Mother Emmanuel Church in Charleston, while commuting the death sentence of Kaboni Savage (the only one of the 37 others whose case I am pretty familiar with, as it was local, quite notorious, and I know a number of the lawyers). Savage (his real name!) was a psychopathic drug kingpin who killed (or ordered the killing of) 12 people he perceived to be rivals or "snitches," including the firebombing of a "snitch"'s home that killed four children and two adults. How is the "aggravating circumstance" of terrorism or hate crime motivation assessed as categorically "worse"?
      And speaking of moral reasoning, my wife declined to be appointed to represent a government witness against Savage, because she felt should could not be part of an effort to obtain a capital verdict against him (or anyone). I, on the other hand, did agree to convey to the FBI information against Savage (that he had and was using a contraband cell phone) for the benefit of an existing client who was in the same jail with him.

    Still some good (none / 0) (#23)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Dec 23, 2024 at 02:37:13 PM EST

    Biden Commutes Sentences of 37 Death Row Inmates
    December 23, 2024 at 6:31 am EST By Taegan Goddard 60 Comments

    "President Biden, citing moral and policy objections to capital punishment, said he was commuting the death sentences of 37 inmates Monday, a move that prevents President-elect Donald Trump from executing most men on federal death row," the Wall Street Journal reports.

    Said Biden: "Make no mistake: I condemn these murderers, grieve for the victims of their despicable acts, and ache for all the families who have suffered unimaginable and irreparable loss."

    But, citing his early experience as a public defender as well as decades in federal office: "I am more convinced than ever that we must stop the use of the death penalty at the federal level. In good conscience, I cannot stand back and let a new administration resume executions that I halted."



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