Trump and Elon Musk: Policy at Home and Abroad

By Jeralyn, Section Trump Administration
Posted on Sun Feb 16, 2025 at 07:04:43 PM EST
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This is an open thread for all things related to Donald Trump's second administration, including Elon Musk, his non-elected co-leader, and Stephen Miller, who holds the keys to the non-governmental lawyers he hired to write all the memoranda and policy .

I think everyone's head is spinning from the speed at which his (often bizarre) announcements come. Every time I've started writing one up, he's done something else that warrants public awareness and all go unfinished. But everyone who reads this site is well aware of Trump's actions, from announcing his intent for the U.S. to take over Gaza and opening a tent area at Gitmo to house undocumented immigrants with criminal records and orders of removal, to his cabinet, agency and Ambassador appointments, and his pardons. I really don't need to spell them out.

Shorter version: The U.S. is now being run by a bunch of billionaires with no political experience.

This is an open thread on all Trump 2 related topics.

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Trump and Elon Musk: Policy at Home and Abroad | 37 comments (37 topical)

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Zelenskyy is in a bad place.. (5.00 / 2) (#5)
by desertswine on Mon Feb 17, 2025 at 09:49:24 PM EST

Trump and Putin are about to carve up Ukraine like a stuffed turkey. As Putin stabs him in the front, the US is about to stab him in the back.

Today the orange menace is falsely blaming (5.00 / 3) (#8)
by desertswine on Wed Feb 19, 2025 at 10:22:36 AM EST

Ukraine for "starting" its war with Russia. He is still, above all, a Russian operative.


: By his logic, (none / 0) (#10)
by Chuck0 on Wed Feb 19, 2025 at 05:04:56 PM EST

the US started the war with Japan because FDR wouldn't make a deal and give Hawaii to the Japanese.

I am (none / 0) (#6)
by Ga6thDem on Tue Feb 18, 2025 at 08:52:36 AM EST

hoping that Europe will step up. Macron has called an emergency meeting of NATO leaving Trump out of the loop.


NATO should expel the US (5.00 / 1) (#7)
by Chuck0 on Tue Feb 18, 2025 at 12:17:36 PM EST

Beat the orange felon to the punch. Makes it easier to declare a state of war.


: Now would be the time to strike. (none / 0) (#15)
by Chuck0 on Thu Feb 20, 2025 at 12:03:04 PM EST

The US government is in chaos. Hegseth has announced he's firing many top generals and admirals. There will be a big leadership vacuum within the military.
I think NATO could take the US in short order. They have a northern land front from which to operate (Canada). I would be surprised if they couldn't get cooperation from Mexico. That would force the US into a war with two fronts.
Fighting on two fronts didn't work out too well for Nazi Germany. Considering the US now mirrors 1936 Germany, it would be pure schadenfreude.

This is great (5.00 / 2) (#18)
by CaptHowdy on Fri Feb 21, 2025 at 03:58:28 PM EST

sort of
I mean, French Nazis are like, no thanks.

Jordan Bardella, the leader of France's far-right National Rally party, abruptly canceled his Conservative Political Action Conference speech that was scheduled for Friday, citing the Nazi salute that Trump ally Steve Bannon made on stage the night before.

: They (none / 0) (#19)
by FlJoe on Fri Feb 21, 2025 at 05:09:05 PM EST

are not even trying to hide it any more.

Stop saying "unprecedented" (5.00 / 1) (#22)
by Chuck0 on Sun Feb 23, 2025 at 06:18:36 PM EST

What is happening now is not unprecedented. What is happening is illegal, immoral and corrupt at its core. I swear the next time I hear unprecedented on TV, I'm going to shoot the TV.

So I call (5.00 / 1) (#33)
by Ga6thDem on Mon Feb 24, 2025 at 02:07:32 PM EST

my worthless or less than worthless senators everyday Tillis and Budd. Today I am so sick of the crap show that I told both of them they needed to quit being eunuchs in the court of Donald Trump.

Major (to me) issue before the Supreme Court (none / 0) (#1)
by jmacWA on Mon Feb 17, 2025 at 07:35:34 AM EST

See Lyle Denniston's post for details.

I'd appreciate hearing the views of some of the lawyers on this site. If the court finds in Trump's favor on this it seems to me like game over, and I do not trust the Roberts court to go against Trump; IMO such a ruling would crown him king (in his own mind at least).

I agree it's a major issue, but (5.00 / 1) (#2)
by Peter G on Mon Feb 17, 2025 at 11:52:37 AM EST

for the reasons explained by Lyle and by Georgetown Law Prof. Steve Vladeck, the Supreme Court is (a) not especially likely to rule on the merits of the case (since the government appealed prematurely); and (b) if they do reach the merits, the legal argument in support of Tr*mp's authority to summarily fire this particular official is much stronger than the argument for most of his other recent actions that have been challenged in court, so even if the Administration wins this particular case it does not set much of a precedent in support of his other autocratic actions.


Thanks (none / 0) (#3)
by jmacWA on Mon Feb 17, 2025 at 03:39:23 PM EST

I worry that if Trump prevails in this he will be proclaiming victory and that he cannot be stopped by the courts. My fear is that he will get his supporters so riled up that it will be hard to get anyone to go against him... Expecting the Republican congress to do anything is foolhardy IMO, and it wont take much to get the 4 biggest toadies on the court to say they can't step in.

Hopefully you're right and Roberts will reject this because the appeal was too quick.


Precedent may not be a concern... (none / 0) (#9)
by Jack E Lope on Wed Feb 19, 2025 at 01:59:49 PM EST

...for someone whose base does not understand precedent. (And whose base is suspicious of anything they don't understand.)

He only has to play to the headline description of the case. Most of the public thinks that the 34 convictions were for paying a prawn star, and has no recall of anything about falsifying records.


Misdemeanors elevated to felonies (1.00 / 1) (#12)
by MSimon on Thu Feb 20, 2025 at 02:21:39 AM EST

Misdemeanors (book keeping errors) elevated to felonies smacks of lawfare. On top of that the predicate crime turning those errors into felonies was not specified at trial (pick anyone of three, don't specify which) is a huge error. It will be overturned on appeal.


: This topic was discussed at length (5.00 / 6) (#17)
by Peter G on Thu Feb 20, 2025 at 12:15:02 PM EST

on this blog back in May 2024 at the time of the NYC convictions, and the assertion that you are making was thoroughly analyzed and debunked at that time.

Thanks for (none / 0) (#4)
by Coral on Mon Feb 17, 2025 at 06:33:14 PM EST

the link. I am having trouble keeping up with gorgon's head of catastrophes that have been set off since Jan 20.

This one had escaped my notice -- not the name, but the import.


Trump Is Continuing the Drug War (none / 0) (#11)
by MSimon on Thu Feb 20, 2025 at 02:12:04 AM EST

There is an iron clad case against the Drug War - presented below. Why doesn't the left use it?

The main cause of addiction in America is abused child PTSD with military service PTSD coming in second. Dr. Lonny Shavelson in his book "Hooked" said that 70% of female heroin addicts had been sexually abused in childhood. We are making war on abused children and disabled vets. And then there is science. Addiction is a symptom of PTSD says Nobel Prize Winner in Medicine Eric Kandel in his book, "The Disordered Mind." Receptor science (100+ years old) says there are NO addictive drugs. Drugs fill receptors. What empties receptors (injury, PTSD) causes a desire for pain relieving drugs. Drugs CAN'T cause addiction. People take pain relievers to relieve pain. So, the Trump Strategy is to make war on people in pain to make them give up pain relief. Is that gonna work? For over 100 years - it hasn't.

https://powerandcontrol.blogspot.com/2025/02/in-over-100-years-nobody-said-thing.html

The (none / 0) (#13)
by FlJoe on Thu Feb 20, 2025 at 08:45:26 AM EST

man who would be king

The White House's official social media account on the X platform posted an image of President Donald Trump wearing a crown and referred to him as "king."

PFFT... (none / 0) (#14)
by jmacWA on Thu Feb 20, 2025 at 09:29:18 AM EST

It's worse than that Trump declares himself king

"CONGESTION PRICING IS DEAD. Manhattan, and all of New York, is SAVED." Trump wrote, adding, "LONG LIVE THE KING!"


: No more American citizens, just subjects who (none / 0) (#16)
by vml68 on Thu Feb 20, 2025 at 12:09:03 PM EST

will have to pay allegiance to the crown/clown instead of the Constitution.

RAH RAH MUSKputin (none / 0) (#20)
by CaptHowdy on Sat Feb 22, 2025 at 08:31:53 AM EST

lover of the Russian scene

Happy Saturday. This bouncer from the 70s just seems strangely relevant

Hmmmmm (none / 0) (#21)
by CaptHowdy on Sun Feb 23, 2025 at 06:06:09 PM EST

James Carville told Mediaite that the Trump administration would "collapse" within 30 days and advised Democrats to sit back and let it happen.
Said Carville: "What I have said very publicly is that Democrats need to play possum. This whole thing is collapsing. It doesn't need Elizabeth Warren and somebody screaming to pacify some progressive advocacy groups in Washington, which, by the way, I wish these people were just useless. They're actually worse than useless, that they're detrimental. And they never, ever learn to shut up."
He added: "I believe that this administration, in less than 30 days is in the midst of a massive collapse and particularly a collapse in public opinion."
More: "It's going to be easy pickings here in six weeks. Just lay back."

Honestly I just disagree with the timeline. It could take longer. But I'm starting to think Carville might be on to something

The general consensus (5.00 / 1) (#31)
by Ga6thDem on Mon Feb 24, 2025 at 01:58:08 PM EST

seems to be that the worm is beginning to turn and that's not just Carville. It's people like Timothy Snyder and Heather Cox Richardson hardly the beacons of light these days.

He is right about those groups. They do nothing to help win and everything to help lose. Warren screaming might tend to take the focus off of the Musk/Trump disaster. When Musk is ticking off Trumpy WV it's something to watch.

I certainly hope he is right because 1 month has been too much already. I had estimated 6 months but the numbers are going down faster than I expected.


Sitting (none / 0) (#23)
by FlJoe on Sun Feb 23, 2025 at 06:18:48 PM EST

back, shutting up and smoking a big bowl of hopium seems like a dangerous strategy.


: I don't think that's all anyone is doing (none / 0) (#27)
by CaptHowdy on Mon Feb 24, 2025 at 07:50:24 AM EST

but it's a fair point that progressives should learn to not interfere when Republicans are committing suicide.

Well, the 30 days has come and gone. (none / 0) (#24)
by Chuck0 on Sun Feb 23, 2025 at 06:22:54 PM EST

And the six weeks mark is coming soon.

It will take six months, at least, for this administration to collapse. Or for a real insurrection to begin. It may be both.

I've been telling everyone I know that things are going to get very bad in this country. The MAGAts are emboldened, believing they are untouchable and do unspeakable things to people they don't like. And right now the left seems to be cowering. But, eventually something is going to pop, something very violent and that will be a catalyst for widespread action.


I (none / 0) (#25)
by FlJoe on Sun Feb 23, 2025 at 06:59:19 PM EST

think he meant 30 days from now, we will always be one "Freidman unit" away from salvation.


Just heard on Morning Joe (none / 0) (#26)
by CaptHowdy on Mon Feb 24, 2025 at 07:48:02 AM EST

Warren Buffett is telling shareholders in his yearly letter to horde cash and avoid the markets.


That's exactly what I'm doing. (none / 0) (#34)
by Chuck0 on Mon Feb 24, 2025 at 03:07:06 PM EST

Moving from stocks and mutual funds to aMiney fund and bonds


: Money market fund. (none / 0) (#35)
by Chuck0 on Mon Feb 24, 2025 at 03:07:34 PM EST

Of course (none / 0) (#28)
by KeysDan on Mon Feb 24, 2025 at 10:29:53 AM EST

we want Carville's prediction to come true, and I agree on the strategy of doing nothing to help these Nazi's out provided the "nothing" means no "finding common ground", or "bipartisanship", or "reaching across the aisle". Fundamentally, the only effective strategy is likely to be that the Democratic Party becomes the party of no.

The fascists control the House, Senate, Executive Branch and Supreme Court. Governance is their job; budget and debt ceiling are up to them, to sink or swim. No bailing them out, as bad as that may be for any concerned and thinking American.

Senators Warren, AOC, Bernie, Chris Murphy, and others are not interfering with this strategy by speaking out. Democrats need to call out Trump, Musk , and the pathetic Cabinet members at every turn. The Democratic electorate needs it and the Trumpists don't want it. Speaking out is necessary to keep the focus on the crazy, lazy President and his detractions and deflections from his mess.


Coming Close to My Views? (none / 0) (#29)
by RickyJim on Mon Feb 24, 2025 at 01:11:02 PM EST

The fascists control the House, Senate, Executive Branch and Supreme Court. Governance is their job; budget and debt ceiling are up to them, to sink or swim.

And the reason this has happened is the 2 party system that has grown up as sanctified by the 1787 Constitution/Holy Writ. What you point out is that letting a single party/faction dictate who runs the legislative, executive and judicial branches destroys any effective checks and balances.


The two-party system is not "sanctioned" (5.00 / 3) (#30)
by Peter G on Mon Feb 24, 2025 at 01:46:15 PM EST

by the Constitution. Parties are not mentioned or presumed in that document. In fact, the Founders considered the two-party system (which they referred to as "factions") to be a danger to the system of democratic republicanism that they had devised.


Not "sanctified," I meant, (none / 0) (#36)
by Peter G on Mon Feb 24, 2025 at 04:10:30 PM EST

not "sanctioned"


But Today it is Considered Sacred by Most (none / 0) (#37)
by RickyJim on Mon Feb 24, 2025 at 10:38:40 PM EST

What Jefferson wrote in 1816 describes the current national attitude,

Some men look at constitutions with sanctimonious reverence and deem them like the ark of the covenant, too sacred to be touched. They ascribe to the men of the preceding age a wisdom more than human, and suppose what they did to be beyond amendment.

The failure of Madison, Hamilton, Jay and the other Constitution writers to explicitly rule out letting a single party/faction dominate the government has given us the present dangerous situation. Of course it was almost impossible to foresee, but I think there is no reason for us to be stuck with a document that long passed its use by date. Would you want current medical practice to be based only on what was known in 1787?

Three important things that the world has learned since 1787 about governance are:

Elections resulting in proportional representation are much better than winner take all elections.
An elite "electoral college" that picks the presidential candidates, followed by a popular vote, is a better way than letting each party pick a single candidate and then let the electoral college decide on the winner.
A civil service meritocracy is a way to get a judiciary that is independent of politics.

Of course they messed up other things like having nothing explicit about setting up a way to overrule executive orders and giving unlimited pardon power to the president. Every day Trump points out their failures.


I think (none / 0) (#32)
by Ga6thDem on Mon Feb 24, 2025 at 02:05:57 PM EST

playing possum means not going along with anything the GOP wants. The GOP comes begging and they get nothing.

I really have not seen anybody saying anything unwise so far. Bernie is doing another round of rallies. Whether that actually helps or not I don't know. So far at least the comments seem aimed at millionaires running the country, the rule of law and the constitution.
