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Limbaugh Auctions Senate Letter

The winning bid in a charity auction of the original "smear letter" that 41 senators sent to the CEO of Clear Channel, criticizing Rush Limbaugh's reference to "phony soldiers," was $2,100,100. Limbaugh auctioned off the "smear letter" to benefit a charity of his choosing, while promising to match the bid out of his own pocket. The recipient nonprofit: the Marine Corps-Law Enforcement Foundation Inc.

Mr. Limbaugh is a director of the organization, which had total revenues of $5.2 million last year.

Harry Reid wrote the letter. His take on the auction:

Reid did a clever thing right back. He went on the Senate floor and praised Limbaugh's attempt to raise money for a good cause off his letter and said he could have gotten every Democratic senator's signature if he'd had time.

Who would pay to support Limbaugh's assertion that the letter was a "smear," when it is in fact Limbaugh who smears soldiers who speak out against the war? Reports differ. This is the NY Times:

The letter was bought by the Eugene B. Casey Foundation, a $294 million foundation in Gaithersburg, Md., that has given money to a wide variety of organizations, including the Washington Opera and the Intrepid Fallen Heroes Fund. In a statement, the foundation said its purchase of the letter was intended to demonstrate its belief in freedom of speech and “to support Rush Limbaugh, his views and his continuing education of us.”

The Washington Post suggests that Betty Brown Casey bought it personally.

This is interesting:

Marcus S. Owens, a lawyer who headed the Internal Revenue Service division that oversees charities and foundations, said the Casey foundation might incur taxes on its purchase because it would have difficulty demonstrating that buying the letter furthered a charitable purpose. “They’d have to establish the link between the transfer of money for that letter and promoting free speech,” Mr. Owens said, “and that’s going to be tough.”
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    there is no matter of (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by cpinva on Sat Oct 20, 2007 at 08:07:07 PM EST
    interpretation, nor is there any confusion. the fact is, limbaugh quite clearly refered to "phony soldiers", plural. it's there in the transcript, it's on the audio and video. that you refuse to believe your lyin' eyes and ears is a personal problem robrecht, but it has absolutely no bearing on the facts.

    jerry, i believe the tax issue would stem from the purchase being considered an "unrelated business" activity of the charity. as a consequence, the funds used to make the purchase would then be treated as taxable as well.

    if they give it away, they're limited in how much they can deduct, as a charitable contribution, based on taxable income before the deduction (a 10% ceiling, for C Corps).

    i'm assuming that's what he's talking about.

    Exactly ... (none / 0) (#10)
    by robrecht on Sun Oct 21, 2007 at 12:02:20 AM EST
    ... what personal problems of mine are you trying to discuss here?

    Parent
    NOT about Limbaugh (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by paulnashtn on Sat Oct 20, 2007 at 09:56:24 PM EST
    This is all about the actions of Harry Reid and the 41 senators --  

    Exactly! (none / 0) (#9)
    by robrecht on Sun Oct 21, 2007 at 12:00:49 AM EST
    Don't confuse interpretation with fact. (1.00 / 1) (#2)
    by robrecht on Sat Oct 20, 2007 at 06:16:32 PM EST
    Who would pay to support Limbaugh's assertion that the letter was a "smear," when it is in fact Limbaugh who smears soldiers who speak out against the war?

    Someone who is unconvinced of MediaMatters' forced interpretation of Limbaugh's "phony soldiers" remark.  Don't confuse interpretation with fact.

    We have debated this before (none / 0) (#4)
    by Molly Bloom on Sat Oct 20, 2007 at 07:30:35 PM EST
    your interpretation is  just as forced or more forced. You have to reach back a day and reach much further along in the conversation and then thread it all together.

    You've never addressed the fact that Limbaugh's own defense of himself relies on a doctored taped of his own show. Why would Limbaugh find that necessary, if his context was so clear?  

    Media Matters interpretation (and mine) relies on the context of the immediate conversation.

    Bottom Line: Limbaugh doubts the caller is a solider (or even a Republican) merely because the caller says he does not support the Iraq war and the reference to phony solider is clearly to that caller.

    The simplest explanation is usually the correct one.

    Parent

    I'm surprised you still want to argue about this (none / 0) (#8)
    by robrecht on Sat Oct 20, 2007 at 11:59:14 PM EST
    It's not really 'my interpretation', it's just Limbaugh's own explanation of the meaning of his own words, which does indeed seem plausible to me and others.  

    Limbaugh himself refered back to the previous day's discussion of fake soldiers shortly after the comment in question about phony soldiers, immediately after he got off the phone with Mike O, and read again from his previous day's story about the fake soldier, Jesse Macbeth.  MediaMatters left that completely out of their partial transcript.  

    Instead MediaMatters reached back much further and immediately inserted 6 paragraphs about the seven soldiers who wrote the August 29th editorial in the NYT.  Was that part of the immediate context? Who knows, maybe the caller and Rush were thinking about these soldiers, but there's nothing in their conversation about this.

    When you say "much further along in the conversation," do you really know how much later it was?  What was it, something like a minute and a half?  During which time Mike C was going on about WMDs and Limbaugh was trying to tell him that was a moot point.  So immediately after Limbaugh dismisses Mike C, he goes back to the topic of "fake soldiers" and re-reads a segment of his previous day's story about Jesse Macbeth, one of the "Phony War Vets" and "phony heroes" discussed on ABC News the night before.

    The part Limbaugh left out of his tape or transcript contained no relevant material to support MediaMatters' interpretation of Limbaugh's words, but I completely agree that it hurts his credibility (if he has any) that he left it out and only later explained that he had cut extraneous material "for space and relevance reasons."  It's really hard to say if Limbaugh is more dishonest or more stupid.

    I actually think both Limbaugh's interpretation of his own words as well as yours are rather forced in part because neither can be proven.  You believe that Limbaugh's caller and he were using the term phony soliders to describe any solider, including Mike C, who opposes the Iraq war.  It's certainly possible that they have this in mind when they use the term, but it's not clearly indicated in the text that this is the case.  When you want to argue that it is, you actually confused the callers in your mind and say that Limbaugh was denying Mike C's claim that he proudly served 14 years in the military.  But Mike C did never made this claim--it was Mike O who made this claim.  Limbaugh was primarily doubting that Mike C was a Republican and Mike C only threw in toward the end that he also used to be military.  Limbaugh barely refers to this claim at all and again goes back to dispute his claim to be a Republican.  He does not acknowledge that Mike C was an Iraq soldier but a bad one because he opposes the Iraq war, he dismisses the factualness of Mike C's claim to be a Republican and that he used to be military.  In that regard, you claim Limbaugh is making a generalization about a particular case, but particular case is not the same as the generalization supposedly derived from it.  So your argument from the case of Mike C is flawed in two respects.

    Nonetheless, it's quite possible that you know what Limbaugh had in mind when he used the term "phony soldiers" but it's merely an interpretation.

    I think it's an unworthy distraction from the business of ending the Iraq war and I wish we had 41 Democratic senators, instead of 2, who were opposed to funding this insanity.

    Parent

    Now you got me doing it! ; ) (none / 0) (#11)
    by robrecht on Sun Oct 21, 2007 at 12:30:49 AM EST
    "Mike C" in Paragraph 4 above should be "Mike O".  Limbaugh thought Mike O's remarks about WMDs were unimportant to the present context and dismissed him and returned to the topic of "fake soldiers."  (It was also in part this moot tangent of Mike O's about WMDs that Limbaugh later edited out of the context.)

    Parent
    I am not revisiting our original argument (none / 0) (#12)
    by Molly Bloom on Sun Oct 21, 2007 at 08:14:04 AM EST
    I am not going to convince you or vice versa. I was merely pointing out you interpretation is also forced and ignores certain elements- the use of the plural, the fact he is cearly refering to caller 1, and of course, the doctored tape.

    That said, I will confess to confusing the 14 years of caller 2 versus the unstated number of years of caller 1. Its easy enough to do.

    Parent

    Everyone knows (1.00 / 0) (#13)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Oct 21, 2007 at 10:04:57 AM EST
    You believe that Limbaugh's caller and he were using the term phony soliders to describe any solider, including Mike C, who opposes the Iraq war.

    Which of course he wasn't, and anyone who has kept up with those who support or oppose the war, knows  without Harry Reid writing a letter with fake claims.

    The Demos are big on fake claims lately.

    In any event, this defines who the caller was talking about, and what Limbaugh agreed with.

    CALLER:  No, it's not.  And what's really funny is they never talk to real soldiers.  They pull these soldiers that come up out of the blue and spout to the media.

    RUSH:  The phony soldiers.

    CALLER:  Phony soldiers.  If you talk to any real soldier and they're proud to serve, they want to be over in Iraq, they understand their sacrifice and they're willing to sacrifice for the country.

    Link

    Limbaugh later brings in Macbeth, but the real gist is the above. Macbeth is just an example.

    Reid's letter was just a political stunt that backfired. The current crop of Demos deserve him.

    Parent

    But nor did you finish our original discussion (none / 0) (#14)
    by robrecht on Sun Oct 21, 2007 at 10:38:46 AM EST
    If you can effectively answer my critiques of your argument I will absolutely change my mind (I enjoy conceding points in fair and strong debate), but you left several points unanswered, some of which I repeated above.

    Also, as I pointed out earlier, Limbaugh's interpretation does not in any way ignore, nor have I ignored, the use of the plural "phony soldiers for Limbaugh discusses Jesse Macbeth only as one of the fake soldiers (plural):

    "Here is a Morning Update that we did recently [the day before], talking about fake soldiers. This is a story of who the left props up as heroes. They have their celebrities and one of them was Army Ranger Jesse MacBeth. Now, he was a "corporal." I say in quotes..."

    Likewise the ABC News report from the previous day and other media reports were also about fake, phony solders.

    The reference to Caller 1 is not as clear and unambiguous as you claim,

    - in part because you've now admitted that Caller 1 did not make any claim to be proud of 14 years of military service,

    -in part because his late reference to having been in the military was hardly central to the discussion,

    -in part because of Limbaugh did not accept his claim to having been military in the past so he cannot be referring to him as a bad soldier (phony soldier in your sense) but, if anything, as a fake soldier,

    -in part because you concede that this doesn't matter to you because it is still insulting--I agree that it would still be indirectly insulting but have to point out that this does in effect render your interpretation quite fuzzy and no longer unambiguously supports the interpretation of MediaMatters and Senator Reid,

    -in part because it is based on a completely improper generalization from Mike C as fake soldier to Mike C and other soldiers like him as bad soldiers who are real soldiers but phonies in a less literal sense.    

    Read again, I certainly did not ignore the doctored tape but completely agreed that it diminishes Limbaugh's credibility if he has any to begin with.

    Again, I enjoy conceding points in fair and strong debate because this establishes real learning but I cannot concede points if you are inaccurate about my points or if you cannot effectively answer identified flaws in your position.  Thanks.

    Parent

    The arguments about what (1.00 / 0) (#6)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Oct 20, 2007 at 09:21:20 PM EST
    Limbaugh did, or did not, mean is besides the point.

    He said what he said, and he clearly was putting some hard words of those who he believes are phony.

    That isn't an attack on the men and women of the US military.

    Reid put his golf shoes on and stepped on it when he decided to attack Limbaugh and was made to look foolish.

    Of course he could always ask Soros for a million or so to donate.

    Sure. Yeah. Uh-huh.

    Heh (none / 0) (#1)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Oct 20, 2007 at 05:27:32 PM EST
    Reid did a clever thing right back.

    That was the only thing he could do.

    Incur taxes, or just not get a tax deduction? (none / 0) (#3)
    by jerry on Sat Oct 20, 2007 at 06:24:49 PM EST
    How would they incur taxes on their purchase?  I can understand their not being to obtain a tax deduction, although I suspect they have enough money to get a argument made in their behalf.

    For tinfoil hat types, the charity it's going to was founded by James Kallstrom, formerly of the FBI TWA Flight 800 investigation.  You can google and read for weeks on the Flight 800, 9/11 connections, if you swing that way....