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Obama: Hillary Is Like Rudy

Some seem to like this type of campaigning. I think it is abhorrent:

While Rudy Giuliani may embrace Hillary Clinton's policy of not talking and saber rattling towards Iran, Barack Obama knows that policy is not working.

What can one say now. The Obama campaign is simply telling falsehoods now. I'll say this, Obama has certainly seen the light, he won't be ushering in a New Era of Politics after all.

This is gutter stuff. h/t Adam B.

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  • Display: Sort:
    The Audacity of Audacity? (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by andgarden on Fri Nov 02, 2007 at 09:48:52 PM EST


    Must Be (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by squeaky on Fri Nov 02, 2007 at 09:52:55 PM EST
    Getting desperate, reduced to clawing.

    ah, desperation in the morning! it smells like.... (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by cpinva on Sat Nov 03, 2007 at 03:29:29 AM EST
    ....................victory!

    keep telling yourself that jgarza, eventually you might even really believe it. if you really do believe it now, whoever you live or work with has my sympathies.

    yeppers, i am beginning to appreciate this much longer campaign period, however unintended, more and more. the opportunities for the weak to be outed, before being nominated, are far greater.

    that's a good thing.

    A friend of mine has this term. (1.00 / 1) (#3)
    by Jgarza on Sat Nov 03, 2007 at 02:56:10 AM EST
    Republican pearl clutching.  He uses it to describe the faux outrage about things like the General betray us ad.  I think i see a case of it here.  

    Then of course there is the false choice between a new kind of politics and the ability to point out differences between you and your opponent.  
    Obamas new politics has to do with his more ethical fund raising, and a pledge not to use personal attacks.

    Pointing out that Hillary and Guiliani have have similarities in the policy they would peruse with Iran, is not a personal attack.  As far is for what that similarity is, they both think saber rattling is an effective tool for diplomacy.

    Whats so disturbing about this sites role in the primary, is that it has come be more than support for one candidate, BTD and Jeralyn drank the Clinton camp cool-aid.  You can support a candidate without buying into the nonsense spewed but its PR campaign.

    BS (none / 0) (#5)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Nov 03, 2007 at 04:01:24 AM EST
    Rudy has Norman Pdhoretz as an advisor.

    Hillary's policy on Iran has no similarity, none, to Rudy's.

    You are repeating a lie.

    Parent

    That is hyperbole, BTD. (none / 0) (#6)
    by BlueLakeMichigan on Sat Nov 03, 2007 at 09:49:46 AM EST
    Plain and simple. Obama's campaign is not "telling falsehoods" about Clinton. HRC's policy on Iran, call the IRGC a terrorist organization, and certainly don't meet with their leaders without conditions, (Or maybe we should. Who knows?) well it just plays right into what the GOP wants, aggressive, perpetual Middle East warfare. That's what Rudy wants, what Bush wants, what Romney wants. (For today at least) And of all the Democrats, Sen. Clinton seems most willing to give to the neoconservatives exactly what they ask for.

    While Obama's missed vote on the IRGC is not to be ignored for sure, HRC's vote FOR calling a part of the Iranian military a terrorist organization is far more destructive to any efforts one could make at peaceful diplomacy with Iran and it really sets her apart, like her insistence that she can't take options off the table when dealing with Iran. These stances set her apart from the anti-war pack, in truth, and make her out to be more of the "pramagtist", the person not afraid of breaking some eggs to make some omelettes, and folks like Giuliani and his supporters would, if they were not in direct competition with HRC, give her high marks for her positions on Iran, or at least the original positions on Iran.

    Parent

    And taking options off the table on Iran? (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Nov 03, 2007 at 10:17:56 AM EST
    When did Obama start favoring THAT? Just in the last debate he said you can't.

    What the heck are you talking about?

    Parent

    This is too funny (none / 0) (#9)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Nov 03, 2007 at 10:16:41 AM EST
    So if I were to say Obama is like Rudy becuase he too belives the IRG should be designated a terrorist organization, that would be the truth?

    You Obama suipporters are simply hilarious. At this point, so are everyone's supporters.

    Except me apparently. I am the only one who seems tobe able to tell the truth about the people I support.

    My candidate is Dodd btw.

    Parent

    Been taking disengenuous (none / 0) (#11)
    by jondee on Sat Nov 03, 2007 at 10:28:32 AM EST
    lessons from ppj, BT?

    First off, Bill Burton made the statement. Secondly, the statement refered to a specific policy Rudy and her nibs held in common.

    Your post is deliberatly misleading and you know it.

    Your laughable "I am the only one.." proclamation of grandeur speaks for itself.

    Parent

    Then (none / 0) (#23)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Nov 03, 2007 at 10:44:10 AM EST
    Obama is Rudy.

    See my latest post.

    You are exposing yourself as well.

    Parent

    I await your diary condemning Dodd as 'disgusting' (none / 0) (#14)
    by Geekesque on Sat Nov 03, 2007 at 10:34:47 AM EST
    for making this statement:

    I cannot support the Kyl-Lieberman amendment on Iran. To do so could give this President a green light to act recklessly and endanger US national security.

    And I await your diary condemning Hillary Clinton for this:

    And I invite all of our colleagues to pass something immediately that makes it very clear he has no authority and we will not permit him to go take offensive action against Iran.

    Because you're the last honest man on the Internet and everything.

    Parent

    The reality is (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Nov 03, 2007 at 10:43:32 AM EST
    That Dodd is NOT proposing legislation, says clearly it does not provide LEGAL justification and SIGNED the letter.

    He did not make the political play, Obama did.

    IF you were not primary insane, you would know the difference.

    Parent

    It's true and it's not true. (none / 0) (#7)
    by Geekesque on Sat Nov 03, 2007 at 10:02:40 AM EST
    Are we talking about Clinton talking in front of an anti-war group or are we talking about Clinton giving a speech to AIPAC?  Because they're two different candidates.  

    Which Obama (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Nov 03, 2007 at 10:14:19 AM EST
    The one that sounds like Gary Bauer? Sam Brownback?

    It is a baldfaced lie in front of everyone.

    Of course you defend it. I expect nothing better from you anymore quite frankly. You and Adam B have sold your souls for a silly primary season.

    I did it myself once. I know what drives it.

    Parent

    Have you retracted your bizarre post about (none / 0) (#12)
    by Geekesque on Sat Nov 03, 2007 at 10:31:34 AM EST
    Obama's Iran legislation?

    Because, quite frankly, it was one of the most irrational and facially incorrect things you've ever written.

    Consider the comments from others in the field, and tell me why you went ballistic at Obama:

    MR. RUSSERT: Senator Dodd, you said that vote was a justification for war in Iran.

    SEN. DODD: Well, Tim, I believe that this issue is going to come back to haunt us. We all learned, some of us here painfully, back in 2002 that by voting for an authorization regarding Iraq, that despite the language of that resolution, which called for diplomacy at the time, this administration used that resolution, obviously, to pursue a very aggressive action in Iraq.  

    I'm very concerned that we're going to see those 76 votes come back, being waved in front of us here as a justification when the Bush administration decides to take military action in Iran.

    Also from Chris Dodd

    I cannot support the Kyl-Lieberman amendment on Iran. To do so could give this President a green light to act recklessly and endanger US national security.

    MR. RUSSERT: Senator Biden, do you agree with Senator Webb it was de facto a declaration of war?

    SEN. BIDEN: I think it can be used as a fact -- a declaration.

    And here's the kicker:

    SEN. CLINTON:  And I invite all of our colleagues to pass something immediately that makes it very clear he has no authority and we will not permit him to go take offensive action against Iran.

    You condemned Barack Obama for accepting Hillary Clinton's invitation.

    So, until you retract that diary, I can't take anything you say on the subject seriously.  

    After all, you sold your soul to promote Chris Dodd apparently.

    Parent

    Geek, when Obama spoke to AIPAC, (5.00 / 3) (#16)
    by Teresa on Sat Nov 03, 2007 at 10:36:31 AM EST
    he said all options are on the table, including military, regarding Iran and nuclear weapons. Does this compare him favorably to the mayor also?

    You seem to have lost all objectivity on Kos. It makes me glad that I haven't chosen a candidate in the primary yet because I don't have to try and twist everyone's words to make my candidate look better than yours.

    Parent

    It is obvious isn't it? (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Nov 03, 2007 at 10:42:00 AM EST
    Obama is Rudy.

    Parent
    Let me show you what Obama and Hillary to AIPAC (none / 0) (#21)
    by Geekesque on Sat Nov 03, 2007 at 10:42:53 AM EST
    about diplomacy.

    Obama:

    To prevent this worst-case scenario, we need the United States to lead tough-minded diplomacy.

    This includes direct engagement with Iran similar to the meetings we conducted with the Soviets at the height of the Cold War, laying out in clear terms our principles and interests. Tough-minded diplomacy would include real leverage through stronger sanctions. It would mean more determined U.S diplomacy at the United Nations. It would mean harnessing the collective power of our friends in Europe who are Iran's major trading partners. It would mean a cooperative strategy with Gulf States
    who supply Iran with much of the energy resources it needs. It would mean unifying those states to recognize the threat of Iran and increase pressure
    on Iran to suspend uranium enrichment. It would mean full implementation of U.S. sanctions laws. And over the long term, it would mean a focused
    approach from us to finally end the tyranny of oil, and develop our own alternative sources of energy to drive the price of oil down.

    He clearly thinks diplomacy is the solution.  And this is in front of AIPAC, mind you.

    Now, Clinton:

    And what do I mean by engagement or some kind of a process? Well I'm not sure anything positive would come out of it, I have no expectations whatsoever. But there are a number of factors that I think argue for some attempt to do what I am suggesting: number one I don't think we know enough about how Iranian society and their government really functions. I was struck by the rejection of the President's party in those recent elections. If we are having to pursue potential action against Iran beyond enforcing the toughest sanctions that we can and bringing the world community along as hard as it is, to recognize the danger to them as well as to us and to Israel then I want to know more about the adversary we face. I want to understand better what the leverage we can bring to bear on them will actually produce. I want to get a better sense of what the real power centers and influentials are. And I also want to send a message if we ever do have to take war, drastic action to the rest of the world that we exhausted all possibilities because we need friends and allies to stand with us as we stand with Israel in this long war against terrorism and extremism .

    Obama talks about how diplomacy can work.  Clinton operates from the premise that diplomacy probably won't work.

    The Giuliani comparison is fair, though obviously an exaggeration.

    Parent

    Suuuure (5.00 / 2) (#24)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Nov 03, 2007 at 10:45:24 AM EST
    See my latest post.

    Missile strikes on Iran?

    You are so full of crap on this it is not funny.

    Parent

    As usual, you refuse to address the substance (none / 0) (#26)
    by Geekesque on Sat Nov 03, 2007 at 10:48:09 AM EST
    of what I say.

    Because you can't explain why you bashed Obama for statements that mirror Dodd and Biden, and for introducing legislation that Hillary Clinton invited him to introduce.

    Just like you ignored the actual words of Clinton and Obama in front of AIPAC.

    If you are the unbiased one, you are doing an incredibly poor job of arguing for the truth.

    Parent

    Haa (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Nov 03, 2007 at 10:51:19 AM EST
    So what Obama said to the voters of New Hampshire and Illinois does not matter? Only what was said before AIPAC?

    You are too funny.

    And you keep stating falsely that Dodd said what Burton, Obama's spokesman, said. Burton said new legislation wasneeded Dodd DID NOT. Thusa is concept that escapes you in your primary fever.

    Also, funny how no one at Daily Kos praising Burton's statements on Hillary, make the same distinction between Burton and Obama.

    Parent

    Hillary Clinton said new legislation was needed. (none / 0) (#33)
    by Geekesque on Sat Nov 03, 2007 at 10:56:47 AM EST
    Funny she escaped your criticism, as she very frequently does.

    Your criticism of her vote for Kyl-Lieberman wasn't 1/10th as vitriolic as your condemnation of Obama for doing exactly what she invited her colleagues to do.

    Parent

    Bill Burton (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Nov 03, 2007 at 10:41:32 AM EST
    Used as a justification.

    Dodd's introducing legislation is he?

    You have completely lost your mind because of Obama.

    You and Adam will be ashamed of yourselves after the primary.


    Parent

    Clinton invited such legislation. (none / 0) (#28)
    by Geekesque on Sat Nov 03, 2007 at 10:49:42 AM EST
    I guess Obama could be criticized for taking her idea.

    I would bet money that had Senator Clinton introduced that legislation, you would not have written such an embarrassingly bizarre rant about her.

    Parent

    Embarrassing is right (none / 0) (#30)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Nov 03, 2007 at 10:52:10 AM EST
    For you.

    Parent
    Devastating rebuttal. (none / 0) (#32)
    by Geekesque on Sat Nov 03, 2007 at 10:54:24 AM EST
    You totally convinced me.

    Parent
    That's the point (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Nov 03, 2007 at 11:13:09 AM EST
    You are not convinceable.

    Heck, you still think it was fine for Obama to says Rudy and Hillary are the same.

    Despite the fact that Obama said the exact same things on Iran that Hillary said.

    Parent

    Well, given that 80% of your posts (none / 0) (#35)
    by Geekesque on Sat Nov 03, 2007 at 06:41:54 PM EST
    are now character attacks on Obama, I'll just have to not discuss the primary with you anymore.  You think I'm a cultist, and I think you are a hater.

    Other subjects we can still discuss.  

    Parent

    What's the cure? (none / 0) (#13)
    by Warren Terrer on Sat Nov 03, 2007 at 10:33:26 AM EST
    You could make a fortune if you could patent it.

    I'm now sure how widespread this illness is, but those who are afflicted by it all seem to have a very bad case of it indeed.

    Parent

    If you read his piece yesterday, you (none / 0) (#15)
    by Geekesque on Sat Nov 03, 2007 at 10:35:38 AM EST
    know that some physicians have to heal themselves.

    Parent
    How ironic (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by Warren Terrer on Sat Nov 03, 2007 at 10:38:09 AM EST
    that such a comment would come from you.

    Parent
    Silly (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Nov 03, 2007 at 10:40:11 AM EST
    I have healed myself.

    And I just wrote on Obama and Iran again.

    Because the lying has to be less blatant.

    Parent

    You blasted Obama for doing exactly (none / 0) (#25)
    by Geekesque on Sat Nov 03, 2007 at 10:45:58 AM EST
    as Clinton invited people to do.  

    And you blasted Obama's spokesperson for saying things about Kyl-Lieberman that Dodd and Biden have said.

    The facts are not on your side, no matter how many insults you want to hurl.

    T


    Parent

    Dodd did 'NOT say (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Nov 03, 2007 at 10:48:22 AM EST
    what Burton said.

    You need to check yourself here.

    The personna of Geekesque you have started to bring to Talk Left to closely resembles the Daily Kos Geekesque.

    Parent

    What did the Obama campaign (none / 0) (#31)
    by Geekesque on Sat Nov 03, 2007 at 10:53:07 AM EST
    say about Kyl-Lieberman that is notably different from what Dodd and Biden said?

    I remind you what Burton said:

    Obama spokesman Bill Burton said the Illinois senator drafted the measure in an effort to "nullify the vote the Senate took to give the president the benefit of the doubt on Iran."

    I cannot support the Kyl-Lieberman amendment on Iran. To do so could give this President a green light to act recklessly and endanger US national security.

    And you accuse me of bias.

    My persona is one who is not afraid to disagree with you, and point out when you are wrong.

    Parent