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The Problem With Obama: Axelrod Edition

At Swampland, Karen Tumulty demonstrates the problem with the Obama campaign:

The leading contenders are having an argument over Social Security. That program, of course, is something that Democrats usually fight about with Republicans, not each other. Why now? As Obama strategist David Axelrod sees it, the real issue isn't Social Security: "We're not really picking a fight about Social Security. We're picking a fight about candor. [Obama] has been forthright about this, and Senator Clinton hasn't."

Obama's idea of candor is pandering to the Beltway Elite on Social Security? This is outrageous. As Paul Krugman wrote:

Which brings us back to Barack Obama. Why would he, in effect, play along with this new round of scare-mongering and devalue one of the great progressive victories of the Bush years?

I don't believe Mr. Obama is a closet privatizer. He is, however, someone who keeps insisting that he can transcend the partisanship of our times -- and in this case, that turned him into a sucker.

Obama wanted a way to distinguish himself from Hillary Clinton -- and for Mr. Obama, who has said that the reason "we can't tackle the big problems that demand solutions" is that "politics has become so bitter and partisan," joining in the attack on Mrs. Clinton's Social Security position must have seemed like a golden opportunity to sound forceful yet bipartisan.

This is what we do NOT need from our Democratic standard bearers. Axelrod will ruin Obama's campaign if he keeps this up. The Clinton campaign must be licking its chops on this.

More.

Here is the key grafs from Tumulty's Time article:

In Social Security, Obama believes he has found the perfect issue to demonstrate the transcendent brand of politics he offers. "We will not be able to solve this problem and protect Social Security for good until we stop treating it like a political wedge issue and instead unite Republicans and Democrats behind a sensible solution," Obama wrote in an Op-Ed column in Iowa's Quad-City Times. But critics, including liberals who have allied with Obama on other issues, say any solvency crisis could be decades away. They accuse Obama of buying into the dire scenarios with which the Bush Administration tried--unsuccessfully--to partially privatize the system. New York Times columnist Paul Krugman went so far as to write that Obama had been "played for a fool." Adds a Clinton strategist: "This whole conversation is bewildering. Every Democrat in America has spent the past several years arguing that Social Security is not in a crisis."

Hillary is completely right and understands the politics on this. Obama is completely wrong and Axelrod is leading him down the capitualtion path on this politically.

It is this very type of behavior by Obama and his campaign that worries me to death about him - both as a candidate and a potential President. He seems to be a born triangulator.

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  • Display: Sort:
    He wants Republican crossover votes in NH (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by andgarden on Fri Nov 23, 2007 at 12:46:28 PM EST
    and he's selling out his party to get them.

    Ugh.

    Social Security (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by NYMARJ on Fri Nov 23, 2007 at 02:19:25 PM EST
    My 87 year old mother is a total Obama fan and in discussing social security during Thanksgiving dinner Obama vs Krugman , she wasn't sure if Obama wasn't wrong about a crisis and acting now to save it.  There is a real danger in him speaking the way he is - people like my mother would never be softened to the republican message, ever if not in this way.  The other part of the conversation was why didn't they vote out articles of impeachment.

    It's always Axelrod with you and never (none / 0) (#2)
    by masslib on Fri Nov 23, 2007 at 12:59:13 PM EST
    Obama.  If Obama isn't managing his own campaign, he's certainly not prepared to manage the federal government.  

    Well (none / 0) (#3)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 23, 2007 at 01:02:09 PM EST
    that's because I am an Obama shill.

    Seriously though, I understand that is Obama's instincts. But Axelrod reinforces the worst of it.

    Axelrod will ruin his campaign.

    Parent

    I would never call you a shill. (none / 0) (#4)
    by masslib on Fri Nov 23, 2007 at 01:11:11 PM EST
    6 or half a dozen? (none / 0) (#5)
    by selise on Fri Nov 23, 2007 at 02:01:39 PM EST
    aren't senator clinton's plans for "private" retirement savings plans also a move away from SS?

    it seems to me that obama is using rhetoric to undermine SS and clinton is using policy to undermine SS.

    some choice.

    No. Not at all. Social security (none / 0) (#6)
    by masslib on Fri Nov 23, 2007 at 02:11:46 PM EST
    is an insurance program.  It was never expected to provide completely for one's retirement.

    Parent
    not the point... (none / 0) (#10)
    by selise on Fri Nov 23, 2007 at 02:48:17 PM EST
    tax savings are a regressive cost to government revenue - why not increase SS or medicare benefits instead (something that benefits everyone more equally)?

    why support private retirement savings instead of SS and medicare - unless private retirement savings is a more important policy than SS and medicare.

    and if private accounts are a more important priority than SS and medicare, well that looks like a back door privatization to me.

    Parent

    I do not think so (none / 0) (#9)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 23, 2007 at 02:24:24 PM EST
    Do you have some specifics that back up your assertion?

    Is an IRA or a Keogh plan an attack on Social security?

    Parent

    Again, it's Carter (none / 0) (#7)
    by koshembos on Fri Nov 23, 2007 at 02:17:34 PM EST
    You support a candidate either emotionally or rationally. Initially, emotions led me to contribute to Obama. He sounded well, is articulate, a good speaker and seemed to have the right ideas. Later, reason started to creep in. Vouchers, bipartisanship through water on the initial fire. Support for the war in Iraq in 2044 and 2005 were a real blow.

    Now it is clear to me that Obama is a 3rd party candidate. Well, we had once a Democrat who run with a 3rd party ideas. His name is Carter.

    Language (none / 0) (#12)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 23, 2007 at 05:18:48 PM EST
    No profanity.

    Carter? (none / 0) (#13)
    by RalphB on Fri Nov 23, 2007 at 06:29:51 PM EST
    Maybe Carter but I think a closer newer parallel is the Bush 2000 campaign.  He ran as a new kind of republican who could work across the aisle and get things done, like he did in Texas.  Well in Texas he  had no choice since LtGov Bob Bullock was the real power and whatever Bullock wanted he got from Bush and everyone else.

    I live in Texas and watched run against Ann Richards with the same crap he used nationally.  In Obama I see Bush all over again, penny ante attacks followed by high blown rhetoric that totally substance free.

    It's gotten to the point that when Obama comes on TV I have to turn if off.  I just can't watch, it's a visceral thing.

    IMO (none / 0) (#14)
    by chemoelectric on Fri Nov 23, 2007 at 08:50:24 PM EST
    IMO Obama is not as much a triangulator as calculatedly phony.

    i'm a cpa, (none / 0) (#15)
    by cpinva on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 04:37:50 AM EST
    with a specialty in federal tax law. it's what i've been doing for almost 30 years. dr. krugman and sen. clinton are correct. sen. obama is beyond wrong; he's fallen into the realm of either stupid, or seriously uninformed, with respect to social security.

    not only is the issue of solvency decades away, the methodology used to calculate it is thin. the only reason the computations are made at all is because congress requires them; no self-respecting actuary or economist would give much credence to 40 year projections, other than theoretically.

    like all projections, they rely, in large part, on assumptions. any expert will tell you that assumptions beyond a few years are shaky, at best. this is why no one but republican blowhards, and apparently sen. obama, is getting particularly worked up over the social security issue, because it doesn't exist in real life.

    actually, congress could, with the swipe of a pen, fix the projected "shortfall", merely by reducing or eliminating cost-of-living increases. nothing about SS is cast in bronze, everything is subject to change.

    sen. obama should know this. if he doesn't, or intentionally chooses to ignore it, that's a sign that he isn't the man for the job of president, along with all the other signs we've had.

    It's not 2005 anymore (none / 0) (#16)
    by joejoejoe on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 06:11:41 AM EST
    President Bush already fought and lost the battle to privatize Social Security.

    Instead of the netroots sitting around singing 'Glory Days' about 2005 they should realize that there is no set of circumstances that can arise in the next decade that would allow the GOP to even bring up the topic again, let alone pass privitization. We'll be living in a police state in a global war before the GOP gets the mojo to pass Social Security privatization and if that's the case we're going to have a lot bigger problems than Obama's failure to master George Lakoff's theories on rhetoric. I fully understand that There is No Crisis but there is a problem with long-term funding and a discussion about what it means to be middle class. It ain't people making more than $97,000 per year and that is Obama's political hammer. Why are people pretending $97,000 is middle-class? Krugman:

    What we really have is a looming crisis in the General Fund. Social Security, with its own dedicated tax, has been run responsibly; the rest of the government has not.

    Raising the SS cap coupled with fiscal discipline in Congress allows the General Fund crisis to be addressed. Isn't Obama on better footing to 'solve' the SS crisis and by way of a bank shot make it easier for Congress to solve the true crisis - the general fund crisis and address the budget deficit?

    Funding Social Security in the out years IS a problem, especially if the economy is bad in the next few years. Obama is talking about an issue that applies to everyone (Social Security) and a tax that applies to almost everybody (94% of working adults pay SS taxes on 100% of their pay) and simply saying 'Let's extend that tax to more of the 6% over $97,000'. Progressives like Josh Marshall AGREE with Obama on the substance of the policy, they just don't want him talking about Social Security.

    Since when did our democracy become Fight Club? 'The first rule of Social Security is you don't talk about Social Security'. Maybe in 2005 with a Republican Senate and a newly reelected  Bush that was good advice but it's terrible advice today. I'd guess 95% of the people who hear Obama speak are entirely unaware of the details of the '05 SS debate. It's news to most people that the cap even exists and they're not happy when they find out about it.

    Obama is addressing a serious fiscal issue, supporting a popular program with more funds, and drawing blood on his chief rival all in one move. What not to like if you're Obama? The off-chance that your rhetoric is enabling GOP efforts to privatize Social Security through some kind of blowback? Obama is taking benefit cuts OFF the table and advocating a tax increase. How the GOP is supposed to repackage that as an attack on the safety net is beyond me.

    The 1985 Chicago Bears might have had the best defense in history, the '46 defense', and it led them to dominate the Super Bowl. By 1987 the same team was getting beat in the first round of the playoffs. When people figure out your tactics you need new tactics. The 2005 SS debate was about blocking any Bush move to destroy the program. The debate Obama is having NOW is about actually fixing something that needs fixing. SS funding isn't the #1 problem on the agenda but it's not school uniforms and the V-chip either.

    Obama is on the right track on policy and political grounds when he talks about Social Security.


    Forgetting the politics for a moment (none / 0) (#17)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 08:47:57 AM EST
    On the policy Obam,a and you could notbe more wrong. Do facts stop mattering now in order to defend your candidate?

    An intelligent fellow like you now spouts inanaities because you have to defend Obama?

    If I amwrong, explain to me your theory of the Social Security problem?

    There is not a respected person in the world that believes what you wrote.

    Parent

    What did I write that is false? (none / 0) (#18)
    by joejoejoe on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 09:36:21 AM EST
    You can disagree with my view of the politics and policy but I did my best to represent the facts of my case honestly.

    1) Josh Marshall on Obama and Social Security:

    If Obama is hoping for an issue to gain traction with vis a vis Hillary, he's really muffed it picking Social Security. In itself the idea of removing or significantly restructuring the 'cap' on payroll taxes is a good one, at least one with a lot to recommend it. The current approach (though one with a long history and embraced by many strong Social Security advocates) makes the funding structure of Social Security highly regressive. But what Obama is doing is buying into the false idea that Social Security is in some sort of crisis.

    1. The political landscape for the parties has changed since 2005. Dems hold the House for the foreseable future and have a slim majority in the Senate. The President is a lame duck. It's not the same fight as 2005. Blocking legislation requires different tactics than advocating for a position.

    2. The Krugman quote about the general fund crisis is accurate. Congress has been raiding the SS surplus to minimize the budget deficit since before Bill Clinton. I'm not saying that the US will default on the bonds that are exchanged -- they won't -- but it's still a dishonest way of compiling a general fund budget. Adding more money to the Social Security trust fund to be looted is folly if Congress doesn't show some discipline but  maybe if the SS trust fund is made solvent to the satisfaction of Russert and friends (ala the Reagan/O'Neil compromise) we can move on to bigger fish. Politicians should justify current expenses with current revenues. That's a concept that dates back to Thomas Jefferson.

    3. Obama is scoring points with something lately. Many people think it's his direct confrontation with Clinton on this issue. Is it substance or style that is moving the polls? I don't know but the polls are moving.

    From the Iowa Independent:

    [Commentary] U.S. Sen. Barack Obama tonight turned in his strongest presidential debate performance and exposed a clear regional difference with front-runner Hillary Clinton.

    Is $97,000 a lot of money? In most of Obama's Illinois and just about all of Iowa, the answer to that is "yes," which makes Obama's position on the question of whether to raise or lift the cap on Social Security taxes more reasonable to Hawkeye State voters than the New York shape-shifting of Clinton. [...]

    [Clinton] suggested that popping the cap would hurt middle-class Americans and argued that in some parts of the nation (namely high-priced New York City which she represents) $97,500 isn't a lot of money. It would be interesting to hear her make that argument in Audubon County, Iowa, where the average home is worth half that much: $49,000.

    1. I'll concede Obama's been less than clear on what should and should not "be on the table" with regards to Social Security. But I see this as a ridiculous pundit game, not a substantive policy distinction. A consensus tweak here and there about retirement age, early retirement, and benefit levels isn't going to be controversial. The game of Russert is to catch you in an "Ah-HA!" moment, not discuss Social Security. Obama is pushing a tax increase (expanding the cap) as a political winner. It's hard to accuse him of sugar coating the process even if he has stumbled in the past explaining his position. Sen. Clinton won't even discuss the issue.

    2. The Bears analogy may have been a stretch.

    3. Obama on Lakoff (via Street Prophets):
    This idea that somehow - that any time that Democrats or progressives engage in self-reflection we are adopting a Republican frame - the popularity of this George Lakoff critique of everything we do, I think hampers us from being able to improve our game.

    You know, I love Lakoff. I think he's an insightful guy. But the fact is that I am not a propagandist. That's not my job. My job and my intent in delivering a speech like this is I'm trying to speak truthfully as I can about what I see out there. If I'm restricted or prescribed in my statements because the media or Republicans - or Democrats - are going to interpret what I say through the Republican frame, I'm not going to spend a lot of time saying very much.

    I may be dead wrong in my analysis but that's how I see things. I tried to present the facts of the debate in good faith. Some people think raising the cap is a bad idea because it makes the program less politically viable as a "good deal" for it's participants but I believe that relies on a warped view that the tiny hit that 6% of the people take on income in excess of $97,000 is a political albatross. If you ask anybody who pays social security taxes on 100% of their income what the guy standing next to them should pay the answer you'll get is "100%". It's an easy policy to explain.

    Parent

    One basic fact (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 09:51:01 AM EST
    and many others. But lets' start with this one:

    "Funding Social Security in the out years IS a problem."

    It is NOT. Actuarial assumption of 1.3% GDP growth per annum argues that there MAY be a problem AFTER 2047.

    The idea of out years problems is SHEER SPECULATION based on ahistorical rates of growth.

    It is sheer nonsense Obama is speaking. Utter NONSENSE.

    There are many other things that are wrong in what you wrote but let's just logically consider this whopper:

    The Krugman quote about the general fund crisis is accurate. Congress has been raiding the SS surplus to minimize the budget deficit since before Bill Clinton. I'm not saying that the US will default on the bonds that are exchanged -- they won't -- but it's still a dishonest way of compiling a general fund budget. Adding more money to the Social Security trust fund to be looted is folly if Congress doesn't show some discipline but  maybe if the SS trust fund is made solvent to the satisfaction of Russert and friends (ala the Reagan/O'Neil compromise) we can move on to bigger fish. Politicians should justify current expenses with current revenues. That's a concept that dates back to Thomas Jefferson.

    So we do not expect to honor the current fix and Trust Fund so you propose MAKING a bigger one NOT to honor?

    This strikes me as possibly the stupidest policy thinking I have ever read.

    IT is indeed Obama's argument and demonstrates how very dangerously wrong he is on this.

    It is by far the worst thing, and he has done many execrable things, he has done.

    I can only attribute your defense to candidate support. There is not a stitch of logic in your argument.

    Parent

    Maybe I'm wrong (none / 0) (#22)
    by joejoejoe on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 10:09:48 AM EST
    1. I did say the "out years" and I believe it's 2017 or 2018 when the surplus starts to get smaller -- therefore triggering some general fund issues.

    2. My argument conflating the SS tax cap increase and the budget deficit was poorly expressed and maybe made the oppositite point I intended. To recap, I think fiscal issues are complicated and best dealt with a holistic approach. Obama will have an easier time pushing through a tax increase in SS which then would buy him time to sort through the general fund problems. If Congress just continued to spend the funds in the SS trust from the newly raised tax that would truly be awful policy. I'm trying to say raising the SS cap will buy time to address the general fund issues.

    3. I get excited and emotional talking about SS not because of a nephew and sister-in-law who benefited from the program through SSDI, not because of my support for Obama. Social security isn't just a retirement security program. There are 6 Americans on SSDI for every 10 over the $97,000 cap. I wish    SSDI, which is funded by the SS payroll tax, got 60% of the ink that the '$97K middle class' got in the papers.

    As for the persuasiveness of my argument, I'll grant you that I'm less than clear this morning.

    I'm done with this debate for this morning -- I need to reorganize my thoughts on the general fund/SS surplus issue so when I talk about the issue it's I'm more easily understood.

    Hope you and yours had a nice holiday. Cheers.

    Parent

    Sorry for the sharp words (none / 0) (#23)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 10:15:25 AM EST
    But I am sorry, you still are not maing sense to me.

    You write:

    did say the "out years" and I believe it's 2017 or 2018 when the surplus starts to get smaller -- therefore triggering some general fund issues.

    For the Trust Fund perspective, no general fund issues are even speculated about until 2046. Not 2017. Which leads to your next argument that I find extremely problematic:

    Obama will have an easier time pushing through a tax increase in SS which then would buy him time to sort through the general fund problems.

    Is 40 years NOT enough time? Does he needs a hundred years? 200? sorry, that is nonsense to me.

    Then you say:

    If Congress just continued to spend the funds in the SS trust from the newly raised tax that would truly be awful policy. I'm trying to say raising the SS cap will buy time to address the general fund issues.

    And you reason for believing the Congress would NOT is what?

    Parent

    Krugman on the budget and 2017 (none / 0) (#24)
    by joejoejoe on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 11:39:23 AM EST
    1) Krugman on the budget:
    [The # of boomers retiring] will raise the percentage of GDP spent on Social Security from about 4 to 6 -- that is, a rise of about 2 percentage points of GDP, which is a small fraction of the entitlements problem. See, for example, this chart from my NY Review of Books piece on the subject.

    Krugman obviously knows more about this than I do but even he says expected SS outlays are a "small fraction of the entitlements problem". "A small fraction" is still signifiant. I agree that health-related expenditures are a bigger problem but Obama (and every candidate) addresses those costs with a comprehensive health care plan.   The flaw in Krugman's "small fraction" construction is that politicians talk about far smaller amounts of money (space weapons, foreign aid, earmarks, etc.) all the time. It's still OK  for pols to talk about issues that are modest problems isn't it? You have to buy the argument that Obama is opening up a can of worms by discussing Social Security at all and I don't buy that argument. Obama agrees with Josh Marshall on a policy proposal to raise the cap on SS payroll taxes. Maybe I'm dim but I don't see how elevating a rhetorical disagreement with Obama trumps the substantive policy agreement that most progressives have when it comes to raising the SS cap.

    2) Krugman on 2017:

    OK, from some communications I see that 2017 -- the projected date at which payroll taxes no longer cover benefit payments -- has raised its ugly head. But there is no interpretation under which 2017 matters. Social Security legally has its own dedicated funding; if you believe the government will honor the law, the surpluses the system is now running are building up a trust fund, which will finance the system for decades after 2017, and maybe forever. If you think the law will be ignored, then Social Security doesn't really have its own budget -- the payroll tax is just one of many taxes, and SS benefits are just one of many government costs. In that case the relationship between payroll taxes and benefits is irrelevant.

    The only way to make 2017 matter is to change the rules midway: when SS runs surpluses they don't count, but when it runs deficits they do.

    Here's where Krugman is technically correct but I think he misreads the politics. It's not black and white how Congress applies the rules. Depending on how Congress behaves 2017 could be quite meaningful. Congress can shade how the SS surplus funds are blended with general funds and even write new rules. Robbing Peter to pay Paul and avoid taking a stand before the voters is what most politicians do. It's most always gray in Congress, not so clear as Krugman says. I'm hoping that not only will Congress NOT raid the SS surplus that they'll take the example of an Obama SS reform package to heart and move ahead to address the general budget crisis (I know this makes me look incredibly naive). Contra Krugman, if the dispostion of the surplus was an absolute non-issue then Al Gore wouldn't have spent so much time talking about the "lock box".

    3) Krugman on the "lock box":

    The need for the lockbox arises from two crucial facts about the federal budget. First, that budget is dominated by the retirement programs, Social Security and Medicare -- loosely speaking, the post-cold-war federal government is a big pension fund that also happens to have an army. Second, a decade from now the population served by those programs will explode, as the baby-boom generation reaches retirement age.

    Because of those facts, merely balancing the federal budget would be a deeply irresponsible policy -- because that would leave us unprepared for the demographic deluge, with no alternative once it arrives except to raise taxes and slash benefits. To ease the burden we should run large surpluses for the next decade -- surpluses that will pay off the federal debt, and perhaps help purchase assets to back promised payments.

    If politicians were saints, we could count on them to run the needed surpluses without imposing a rigid rule. But in the real world politicians need an artificial backbone. And hence the concept of the lockbox. The Social Security system is currently taking in more money than it pays out; the lockbox says that this part of the overall budget surplus is not available for tax cuts or spending increases.

    That's from July 2001 and obviously we didn't run the surpluses to pay down the debt and it looks to me like the economy isn't going to be growing at a robust rate in the coming few years. Krugman circa 2001 still had SS as #3 entitlement problem but he still considered it a problem. It's only after the 2005 debates that this 'There is No Crisis' mindset took hold and I think it's backwards looking and obscures the kind of policy debate Krugman was having in July 2001.

    4) Big Tent Democrat on me:
     

    I'm trying to say raising the SS cap will buy time to address the general fund issues.

    And you reason for believing the Congress would NOT is what?

    Maybe I'm naive but I have to believe that people in a democracy will act through their government to either get new leaders (President Obama) or change the behavior of existing officials to the point where problems can be addressed and govennment can be competent and rational. If I DIDN'T believe this why should I bother debating issues with you -- to what end are we having this discussion if not to sort out the issues and then acting upon them in some kind of consensus? The cynic in me wanted to get an EU passport in 2005 because the damage to my country is irreparable. The optimist in me sees Obama as a real leader in the mold of FDR or Kennedy who can change attitudes and accomplish great things.

    Congress right now is an awful mess even with the new Democratic leadership. I know that. Maybe it's because I grew up with decent Republicans in government in the Northeast that I think it doesn't ALWAYS have to be so bitter working across the aisle. Maybe the far right can be beaten back into it's John Birch cage and the country can really move forward. The Democratic Party is finally free of it's racist Dixiecrats and if the existing party can build a governing coalition with 15-20% of the GOP caucus this country can really make some progress towards the "life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness goals". I'm probably unbelievably naive for even entertaining that thought but the alternative is giving up.

    I'm headed out now to return some library books and enjoy the sunny day. Thanks for your patience and challenging debate as always!

    Parent

    As I read you (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 12:57:16 PM EST
    Your argument is Obama is the Messiah.

    I think that is a weak argument.

    Moreover, if HE IS the Messiah, if he CAN walk on water, then his fix is not the right one at all.

    Parent

    Not the messiah (none / 0) (#26)
    by joejoejoe on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 01:06:10 PM EST
    If Obama can start the country down the path to universal health care, refute the Bush doctrine, and operate the government within the constraints of the Constitution and it's amendments I believe that the people can do the rest by being engaged with their government.

    If the people can't do their share then everything we're talking about may as well be Looney Toons cartoons and your knowledge of the law is nothing more than trivia because our country is a sham.

    I don't want to believe that.

    Congress did oversight fairly well in the years after Watergate in the 70s, Republicans helped pass the Civil Rights acts in the 60s. You don't have to invoke some belief in a deity to realize that our system has function better in the past with a more engaged population and a less superficial group of elected officials.

    Parent

    Excuse me (none / 0) (#29)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 04:55:00 PM EST
    Obama can do no more than Edwards or Clinton on those domestic issues, though it is my view that he can of FP issues.

    We were discussing Social Security, where Obama has made a big mistake.

    Terrible from him.

    Parent

    Not 2005? (none / 0) (#19)
    by RalphB on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 09:36:33 AM EST
    No it's not 2005 anymore, but if you believe the people who want to privatize SS have given up on it, I want some of what you're smoking.  SS is the biggest pot of money that Wall Street could possibly get it's hands on and they will never stop trying.

    However, leaving that aside, I do not agree that people making $97K are not middle class.  It depends on where you live.  In Douchebag, ND I'm sure they are very well off but not in higher cost of living areas.

    Since SS is a payroll tax only, you won't hit those you obviously are aiming at who are really rich.  Their income is largely investment or perks which are not payroll so you'll miss them and hit people like me who may make a comfortable living but are definitely still middle class.  By the way, I wouldn't appreciate that one bit to solve an imaginary crisis!


    Perhaps Obama or his advisors (none / 0) (#27)
    by oculus on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 01:18:37 PM EST
    are tracking AP top headlines:  Social Security to Become Key Issue

    Obama transcends partisan politics (none / 0) (#28)
    by aahpat on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 04:10:45 PM EST
    Obama transcends partisan politics by imply that he is progressive while consistently delivering for the right wing.

    Barack Obama: A Stereotype of Conventional Wisdom

    He is a very typical right-wing lawyer alluding to a position on one side of an issue while actually supporting an agenda that achieves the opposite side of the issue.

    The more I see him the more I want to support him. The more I listen to him the more I hate what he says.