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ACLU Files Objections to Real I.D. Regulations

By Jeralyn, Section Civil Liberties
Posted on Mon May 07, 2007 at 12:28:59 PM EST
Tags: Real I.D. Act (all tags)
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The ACLU has filed objections to the Real I.D. Regulations.

A hearing is scheduled tomorrow before the Senate Judiciary Committee.

Calling the Real ID Act "unworkable and an intolerable threat to privacy and civil liberties," the American Civil Liberties Union today filed comments asking the Department of Homeland Security to withdraw its proposed Real ID regulations and to join with the expanding list of states, organizations and individuals pushing Congress to overhaul the ill-conceived measure.

"This is a bad law, and DHS' regulations won't make it any better," said Caroline Fredrickson, Director of the ACLU Washington Legislative Office. "The ACLU national office and state affiliates have been campaigning against Real ID for more than two years, and the effort is beginning to pay off. Our efforts helped create a genuine rebellion against this law."

"Real ID is a flimsy house of cards doomed to an inevitable collapse. The regulations do not--and cannot--fix its many problems," said Barry Steinhardt, Director of the ACLU's Technology and Liberty Project.

Opposition to the Real I.D. Act is spreading. You can view a map showing progress across the country here.

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    ACLU Files Objections to Real I.D. Regulations | 19 comments (19 topical)
    Could you explain the problem to me? (none / 0) (#1)
    by somethingsrotten on Mon May 07, 2007 at 02:49:44 PM EST
    In most countries in Europe people have national ID cards. In my country Denmark, these are primarily used for national healthcare, and provide an automatic voter registration, so that the government sends the "voting card" a week before the election. Everybody who is qualifed gets one. Its sort of like a social security card, that is registered with peoples basic informaion, like address and such. There is a law governing who can use the information and how they can use it. If you compare it with the spying going on already of citizens in the USA, I can't really see the reason for opposition.

    Here in the USA.... (none / 0) (#2)
    by kdog on Mon May 07, 2007 at 03:14:45 PM EST
    there is small print on our SS cards stating "Not to be used for identification purposes"...which is a big joke because you can't take a piss anymore without somebody asking for your SS #.

    The reason so many are against a national ID is because it will only make it easier for our government to spy on us and track us.  One can only imagine the nefarious things our government could do with a national ID.  There may be laws against misuse in Denmark, but here in the US our government has a habit of ignoring such laws...just like they ignore the small type on the SS card.

    Parent

    What happens to the folks who refuse (none / 0) (#3)
    by JSN on Mon May 07, 2007 at 03:35:54 PM EST
    to carry their Real-ID card? Will they be locked up in a federal prison?

    Special Ones (none / 0) (#4)
    by squeaky on Mon May 07, 2007 at 04:09:35 PM EST
    That Haliburton is building.

    Your paperz.....

    Parent

    I think I remember an arguement that the commies (none / 0) (#5)
    by somethingsrotten on Mon May 07, 2007 at 04:14:08 PM EST
    will come and take away your guns, too. I think that the fear of big brother in the US is real, but it shouldn't stop you from fighting against illegal spying on citizens, and keep you from having a national healthcare (which would need IDs) or a Real Voter ID (that would automatically qualify citizens to vote in elections without registration.)

    Parent
    A question.... (none / 0) (#6)
    by kdog on Mon May 07, 2007 at 04:56:52 PM EST
    Why is an ID card necessary for national healthcare?  If everybody is covered, I would think nobody needs a card.  Just go to the hospital and get your care...no?

    As for voting, what wrong with a drivers license, SS card, or utility bill?

    The dangers far outweigh the benefits, in my opinion.  There is no compelling need for a new piece of paper to carry around, or a new database to enter everybody's name in.  

    Parent

    You need a healthcare id to (none / 0) (#7)
    by somethingsrotten on Mon May 07, 2007 at 05:04:08 PM EST
    make sure you can get the correct health care no matter which hospital you go to, and to allow the healthcare provider to get paid for the service provided to you. National healthcare might not cost the patient anything, but it's not free. I still costs money, that comes from taxes.

    Parent
    Oh boy.... (none / 0) (#8)
    by kdog on Mon May 07, 2007 at 05:24:46 PM EST
    I hope I get the correct healthcare no matter what piece of laminated paper I'm holding:) You can wear a bracelet if you're allergic to pennicilin or something.

    As for billing, we can use our SS# for that, we already use it as our credit check and tax ID.  

    I think this ID is about locking up immigrants and tracking people.

    I don't doubt there is more faith in government in Denmark, that must be nice, but as a reader here I'm sure you get an idea of the crooked bastards running the show in the US.

    Parent

    ID is coming (none / 0) (#9)
    by janinsanfran on Mon May 07, 2007 at 06:15:14 PM EST
    A real danger in a national ID system is the incredble additional potential it offers for identity theft. Suppose someone got ahold of whatever identifiers the government gives us -- home free to be you until our multiple, inept jurisdictions stop 'em.

    I think in our lifetimes we'll have such a thing; the technolgy has become cheap enough to ensure that.  And it will be abused, because we seem to have lost the stomach for enforcing effective, legal limits on government power.

    Identity theft will not be easier (none / 0) (#17)
    by privatemale on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 01:28:06 AM EST
    The whole point of changing to a national ID standard and database is to prevent creation of fake IDs and identity theft. Lax ID standards in many states make it easy for anyone to get a fake ID and use it pretend to be anyone they wish.

    Parent
    Denmark vs the USA (none / 0) (#10)
    by Richard in Jax on Mon May 07, 2007 at 09:04:07 PM EST
    ""In most countries in Europe people have national ID cards. In my country Denmark, these are primarily used for national healthcare, and provide an automatic voter registration, so that the government sends the "voting card" a week before the election.""

    Yup. I grew up in the Netherlands, (I am a born American) and such a card was used there. But my European friend: What is rotten is now longer in Denmark...but the USA and it is the DHS, the Department of Homeland Security. Bear with us as we American's deal with the ID cards. For now we see them as one more assault on a long tradition of freedom from government 'big brotherism' and agencies that use words like "Homeland" and "Department". My guess..they go over like 'Rooms to Go' would in Denmark.

    paranoia (none / 0) (#11)
    by diogenes on Mon May 07, 2007 at 10:34:39 PM EST
    Identity theft of social security numbers happens already.  The US government can troll any data base it wants if it wants to break existing law.  Heck, I can pay an internet search company about fifty bucks and get all the ID info that I want on someone.  Opposing a national ID card because of a theoretical big brother really is like the NRA types opposing bans on assault weapons because it means the government will then take everyone's guns away.
    Also, a national ID card with computer data base to arrival at a polling place will mean that we can have people show up and vote without advance registration (and only vote once, provided that they are alive).  Isn't this a good thing, as opposed to the vague fears that the government (presumably soon to be replaced by a Democratic one anyway) will start a dictatorship?

    Of course! (none / 0) (#12)
    by Sailor on Mon May 07, 2007 at 10:56:16 PM EST
    Identity theft of social security numbers happens already.  The US government can troll any data base it wants if it wants to break existing law.
    It already happens illegally so we should make it legal! Pfft.

    Parent
    Sailor - Try some logic (none / 0) (#13)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue May 08, 2007 at 09:01:39 AM EST
    Having a national ID card does not mean that we have to make the government's actions legal.

    Parent
    When was the last time you looked at a SS card? (none / 0) (#19)
    by privatemale on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 01:40:19 AM EST
    Social Security cards are simple enough an elementary school student could make a fake one with a PC and a printer. They are just a simple piece of thick paper with your name and social security number on it. No photo, finger prints, or anything else that identifies the owner. They don't even have basic security controls like microprinting or special inks. What's worse is you can still use it as a form of ID in many places.

    Parent
    Hidden agenda (none / 0) (#14)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue May 08, 2007 at 09:16:40 AM EST
    Many on this blog, including me, have demanded that we get tough on employers that hire illegal aliens. Now unless you have an effective National ID, how are you going to be able to do that?

    Oh, you can raid a few for show, arrest a few for show, but that doesn't stop the problem.

    What stops it is an effective national ID. No ID, no hire. No ID, no excuses from the employers they didn't know.

    Now, isn't the real agenda by the ACLU that they don't want the government from being able to ID the illegals??

    And wouldn't it be real simple to add the SSN number to the card?

    BTW - Now, if you go to a health care provider, one of the things they demand is, for Medicare, your Medicare Card, or your Insurance Card, and your driver's license... The genie is out of the bottle.

    Simple answers to simple questions (none / 0) (#15)
    by Sailor on Tue May 08, 2007 at 12:05:42 PM EST
    Now, isn't the real agenda by the ACLU that they don't want the government from being able to ID the illegals??
    No.

    Sailor (none / 0) (#16)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue May 08, 2007 at 01:50:43 PM EST
    And your proof is??

    Parent
    Please continue the discussion (none / 0) (#18)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 01:35:44 AM EST
    Here.

    This thread was supposed to have been closed long ago. Thanks.

    ACLU Files Objections to Real I.D. Regulations | 19 comments (19 topical)