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The Ugly Face of the Right Blogs

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Blog Related
Posted on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 05:54:32 PM EST
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Via Matt Yglesias, the ugly face of the Right Blogosphere, duly endorsed by the all important Instapundit link:

Not that I'm saying homosexuality is incompatible with masculinity, of course. Consenting biweekly to having one's duodenum battered with the manic hydraulic fury of a tricked-out V-12 jackhammer manned by an epileptic Con-Ed worker with an ancestral oath of vengeance against asphalt would, I think, tend to butch one up, at least as regards one's pain threshold.

Perhaps we can all understand better now what we are dealing with. The violent hatred expressed by the Right is truly toxic. What say you Howie Kurtz? Joe Klein?

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    The Ugly Face of the Right Blogs | 67 comments (67 topical)
    Some observations (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by Molly Bloom on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 06:19:11 PM EST
    1. WM F. Buckley really had a bad influence on conservative prose- too many 2 dollar words when a 25 cent one would do.

    2. They seem clueless as to ideology of Roy Cohn

    3. They are convinced all gay men want to have sex with them- see they "tongue in cheek" reference to how Insty (Ace's nickname for Glenn Reynolds) passed up the opportunity to jump Ace's bones, ergo Insty isn't gay.

    4. They seem to be convinced Ace's post is funny.

    Do you think any of the posters on Ace's site could pass the M'Naughten test?

    The thing is (5.00 / 3) (#2)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 06:23:53 PM EST
    the violence that is glorified in the post is part and parcel.

    Replace gays for women, immigrants, African-Americans, it is all basically there.

    And Glenn Reyonolds gives it his seal of approval.

    That the intelligence of this segment is low is not particularly my concern. After all, these are people who still can not admit what the Iraq Debacle has done to the well being of our nation.

    The violence glorified is a concern I think.

    Parent

    Its not the glorified violence that is of concern (none / 0) (#10)
    by Molly Bloom on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 07:27:53 PM EST
    Violence is glorified in televsion, movies and literature.

    The bigger question, the real concern, is why do  why do conservatives tolerate it in their movement?

    I've never been impressed with Glenn Reynolds. The fact that he is foolish enough to put his stamp of approval on it, tells you all you need to know.

    And to a certain extent, it does have to do with low intelligence.

    You and I recognize glorified violence in the arts for what it is- a cartoon at worst or at best,  part of serious artistic statement. We don't think it appropriate behavior as these people did or these perpetrators did. You don't see this sort of thing among liberals (before anyone starts, Stalin was not a liberal).

    Thats the difference between the modern conservative movement and us.



    Parent

    MB (1.00 / 0) (#24)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 08:57:07 PM EST
    The bigger question, the real concern, is why do  why do conservatives tolerate it in their movement?

    I think the quoted comments are despicable and deserving of being snarked.... but please telling me that violence is isolated to the Right is just so much BS.

    And if you don't believe that, then you haven't been reading TalkLeft.

    Parent

    It isn't Jm (none / 0) (#37)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 10:00:47 PM EST
    limited to the Right generally.

    But in the blogs, it is.

    Parent

    BTD (1.00 / 1) (#45)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 11:09:35 PM EST
    Nope.

    Read some of your own very agressive attacks on those you disagree with.

    Read some of the very agressive attacks against Bush.

    Parent

    that's absurd Jim (5.00 / 3) (#46)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 11:15:29 PM EST
    Can you point to any of my posts where I describe violent fantasies against my political opponents?

    I do not know what you are trying to do but  stop it.

    This is slander and I will delete your comments if you persist.

    Parent

    BTD (1.00 / 1) (#47)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 11:18:14 PM EST
    I am referring to you calling people liars, etc.
    See almost any of your posts.


    Parent
    Jim (5.00 / 4) (#55)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 11:26:15 PM EST
    if you don't see the difference between the two I can't help you.

    Let me try a hypothetical for you.

    I think Tony Snow is a liar. I do not fantasize about violence or harm to Tony Snow.

    I will call him a liar. I will not write a violent fantasy about him.

    Parent

    BTD (1.00 / 1) (#68)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 11:58:47 PM EST
    As noted, I didn't claim you write violent fantasies against your opponents.

    My point was, is and will be that your agressive use of the "lie" word is a huge turn off and angers many people. Let me give you an example of one, if I used your standards, I would have used on you.

    Like Joe Klein, Russert stands with the extreme 26% and Sean Hannity who oppose withdrawal from Iraq within a year. 68% of the country favor withdrawal within a year.

    In fact, that's not a correct statement. 43% want it done within a year, 25% immediately. And within a year is not "immediately." That's a huge factual difference that you just slide around.

    I could have screamed "Lie!" But I didn't because I think it wouldn't have been condusive to a discussion, and because I considered that you had just misspoke yourself.

    BTW - There have been plenty of other attacks that don't involve you, me, or even edger. ;-)

    Parent

    Here's an example of why I do not call you (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 12:27:38 AM EST
    a liar.

    You simply do not read the English language very well.

    The word "Within" escapes you.

    Immediately is "within a year" Jim.

    43 + 25 = 68.

    Try again next time. And try for accuracy next time.

    Parent

    BTD (none / 0) (#74)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 08:00:09 AM EST
    No, I understood what you said, and I understood your claim.

    But that is really begging the issue. On a subject such as this it is important to be accurate. Said another way, it restates the 25% number from immedately to sometimes in the next 365 days and makes the 43% number much larger than it is. That simply is too large a difference to let the two numbers be stated as one because it gives a result that is very misleading.

    That is why I said I just assumed you misspoke yourslf. If I took it any other way I would have to assume you deliberately tried to mislead.

    Said another way, it becomes "fake but accurate."

    BTW - I don't expect you agree or understand.

    Parent

    BTD - What I should have said.. (none / 0) (#75)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 08:31:30 AM EST
    My comment doesn't apply to the heated exchanges and the calling of others liars, although that is not a way, in my opinion, to change anyone's mind or prove a point.

    If you want to do it based on a belief that you are the holder of all that is true, fine.

    On that issue I was referring to the almost continual "Bush lied" refrain. I think that is inaccurate and boring. Bush didn't lie. I think he was trying to tell it like he saw it at that time.
    And worse, by making such statements it turns the discussion into a "He did!" "Did Not!" exchange rather than a calm look at how Clinton was mislead in '98 and how Bush was in 2001.

    What we had there was a huge failure of intelligence. That needs to be fixed, and I don't see that being done.

    I was actually thinking of many of the very graphic attacks on the Pres, VP, etc. TL deletes those she reads, but they have occurred time again.

    I was also thinking of this article by Lanny Davis, who is not exactly a memeber of the Right.

    And in recent years--with the deadly combination of sanctimony and vitriol displayed by the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter and Michael Savage--I held on to the view that the left was inherently more tolerant and less hateful than the right.

    Now, in the closing days of the Lieberman primary campaign, I have reluctantly concluded that I was wrong. The far right does not have a monopoly on bigotry and hatred and sanctimony. Here are just a few examples (there are many, many more anyone with a search engine can find) of the type of thing the liberal blog sites have been posting about Joe Lieberman:

    Click on the link.

    Parent

    yeah (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by taylormattd on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 07:16:17 PM EST
    I'm sure Howie and the crowd will get right that.

    No, he needs to spend more time (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by andgarden on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 08:08:27 PM EST
    blathering about how Al Gore supposedly claimed to "invent" the internet.

    Parent
    OT but (1.00 / 0) (#27)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 09:00:20 PM EST
    That is create the internet....

    Still not true...

    Parent

    incorrect. n/t (5.00 / 3) (#9)
    by taylormattd on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 07:22:05 PM EST


    Purposefully. (5.00 / 2) (#15)
    by Edger on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 07:56:36 PM EST
    So not incorrect.

    Parent
    The violent hatred expressed by the Right (5.00 / 4) (#11)
    by Edger on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 07:32:08 PM EST
    is truly an expression of debilitatingly pathological insecurities, imho.

    There, I found a way to use a couple of 2 dollar words for this.
    [h/t Molly ;-)]

    Or swollen insecurities, for the 25 centers who somehow manage to confuse being pitied and laughed at with being hated, right Gabe?

    NOw that you see it was your buddy Ace (5.00 / 2) (#14)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 07:56:17 PM EST
    with the hate, now what say you.

    Thanks for pointing this out (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by andgarden on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 08:07:33 PM EST
    What a disgusting display of violent homophobia. Reminds me why we need to marginalize the Confederate mentality.

    Not what they think (5.00 / 3) (#21)
    by Zeno on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 08:17:16 PM EST
    Duodenum? They think gay guys have duodenal sex? Geez. I guess when you have your head that far up your ass, it must seem feasible.

    Yeah, (5.00 / 2) (#53)
    by LarryE on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 11:24:14 PM EST
    I noticed that, too. Funny how often being right-wing matches up with ignorance and fantasies of violence.

    Parent
    Hate is the glue that keeps the rightwing (5.00 / 4) (#28)
    by Geekesque on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 09:02:38 PM EST
    movement together.

    Hatred of immigrants.

    Hatred of Muslims and Arabs.

    Hatred of homosexuals.

    Ugly, ugly stuff.  Reminds me of the worst stuff I heard in junior high locker rooms in my deeply racist and homophobic community.

    Geekesque (1.00 / 2) (#33)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 09:50:53 PM EST
    BTW - You do understand the status of  gays and lesbians in the Islamic faith, don't you??

    It make's your junior high locker room look real tame....

    Parent

    Quick, look over there! n/t (5.00 / 2) (#35)
    by andgarden on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 09:57:02 PM EST


    Parent
    Wingnuts: Less horrifying than the Taliban. (5.00 / 4) (#71)
    by Geekesque on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 06:29:48 AM EST
    Heckuva slogan, Brownie.

    Parent
    And (none / 0) (#38)
    by Edger on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 10:01:59 PM EST
    over there.

    Parent
    Mostly self hatred (none / 0) (#36)
    by Edger on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 09:58:52 PM EST


    Parent
    You try so hard (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by Edger on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 09:36:24 PM EST
    But you don't understand
    Just what you'll say
    When you get home

    Because something is happening here
    But you don't know what it is
    Do you, Mister Jones?

    Jim if you lied (5.00 / 2) (#59)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 11:33:20 PM EST
    and I called you a liar, why on Earth would I apologize for that?

    Tony Snow is a liar.

    So is Talex.

    I think you are a confused person. I have not called you a liar that I recall.

    BTD (1.00 / 1) (#62)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 11:40:40 PM EST
    BTD, I am referring to your general tone and demeanor. You make some interesting points but I think you run off as many readers as you attract.

    And I didn't infer that you were describing violent fantasies, just that you are loose with the lie word and the attacks.

    That, to me, doesn't help anybody or anything. And no, I'm not perfect, either.

    And I wasn't also referring to just you.

    Parent

    Jim (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 11:54:52 PM EST
    Whether I attract or repel readers is a subject for Jeralyn and I to discuss.

    I am FORTHRIGHT with the lie word. I call lies lies and liars liars.

    I repeat, I do not believe I ever called you a liar, not because I was to polite to do so, but because I have not encountered an error of yours that It hought was intentional.

    Parent

    Subtle. (none / 0) (#73)
    by Edger on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 07:19:27 AM EST


    Parent
    Oh, good. (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by oculus on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 11:56:49 PM EST


    you can blame me (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 01:25:09 AM EST
    for cleaning up the comments here.  Personal attacks and insults to other commenters are not appreciated or allowed.

    Thanks, Jeralyn. (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by Edger on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 07:17:10 AM EST


    Parent
    you going to keep Reynolds (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by Zappatero on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 12:29:00 PM EST
    on your blogroll?

    Parent
    Absolutely (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 12:59:41 PM EST
    I have no problem with Glenn and sometimes agree with him. He's more of a libertarian than a conservative.  


    Parent
    My eyes, they are a-rollin'. (1.00 / 1) (#3)
    by Gabriel Malor on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 06:37:21 PM EST
    BTD, wow. If you think Ace hates gay people, you obviously haven't been reading him for long. Glorified violence? Violent hatred? Where in Ace's post does he glorify violence or display violent hatred?

    Molly, in response to your number 1, I give you a piece of the Greenwald post that started it all:

    There are few things more disorienting than listening to Rush Limbaugh declare himself the icon of machismo and masculinity and mock others as "wimps." And if you look at those who have this obsession -- the Chris Matthews and Glenn Reynolds and Jonah Goldbergs and Victor Davis Hansons -- what one finds in almost every case is that those who want to convert our political process and especially our national policies into a means of proving one's "traditional masculine virtues" -- the physically courageous warriors unbound by effete conventions -- themselves could not be further removed from those attributes, and have lives which are entirely devoid of such "virtues."

    As for number 2, I had to look up who Roy Cohn was, so yeah, I was clueless as to his ideology.

    As far as numbers 3 and 4 go, yeah that was supposed to be funny.  Use of the word "pork" as a verb and the phrase "rompin'-stompin' Clydesdale-clompin' 180 proof sex" should have been your cue to reach for your sense of humor.

    And I hate to post and run, but I've got a plane to catch. Ta-ta, and try not to let it get too farcical as you hate on the "violent haters" of the Right.

    If you don't know who Roy Cohn was you may wish to (5.00 / 4) (#6)
    by jerry on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 07:08:58 PM EST
    reconsider your knowledge of American and World History, especially those elements that inform your conservative outlook.

    Parent
    only (5.00 / 3) (#8)
    by taylormattd on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 07:20:39 PM EST
    a delusional right wing bigot would read that dreck by (the oh-so-butch) Ace of Spades and find it "humorous" rather than virulently homophobic.

    Parent
    a few points (5.00 / 3) (#13)
    by Molly Bloom on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 07:42:08 PM EST
    1. The quote is damning, but not of Glenn Greenwald. Read it carefully. What is Greenwald saying: Those who call others wimps live in glass houses. Don't like it? Don't live in a glass house.

    2.  If Ace didn't know who Roy Cohn was, he probably shouldn't use him in smear attempt. Your attempt to justify it by proclaiming your own ignorance on the subject is a baffling non-sequiter.

    3. The active phrase in your post is was supposed to be funny.  
      "`Please,' Bush whimpers, his lips pursed in mock desperation, `don't kill me,' "
      was supposed to be funny. Bush thought showing pictures of himself bending over to look around furniture in the Oval Office as he made quips like, "nope, no weapons over there!" was supposed to be funny as well.  I'll bet you wonder why the The 1/2 Hour News Hour failed and the Daily Show has been a success. Its not a liberal conspiracy. Its called humor and the lack thereof.



    Parent
    The violent hate is here (5.00 / 4) (#16)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 07:58:35 PM EST
    Not that I'm saying homosexuality is incompatible with masculinity, of course. Consenting biweekly to having one's duodenum battered with the manic hydraulic fury of a tricked-out V-12 jackhammer manned by an epileptic Con-Ed worker with an ancestral oath of vengeance against asphalt would, I think, tend to butch one up, at least as regards one's pain threshold.

    Oh right, it was the quote in the post.

    Sheesh Gabe, are you a gay basher too?


    Parent

    I can't say what needs to be said (5.00 / 3) (#18)
    by andgarden on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 08:06:42 PM EST
    to you while adhering to the posting guidelines.

    If you don't know who Roy Cohn was and what he continues to represent, then you live a life ignorant of 20th century American politics.

    Parent

    Come on, andgarden. (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by Edger on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 08:48:53 PM EST
    Cut the guy some slack will you?

    It has nothing to do with 20th century American politics.

    Parent

    Only slightly OT: (none / 0) (#23)
    by oculus on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 08:53:27 PM EST
    have you seen the play Bent?

    Parent
    I haven't, no. Worth it? (none / 0) (#26)
    by Edger on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 08:59:46 PM EST


    Parent
    Yes. Movie, not so much. (none / 0) (#29)
    by oculus on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 09:10:13 PM EST
    Seeing Bent is when I first learned that Hitler sent gays to the camps and exterminated them.  

    Parent
    I read at the wiki article (none / 0) (#30)
    by Edger on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 09:21:43 PM EST
    It must have been quite a moving (& outraging) stage play...

    Parent
    Yes. I first saw the play (none / 0) (#40)
    by oculus on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 10:17:18 PM EST
    in the 1980s, about the era of the first plays involving dealing with HIV/AIDS.  Not sure when it was written.

    Parent
    1979 apparently (none / 0) (#43)
    by Edger on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 10:37:32 PM EST
    Richard Gere was in the
    original Broadway production.... The play is based on The Men with the Pink Triangles, the testimony of camp survivor Hans Heger.
    Wikipedia: Bent

    Parent
    Not all that sorry I missed Richard Gere. (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by oculus on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 10:42:27 PM EST


    Parent
    clueless as to his ideology (5.00 / 0) (#25)
    by Edger on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 08:58:54 PM EST
    Cohn? Ideology?

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.. HA. Roy Cohn? Ideology?

    I've never heard of Cohnism before. But I know what it means.

    Parent

    Eye rolling (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by Alien Abductee on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 11:32:31 PM EST
    You can't seriously be defending the violent sexualized homophobia in that attack piece.

    Parent
    This stuff is pretty mild for Glenn Reynolds (1.00 / 1) (#79)
    by Edger on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 11:34:54 AM EST
    He does his best to fan fear and hatred regularly, and seems to have ambitions of elevating himself to Pat Robertsons perverse levels.

    Back in February he was calling for assassination campaigns.

    He figures that government sanctioned and executed murder of Iranian scientists and clerics should be included in the foreign policy toolbox.

    Good plan, Glenn.

    Should be a cakewalk to sell to the suckers. Sorry, I mean to the peasants.

    The bonus is that when the Iranians retaliate they'll become terrorists who attacked unprovoked, thus justifying the WOT.

    Of course.

    They're backwards radical Islamofascist extremists bent on world domination, who are simply incapable of understanding that being hated and murdered by knuckledragging radical Christofascist extremists is done for their own good.

    What don't they get?

    Ingrates.

    Easy to see the violent hate but (none / 0) (#17)
    by oculus on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 08:05:48 PM EST
    difficult to follow the relationship between the linked blogs unless one reads all these blogs enough to already know the characteristics of each.  Kind of a shorthand for those in the know.  Flow chart needed.  [Actually, I just spent 20 minutes searching for the word in Boris Bittker's corporate income tax course that stood for degree of interrelationship between corporations for corporate income tax purposes; substitute for "flowchart" above, please.]

    TalkLeft links to Insty (none / 0) (#32)
    by Zappatero on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 09:49:35 PM EST
    on the "Daily Fix" list. So does Huffington Post. Wassup with that?

    Paying attention. (none / 0) (#34)
    by Edger on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 09:51:53 PM EST


    Parent
    See--it is very confusing for us (none / 0) (#41)
    by oculus on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 10:18:16 PM EST
    newspaper readers!

    Parent
    Touche! Heh. (none / 0) (#42)
    by Edger on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 10:33:00 PM EST


    Parent
    Please note the poster's reference (none / 0) (#49)
    by oculus on Sun Jun 17, 2007 at 11:20:08 PM EST
    above to slander.  I guess you were right after all.  

    Parent
    Been there, done that (none / 0) (#78)
    by Repack Rider on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 10:00:02 AM EST
    I stumbled across Instapundit early in my blogging days.  I read it a few times and realized that the author was an idiot with delusions of adequacy.  There was no "there" there.  As cheap as electrons are, he found a way to waste them.  I figured that out on my own, with no input from "liberal" blogs.

    And I have not given him the satisfaction of clicking on his link since.

    Parent

    I saw it in a different light - (none / 0) (#76)
    by scribe on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 09:23:31 AM EST
    like the author of that post was merely putting out a pretty-descriptive personals ad.  Like he wanted to be specific.

    But, what do I know?

    Maybe :-) (none / 0) (#77)
    by Edger on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 09:39:23 AM EST


    Parent
    Hate? (none / 0) (#82)
    by moderateone on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 11:00:52 PM EST
    I am trying (so far successfully) to maintain a neutral stance on this election. I disagree with much of what Bush has done, though I don't believe he intentionally lied about it. I also disagree with much of the left on many issues.

    This election however, seems to be as much about mudslinging at the other side as it does actually providing for the viability of our nation in the future.

    To me, politics on both sides are going beyond their limits as platforms for issues and ideals into a world where issues do not really matter.

    I personally think that this has gone to far, our country is currently sinking into a economic and cultural abyss. A decline that partisan politics won't solve.

    Forget views on abortion and that other crap, those are important issues to be sure, but our country is dying, and I am sick of a president who will not fix it and a congress too split to even try. Forget these wars of hatefull words, please, you are a fine writer whose talent could be put to use saving us, not destroying us (no insult intended, I am refering to not just you, but the blogging community as a whole) wars won't save us, and welfare won't save us, making America strong economically will. Perhaps this is a little too off-topic....

    whoops (none / 0) (#83)
    by moderateone on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 11:02:13 PM EST
    apparently this is an old topic. my bad

    The Ugly Face of the Right Blogs | 67 comments (67 topical)