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Howard Dean: Dems Risk Losing Congress If They Don't End War

Sure to enrage Beltway Dems and some in the Netroots, Howard Dean speaks some truth:

The American people hired Democrats last November to ensure that we end this war," Dean said during the weekly Democratic radio address. "So let me be clear, we know that if we don't keep our promise, we may find ourselves the minority again."

Are you sure "we know" Governor Dean? I am not sure that is true. I hope it is.

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    Geez (none / 0) (#1)
    by squeaky on Sat Jun 09, 2007 at 12:41:16 PM EST
    I hope that he has some influence over the Dems and the pork that they seem to be to be salivating over.

    I hope he has some influence (5.00 / 5) (#2)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jun 09, 2007 at 12:54:30 PM EST
    over progressives and the Netroots.

    Parent
    I Hope (1.00 / 2) (#6)
    by talex on Sat Jun 09, 2007 at 01:20:33 PM EST
    people read the entire article so they can get the full context of what he was saying. I don't know why one sentence was left out of the original post but it is an important one:

    In response, he proposed that the "one way to truly ensure we end this war" was to elect a Democrat as president in 2008.

    That surely changes what it is being implied he said.

    So he is not talking about being the minority in 2008 at all if we don't end the war.

    Let me say that again:

    He is not talking about being the minority in 2008 at all if we don't end the war.

    He is saying that we may need to win the WH in 2008 in order to end the war.

    Dean said what he did today in The Democratic Radio Address (a "fact" left out of the original post here). To put his words in total context let's read more of what he actually said:


    The Democratic candidates for president all stood united and firmly committed to responsibly ending the war in Iraq. This week, they each spoke passionately against any misguided stay-the-course plan that keeps our men and women in uniform policing a civil war.

    The Democratic candidates have made it clear that they will not ignore the will of the American people and our military experts.

    Democrats in Congress have stood up to this President and fought hard to keep him accountable. They passed a bill that established benchmarks with consequences and set deadlines to bring our troops home.

    But the President vetoed it.

    The American people hired Democrats last November to ensure that we end this war. So let me be clear, we know that if we don't keep our promise, we may find ourselves the minority again.

    But we have to face the reality that Republicans in Congress are standing with President Bush as he stubbornly wields his veto pen in the face of overwhelming opposition to this war from the American people.

    Democrats in Congress will continue to work hard to hold the President accountable and to pressure him to responsibly end this war. We want to ensure that we refocus our military efforts on fighting terrorist networks which are resurging in Afghanistan and that our brave troops have the resources they need both on the battlefield and when they come home.

    But there is one way to truly ensure we end this war.

    Elect a Democratic president in 2008.

    There is one way to ensure that we have a commander in chief who understands that America needs a defense policy that is tough and smart, and ensures an effective strategy to keep America safe at home and around the world.

    Elect a Democratic president in 2008.

    He message is clear. We will continue to fight to end this war but if unsuccessful we need to Elect a Democratic president in 2008.

    Highlighting of Dean's words are mine. Go to the link provided to read or listen to the entire radio address.

    Parent

    A dishonest chatterer (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jun 09, 2007 at 01:26:40 PM EST
    You prove again why you have been classified as such.

    ONE way to ensure ending the war has nothing to do wit the threat of being in the minority in Congress.

    We do not hold the Presidency now but are the majority in Congress.

    As usual, you lie to be intentionally provocative.

    It does not surprise me that you do. We limit your dishonesty to 4 comments a day so you are now done for the day.

    Parent

    OT (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by Sailor on Sat Jun 09, 2007 at 02:44:33 PM EST
    A dishonest chatterer
    Umm, I agree, but ppj holds that crown on this site.

    Why one but not the other?

    Parent

    Every town (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by Edger on Sat Jun 09, 2007 at 02:48:44 PM EST
    needs one.

    Parent
    My Guess (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by squeaky on Sat Jun 09, 2007 at 03:01:01 PM EST
    Friends or family in high places. No pun intended given that there is a NORML conference this wknd.


    Parent
    Don't see the connection with NORML though. (none / 0) (#23)
    by Edger on Sat Jun 09, 2007 at 03:26:04 PM EST
    Maybe I'm not high enough? ;-)

    Parent
    OK (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by squeaky on Sat Jun 09, 2007 at 03:39:51 PM EST
    Pun Intended

    Parent
    More to the point, extreme DTs setting (none / 0) (#24)
    by oculus on Sat Jun 09, 2007 at 03:27:59 PM EST
    in after cold turkey cessation of news on Paris Hilton.

    Parent
    Okaaay... (none / 0) (#26)
    by Edger on Sat Jun 09, 2007 at 03:40:00 PM EST
    Now I'm lost completely. Obviously I'm out of my league here. ;-)

    Parent
    Friends in High Places (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by squeaky on Sat Jun 09, 2007 at 03:45:47 PM EST
    not to mention:
    High Altitude (ASPEN = 7,930 feet)

    Just a few words of advice to make your trip to high altitude more enjoyable.

    link

    Parent

    Heh! (none / 0) (#28)
    by Edger on Sat Jun 09, 2007 at 03:46:31 PM EST
    Go ahead. Rate it. Drive the last nail in. I can take it. Really! ;7(

    Parent
    ppj (none / 0) (#34)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jun 09, 2007 at 04:25:45 PM EST
    and the goingson around him predate my arrival.

    Talex followed me here.

    I drew a line with him be cause he was my responsibility so to speak.

    Parent

    Squeaky, edger, BTD and Sailor... (none / 0) (#50)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jun 09, 2007 at 07:40:57 PM EST
    Well, it only took you 10 off topic comments to claim that I am a chatterer.....

    That's not a record, but it sure is a good average..

    ;-)

    Glad to be of service, people. Come back anytime.

    BTD - You should treasure Talex... he makes you readable.

    Parent

    talex (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by Edger on Sat Jun 09, 2007 at 01:38:14 PM EST
    Emphasizing is fine if it is not done with the intention of misleading.

    one way to truly ensure we end this war" was to elect a Democrat as president in 2008.

    There is a faster way to end it. And a guaranteed way. A way that will, as a side effect, probably ensure that the democrats win next year, and avoid losing because they didn't end it.

    Not fund the occupation.

    You appear to have a hard time grasping this, judging by all your past comments here, but the goal here is to end the occupation. The goal is not simply a win for the democrats next year.

    Your goal, again judging by all your past comments here, is a win for the democrats, at any price. You're a neocon, IOW.

    Dean was by no means saying, as you try to imply, that the only way to end the occupation is by electing a democrat.

    Dean's main concern (that you try to gloss over) is that democrats will lose next year if they do not end the occupation before then.

    Parent

    Again from Howard Dean, talex (none / 0) (#12)
    by Edger on Sat Jun 09, 2007 at 02:10:16 PM EST
    that you tried to de-emphasize and bury in your spin attempt:
    The American people hired Democrats last November to ensure that we end this war. So let me be clear, we know that if we don't keep our promise, we may find ourselves the minority again.

    But we have to face the reality that Republicans in Congress are standing with President Bush as he stubbornly wields his veto pen in the face of overwhelming opposition to this war from the American people.

    How close are you now to your fantasy of a veto proof majority, talex?

    And just how long would you expect the American people to refrain from firing them if they don't do the job they were hired to do: stop paying for and END the occupation?

    Parent

    Why do you even (none / 0) (#22)
    by Stewieeeee on Sat Jun 09, 2007 at 03:21:32 PM EST
    Try??

    Parent
    If lying is trying (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jun 09, 2007 at 04:24:41 PM EST
    then you have a point.

    How come you don't lie Stewie?

    Parent

    Yes (none / 0) (#8)
    by squeaky on Sat Jun 09, 2007 at 01:35:48 PM EST
    At least, you'd think. They don't seem to be listening to you.

    Parent
    But more are every day (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by Edger on Sat Jun 09, 2007 at 02:01:15 PM EST
    Both of the premises which Alter sets forth here are correct: (a) de-funding does not even arguably constitute "endangerment or abandonment of the troops," but (b) "Americans have been convinced that it does." And therein one finds what is the most extraordinary and telling fact of our political landscape. Namely, our Iraq war policy was just determined, in large part if not principally, by a complete myth: that de-funding proposals constitute an abandonment or, more ludicrously still, "endangerment" of the troops.
    Greenwald

    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#3)
    by Edger on Sat Jun 09, 2007 at 12:57:43 PM EST
    Much as I don't want to see the republicans control congress again, if the democrats won't end the occupation by next year they don't deserve to be anything but in the minority.

    I guess will depend on how successful the selling of bullsh*t and lies is.

    The point is not what we want (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jun 09, 2007 at 01:02:41 PM EST
    Of course you don't want the GOP controlling Congress.

    It is just what would be more likely to happen.

    Parent

    I know. (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by Edger on Sat Jun 09, 2007 at 01:07:53 PM EST
    There are people who would, and do, use that evaluation to justify selling bullsh*t and lies in the hope of retaining congress.

    I do my best to marginalize them. Too.

    Parent

    e.g. See talex' comment above (none / 0) (#10)
    by Edger on Sat Jun 09, 2007 at 01:41:28 PM EST
    Talex needs his/her own blog. (none / 0) (#13)
    by oculus on Sat Jun 09, 2007 at 02:36:49 PM EST
    Heh. (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by Edger on Sat Jun 09, 2007 at 02:39:54 PM EST
    Wouldn't help him, I think. He wants attention. ;-)

    Parent
    Which maybe means (none / 0) (#29)
    by Edger on Sat Jun 09, 2007 at 03:50:59 PM EST
    Hoyer is feeling a little insecure these days?

    Parent
    Daily Kos (none / 0) (#15)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jun 09, 2007 at 02:40:35 PM EST
    is just the place for him.

    Why they oppose primaries now dontcha know? The cooptation process is now complete.

    Parent

    Love that word! (none / 0) (#19)
    by oculus on Sat Jun 09, 2007 at 03:04:58 PM EST
    I invented it! (none / 0) (#40)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jun 09, 2007 at 05:25:01 PM EST
    That's for sure (none / 0) (#21)
    by Stewieeeee on Sat Jun 09, 2007 at 03:10:39 PM EST
    This talkleft thing is of one mind on this issue.


    Parent
    Stewiie (none / 0) (#32)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jun 09, 2007 at 04:23:45 PM EST
    I am pretty sure you are of another mind.

    And yet, here you are. Can you explain it?

    Parent

    Reid/Feingold (1.00 / 1) (#36)
    by Stewieeeee on Sat Jun 09, 2007 at 05:09:14 PM EST
    or else you get the BTD!

    Parent
    Stewie (none / 0) (#39)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jun 09, 2007 at 05:24:38 PM EST
    Stop the Talex imitation.

    I'l be deleting further comments in this vein.

    Parent

    And all the people (none / 0) (#20)
    by Stewieeeee on Sat Jun 09, 2007 at 03:05:50 PM EST
    who will then go without health care can all go f**k themselves cause we're a one issue party.


    Parent
    Urge the PArty to not take that step.

    Parent
    It wil be your fault (none / 0) (#31)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jun 09, 2007 at 04:23:01 PM EST
    if they don't Steewiee!!!

    See? That is how ridiculous you sound.

    Parent

    Do you realize (1.00 / 2) (#35)
    by Stewieeeee on Sat Jun 09, 2007 at 05:08:01 PM EST
    What big self-righteous piece of crap you sound like?

    You are a detriment to your cause.


    Parent

    Stewie (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jun 09, 2007 at 05:23:23 PM EST
    Two things. One, I was mimickng you. Two, let's keep this on a relatively civil plain.

    You do not get to be a doppelganger for Talex.

    You can express the same opinions of course but stick to the facts and stick to the topic.

    I won;t delete this comment. But the next one will be deleted and then you will be recommended for chatterer status.

    I really do not want that. You are in no way comparable to Talex, generally making cogent arguments that I disagree with. I think you make a big contribution here.

    But if you become like Talex, we'll have to deal with that.

    Parent

    you are never (1.00 / 1) (#41)
    by Stewieeeee on Sat Jun 09, 2007 at 05:27:27 PM EST
    civil.

    Parent
    Stewieeeee (1.00 / 1) (#45)
    by Edger on Sat Jun 09, 2007 at 05:55:43 PM EST
    You generally don't post lies about what other commenters have said or misrepresent their statements, or post simply to be annoying, as talex did.

    Heh. Well, for the most part, anyway. (I can be annoying at times too)

    Parent

    When did you arrive? (none / 0) (#46)
    by oculus on Sat Jun 09, 2007 at 06:25:05 PM EST
    Today? (none / 0) (#47)
    by Edger on Sat Jun 09, 2007 at 06:30:39 PM EST
    39 and counting. (none / 0) (#48)
    by oculus on Sat Jun 09, 2007 at 06:38:10 PM EST
    36 (none / 0) (#49)
    by Edger on Sat Jun 09, 2007 at 06:41:39 PM EST
    oops, 37

    Parent
    Civlity begets civility Stewiie (none / 0) (#43)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jun 09, 2007 at 05:31:31 PM EST
    Let's start with a clean slate.

    You be civil and call me on not being civil to civil responses.

    That's fair isn't it?

    Parent

    relatively civil (none / 0) (#44)
    by squeaky on Sat Jun 09, 2007 at 05:46:49 PM EST
    civil

          snip

     2: not rude; marked by satisfactory (or especially minimal)
            adherence to social usages and sufficient but not
            noteworthy consideration for others; "even if he didn't
            like them he should have been civil"- W.S. Maugham [syn: polite]

    works better with the qualifier.

    Parent

    ok, let me see if i have this straight: (none / 0) (#51)
    by cpinva on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 05:28:32 AM EST
    according to talex, if the dems don't end the US occupation of iraq, right now, this very instant, the voters will put back in office...........................the guys that started this horrorshow to begin with? is that about right?

    not to suggest i wouldn't mind them ending it right this very instant, but i think the average voter is savvy enough to realize that which has taken 4 years to totally screw up isn't going to be fixed overnight, especially when the dems hold only the barest of majorities in both houses, and face certain vetoes from bush.

    Mandates (none / 0) (#52)
    by Lacy on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 07:12:58 AM EST
    The 2006 election was pretty remarkable. Democrats (or at least people smart enough to reject GWB policies) won virtually every attainable race. The interesting thing is that dramatic aggregate victory came with many "squeeker" races with very small victories.

    Many people were definitely fed up with the direction the country was going under GWB/GOP rule and voted accordingly. A majority had realized the Iraq war was a big mistake and voted accordingly. But do we remember 2004 and GWB's 50.73% "mandate", and his claim that just by winning he had earned "political capital" and would be exploiting it? Does anyone really want to mimic Bush "reasoning"?

     It is in fact an unverified leap to assume voters think exactly like yourself about ending the US actions in Iraq just because a majority it was a terrible mistake. The public finally agreed in many close races that Bush is dangerous, which means just that. But on cleaning up the mess GWB has made, the realities are far more equivocal.

    I am 100% confident that I could ask poll questions and show that large majorities today oppose any US actions that would leave Iraq vulnerable to forces and factors that could be a future threat to the US. And many who see Iraq as a terrible mistake are still voting GOP and would like nothing better than to see an intervening misque by Democrats that would shift responsibility away from Republicans.

    We are now living the predictible consequences of a stupid invasion of Iraq, one of which was that it would lead to an unresolvable quagmire. Claiming any quick or simple resolution is just so "Bush-like". The greatest risk to thinking Americans (and derivitably to the US) today is reempowering the GOP by appearing to cause the next stage disaster in Iraq. The thinking person's burden is not an easy one.

    Tell it to Hoawrd Dean (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 11:39:48 AM EST
    Nancy Pelosi, et al.

    They agree with me as to the meaning of the 2006 election.

    I ask that they act in accordance with their beliefs.

    Parent

    A Better Way (none / 0) (#54)
    by Lacy on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 04:52:43 PM EST
    I believe the preferred way to express that would be to say "I agree with" the specified leader(s), which is the way the Senators and Congressmen I warned in 2002-03 about Iraq brushed off their support or acquiescence to GWB policy by saying "I support the president". But it isn't a question of agreeing, but of underlying truths.  

    The same applies to polls. GWB attacks polls simply because they don't say what he wants, but it can also be wrong to follow them just for that reason. A short while back, a single poll showed 60% willing to accept abortion as a woman's right but, in that same poll, nearly 55% were willing to say abortion is murder. You must examine the questions asked and the underlying truths to assess what people polled believe, and even then it may be equivocal.

    Voicing opposition today to the Iraq war typically means believing it was wrong to start and/or wishing it never had occurred. Anyone would agree that he/she wants the troops to come home. But it is a dangerous political error to manipulate those factors to create a false impression the public would support immediately getting out, OR to believe the public would not turn on your party with a vengence when disastrous consquences occur, whether predictible or not.

    Actually, the most diabolical GOP solution to the Republicans' Iraq mark of shame would be to let outraged Democrats dictate a precipitous withdrawal, and then to just let nature take its course. I hope they're not that sinister (or smart). Because the corrolary to the pottery barn rule is that if you jerk it away from someone and it comes apart, you own the broken pieces. Forever. The public knows well now the Bush problem and will support Democrats as long as they act responsibly (Kevin Drum's point the other day, I believe.)

    Bush squandered the silver platter 9-11 presented him. Democrats don't yet have his failed opportunity.  But something like it will come after 2008 when a Democratic president and Congress apologize to the world for the shame of Bush, and work well with others to clean up the mess. And yes, some Americans will continue to die in Iraq for another year because of Bush's folly, but far fewer than from precipitous withdrawal, regional upheaval, and a forced UN/US reengagement in a widespread conflict.

    Parent