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Immigration Failure: Who's at Fault?

I agree with Jane and John Amato of Crooks and Liars: The Republicans blocked the immigration reform bill and voters will remember that when its time to go to the polls.

I wasn't happy with the bill because it was too onerous on the path to legalization and too disrespectful of principles of family reunification.

Yet, there's no doubt that Republican xenophobes killed immigration with their false insistence that it was an amnesty bill. And voters are likely to make them pay. Republicans are the biggest losers in the debate:

Hispanics represent the fastest-growing chunk of the American electorate. Their choices help drive the rising swing states of presidential politics: Colorado, Nevada, Arizona, and New Mexico.

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  • Display: Sort:
    as a Dem over 40 yrs (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by Cptsalesman on Sun Jul 01, 2007 at 09:47:21 PM EST
     I continue to scratch my head in Democratic thread that continue to ignore how bad this bill was for the average American worker. They were and should be the base of the Party. My Grandpa taught me the difference between a Republican is that Republicans care about Big Business and Money and the Democratic Party cares about the Worker and the people. We seemed to have drifted away from that definition.

     Please don't get me wrong, I'm all for legalization, and most the other stuff, but the H1-b visa and the like are bad. Our trade practices are killing the middle class. If we take care of our own workers, they will welcome the others.

    Cpt (1.00 / 0) (#20)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jul 01, 2007 at 11:32:56 PM EST
    the Democratic Party cares about the Worker and the people. We seemed to have drifted away from that definition

    Uh, not to pick a fight but I figured that out over 30 years ago..

    Now, come on over to the Dark Side and register as an Independent.

    Parent

    Ummm (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by jarober on Sun Jul 01, 2007 at 11:27:25 PM EST
    Some of us opposed the bill on the simple grounds that:

    -- most Senators had not read it
    -- The Senate leadership tried to push it through before anyone had a chance to read it
    -- at 373 pages, we assumed that anything that big being rushed probably had plenty of things worth being against

    Bottom line - this was a bill that the elites (of both parties) wanted, while many Americans would like to not see a re-run of the 1986 debacle.

    Show me your bark (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by joejoejoe on Mon Jul 02, 2007 at 03:03:08 AM EST
    Colin McEnroe of the Hartford Courant addresses immigration:
    ""This has nothing to do with skin color. It has to do with following the rules," said Tetannett. "Did they petition the council of chiefs? Did they bring us five deer? I am totally about process - not skin color - and these people do not go through the process. They show up on their boats and immediately they want us to bring them squash and corn and turkey, because they lack the basic tools to fend for themselves, so they're starving and cold and sick. We have people who are here legally who do not get free corn and squash and turkey."[...]

    We're kicking around some kind of point system. They'd get a point, for example, if they had fishing skills or knew our language. They'd have to go back across the ocean and apply for a Special Otter Permit, then they could come back and work under the otter program for eight seasons, accumulating more points. Then they would be hawks. Eventually, after 40 seasons, if they didn't break any of our laws or excessively get on our nerves, we would make them human beings."



    Cheap labor supporters risk electoral demise (5.00 / 0) (#27)
    by fafnir on Mon Jul 02, 2007 at 09:57:07 AM EST
    A Democracy Corps poll conducted by Stan Greenberg and James Carville found that public support for the cheap labor amnesty bill was weak:

    • "Voters were far more likely to support proposals that would tighten the border and stop illegal immigrants from getting government benefits than efforts to legalize the estimated 12 million people living in the country illegally."

    • The pollsters stated, "We do not find very much voter support for the comprehensive Senate bill."

    • "Democratic voters split 47 percent for and 37 percent against after hearing a description of the Senate bill, while most independents and Republicans opposed it."

    • Testing what they called `demagogic attacks' on the compromise - labels of amnesty and proposals to make English the official national language - the pollsters called them "not effective."

    For me, this fight was about fairness and enforcing existing laws to protect American workers from being dispossessed of occupational opportunities by corporate interests. The elected officials who pushed this horrible bill against the will of the people are the ones who may pay a price.

    Correction for bullet 3 (none / 0) (#30)
    by fafnir on Mon Jul 02, 2007 at 11:45:10 AM EST
    "Democratic voters split 47 percent for and 47 percent against after hearing a description of the Senate bill, while most independents and Republicans opposed it."


    Parent
    So, who benefits from the status quo maintaining? (4.00 / 1) (#24)
    by SeeEmDee on Mon Jul 02, 2007 at 07:08:45 AM EST
    As an IT worker who's fortunate in that the company I work for requires US citizenship because of all the government contracts it has (and thus must pay a decent salary), I can't help but feel that if more corporations did so, the middle class wouldn't be as threatened with extinction as it is right now.

    When so much of American business is dependent upon IT, and with so many IT workers here on H-1B visas - and incidentally driving down the value of an advanced (college) education and/or technical training for born Americans, thus reducing their chances for a higher paying job and a better standard of living - I have to wonder why American businesses have placed themselves in such a  vulnerable position by hiring people whose only stake in the system is whatever they can get out of it before they return to their home countries.

    Granted, so long as the H-1B spigot remains open, there'll always be a supply of cheap technical labor, but for how long will this system remain in place if the economy itself begins to suffer...as it may already be? (Unemployed workers can't buy fancy widgets stamped with "Made in China".) Somebody must like things just the way they are, and doesn't want anybody upsetting their golden apple cart, thank you very much.

    et all (1.00 / 0) (#2)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jul 01, 2007 at 07:30:12 PM EST
    The Republicans blocked the immigration reform bill and voters will remember that when its time to go to the polls.

    Given that a huge majority of Americans opposed it, I would say that the Repubs are hopeful.

    A huge number of white southerners (none / 0) (#3)
    by andgarden on Sun Jul 01, 2007 at 07:46:36 PM EST
    oppose regularizing illegal immigrants. Elsewhere, the situation is rather different.

    Parent
    link please. (4.00 / 1) (#6)
    by Wile ECoyote on Sun Jul 01, 2007 at 09:00:03 PM EST
    Everywhere else was ok with it?  Please link

    Parent
    Good grief (1.00 / 0) (#9)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jul 01, 2007 at 09:25:16 PM EST
    The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey found that just 22% of American voters currently favor the legislation. That's down a point from 23% a couple of weeks ago and down from 26% when the debate in the Senate began. Fifty percent (50%) oppose the Senate bill while 28% are not sure.

    Your bias is showing.

    Link


    Parent

    Your response to J was not a response (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by andgarden on Sun Jul 01, 2007 at 09:31:01 PM EST
    And it will be noted that I was not talking about opposition to this particular bill.

    Parent
    andgarden (1.00 / 1) (#18)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jul 01, 2007 at 11:29:24 PM EST
    The poll was about this particular bill. Read the link.

    Her comment said that the Repubs will be remembered for what they did.

    My comment was simple. With a huge majority (78%) against it the Repubs hope that they are remembered as having stopped this bill.

    Parent

    Where is (1.00 / 1) (#23)
    by Wile ECoyote on Mon Jul 02, 2007 at 06:34:33 AM EST
    your link backing up your statement that everybody else but evil white southerners are good to go with illegals?

    Parent
    Excellent strawman. n/t (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by andgarden on Mon Jul 02, 2007 at 08:12:59 AM EST
    Got (1.00 / 1) (#31)
    by Wile ECoyote on Mon Jul 02, 2007 at 01:27:14 PM EST
    links?

    Parent
    wile (1.00 / 1) (#26)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jul 02, 2007 at 08:43:33 AM EST
    Simpler

    Quit asking hard quesions.

    ;-)

    Parent

    Where is your link and your quote (none / 0) (#34)
    by Edger on Mon Jul 02, 2007 at 05:08:06 PM EST
    of Andgarden saying that?

    Parent
    Ask and receive (1.00 / 1) (#35)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jul 02, 2007 at 10:10:04 PM EST
     
    A huge number of white southerners (none / 0) (#3)
    by andgarden on Sun Jul 01, 2007 at 07:46:36 PM EST
    oppose regularizing illegal immigrants. Elsewhere, the situation is rather different.


    Parent
    Excuse me. (5.00 / 0) (#36)
    by Edger on Mon Jul 02, 2007 at 10:55:08 PM EST
    ONE - no one was talking to you.

    TWO - That is not what wile claims Andgarden said.

    THREE - Go back under your bridge. You're making a fool of yourself again.

    Parent

    This spells trouble for them (none / 0) (#1)
    by andgarden on Sun Jul 01, 2007 at 07:29:13 PM EST
    in Texas. Not today, not tomorrow, but in my lifetime.

    Hispanics (none / 0) (#4)
    by koshembos on Sun Jul 01, 2007 at 08:33:24 PM EST
    I am with Jeralyn; Hispanics will remember the Republican disregard of them for a long time. Others may be against the bill, but for them it will be a minor issue.

    One thing is not clear to: what's wrong with amnesty to hard working families who have built their home in this country?

    Let me see. (1.00 / 0) (#10)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jul 01, 2007 at 09:28:45 PM EST
    The Demos had control of the Senate...

    Yet they bear no responsibility....??

    Wow. That pegs the giggle meter.

    Parent

    dems don't have control of the senate ... (none / 0) (#29)
    by Sailor on Mon Jul 02, 2007 at 11:13:17 AM EST
    ... they have 48 members. Your knowledge of our congress is surprisingly sparse.

    Parent
    Get your facts straight before ripping others; (none / 0) (#33)
    by Pancho on Mon Jul 02, 2007 at 04:37:49 PM EST
    the Democrats have 49 members plus Lieberman and Sanders, who is a socialist- not likely to be voting with the Republicans.

    Parent
    So (none / 0) (#5)
    by Wile ECoyote on Sun Jul 01, 2007 at 08:59:18 PM EST
    it is an amnesty bill.  

    Parent
    If it is all about (none / 0) (#32)
    by Pancho on Mon Jul 02, 2007 at 04:05:51 PM EST
    "hard working families" then why was Cornyn's amendment voted down, which would have deinied legalization to the following:

    1) absconders (i.e., aliens already ordered deported);
    (2) aliens deemed inadmissible or deportable as security risks (e.g., terrorists);
    (3) aliens who fail to register as sex offenders;
    (4) aliens convicted of certain firearms offenses;
    (5) aliens convicted of domestic violence, stalking, crimes against children, or violation of protection orders;
    (6) alien gang members; and
    (7) aliens convicted of at least three DUIs.

    Parent

    I don't mean to be overly possessive ... (none / 0) (#7)
    by Sailor on Sun Jul 01, 2007 at 09:04:04 PM EST
    ... but it's "who is" or "who's" not "whose."

    thanks (none / 0) (#19)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Jul 01, 2007 at 11:31:29 PM EST
    i fixed it

    Parent
    vocabulary (none / 0) (#8)
    by bronco214 on Sun Jul 01, 2007 at 09:07:15 PM EST
    Just being a jerk but, isn't it who's not whose? Still love ya anyway!

    Republicans aren't losing any sleep (none / 0) (#12)
    by B on Sun Jul 01, 2007 at 09:34:50 PM EST
    Republicans and Democrats are jointly responsible. Hispanics won't mobilize against Republicans any more than blacks have been mobilized by Republican vote fraud in Florida and Ohio and negligence in New Orleans. Neither party addressed full employment at living wages for all who are lawfully in the US or workable deterrents for (1) people unlawfully employing illegal aliens or (2) aliens unlawfully entering the US or violating their admission terms.

    you ask for a lot (none / 0) (#15)
    by Baal on Sun Jul 01, 2007 at 09:50:27 PM EST
    No political party in the history of any country on the planet has successfully addressed the issue of full employment for all at living wages.  The difference here and now is that the GOP doesn't see it as a worthwhile goal even in theory.

    Parent
    those are these or these are those (none / 0) (#13)
    by Baal on Sun Jul 01, 2007 at 09:47:03 PM EST
    Somebody beat me to the who's vs whose issue.  Lawyers should certainly do better.  Just sayin'.

    I hope you are right about the voter response to the death of the immigration bill, my guess is that the odds would tend in that direction.

    I'm with Jeralyn (none / 0) (#16)
    by LonewackoDotCom on Sun Jul 01, 2007 at 10:52:37 PM EST
    The GOP blocking this bill is going to really hurt them with the Hispanics (as Dick Morris calls them). All Hispanics - regardless of CofO - fully support illegal activity and think we should have a race-based immigration policy.

    Plus, those 22% that favored the Senate bill will form a mighty force. A mighty force! BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA!

    This is like drug wars w/too many special (none / 0) (#21)
    by Yes2Truth on Mon Jul 02, 2007 at 01:23:23 AM EST

    interests salivating at the thought of millions

    of new customers, CLIENTS, patients,

    probationers, parolees, PRISONERS, higher rent

    or all, higher food costs, higher social costs

    and on and on.

    And it's one, two, three, what are we fightin'

    for?  Answ:  see above.

    And the loser is:  folks in the middle and lower

    classes.

    This hate-on for the mobility of individuals ... (none / 0) (#28)
    by Ellie on Mon Jul 02, 2007 at 10:36:43 AM EST
    ... over borders is occurring parallel to recent stealth measures to ease corporate mobility over borders, for the apparent, express purpose of tapping resources out from under populations without their permission and say-so.

    I trust no immigration bill without full public disclosure and transparency of info regarding any expansion of corporate rights, from the top-down, to move over borders and transnationally.

    Aside from the serious questions about human rights, labor issues and obvious environmental concerns, I don't like the corporate halitosis off what seriously smells in this bait and switch.

    This call for an angry mob to go after the cartoon bad guy du jour (Mexicans) is too pat, dumb and clearly made to measure for an upcoming election. I hope the votership takes long, deep breath and brains with more expertise on corporate mobility unearth the three card monte at play there.