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Travel Day, Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Wed Jul 25, 2007 at 10:15:28 AM EST
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I'm off to the airport for a hearing in another state tomorrow. See you all back here Friday. Here's an open thread.

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    Travel Day, Open Thread | 42 comments (42 topical)

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    Poor Billo (5.00 / 0) (#20)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jul 25, 2007 at 01:55:54 PM EST
    Nothing is more dangerous than a bunch of free thinkers using their powers of original thought and all on the same page.  When the orange place gets done with him today there is still tomorrow as well.  Bill O'Reilly has pulled off some stuff that blew up in his face before but I think this one has nuke potential.......at least a bunker buster.

    Tracy (1.00 / 0) (#32)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jul 25, 2007 at 07:45:38 PM EST
    What are they going to do??

    Not watch him?

    Excuse the giggle.

    Parent

    Is there any rule of TL that ppj ... (5.00 / 0) (#39)
    by Sailor on Wed Jul 25, 2007 at 10:38:32 PM EST
    ... can't break and still post here?

    Personal insults- Check
    Off topic diatribes - Check
    abusive and racist - Check

    I've got about 100 links where he violated at least one of your rules.

    So Jeralyn please inform all of us why ppj can violate your rules repeatedly yet still not be banned or limited to 4 posts per day.

    The Towers are still falling (none / 0) (#1)
    by Sailor on Wed Jul 25, 2007 at 11:09:13 AM EST
    WTC LAWYER THE 'DEVIL'S ADVOCATE'

    One of the high-priced lawyers who have sucked $47 million out of the $1 billion World Trade Center insurance fund is infamous for defending companies that manufactured Agent Orange, a pregnancy drug linked to cancer, and defective breast implants. James Tyrrell, a partner in the law firm Patton Boggs, is hailed in legal circles as the "master of disaster" and the "devil's advocate."

    Ward Churchill has been fired... (none / 0) (#2)
    by roy on Wed Jul 25, 2007 at 11:38:22 AM EST
    for "research misconduct".

    That [Eichmann] essay sparked an internal investigation and revelations about Churchill - including that his hiring bypassed most of CU's normal processes for awarding tenure and that he had no proof of his claimed American Indian ancestry, which was the foundation of his hiring.

    Ultimately, a CU faculty committee charged Churchill with inaccurately describing historical facts in some of his writings.

    The professor also was accused of plagiarizing other authors in his writing. In one case, he was shown to have lifted several passages from a pamphlet on native fishing rights in Canada for his own publications.

    If those accusations are basically correct, good riddance to him.  Making offensive, but protected, statements shouldn't exempt one from having to do one's job properly.

    firebrand Ward Churchill (none / 0) (#4)
    by Sumner on Wed Jul 25, 2007 at 12:07:58 PM EST
    Well, if you don't know, you could start here or here or here.

    Parent
    "All day Tuesday, (none / 0) (#5)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Jul 25, 2007 at 12:23:12 PM EST
    the school's University Memorial Center was a chaotic medley of dispirited students donning homemade white T-shirts supporting Churchill, throngs of TV cameras following the professor on his smoke breaks, and campus brass wandering around making sure everything was orderly.
    Had this happened at my school when I was a student, I'd probably have been completely on his side. Now that I'm, erm, a little older, I think he's a horse's a$$. Plagiarizing and lying about his ancestry, what a class act.

    Parent
    imho... (none / 0) (#7)
    by roy on Wed Jul 25, 2007 at 12:40:08 PM EST
    The Eichmann essay that kicked this of was disgusting, misguided, and clearly protected from government reprisal.  The media lynching was an appropriate response, any disciplinary act from CU would not have been.  I don't think he even should have had to step down as head of his department, though it's never been clear to me how much that was his idea and how much it was his bosses'.

    The ethnic angle was interesting.  He was hired, in part, because he was supposedly Indian.  It makes sense that maybe he should be fired if he's not.  But CU's policies say that a person only needs to claim that he belongs to an ethnic group in order to belong to it in CU's eyes.  They can't retroactively change their policies to make it easier to get rid of a controversial employee.

    Plus, I happen to be part Cherokee, and I've had some minor hassles because I don't have any official proof of it.  After growing up in Oklahoma, I know it's not an unusual problem to have, so it wouldn't surprise me a bit if Churchill really is part Indian.

    But the plagiarism and dishonest in his research... that's what wins him a spot in my "good riddance" book.  College professors aren't supposed to do that.  If they do it a lot, they aren't supposed to be professors any more.

    Parent

    A horse's a$$ and a plagiarizer and dishonest (none / 0) (#11)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Jul 25, 2007 at 12:50:59 PM EST
    researcher. Great creds for a college prof. Next thing you'll tell me is that he's a smoker too. Oh.

    Parent
    Regarding Ward Churchill's (none / 0) (#15)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Jul 25, 2007 at 01:30:02 PM EST
    ancestry.
    [snip]

    Joshua Tyner lived a long and fruitful life and produced many descendants - including University of Colorado professor Ward Churchill, whose disputed claims of Indian ancestry are tied to yet another family legend:

    The one that says Joshua Tyner was part Cherokee.

    However, an extensive genealogical search by the Rocky Mountain News identified 142 direct forebears of Churchill and turned up no evidence of a single Indian ancestor among them - including Joshua.

    The News also located two male descendants of Richard Tyner - Joshua Tyner's father - who underwent DNA tests last year. The tests showed that the Tyner line goes back to northern European ancestry with no hint of male Indian blood.

    [snip]

    Churchill has said that he is either 1/16th or 3/16ths Cherokee from his mother's side, while also claiming Creek Indian heritage on his father's side. But he has battled complaints for years - mostly from within the American Indian activist community - that he isn't Indian at all.

    [snip]

    In any case, Churchill is descended from Richard and Richard's first wife, variously called Eliza Jane, Elizabeth and Abigail on family trees, through their son Joshua.

    Even if Joshua's mother was a full-blooded Cherokee, something for which there is no supporting evidence, Churchill, as her fifth- great-grandson, would have only a tiny fraction - 1/128th - of Indian blood, not close to the 1/16th or 3/16ths he claims.

    [snip]

    If it all came from [Churchill's] mother, as he has sometimes said, she would have to be nearly half Indian herself.

    But all of Churchill's 16 great- great-grandparents are known. Not a single one was a full-blooded Indian, nor is there evidence any were part Indian.

    [snip]

    CU, however, could have cause for action if it found the legends are untrue and that Churchill knew it, Pimple said.

    "I should think that in general, intentionally lying about one's credentials, which in this case might reasonably include ancestry, would be considered academic misconduct," Pimple said. "The key is demonstrating, by an appropriate standard of evidence, intent to deceive."

    [snip]



    Parent
    regarding the last bit about "intent" (none / 0) (#17)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Jul 25, 2007 at 01:42:13 PM EST
    Churchill reported last month to the CU committee that he meets three of the four criteria for determining whether he is Indian.

    Those three criteria are self-identification as an Indian, acceptance within the Indian community, and tribal affiliation - none of which require proof of Indian parentage.

    The one test he didn't cite: naming an actual Indian ancestor.



    Parent
    suo (1.00 / 0) (#36)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jul 25, 2007 at 08:06:34 PM EST
    Perhaps this is the reason he decided to not bring the subject up.

    The American Indian Movement Grand Governing Council representing the National and International leadership of the American Indian Movement once again is vehemently and emphatically repudiating and condemning.....

    ....Churchill's statement that these people deserved what happened to them, and calling them little Eichmanns, comparing them to Nazi war criminal Adolf Eichmann, who implemented Adolf Hitler's plan to exterminate European Jews and others, should be condemned by all.

    The sorry part of this is Ward Churchill has fraudulently represented himself as an Indian, and a member of the American Indian Movement, a situation that has lifted him into the position of a lecturer on Indian activism. He has used the American Indian Movement's chapter in Denver to attack the leadership of the official American Indian Movement with his misinformation and propaganda campaigns.

    Ward Churchill has been masquerading as an Indian for years behind his dark glasses



    Parent
    a veritable (none / 0) (#22)
    by Sumner on Wed Jul 25, 2007 at 02:15:48 PM EST
    Bloc Party

    Parent
    WOW=WOT (none / 0) (#24)
    by squeaky on Wed Jul 25, 2007 at 02:23:08 PM EST
    Nice..... Somethings never seem to change no matter how civilized people claim to be.

    Parent
    I'm still (none / 0) (#16)
    by Deconstructionist on Wed Jul 25, 2007 at 01:39:00 PM EST
      trying to get my head around the idea that possessing certain ethnic/racial bloodlines could conceivably be considered a job qualification for academic employment at a public  university in the United States of America in the late 20th Century.

     

    Parent

    Did you Miss (none / 0) (#18)
    by squeaky on Wed Jul 25, 2007 at 01:49:50 PM EST
    Harvard President Lawrence Summers speech? Well believe it or not well into the late 20th century Harvard et al had a very homogeneous faculty in many departments. Still does.

    Despite 30 years of affirmative action, and contrary to public perceptions, the American faculty profile, especially at preeminent universities, remains largely white and largely male.

    link

    Parent

    First, (none / 0) (#21)
    by Deconstructionist on Wed Jul 25, 2007 at 02:04:55 PM EST
      the issue should not be the sex or ethnicity of faculty but their scholarship and teaching ability.

      Second, even those who value or disvalue  humans primarily in terms of their race or ethnicity and are  obsessed with race and ethnicity  as the defining characteristic of human beings should focus on channeling their racism into increasing and promoting the pool of qualified candidates who contain what they consider  the "right" racial or ethinc backgrounds rather than making possessing certain racial or ethnic backgrounds a job qualification.

       

    Parent

    Couldn't Agree More (none / 0) (#23)
    by squeaky on Wed Jul 25, 2007 at 02:17:23 PM EST
    First the issue should not be the sex or ethnicity of faculty but their scholarship and teaching ability.


    Parent
    Then perhaps (none / 0) (#8)
    by Sumner on Wed Jul 25, 2007 at 12:42:03 PM EST
    a sign of the times

    I am a true believer that the US Government wages pogroms.

    Many of us first learned of the Government's secret Cointel operation because of the research and disclosure by Ward Churchill, years ago.
    The planned downfall of Ward Churchill has been years in the making.

    Parent

    Fired for "Little Eichmans" (none / 0) (#6)
    by Peaches on Wed Jul 25, 2007 at 12:37:25 PM EST
    Whether or not you were insulted by his "Little Eichman" comment in his essay, it was ruled he could not be fired for this due to Free speech protections. The movement to get him fired was strong, however and the subsequent questioning of his scholarship and ancestry was done in retaliation for his political views -imo. Democracy Now as an interview with Churchill today.

    Regents of the University of Colorado for accepting, in full knowledge at this point, a non-scholarly sham of an investigative report, creating the pretext. And I say "non-scholarly" because the university has withdrawn the entire investigative report from any scholarly scrutiny. They refuse to allow it to be subject to scrutiny by competent scholars. And there are research misconduct complaints in place at this point against the members of the investigative committee for serial plagiarism, wholesale falsification, outright fabrication -- in other words, fraud. It's a fraudulent finding.

    So there is no defensible scholarly conclusions that anything I've said in my writing is even inaccurate, much less fraudulent, or that I committed the so-called plagiarism. All they've got is public outrage in the form of very well-organized rightwing, active-style lobbying blocks, and the statements of public officials, and so on, saying I should be removed as the basis for removing me.



    Parent
    They wre going to get (none / 0) (#9)
    by jondee on Wed Jul 25, 2007 at 12:44:28 PM EST
    Churchill for something after it became such a marvelous political grandstanding oppurtunity even if it took going through his trash cans or the pockets of his dirty laundrey.

    Another interesting, under-reported plagiarism case is the one involving Mr. Chutzpah himself, Alan Dershowitz.

    Parent

    jondee (1.00 / 0) (#35)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jul 25, 2007 at 07:57:46 PM EST
    Here is one example of his work.

    Parent
    If... (none / 0) (#13)
    by roy on Wed Jul 25, 2007 at 01:03:57 PM EST
    Given all the layers of who said what when and where and hand-wavey definitions of terms, it may well be that his scholarship is adequate.  My own amateur impression is that it's not, and I don't think that he's immune to legitimate scrutiny just because it was preceded by illegitimate scrutiny.

    Now he says "they refuse to allow [the investigative report] to be subject to scrutiny by competent scholars" even though it's on the web and thus subject to scrutiny by everyone on the planet.

    And what about these complaints against members of the committee?  Are they A)related to their investigation of Churchill, and B) true?  If not, he's not justified in saying they establish the findings as fraudulent.  

    It seems like Churchill is grasping at straws, but it was a short interview maybe he just didn't have time to go into detail.

    Parent

    Scholaly, (5.00 / 0) (#25)
    by Peaches on Wed Jul 25, 2007 at 02:24:07 PM EST
    A cursory review of the lengthy report gives me an amateurish impression that the allegations of falsification and fabrication are merely disagreements over conclusions on some very controversial topics regarding the US treatment of American Indians in the past. It will be interesting to hear other scholars weigh in on these allegations. I suspect Churchill was referring to scrutiny before the committee reached its findings and recommended his firing. His lawsuit should bring the scholarly scrutiny he is seeking.

    The allegations of Plagiarism also does not seem to be strongly supported, though I can see why he may be questioned. I think reasonable people could come to different conclusions and I'll also be interested to hear what others in academia will say about it. Certainly, his scholarship is being  much more closely scrutinized than most other professors and the abundance of his writings -most of which is not subject of any allegations or scrutiny and considered groundbreaking and scholarly - is controversial and critical of the power-elites. Thus, I think he is being persecuted for his politics. I will be interested to see how this turns out though.

    Your salutation of Good riddance might be a little premature, though. I doubt this is the last we will hear from him and his writings and influence will likely increase. CU would rather no have to keep hearing from all the ditto-heads and O'Riellyites over the Liberal and anti-American Academic and University system. They would rather face the wrath of free speech liberals and potential lawsuits for the damage done to Churchill's name through these firings than lose more support from the regents and the resulting loss of funds for the University coming in.

    Parent

    Peaches (1.00 / 0) (#34)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jul 25, 2007 at 07:51:03 PM EST
    I have often said that anyone should have the right to speak their mind.

    And be fired if their employer decides that are offensive, incorrect, dishonest, etc...

    It works for the rest of us, why should college professors with an agenda be any different??

    BTW - How's the garden? We be freezing and canning..

    Parent

    So teachers can be fired for wearing crosses? (none / 0) (#37)
    by roy on Wed Jul 25, 2007 at 09:04:59 PM EST


    Parent
    Roy (1.00 / 0) (#38)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jul 25, 2007 at 09:49:41 PM EST
    If that is against the rules, yes IMO.

    And moslem cab drivers can lose their licenses

    It's a job. You don't like the rules, find another.

    Parent

    Garden (none / 0) (#40)
    by Peaches on Thu Jul 26, 2007 at 09:05:54 AM EST
    It's going well, thank you.

    One of the pleasures of gardening are the expected surprises. It happens a little later up here in the north country, but last night I was inspecting the cucumber vines. I do it every year and every year I inspect a little closer so I can get that first cucumber. I see the flowers and the vines have climbed to the top of the trellis, so I know it will be soon. Then I see some little tiny beginnings of a cucumber and I start getting excited. But, somehow, through all those days of inspecting - a cucumber grows unnoticed and last night I found 6 that had grown to sizes past the prime pickling stage. No matter, because I sliced 'em up added a little vinegar, salt and pepper and ate em all up. Same thing seems to happen every year with the green beans - been picking a bushel full a day since Sunday.

    We are going to start canning, freezing and pickling this weekend.

     

    Parent

    The lessons of McCarthy for Bush (none / 0) (#3)
    by Dadler on Wed Jul 25, 2007 at 11:52:19 AM EST
    I posted this in another thread, but it was pretty well buried, and who knows if anyone will see it.  But I looked at this clip again today, and it still has the power it's always had.  

    If only the oppostition party in this country could garner the nads to do what Army counsel Josephy Welch did to Sen. Joe McCarthy in 1954.  Note the shots of young Roy Cohn, who seems to react with discomfort and/or nausea at each of his boss McCarthy's remarks about him.

    dadler (1.00 / 0) (#33)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jul 25, 2007 at 07:47:50 PM EST
    I thought I had used that line on you.

    If not, I should have.

    ;-)

    Parent

    Welch's nads (none / 0) (#10)
    by jondee on Wed Jul 25, 2007 at 12:49:57 PM EST
    may have had something to do with the fact that McCarthy was going after people in the Pentagon, Dadler. Classic case of psychotic overreaching if there ever was one.

    Parent
    Yep (none / 0) (#19)
    by Dadler on Wed Jul 25, 2007 at 01:52:46 PM EST
    And still, with Bush's psychotic overreaching, no challenge is really offered.

    Parent
    Spawn of Satan, the Cheney's (none / 0) (#12)
    by Aaron on Wed Jul 25, 2007 at 12:54:06 PM EST
    This is a must read for anyone who wants a first-hand account of Dick and Lynne Cheney eating babies

    From Tinfoil Viking Science

    Take that Bill O'Reilly! :-)

    Aaron (1.00 / 0) (#31)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jul 25, 2007 at 07:44:12 PM EST
    Your contribution is amazing.

    Are you also aware that these denizens of the night may now be recording your every thought?

    Parent

    Wrong (none / 0) (#43)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jul 26, 2007 at 12:00:46 PM EST
    That was my evil twin, Light Avenger.

    Parent
    Stick it to CNN (none / 0) (#14)
    by LonewackoDotCom on Wed Jul 25, 2007 at 01:09:14 PM EST
    If you want to let CNN know what you thought of their selections for the Youtube debate, please watch and rate this 1 second video that simply says "CNN's choice of questions for the debate really sucked".

    If it gets enough views, it will send a message to CNN that they should choose better questions next time around.

    The Tour de France (none / 0) (#26)
    by Peaches on Wed Jul 25, 2007 at 04:17:01 PM EST
    What in God's name? Why are riders continuing to take the risk?

    A second rider tested positive and another team has withdrawn today. Spectators booed Rasmussen as he won his second stage today. I really watched the tour closely over the span of Armstrong's tenure, but following last year's fiasco with Landis and now all the riders testing positive or admitting use in the past before and during this year's tour.... You really got to wonder how Armstrong was able to remain at the top of the class for so long, especially with his main rivals also having a suspicious cloud over them (Urich, Basso,)

    I think it's been a fabulous tour... (none / 0) (#29)
    by Aaron on Wed Jul 25, 2007 at 05:32:12 PM EST
    ... the most exciting in years.  Without Lance Armstrong it's actually up in the air, who is going to win.  It was up for grabs until today, and there are some great new riders coming up, Cantado for example.  That kid could be the next superstar of the tour once he's matured a bit.

    Lance Armstrong really was superhuman, as far as cyclists go, he did everything so well, climbing, time trials, the flats, it didn't matter he was the kind of cyclist that comes along once in a hundred years.  It's too bad he didn't have anyone who was close to his level as an athlete and as an organizer, something which he was also exemplary at, creating a team which could win.

    Parent

    and cheating w/o getting caught? (none / 0) (#41)
    by Peaches on Thu Jul 26, 2007 at 09:10:47 AM EST
    I think it is obvious to everyone now, including Cantada, this year's tour was a farce and after Last year's Landis charges - Armstrong's legacy as a super athlete is in doubt.

    Parent
    Cuz he's an American (none / 0) (#27)
    by Deconstructionist on Wed Jul 25, 2007 at 04:22:20 PM EST
     and a Texan to boot. Even all them dirty Eurotrash dopers couldn't contend with good ol' American hard work. Them foreigners is just jealous cuz Lance could beat them without cheatin,  and all 999,000 pieces of evidence suggesting otherwise is just malicious propaganda fabricated by them no good European cheaters.

    The only evidence that counts (none / 0) (#28)
    by Pancho on Wed Jul 25, 2007 at 04:52:54 PM EST
    is a failed blood test and there were not any. I don't know if he cheated or not, but your little mockery of Americans was quite offensive.

    Parent
    Also in the world of sports.... (none / 0) (#30)
    by kdog on Wed Jul 25, 2007 at 05:35:41 PM EST
    Considering all the black-eyes the sports world is dealing with (nba fix scandal, Mike Vick, Barry Bonds to name a few), we should take note of one of the good guys.  

    Curtis Martin, the greatest NY Jet of all time (no offense Broadway Joe), will officially announce his retirement tomorrow.  Curtis Martin always did things the right way and with class.  Lacking the natural abilities of other great running backs, Curtis is the 4th leading rusher of all time thanks to pure grit, determination, and work ethic(all imho).  

    Thanks for the memories #28.

    Travel Day, Open Thread | 42 comments (42 topical)

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