Katrina, two years later

By Last Night in Little Rock, Section Huricanes Katrina and Rita
Posted on Wed Aug 29, 2007 at 09:45:53 AM EST
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Two years ago, we burned up this website with postings about Katrina and the debacle of the government's response. How far have they (we) come?

CNN, MSNBC, and Fox had the best live coverage, and the public knew more than the government. The best coverage anywhere: The New Orleans Times-Picayue. Even when they couldn't a publish a print edition because their printing press was flooded, they published a massive number of stories online, and they had a depth of coverage and understanding that only a local could have.

More....

I still have Spike Lee's HBO "When the Levees Broke: A Requiem in Four Acts" on my TiVo, and I'm watching it tonight. It was heartbreaking to watch Lee's masterpiece the first time, but I couldn't bring myself to erase it. Now I'm glad I didn't.

I'm also TiVoing CNN's Anderson Cooper 360 tonight.

As citizens, we have a duty to revisit Katrina and the aftermath. It tells us volumes about government and its failures to protect us from a known danger. One can only ask: Why did the Bush Administration do so little, so late? The events of August 2005 remind us of four years and one month earlier when the government had warnings of another potential disaster.

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Katrina, two years later | 25 comments (25 topical)

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I had driven through New Orleans (5.00 / 1) (#1)
by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 29, 2007 at 01:02:13 PM EST

about a week before Katrina on my way home from protesting at Crawford. In living through two huge blizzards in Colorado Springs in my lifetime and both times having Army troops out of Fort Carson give aid I expected the helicopters to leave Fort Rucker AL as soon the first reports started coming in of a flooded New Orleans and people standing on roof tops. Even my husband took part in relief efforts in Colorado Springs last blizzard where they landed Army helicopters in Walmart parking lots that were clear enough and loaded up mostly prescriptions and baby formula and some diapers and air dropped them to residents living East of the city and literally buried in snow. If you could get to a phone the Army would help. At Fort Rucker though pilots asking what was happening where they were concerned and when something was going to happen were told that Fort Rucker was standing down. The National Guard was handling this and George Bush's new creation of the U.S. Northern Command, which was his way of bypassing in the military all those by the book old boy networks that would ask too many questions all the time. Last year during hurricane season the Northern Command was quick to announce that Fort Rucker was on alert. At least something has changed for the better. Fort Rucker has amassed the nations largest supply of helicopters in North America. It is the home of Army Aviation and where you come to learn to fly and take every aviation career advancing course. Army pilots call it Mother Rucker. They were four hours from being able to stage in Mobile and help rescue civilians and drop food supplies but instead they paced the floors and watched the televisions until they grew numb from what they were seeing.

It was obvious to everyone who (none / 0) (#2)
by Pancho on Wed Aug 29, 2007 at 01:14:45 PM EST

was paying ANY attention at all that New Orleans was going to be in BIG trouble, at least a couple of days before Katrina hit. As difficult as it may have been for some to get out(this is debatable), was it really a better plan to expect to be rescued by helicopters after the fact? Even so, thousands of helicopter trips were made to rescue those who chose not to evacuate.

I remember telling my wife that New Orleans was going to be destroyed.Staying in the city was just plain stupid. It is unreasonable and highly arrogant to expect to protect a city that lies below sea level from a category five hurricane.


: The strength of Katrina (5.00 / 1) (#3)
by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 29, 2007 at 01:21:14 PM EST

was more than most expected down here. The strength of every hurricane the Gulf Coast has been hit with since has knocked the breath out of the people here. I'm not from here so I ask a lot of questions. I'm told that the new breed of hurricane we are now experiencing is a new experience for more than just me. So people who chose not to evacuate deserve to not be rescued? Is this really how low America has sunk? Is this really who we are now? A pack of self righteous @$$hole$?

Katrina was NOT (5.00 / 1) (#4)
by Pancho on Wed Aug 29, 2007 at 01:50:27 PM EST

stronger than predicted:

ZCZC MIATCPAT2 ALL
TTAA00 KNHC DDHHMM
BULLETIN
HURRICANE KATRINA SPECIAL ADVISORY NUMBER 22
NWS TPC/NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER MIAMI FL
7 AM CDT SUN AUG 28 2005
...KATRINA...NOW A POTENTIALLY CATASTROPHIC CATEGORY FIVEHURRICANE...HEADED FOR THE NORTHERN GULF COAST...
A HURRICANE WARNING IS IN EFFECT FOR THE NORTH CENTRAL GULF COAST
FROM MORGAN CITY LOUISIANA EASTWARD TO THE ALABAMA/FLORIDA
BORDER...INCLUDING THE CITY OF NEW ORLEANS AND LAKE PONTCHARTRAIN.A HURRICANE WARNING MEANS THAT HURRICANE CONDITIONS ARE EXPECTED
WITHIN THE WARNING AREA WITHIN THE NEXT 24 HOURS. PREPARATIONS TO
PROTECT LIFE AND PROPERTY SHOULD BE RUSHED TO COMPLETION.

I'm not talking about predictions (5.00 / 1) (#8)
by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 29, 2007 at 01:58:21 PM EST

I'm talking about generations of gulf coasters who sat out hurricanes for decades. When was the last time the Gulf Coast was hit with a Cat 5? Also, since when have the hurricanes had eyes with such low pressure.........see the Cat score isn't everything there is to a hurricane, that is only an indicator of wind speed......the lower the pressure at the eye center is an indicator of the overall power the storm contains and has stored but that fact was sorely missing in all news reports at that time. It is my understanding that no hurricanes to date have had such low pressure in the eye. It is still missing from most news reports today and the only reason why I undestand that is because I live an hour from the Gulf Coast and we have been asking a lot of questions since Katrina.


: Heh Wrong (1.00 / 1) (#18)
by jimakaPPJ on Wed Aug 29, 2007 at 03:34:41 PM EST

On the 1-to-5 Saffir-Simpson scale, Katrina was a midlevel Category 3 hurricane at landfall. Its barometric pressure was 902 millibars (mb), the sixth lowest ever recorded, but higher than Wilma (882mb) and Rita (897mb), the storms that followed it. Katrina's peak sustained wind speed at landfall 55 miles south of New Orleans was 125 mph; winds in the city barely reached hurricane strength.

: New Orleans had not had as serious (none / 0) (#20)
by Pancho on Thu Aug 30, 2007 at 08:36:57 AM EST

of a Hurricane threat in decades, so if the residents expectations were so markedly different from the forecast, they are just plain stupid. I would understand if there had been many false alarms over the years, but I know nothing like Katrina had been headed for New Orleans in at least the 20 years that I have been paying attention.

And, of course, (none / 0) (#6)
by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Aug 29, 2007 at 01:56:44 PM EST

you never said anythying remotely like "people who chose not to evacuate deserve to not be rescued"

MT was way off base.


: Oops, our posts crossed. (none / 0) (#7)
by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Aug 29, 2007 at 01:57:50 PM EST

Carry on.

The levees are the federal govt's responsibility (5.00 / 1) (#21)
by Dadler on Thu Aug 30, 2007 at 11:37:22 AM EST

And they neglected and shirked that responsibility for years. Since the breach of those levees is what caused the worst of it, the federal gov't should take much of the blame. Blaming the poorest and least educated among for being victims of both a natural disaster and a man-made one (the neglect of the levees by the gov't) is beyond absurd and is simply cruel and inhumane.

This gov't is half a trillion in the hole doing exactly what our founding fathers explicitly warned us against. A decision was clearly made. Iraq was more important than New Orleans. And continues to be.

Next time a tornado hits I'll remember to blame those who lose everything, and cheer for those who have everything. Sure, that sounds right.

There's a great article from (5.00 / 0) (#25)
by tnthorpe on Sun Sep 02, 2007 at 12:21:04 AM EST

Scientific American in 2001 that discusses the then potential catastrophe in great detail.

The scientists knew what needed to be done: "Humankind can't stop the delta's subsidence, and it can't knock down the levees to allow natural river flooding and meandering, because the region is developed. The only realistic solutions, most scientists and engineers agree, are to rebuild the vast marshes so they can absorb high waters and reconnect the barrier islands to cut down surges and protect the renewed marshes from the sea."

This, as we know, never happened.


Nonsense (1.00 / 1) (#22)
by jimakaPPJ on Thu Aug 30, 2007 at 10:50:52 PM EST

If you live in an area that is subject to flooding and if you don't demand your local officals to be sure the levees work then you, at best, haven't been paying attention.

If you are going to blame the lack of education and finicial condition as to why some didn't leave, and condemn government for NOT taking care of them, then you must condemn government for moving them back into harms way.


Good Lord, Jim, every one of us... (5.00 / 1) (#23)
by Dadler on Fri Aug 31, 2007 at 11:16:08 AM EST

...lives in an area at risk for a catastrophic natural disaster, whatever it is. New Orleans value historically and culturally is unmatched. it was treated like nothing more than a ghetto to be ignored.

Army Corps of Engineers failed.

No go continue blaming the least among us for suffering the fate of the least among us. Very Christ-like of you.

And I hope nothing happens your way that would leave you helpless and ignored by your government. Whether earthquake, blizzard, avalanche, supervolcano eruption, whatever.


: What are you talking about? (1.00 / 1) (#24)
by jimakaPPJ on Sat Sep 01, 2007 at 11:16:45 PM EST

Look at what actually was done.

Dozens of National Guard and Coast Guard helicopters flew rescue operations that first day--some just 2 hours after Katrina hit the coast. Hoistless Army helicopters improvised rescues, carefully hovering on rooftops to pick up survivors. On the ground, "guardsmen had to chop their way through, moving trees and recreating roadways," says Jack Harrison of the National Guard. By the end of the week, 50,000 National Guard troops in the Gulf Coast region had saved 17,000 people; 4000 Coast Guard personnel saved more than 33,000.
My point is that if you live 6 feet below sea level, you are going to get flooded.
That's part of it. And it's your job, not mine, to protect yourself.
And the Corp of Engineers didn't fail.

In 1965, the same year Hurricane Betsy swamped large sections of New Orleans (including the Lower Ninth Ward), the Army Corps of Engineers presented Congress with an audacious blueprint for protecting the city from a fast-moving Category 3 storm. The $85 million Barrier Plan proposed sealing off Lake Pontchartrain from the gulf with massive, retractable flood barriers. The goal: Stop storm surges 25 miles east of the levees that encircle New Orleans. After Betsy, the plan was expanded to include gates on two of the four drainage canals that slice into the city from Pontchartrain (two of which breached their floodwalls after Katrina). But, environmental groups objected to the impact that the Pontchartrain floodgates might have on wildlife and wetlands. The Sewer and Water Board of New Orleans vetoed gates on the canals. So the Corps instead built higher levees and floodwalls.
It looks like to me the tree huggers and bird lovers, in cooperation with the City Fathers are to blame.
And ignored?

I never said that people (2.00 / 1) (#5)
by Pancho on Wed Aug 29, 2007 at 01:55:02 PM EST

should not have been rescued; a massive operation rescued of thousands of people, most of whom could have evacuated on their own. All I'm saying is that people need to take responsibilty for their own actions or lack thereof. Why the hell didn't Nagin take charge of evacuation plans if these people were so damned helpless?

You know what Pancho (5.00 / 1) (#9)
by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 29, 2007 at 02:01:23 PM EST

when people are standing on rooftops it's time to send in the helicopters. That is what human beings do. End of discussion from the space I inhabit. I'm fine with everybody complaining about the stupidity of the rescued once they have been rescued. I'm sure those people wouldn't ever want to repeat the Katrina experience either so I'm not sure they need that much castigating though.


Tracy writes: (1.00 / 0) (#16)
by jimakaPPJ on Wed Aug 29, 2007 at 03:18:45 PM EST

End of discussion from the space I inhabit

Since you are dead wrong in your information, perhaps you will cease commenting???

Dozens of National Guard and Coast Guard helicopters flew rescue operations that first day--some just 2 hours after Katrina hit the coast.

See my comment below for link.

"The federal government pretty much met its standard time lines, but the volume of support provided during the 72-96 hour was unprecedented. The federal response here was faster than Hugo, faster than Andrew, faster than Iniki, faster than Francine and Jeanne."
Journalists complain that it took a whole week to do this. A former Air Force logistics officer had some words of advice for us in the Fourth Estate on his blog, Moltenthought:
"We do not yet have teleporter or replicator technology like you saw on 'Star Trek' in college between hookah hits and waiting to pick up your worthless communications degree while the grown-ups actually engaged in the recovery effort were studying engineering.
"The United States military can wipe out the Taliban and the Iraqi Republican Guard far more swiftly than they can bring 3 million Swanson dinners to an underwater city through an area the size of Great Britain which has no power, no working ports or airports, and a devastated and impassable road network.
"You cannot speed recovery and relief efforts up by prepositioning assets (in the affected areas) since the assets are endangered by the very storm which destroyed the region.
"No amount of yelling, crying and mustering of moral indignation will change any of the facts above."

Absolutely, (none / 0) (#10)
by Pancho on Wed Aug 29, 2007 at 02:09:19 PM EST

and they did, in a BIB way.


That's "BIG" not BIB (none / 0) (#11)
by Pancho on Wed Aug 29, 2007 at 02:09:42 PM EST

Yeah, it was such a smashing success (none / 0) (#12)
by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 29, 2007 at 02:19:04 PM EST

and they all arrived so speedily that that is why Fort Rucker is on alert now during Gulf Coast hurricane season?


You obviously have no idea (5.00 / 0) (#13)
by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 29, 2007 at 02:29:59 PM EST

how long it takes to fly a helicopter from Pennsylvania to the Gulf Coast. They don't fly like fixed wing helicopters. It took my husband on average two full days to fly from Fort Carson to Texas to deliver aircraft to be loaded for Iraq. Helicopters are very limited in bad weather or storms, they have to fly around them or sit them out. Yet a huge lump of experienced pilots familiar with the local air space and able to begin staging in Mobile AL in four hours were standing down while aircraft taking two and three days to even arrive was called in? Who's running that show? Oh Yeah, I forgot Brownie and Chertoff.


: Who said (none / 0) (#14)
by Pancho on Wed Aug 29, 2007 at 02:50:44 PM EST

it was a smashing success? I can tell you that it would have gone much more smoothly if they had not had to evacuate all the morons that ignored evacuation orders.
Would you have remained in New Orleans with your family in advance of Katrina?

Tracy (1.00 / 0) (#17)
by jimakaPPJ on Wed Aug 29, 2007 at 03:29:45 PM EST

Given that Ft Rucker is very close to the Gulf Coast I would say they are on hurricane alert at all times. As to when and why and what would be dispatched from here, I have no idea and neither do you.


Most of the damage was (1.00 / 0) (#19)
by jimakaPPJ on Wed Aug 29, 2007 at 03:42:17 PM EST

caused by the flooding, which was caused by a few actual breeches and several breeches that can be laid to the overtoping of the levees.

Some actual facts (none / 0) (#15)
by jimakaPPJ on Wed Aug 29, 2007 at 03:00:08 PM EST

The above link has a rather lengthy description of the many things that were done, and not done. Some selected quotes:

Dozens of National Guard and Coast Guard helicopters flew rescue operations that first day--some just 2 hours after Katrina hit the coast. Hoistless Army helicopters improvised rescues, carefully hovering on rooftops to pick up survivors. On the ground, "guardsmen had to chop their way through, moving trees and recreating roadways," says Jack Harrison of the National Guard. By the end of the week, 50,000 National Guard troops in the Gulf Coast region had saved 17,000 people; 4000 Coast Guard personnel saved more than 33,000.

REALITY: Though many accounts portray Katrina as a storm of unprecedented magnitude, it was in fact a large, but otherwise typical, hurricane. On the 1-to-5 Saffir-Simpson scale, Katrina was a midlevel Category 3 hurricane at landfall. Its barometric pressure was 902 millibars (mb), the sixth lowest ever recorded, but higher than Wilma (882mb) and Rita (897mb), the storms that followed it. Katrina's peak sustained wind speed at landfall 55 miles south of New Orleans was 125 mph; winds in the city barely reached hurricane strength.

In 1965, the same year Hurricane Betsy swamped large sections of New Orleans (including the Lower Ninth Ward), the Army Corps of Engineers presented Congress with an audacious blueprint for protecting the city from a fast-moving Category 3 storm. The $85 million Barrier Plan proposed sealing off Lake Pontchartrain from the gulf with massive, retractable flood barriers. The goal: Stop storm surges 25 miles east of the levees that encircle New Orleans. After Betsy, the plan was expanded to include gates on two of the four drainage canals that slice into the city from Pontchartrain (two of which breached their floodwalls after Katrina). But, environmental groups objected to the impact that the Pontchartrain floodgates might have on wildlife and wetlands. The Sewer and Water Board of New Orleans vetoed gates on the canals. So the Corps instead built higher levees and floodwalls.

When the Superdome was finally cleared, six bodies were found--not the 200 speculated. Four people had died of natural causes; one was ruled a suicide, and another a drug overdose. Of the four bodies recovered at the convention center, three had died of natural causes; the fourth had sustained stab wounds.