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The YKos Presidential Forum Lobbyist Exchange

TPM has the moment that is getting the most coverage from the YKos Presidential Forum.

Personally, I am skeptical about how important this issue is. I have been hearing about this stuff forever. But an entertaining exchange.

Update [2007-8-5 1:16:23 by Big Tent Democrat]: I do want to underscore a point I made in the Live Blog of the forum, having Matt Bai moderate was a grievous mistake. As Jane Hamsher states, and as a review of the forum and the coverage indicates, Bai's ego overran the forum and he clearly decided it would be the Matt Bai Forum, not the YKos Forum. The forum was pedestrianly okay, I thought the opening questions by mcjoan were excellent, but it was not a Blogger Presidential Forum imo.

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    I couldn't watch (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by BDB on Sun Aug 05, 2007 at 11:10:51 AM EST
    the entire thing.  I just got bored.  I don't think much new was said, and I went back and read summaries to see if I missed anything.  But then this was what the gazillionth forum in the last several months?  

    If they are going to continue to do these things I wish they'd have a narrower, deeper discussion.  I'd love to hear them talk for an hour or two just about Iraq.  I know Richardson has his one point plan and all, but how the hell do you move all those troops, while feeding and protecting them, in just a few months?  What would the residual forces that Clinton and Obama have hinted at actually do and how many would there be?  Does Edwards even talk about Iraq anymore?  I'm sure he does, but I haven't seen a lot of coverage.  Or they could do one on the economy or just health care or, hell, at this point I would love to hear them talk at length about the Constitutional issues (balance of powers, habeas, unitary executive theory, impeachment).  

    And I do think at some point they need to start weeding out some participants.  Mike Gravel is amusing and may have good things to say on some issues, although not a lot IMO, but he is not going to be the next President of the United States (neither is Dennis Kucinich) and who I really want to hear from and better understand are the folks who might be.  

    But these broad-based forum/debates just get them mostly recycling the same old sound bites and looking to gain by posturing.  Which is what I consider that lobbyist stuff to be - all of the frontrunners take money from corporate interests.  I honestly doubt that the Wall Street executives who back Obama or the trial lawyers who back Edwards have vastly different policy preferences on the issues facing their businesses than the lobbyists those same folks hire.  You either go with publicly financed campaigns (which all of the leading candidates seem to support) or you don't.  

    Shillarious (none / 0) (#1)
    by Miss Devore on Sat Aug 04, 2007 at 11:09:53 PM EST
    we'd be crazy to think her "frontrunner" status had anything to do with her "fundraiser" status.

    YKos (none / 0) (#2)
    by TomK on Sun Aug 05, 2007 at 01:16:43 AM EST
    Good debate.  I have to say, I like them all a hell of a lot.

    In particular, Sen. Dodd has come across as a very powerful champion of our causes, and every time I've seen him I've been incredibly impressed.  To me, he seems more and more like the most presidential one.  It's a shame he's an old white dude.  He's going to be a great secretary of state or something like that.  I want to see a lot more of this man in public service.

    Obama and Edwards are also just great.  Either one would be a great president.  I hope they get together, combine their operations, and flip a coin for who gets pres and vice pres.  Together, they are much stronger then Clinton

    Clinton is good.  However, I remember in my history class at high school George Washington declining to become king because he thought running, um, washington as a dynasty would be bad.  It seems like Mr. Washington's wisdom is lost on Mrs. Clinton (and most of the american population).  She's not bad, but given that there are some hundreds of millions of people in the country, we could maybe find someone who wouldn't cause 24 years of dynasty.

    Only Bill Richardson seems to be not great, among the top two tiers.

    I guess some idiot named Biden is also running, he is the only one I wouldn't vote for.

    I sat next to a very liberal social worker (none / 0) (#3)
    by oculus on Sun Aug 05, 2007 at 02:07:11 AM EST
    recently on a plane.  She's active in MoveOn, etc.  Would like to see a female President--mentioned Nancy Pelosi, but, like you, is worried about an American dynasty as to Hillary Clinton.

    Parent
    Hillary is her own (none / 0) (#4)
    by aztrias on Sun Aug 05, 2007 at 02:43:30 AM EST
    I would not equate Hillary's nomination, if it happens, as a sign of a Clinton dynasty.  John Adams and his son John Quincy Adams were early Presidents.

    For comparison, Elizabeth Dole is far less accomplished and successful than Hillary Clinton.  

    She's become one of our better, harder working Dem. Senators.

    Bill married an intelligent, hard working woman.


    Parent

    Why so?? (none / 0) (#14)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Aug 05, 2007 at 12:29:58 PM EST
    It's a shame he's an old white dude.


    Parent
    Giving (none / 0) (#5)
    by ding7777 on Sun Aug 05, 2007 at 06:37:10 AM EST
    an anti-Hillary moment the most coverage? Wow, that is news!

    McCain - CSPAN - Bai et. al. (none / 0) (#6)
    by RedHead on Sun Aug 05, 2007 at 08:00:34 AM EST

    1. check out Bryron York on CSPAN's morning show, when they put the video up on their site, it's a  riot, especially the kool-aid callers defending Hannity and Brit Hume.  

    2. ABC/Wapo poll has McCain tied for 4th in Iowa -- OUCH!  I can't see him raising more than $2 million this quarter.  He shouldn't even be raising that, but fat cats have been known to throw away good money.

    3. The Matt Bai thing is a weird.  He was a panel member last year.  And he didn't come off well, either.  Also, some time prior to that convention, he wrote a piece that was considered unduly negative for the Sunday magazine.  Makes one think of the "with friends like you.." line.  Makes one wonder why the fourm's organizers selected Bai (they might as well invited Kit Seelye).  Makes one wonder why someone as purportedly as intelligent as McJoan would allow someone - anyone - to overrun and run down an intended "Presidential Forum."

    4.  I don't think it's enough to simply drop conclusions, without any underlying reasons.  I Imagine if someone said Jeralyn had a "pedestrian" apperance on Geraldo's old show, she would be right in asking, "what makes you say that?"


    Crush Wurlitzer media in one easy slam (none / 0) (#7)
    by Ellie on Sun Aug 05, 2007 at 08:10:15 AM EST
    I hope one area where progressive thinking begins to bloom in '08 is replacing much of the predictable (and irritating) marketing with "YouTube" highlights like this, featuring Dem candidates mixing it up, for access and distribution by activists on a wide scale.

    And instead of the Monster Movie moustache twirling ad SAYING what a douche Felonious Q. Republican is, have a "lowlight" reel of the scumbag getting hoisted on his/her own petard. (BONUS: S/he looks like even more of a cheeseball complaining about negative advertising.)

    Make sure the voters know where they can access them online, OR make it available to them on portable media (like DVDs) to hand out to people who aren't Inner Netz friendly -- disseminate that from local offices.

    The Dem braintrust fixates on coming up with gazillion dollar consultant-derived hooey that grassroots are supposed to mindlessly repeat -- "Tuhgether, America can do better!" -- as if a phrase will magically enthrall (stoopid) voters' hearts and minds. This is geared to catching the attention of a potential viewer being in front of the teevee or radio, then persuading them in a flashy moment. The means of conveyance is neither effective nor cost efficient and the content is usually dumb.

    One reason the process needs to collect and spend massive amts of money is for paid lowest common denominator messaging that most people prefer to tune out -- with good reason! -- but for which there are few alternatives to find out about their choices in an election (eg, easily accessed smarter engagement.) MSM stinks and stump speeches have that flavorless, chewed over sound.

    This is more interesting, less insulting, and gives people a better sense of the candidates. Overall, it gives a better impression of the party and accumulates respect.* Even "negative" moments with fundamental disagreement are more engaging that idiot, exaggerated negative campaigning that plays like a bad parody of itself.

    Sadly, there's an unthinkable downside to this. A handful of perpetually losing consultants who pull out the same hoary methods yet miraculously live to lose again might be phased out and replaced with effective strategists.

    *Right now, very little respect is due this cavalcade of invertebrates, twits and phonies. I'm thinking about a Democratic Party down the road that has a minimum representation and performance requirement of Unbought and Unbossed Dems that are proud to brandish the highest standard, not cower in shame even to have standards.

    Booing Hillary (none / 0) (#8)
    by RedHead on Sun Aug 05, 2007 at 08:19:21 AM EST
    the audio has problems, and I rewinded the clip a few times, and I still didn't catch all of it, but Hillary response to the booing, "I've been waiting for this..."

    For all the nice words Hillary had for the "grass roots," I wonder if she would have appeared at this "grass roots" audience and tired to make nice if Obama wa$n't rai$ing $o much ca$h online.

    Also, for all the issues the "grass roots" or "the democratic wing of the democratic party" had with Bill Clinton, would he ever be booed?  


    Richardson was also booed (none / 0) (#10)
    by ding7777 on Sun Aug 05, 2007 at 10:43:27 AM EST
    but only the anti-Hillary tape is making the rounds

    Parent
    Yep, for the line item veto (none / 0) (#13)
    by andgarden on Sun Aug 05, 2007 at 11:25:59 AM EST
    it was LOUD too.

    Parent
    actually ellie, (none / 0) (#9)
    by cpinva on Sun Aug 05, 2007 at 10:04:58 AM EST
    it worked very well for bill clinton, twice. his campaign's slogan, "it's the economy, stupid!" very succinctly described the disaster, for middle-class america, that was 12 years worth of republicans in the white house. it resonated with a huge chunk of the electorate.

    hillary went to watch obama continue imploding, not because he's raising so much cash. she's doing quite nicely in that regard herself, thank you very much. also, perhaps to again size him up as a potential running mate.

    frankly, had she not shown up, the only people that would have known would be the 100 or so people at the convention, and maybe, the few thousand who actually pay any attention to the netroots.

    if and when the netroots impacts more than an immaterial segment of the voting population, then i submit candidates will be clamoring to be invited. as of now, they only do it if they find spare time. why should they?

    Scant wins compared to what was abandoned (none / 0) (#11)
    by Ellie on Sun Aug 05, 2007 at 10:45:14 AM EST
    A great line can always be nuked by another, but point taken. Also, lavishing in a success from what amounts to an eon ago compared to what's available now is how failing strategies (and strategists) get inflated for zombie reappearances in contemporary playbooks.

    Sloganizing and plasticizing a campaign shouldn't be the first order of business, the target of the strategy, nor the basket in which to place all the eggs.

    Whether that's the actual order of thinking up the strategy or just how it eye-rolling phonily it plays, the continual (and proprietary) focus on top down pressure from Dem "leadership" brought down to the rabble from on high to repeat a selected slogan is wrong-headed. It's more likely to amount to a cautious John Kerry style disaster, where the consultants excitedly huddle over their databases for future mail order fundraiser while voters are still lined up not getting to vote after the hasty concession.

    I'm also sick of the Dem Framers complaining about "special interest" voters who object to their own marginalization as if this is responsible for the disgusting record of elected Dems and piss poor performance of Dems on recent campaign trails.

    For one thing, the practice of trivializing as a special interest or "ideological purity", eg, a pro choice belief in reproductive rights but enshrining the choice of No Choice deadbeats as down home honest Real American moral values is insulting to the activist and the voter.

    That, and the long laundry list of abandoned traditional Dem principles are too much to invest on high-priced repeat failures.

    I don't like the plastic Hillary playing to the conservative gallery. She comes off like she's working from a shopworn script (and a bad one, at that.)

    Parent

    Ah, so that was Matt Bai (none / 0) (#15)
    by bronte17 on Sun Aug 05, 2007 at 12:40:13 PM EST
    He was rude.

    mcjoan was polished and professional.  She did a remarkable job.  She is such a credit to the blogsphere.

    Wondering why mcjoan was not the moderator. (none / 0) (#16)
    by oculus on Sun Aug 05, 2007 at 12:43:43 PM EST
    So are we all (none / 0) (#17)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Aug 05, 2007 at 12:54:05 PM EST
    Perhaps she will tell us. (none / 0) (#18)
    by oculus on Sun Aug 05, 2007 at 01:06:32 PM EST