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Discussing Race And Politics

Via Mark Halperin, a good discussion of these matters this morning between Bill Clinton and Obama supporter and radio host Roland Martin. Listen in. It was a very healthy and constructive discussion imo. BTW, Martin plays a cut of Bob Johnson's comments and there is no doubt in my mind, none, that he was referring to Obama's drug use.

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    two comments - (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by Judith on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 03:26:40 PM EST
    1, Halperin has earned major points with me from his visit to the Charlie Rose show the other night - the only one to stand up and say the media has blown it.  That took beaucoup guts.

    2.  Tjis si more of a comment.  Re Johnson - it is his right to say what he wants as long as it is true and he can back it up. I have a problem with the innuendo part - he should have just spit it out.

    what is hillary doing? (4.00 / 4) (#9)
    by sammiemorris on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 11:00:45 AM EST
    I have always been a strong supporter of Hillary Clinton. I have pointed to numerous Survey USA state polls showing Hillary running stronger than Obama in some states. I have criticized Obama supporters for deliberately creating misleading diaries about Andrew Cuomo in an effort to smear Hillary. The reason why I can no longer support Hillary is because it appears she has surrounded herself with both poor campaign managers who have implemented a faulty strategy, and surrogates who are unable to exercise any restraint in showing their support. I believe Hillary is at fault for this because it is ultimately her campaign, and the quality of her surrogates and the tone of her campaign is a reflection of her judgment. In this case, it is a clear case of poor judgment.  

    I was excited Tuesday night when Hillary resurrected her campaign with an astonishing come frombehind victory. Wednesday was her best day of the week because she kept out of the media spotlight and rested in New York. Meanwhile, Jesse Jackson Jr. came out on MSNBC and made a ridiculous statement about how Hillary's tears must be analyzed in the correct context. He summarized that although these tears had melted the Granite State, with the campaign moving to South Carolina where 45% of the electorate is black, he urged everyone to question where those tears were during Katrina.

    Furthermore, Obama suggested that it was time to engage in rough and tumble politics, and since he hailed from Chicago, he knew how to play this game.

    In any case, Hillary's campaign should have realized that race had been injected into the campaign, and that it was her job to put out the fire rather then fan the flames. It was clear that "somebody" would take advantage of her inarticulate remarks about MLK, JFK, and LBJ from the day before the New Hampshire Primary and push them into the media right in time for the South Carolina primary.

    Even if she had evidence that this "somebody" was the Obama campaign, she could have taken the higher road and said, "look, there are thousands of reasons to vote for Senator Obama, there are thousands of reasons to vote for Senator John Edwards, and likewise there are many reasons to vote for me, but this is not one of them. I made those remarks Monday when I was extremely tired and I admit I was inarticulate in making my point. I sincerely apologize to anyone who was offended by my statements, but I'd like to clarify what I was trying to say." She could have then explained what she meant, and then had an eloquent surrogate defend her. The eloquent surrogate, somebody like Congressman Lewis, who has endorsed her, could have said "We know what Hillary was trying to say. Look at her record. She has been working hard for civil rights her whole career, and we should not let her distorted remarks divide us and destroy the Democratic Party. In a competition, sometimes we get tired and frustrated, and we say things that don't accurately reflect what we mean. Lets move on and take pride in this historic campaign."

    It's safe to say that had Hillary done that, we wouldn't be talking about race today and the media would be focusing on other things like the Economy, and comparing Senator Obama's, Senator Clinton's, and Senator Edwards' stimulus plans.

    Unfortunately, Hillary's stupid campaign managers and surrogates decided to muddy up the field instead of taking the high road. Instead of trying to move on past her remarks, she blamed the Obama campaign for distorting her remarks in an effort to push this theme. Again, even if she had evidence of this, it was not in her benefit to have the media talking about this. Second, instead of using an articulate surrogate to defend her, she had an overzealous idiot like Bob Johnson slam Senator Obama for distorting her remarks while simultaneously referring to his past drug use. Instead of having the media focus on whether or not Senator Obama did in fact play a role in pushing the MLK comments, the media will be focusing on Billy Shaheen and whether or not this was another effort to bring up Senator Obama's past drug use.

    Again, this reflects poorly on Senator Clinton because it either demonstrates her campaign's deliberate attempt to keep race an issue in this campaign, or it reflects on her judgment in selecting surrogates. Either way, her poor judgment is depressing for me, because even though I truly admire her work ethic in the senate, the events of this past week give me serious doubts about her administration. She has been blessed with many opportunities to take the high road, but it seems she is incapable of doing so.

    What's worse is that the events of this past week have unleashed the conservative in me and I find myself agreeing with people who criticize the politics of victimization. I am concerned that there are other Democrats that agree with me.  


    Excellent evaluation (none / 0) (#42)
    by Aaron on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 12:16:56 AM EST
    And criticism, which I believe is right on point.

    Although please don't consider voting for the pseudo conservatives, who can do little more than push propaganda in support of their unsupportable positions.  I urge you not to fall for that con.

    Parent

    Michelle Obama (3.00 / 2) (#11)
    by BDB on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 12:03:55 PM EST
    To the extent her comments are reported correctly, this is worse, IMO, because it's Michelle Obama and she is personally distorting Bill Clinton's comments.

    Not that I'm defending Bob Johnsons.  It would've killed him to simply leave it at "Hillary Clinton was working to help African Americans when Obama was in Jr. High."  And I agree the Poitier stuff was worse than the drug stuff.

    Honestly, what a depressing couple of days to be a democrat.  

    Ack, better sentences, please (none / 0) (#12)
    by BDB on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 12:05:36 PM EST
    Should be

    Would it have killed him to simply leave it at "Hillary Clinton was working to help African Americans when Obama was in Jr. High"?

    Parent

    I don't understand (none / 0) (#14)
    by Jgarza on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 12:22:46 PM EST
    what the fuss is about Michelle.
    Now if she references civil rights leader she is "playing the race card"

    Fairy tale was a talking point and she made fun of it.  If the Clinton's are such great campaigners then they should pick talking points that aren't as easy to mock.

    She mocked the Clinton's talking points, it is a good political technique and it is fair.

    This is how the Clintons keep getting themselves in trouble.  For every action from Obama there is an over reaction from the Clinton's.

    Parent

    I have no problem (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by BDB on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 12:35:05 PM EST
    with a lot of what Michelle Obama said.  Of course, they can invoke civil rights leaders or anyone else they want to invoke.  I couldn't care less.

    My only problem was the interpretation of Bill Clinton's "fairy tale" comments as if he were calling Obama or his campaign a fairy tale when that's pretty clearly not what he was saying, he was instead talking about Obama's position on the war in Iraq (which it seems to me is clearly what Clinton was referring to).  

    But then I heard Edwards totally twist Hillary's MLK comments around this morning, too.  

    As I've said, I'm not exactly thrilled with Bob Johnson, but it's not just Clinton supporters who are saying things they shouldn't or pushing the racial politics.  Obama and Edwards are, too.

    Again, a bad couple of days to be a democrat.

    Parent

    Obama's (none / 0) (#19)
    by Jgarza on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 12:45:26 PM EST
    campaign didn't bring any of those up.  The Clintons made careless comments and both should have apologized and begged people not to misunderstand them.

    Instead the tried to get a political gain out of this by blaming him.

    It was a negative story in the press of course his campaign pushed it, but they didn't make it up, they both said those things, and it rubbed a lot of people the wrong way.

    Parent

    Any response to Obama (none / 0) (#20)
    by oculus on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 12:48:00 PM EST
    campaign playing that rap song?

    Parent
    The song was in poor taste (none / 0) (#25)
    by Jgarza on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 01:09:03 PM EST
    i would have to hear it, if it was looped at the line about 99 problem and blank not one, then he should be criticized, if not it was just a song with a bad line.

    Parent
    According to a MYDD Diary (none / 0) (#28)
    by BDB on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 01:14:09 PM EST
    there may be some dispute as to whether the song got played at all.  

    I'd say that this should be something that MSM outlets and bloggers shouldn't get wrong, but honestly so many things have been misreported or taken out of context this election cycle, who knows?  So I wouldn't presume it got played absent some further reporting or confirmation.

    Parent

    The Obama South Carolina Folks (none / 0) (#21)
    by BDB on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 12:56:41 PM EST
    Have a memo that explicitly pushes these things and does so in what appears to me to be a factually inaccurate way.

    For whatever reason, the Obama campaign has decided to try to help keep this entire thing alive.  It has been helped by Clinton supporters saying stupid things, but that doesn't mean that the Obama campaign is pushing it as well.

    The entire thing is a sorry commentary on where we are in this primary season.  And to think I was hoping NH would lead to Clinton shoring up her narrative about working for the invisible people and Obama working to add substance to his campaign speeches and Edwards doing something that helped me get over his BS reaction to Clinton's emotion.  But clearly that isn't what's happened.  Part of that is the candidates' faults, part of it their campaign workers' and supporters', and part of it is the media's (who we all know hate anything that might touch on policy).

    The entire thing has been incredibly depressing and everyone needs to back off and go to their respective corners on the racial stuff, IMO.  This isn't helping anyone.

    Parent

    By everyone (none / 0) (#23)
    by BDB on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 12:58:00 PM EST
    I meant the campaigns and the media crap fueling them.  It's only natural for the rest of us to respond to what the campaigns are doing.  No matter how stupid and unhelpful it is.

    Parent
    Ugh (none / 0) (#24)
    by BDB on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 12:59:36 PM EST
    Speak more clearly, BDB, and try using an antecedent, the it that was stupid and unhelpful refers to what the campaigns are currently doing, which honestly doesn't tell us a darned thing about why any of the candidates would be a better president.

    Parent
    That memo from the Obama camp (none / 0) (#1)
    by commissar on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 09:44:24 AM EST
    listing the Clinton campaign's smears.

    I fully expect that a Clinton surrogate will criticize the memo as "willfully inaccurate and misleading," noting the memo's omission of Bob Johnson's remarks as an example of its glaring inaccuracy.

    I heard on CNN (none / 0) (#2)
    by Jgarza on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 09:48:39 AM EST
    the only thing that was disappointing was, Bills line about us having to take him (Bob Johnson) at his word.

    He really is a master politician. (none / 0) (#3)
    by oculus on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 10:00:34 AM EST
    But, I don't believe for a moment he hadn't previously heard the Bob Johnson into.

    And, now having heard instead of only read Johnson's comments, I agree--he was referring to Barack Obama's admission of drug use.

    I just checked the Clinton campaign (none / 0) (#4)
    by oculus on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 10:27:40 AM EST
    website, which only posts Johnson's statement about his intro yesterday.  I really hope Hillary Clinton will address the issue herself and ask Bob Johnson step away from her campaign.

    One account I just read sd. (none / 0) (#16)
    by oculus on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 12:34:04 PM EST
    Hillary Clinton was not on stage yet when Johnson did his intro.  

    Parent
    I thought the Sidney Poitier slam was (none / 0) (#5)
    by Geekesque on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 10:35:22 AM EST
    worse.  Seriously, criticizing someone for being too much like Sidney Poitier?  

    Also, Billionaire Bob Johnson makes Joe Lieberman look like Bernie Sanders--he favors privatizing Social Security and claims that 'the death tax is racist.'

    Here is a link (none / 0) (#6)
    by Jgarza on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 10:47:47 AM EST
    as back up
    Matt Stoller

    Parent
    Pointing to (none / 0) (#7)
    by RalphB on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 10:51:27 AM EST
    Matt Stoller for evidence.  How lame.

    Parent
    Back in the day (none / 0) (#8)
    by commissar on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 10:57:24 AM EST
    You know, about two weeks ago (or less), we heard an awful lot about "Oh no, Obama will never be able to face up to the attacks of the evil right wing smear machine."

    Haven't heard that particular charge lately.

    Bob Johnson's remarks (none / 0) (#10)
    by loro on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 11:16:51 AM EST
    Of course Bob Johnson's remark was about Obama's
    drug use......so what?  Obama wrote about his drug
    use in his own book.  Mr. Johnson merely stated
    the facts.  Has it gotten so bad that Hillary's
    supporters are not even allowed to tell the truth
    about Obama - if so, why not?  I heard Jesse
    Jackson, Jr.lie in an interview with Nora O'Donnell about Hillary.  He said she cried about her hair.  How ridiculous - she didn't cry, she was choked-up and had tears in her eyes.  The woman asked her how she was able to keep going
    and she answered.  Needless to say, Nora did not
    correct him.  I myself have seen an Obama ad on the BET network which I felt was racist and I haven't heard anyone in the media question it.


    See Time: (none / 0) (#15)
    by oculus on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 12:30:27 PM EST
    Could Race Destroy the Democrats?

    TIME

    Good find (none / 0) (#18)
    by Jgarza on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 12:41:09 PM EST
    interesting article.

    Parent
    Seems obvious (none / 0) (#27)
    by DA in LA on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 01:11:12 PM EST
    We are "vetting" our candidates, everybody.

    The Clintons should have left race alone.  Simply stupid.  They took the belief that Bill was loved by the black community to heart and now they are paying the price.

    This is something the Clintons should step away from.  Now.

    But I think the damage is already done.

    Parent

    If Obama's campaign (none / 0) (#30)
    by BDB on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 01:20:08 PM EST
    will let the Clintons step away.  They seem as intent on pushing this as anyone.

    Frankly, this situation calls for the candidates to talk to each other directly and reach some sort of agreement to stand down.  I don't know who is helped by pushing these things, but I know who is hurt - democrats.  

    Parent

    And they have a right to do so. (none / 0) (#31)
    by DA in LA on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 01:27:00 PM EST
    Who is white and who is black?  Honestly, the lack of perspective on race relations in this country is startling.  

    The Clintons just need to shut up and walk away.  It will die down.  Obama will use it, as he should, being a black man.  The Clinton campaign and her supporters have now made too many comments.  They have given the MSM enough ammo to destroy this entire primary.  

    But remember, we are "vetting."

    Parent

    Here is Matt Bai (BTD's (none / 0) (#32)
    by oculus on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 01:30:55 PM EST
    favoite commenter:

    MATT BAI

    Parent

    Ezra weighed in now (none / 0) (#38)
    by Jgarza on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 02:03:02 PM EST
    I think HRC campaign didn't really need (none / 0) (#33)
    by oculus on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 01:33:34 PM EST
    to shed any advisors, spokespersons, who referred to Barack Obama's use of drugs as a young man.  Afterall, he decided the best defense is a good offense on that topic.  

    Parent
    I'm not talking about the drug issue. (none / 0) (#34)
    by DA in LA on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 01:38:14 PM EST
    That is relevant.

    Parent
    I know. That is why the whole Bob (none / 0) (#35)
    by oculus on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 01:44:04 PM EST
    Johnson thing is such a hornet's nest.

    Parent
    I disagree (none / 0) (#36)
    by DA in LA on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 01:51:41 PM EST
    His "Breakfast" comment was disgusting.

    Parent
    I missed that one. (none / 0) (#37)
    by oculus on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 01:56:56 PM EST
    Because Obama is African American (none / 0) (#39)
    by BDB on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 02:10:59 PM EST
    is why he can't push the race issue.  Just as Clinton was pilloried for playing the "gender card" by calling presidential politics a boys' club.  It didn't matter that it was true, women don't get to play the "gender card" only men do (see Bush, George W., McCain, John, etc.) because men, particularly white men, still dominate our political culture.  

    If Obama gets defined as the "black candidate", then he's done, IMO.  Is that fair or right? Absolutely not.  But Clinton and Obama - simply by virtue of being who they are - are shocks to the dominant political culture.  The election of either one would represent a huge power shift in this country.  That's for the better, IMO, but it's going to make a lot of people uneasy.  I think what happened to Clinton with the "gender card" crap was that it made her more threatening because she was seen as kind of rubbing folks' noses in it (and by folks I mean the white, male dominated MSM).  I fear the same thing will happen to Obama if he continues to push race issues.  And, while I'm not an Obama supporter, I don't want to see his candidacy crash because of his race any more than I wanted to see Clinton's crash because of her sex.  Both deserve better, IMO.

    Parent

    Gender trumps Race (none / 0) (#43)
    by Rojas on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 06:00:03 AM EST
    and she will continue to play it.

    Parent
    More on Bob Johnson, (none / 0) (#22)
    by oculus on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 12:57:38 PM EST
    MOTHER JONES

    Robert Johnson is starting to remind me of Clarence Thomas.

    I cringed when (none / 0) (#26)
    by Jgarza on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 01:11:03 PM EST
    you said Clarence Thomas, and though I hope Jer or BTD delete this profanity.  Then i realized Clarence Thomas isn't the F word, i just have the same reaction to it.

    Parent
    Heh (none / 0) (#29)
    by BDB on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 01:16:40 PM EST
    Time to work on these issues (none / 0) (#41)
    by Aaron on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 12:09:59 AM EST
    Obama Tries to Stop the `Silliness'

    You know, I tried to stay away from this whole thing when it first started happening, thinking that it would die down, and that it was not particularly constructive.  Specifically because I have strong feelings and opinions on issues of race and gender.

    But it seems that this is a discussion we need to have, and not pretend like it's not still a preeminent issue, and that people are often extremely insensitive, as I believe Clinton was in her comments regarding Martin Luther King.  I don't believe it was calculated, at least I hope not, and that is why it needs to be addressed directly, otherwise it will continue to divide us as a people and a party.

     What better opportunity to make progress on issues of race and gender, then during the political campaign, it's one of the few times where we can't hide from the issues, because they're staring us right in the face, a White woman, and a Black man are running for president.  If the Democratic Party is really interested in unity, then regardless of who prevails in this race, one should become the president and the other should become the vice president.  An interracial couple/team running America.  Yeah that's the ticket!  :-)