DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES PARTICIPATE IN A DEBATE SPONSORED BY CNN AND THE CONGRESSIONAL BLACK CAUCUS

JANUARY 21, 2008

MALVEAUX: I'd like to follow-up with Senator Obama. It was just
a few days ago that Senator Clinton asserted that she was the
strongest candidate when it comes to fiscal responsibility.

She says that the new programs that she proposes she essentially
can pay for. She says that you have failed in that regard in the tune
of some $50 billion worth of new programs that you cannot account for.

How do you respond to that charge?

OBAMA: What she said wasn't true. We account for every single dollar that we propose.

Now, this, I think, is one of the things that's happened during
the course of this campaign, that there's a set of assertions made by
Senator Clinton, as well as her husband, that are not factually
accurate.

And I think that part of what the people are looking for right
now is somebody who's going to solve problems and not resort to the
same typical politics that we've seen in Washington.

(APPLAUSE)

That is something that I hear all across the country. So when
Senator Clinton says -- or President Clinton says that I wasn't
opposed to the war from the start or says it's a fairytale that I
opposed the war, that is simply not true.

When Senator Clinton or President Clinton asserts that I said
that the Republicans had had better economic policies since 1980, that
is not the case.

Now, the viewers aren't concerned with this kind of back-and-
forth. What they're concerned about is who's actually going to help
the get health care, how are they going to get their kids...

(APPLAUSE)

... going to college, and that's the kind of campaign I've tried
to run. I think that's the kind of campaign we should all try to run.

(APPLAUSE)

CLINTON: Well, I couldn't agree more. But I do think that your
record and what you say does matter. And when it comes to...

(APPLAUSE)

... a lot of the issues that are important in this race, it is
sometimes difficult to understand what Senator Obama has said, because
as soon as he is confronted on it, he says that's not what he meant.

The facts are that he has said in the last week that he really
liked the ideas of the Republicans over the last 10 to 15 years, and
we can give you the exact quote.
Now, I personally think they had ideas, but they were bad ideas.
They were bad ideas for America.

(APPLAUSE)

They were ideas like privatizing Social Security, like moving
back from a balanced budget and a surplus to deficit and debt.

And with respect to putting forth how one would pay for all of
the programs that we're proposing in this campaign, I will be more
than happy, Barack, to get the information, because we have searched
for it.

You have a lot of money that you want to put into foreign aid, a
very worthy program. There is no evidence from your Web site, from
your speeches, as to how you would pay for it.

Now, why is this important? It's important because I think
elections are about the future. But how do you determine what will
happen in the future? Well, you have to look to the record, you have
to look to what we say in campaigns, and what we have done during our
careers.

And I want to be just very explicit about this. We are not,
neither my campaign nor anyone associated with it, are in any way
saying you did not oppose the war in Iraq.

CLINTON: You did. You gave a great speech in 2002 opposing the
war in Iraq. That was not what the point of our criticism was.

It was after having given that speech, by the next year the
speech was off your Web site. By the next year, you were telling
reporters that you agreed with President Bush in his conduct of the
war. And by the next year, when you were in the Senate, you were
voting to fund the war time after time after time.

BLITZER: All right.

CLINTON: So it was more about the distinction between words and
action. And I think that is a fair assessment for voters to make.

(APPLAUSE)

BLITZER: OK. Thank you, Senator. Senator, we're a little off
topic. I have to let Senator Obama respond, then Senator Edwards,
who's going to come...

OBAMA: We're off topic, but...

BLITZER: But go ahead and respond, and then I want to get back
to this issue that we're talking about, fiscal responsibility. But go
ahead.

OBAMA: Let's talk about it.

Hillary, I will be happy to provide you with the information
about all -- all the spending that we do. Now, let's talk about
Ronald Reagan. What you just repeated here today is...

CLINTON: Barack...

OBAMA: Wait. No. Hillary, you just spoke.

CLINTON: I did not say anything about Ronald Reagan.

OBAMA: You just spoke for two minutes.

CLINTON: You said two things.

OBAMA: You just...

CLINTON: You talked about admiring Ronald Reagan and you talked
about the ideas...
OBAMA: Hillary, I'm sorry. You just...

BLITZER: Senator...

CLINTON: I didn't talk about Reagan.

OBAMA: Hillary, we just had the tape. You just said that I
complimented the Republican ideas. That is not true.

What I said -- and I will provide you with a quote -- what I said
was is that Ronald Reagan was a transformative political figure
because he was able to get Democrats to vote against their economic
interests to form a majority to push through their agenda, an agenda
that I objected to. Because while I was working on those streets
watching those folks see their jobs shift overseas, you were a
corporate lawyer sitting on the board at Wal-Mart.

(APPLAUSE)

OBAMA: I was fighting these fights. I was fighting these
fights. So -- but I want to be clear.

So I want to be clear. What I said had nothing to do with their
policies. I spent a lifetime fighting a lifetime against Ronald
Reagan's policies. But what I did say is that we have to be thinking
in the same transformative way about our Democratic agenda.

We've got to appeal to Independents and Republicans in order to
build a working majority to move an agenda forward. That is what I
said.

(APPLAUSE)

OBAMA: Now, you can dispute that, but let me finish.

Hillary, you went on for two minutes. Let me finish.

The irony of this is that you provided much more fulsome praise
of Ronald Reagan in a book by Tom Brokaw that's being published right
now, as did -- as did Bill Clinton in the past. So these are the
kinds of political games that we are accustomed to.

CLINTON: Now, wait a minute.

Wolf, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Just a minute.

BLITZER: Senator Edwards, let them wrap up. Then I'm going to
come to you.

Yes?

CLINTON: I just want -- I just to clarify -- I want to clarify
the record. Wait a minute.

EDWARDS: There's a third person in this debate.

BLITZER: Wait a minute, Senator Edwards. Hold on.

There has been a specific charge leveled against Hillary Clinton,
so she can respond. Then I'll bring in Senator Edwards.

CLINTON: I just want to be sure...

OBAMA: Go ahead and address what you said about...

BLITZER: We have got a long time to. You'll have a good
opportunity.

CLINTON: We're just getting warmed up.

(APPLAUSE)

CLINTON: Now, I just -- I just want to be clear about this. In
an editorial board with the Reno newspaper, you said two different
things, because I have read the transcript. You talked about Ronald
Reagan being a transformative political leader. I did not mention his
name.

OBAMA: Your husband did.

CLINTON: Well, I'm here. He's not. And...

OBAMA: OK. Well, I can't tell who I'm running against
sometimes.

(APPLAUSE)

CLINTON: Well, you know, I think we both have very passionate
and committed spouses who stand up for us. And I'm proud of that.

But you also talked about the Republicans having ideas over the
last 10 to 15 years.

OBAMA: I didn't say they were good ones.

CLINTON: Well, you can read the context of it.

OBAMA: Well, I didn't say they were good ones.

CLINTON: Well, it certainly...

OBAMA: All right, Wolf.

CLINTON: It certainly came across in the way that it was
presented, as though the Republicans had been standing up against the
conventional wisdom with their ideas. I'm just reacting to the fact,
yes, they did have ideas, and they were bad ideas.

OBAMA: I agree.

CLINTON: Bad for America, and I was fighting against those ideas
when you were practicing law and representing your contributor, Resco,
in his slum landlord business in inner city Chicago.
(APPLAUSE)

OBAMA: No, no, no.

BLITZER: Hold on one second. Hold on.

Senator Edwards -- Senator Edwards has been remarkably patient
during this exchange. And I want him -- I don't know if you want to
get involved in this, Senator Edwards.

EDWARDS: What I want to say first is, are there three people in
this debate, not two?

(APPLAUSE)

EDWARDS: And I also want to know -- I also want to know on
behalf of voters here in South Carolina, this kind of squabbling, how
many children is this going to get health care? How many people are
going to get an education from this? How many kids are going to be
able to go to college because of this?

EDWARDS: We have got to understand -- you know, and I respect
both of my fellow candidates -- but we have got to understand this is
not about us personally. It is about...

(APPLAUSE)

... what we are trying to do for this country and what we believe
in.

Now, fiscal responsibility, which I think was the question. It
was a little hard to tell there at the end of that. But I think the
question was about fiscal responsibility.

I have proposed, I think, the most aggressive, most progressive
agenda of the three of us up here. And I was the first to come out
with a universal health care plan, first to come out with a global
warming plan, first -- and, to the best of my knowledge, only at this
point -- to come out with a comprehensive, detailed plan to end
poverty in America, since we are on Dr. King's day.

This is the cause of my life. Everything I have proposed, I have
come up with a way to pay for it. And I've been very explicit about
how it should be paid for, not abstract, not rhetoric, very, very
explicit.

But I do have to say, in response to something Senator Clinton
said just a minute ago, both Senator Obama and I have said Social
Security needs a solution. And we have said we won't privatize, we
won't cut benefits, we won't raise the retirement age. Same thing
that Hillary has said.

But she has proposed nothing about how we're going to create
revenue to keep Social Security alive and talked about fiscal
responsibility. Here's the problem: If you don't have -- this is not
complicated. The American people understand it. If you've got more
money going out than is coming in, you're going to eventually run out
of money.

And you've got to have a way to pay for it, which is why -- now,
let me finish this. Lord knows you let them go on forever.

(APPLAUSE)

What I'm saying is we have to be consistent in what we're saying.
I have said I think Hillary doesn't want to talk about raising taxes.
Let's just be honest about that.
Barack and I have both said that you've got to do something about
the cap on Social Security taxes, which is now capped at $97,000. It
means if somebody is making $80,000 a year, every dime of their income
is taxed for Social Security. But if you are making $50 million a
year, only the first $97,000 is taxed.

That's not right. And people ought to be paying their Social
Security taxes. But the American people deserve to know what we're
going to do.

We can disagree. There's nothing wrong with that, so they can
make an informed choice, but they at least deserve to know where they
stand and what we'd do.