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Q Polls - OH, FL, PA Polls

The last full month of the campaign and I'll start looking at state polls more closely now. Today we'll look at the latest Q polls for Ohio, Florida and Pennsylvania:

FLORIDA: Obama 49 - McCain 43 pre-debate; Obama 51 - McCain 43 post-debate; OHIO: Obama 49 - McCain 42 pre-debate; Obama 50 - McCain 42 post-debate; PENNSYLVANIA: Obama 49 - McCain 43 pre-debate; Obama 54 - McCain 39 post-debate

"It is difficult to find a modern competitive presidential race that has swung so dramatically, so quickly and so sharply this late in the campaign. In the last 20 days, Sen. Barack Obama has gone from seven points down to eight points up in Florida, while widening his leads to eight points in Ohio and 15 points in Pennsylvania," said Peter Brown, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Polling Institute.

(Emphasis mine.) The economic news has destroyed any chance McCain had in this election, which was slim in the first place imo. I said yesterday this election is over unless McCain changes the game somehow. I stand by that assessment.

By Big Tent Democrat, speaking for me only

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    Good morning (5.00 / 0) (#1)
    by Lil on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:21:26 AM EST
    and it seems to be. Are all Dems as nervous as me? still biting my nails.

    yes! (none / 0) (#26)
    by sarany on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:39:24 AM EST
    I am.  I remember thinking no way Reagan could win, and no way Bush could win 2000 and no way he'd be reelected in 2004.

    Obviously I am entirely out of step with what most American voters (seem to) want in leaders: reduce complex situations to black and white macho, and us vs them sound bites.  Elect people who don't make you feel like you're not one of the smarter people in the room.  Sneer at intelligence, capability and nuance. Elect big daddies, hand over all those bothersome decisions to them and go back to sleep.  Elect people who tell you exactly who's to blame for your troubles and that they're all out to destroy your America.  

    So, color me very afraid of the willingness of too many American voters to be sold a bill of goods and elect the wrong people. And the more afraid they are, the more susceptible to stampede politics, I fear.

    But I am stubbornly holding on to hope.

    Parent

    Really? (none / 0) (#28)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:40:31 AM EST
    Reagan was in the game all the way. Hell, it was a miracle Carter was not cooked before the famous debate.

    As for Bush, he led Kerry from April to November.


    Parent

    BTW on Kerry (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:55:52 AM EST
    I thought Kerry would win because undecideds generally break against incumbents 2-1.

    If that had happened, Kerry would have won.

    The reverse occurred.

    Parent

    it was foreign policy, stupid (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by coigue on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 11:01:17 AM EST
    not you, just the situation.

    Favors Republicans in a BIG way...I know how nonsensical that is (given the reality that the GOP screws up FP), but it is my new framework for presidential politics. I used to think it could be overcome, now I don't.

    Parent

    that, BTD, came from ... (none / 0) (#71)
    by wystler on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 10:18:27 AM EST
    ... a toxic media narrative that had taken a tight grip on the campaign.

    Frankly, I don't see where McCain/Palin find a Disney ending as anything other than. Quite the contrary. Central casting department seems to have decided their parallels are Montgomery Burns (morphed from Abraham Simpson) and Ursula (morphed from Ariel).


    Parent

    I know, I know (none / 0) (#38)
    by sarany on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:51:38 AM EST
    I found Reagan an unreasonable candidate, and Bush, and Bush again.

    I read your posts about numbers and am hopeful that voters are seeing McCain / Palin clearly. But I guess you're saying it's not clear seeing, but rather, it's the economy, stupid.

     It's sad that it takes the degree of this economic crisis to get voters to the point where it's "Throw the bums out." Unreasoned behavior that works in Obama's favor.  I'll take it, but it's sad.

    I hope I'm simply susceptible to (hopefully unfounded) Dem Angst...

    Parent

    It's the economy, stupid (none / 0) (#40)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:52:42 AM EST
    Not you, just the saying.

    Parent
    It is sad that our country had to come (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by hairspray on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 11:04:45 AM EST
    to the edge of a disaster (which still may happen) to help Obama break through.  I think it has more to do with the Democratic brand than with sudden infatuation with Obama.  Friends who will vote for Obama now, are concerned about him being a strong enough leader, but the alternative is unthinkable.  It took this meltdown to open a lot of eyes.  Now if only Obama would tie this fiasco around the neck of the GOP he could lead by 15.

    Parent
    yes, but (none / 0) (#82)
    by Lil on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 11:08:35 AM EST
    I think we've been over the edge for awhile already...just more people are finally coming out of a stupor or something.

    Parent
    gotcha... (none / 0) (#45)
    by sarany on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:59:54 AM EST
    ... and I'll take it.

    Maybe a Pres. Obama can appeal to the best in us, and wake people up to our own abilities, our intelligence and our common humanness. End the politics of division. Help people remember that making a good choice in leaders is itself proof of intelligence.

    I'll hope for that.

    Parent

    Cue harps and violins... (none / 0) (#84)
    by marian evans on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 11:10:35 AM EST
    followed by the melodious voices of Obama's young female  "torchbearers" (I kid you not...it's kosher) as angelic presences waft us to a higher plane of consciousness...

    Yep, tap into that inner curmudgeon, folks, or you may not be able to survive the sea of saccharine that awaits us.

    Which is worse - McCain's McNasty meal, or Obama's not-so-nouvelle ersatz cuisine?

    What I would give for some genuinely intelligent discourse in US politics, instead of this shadow-play, this pre-recorded Milli Vanilli lip-synching you call political process.

    It's like Thunderbirds, but with more wooden acting...heh

    Parent

    Just like the last Washington Post / abc poll (none / 0) (#66)
    by az on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 09:33:13 AM EST
    was dubious and an outlier I am refering to the one that showed a 52 - 43 lead for Obama just a few days ago , only to come out with a 4 point lead yesterday.

    The quinnipiac poll would prove to be dubious .

    Their pre debate poll was not consistent with other polls in all of the states , Obama wasn't ahead in ohio and florida in other pre debate polls , certainly not by 5 - 7 points...

    Their post debate poll would soon be contradicted , the ohio one as already been by the surveyusa poll that was done in the same timeframe that has Mccain up by 1...

    I just don't see the electorate in those states swinging as wildly as those polls show.

     

    Parent

    Stand by your assessments, BTD (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by stefystef on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 10:12:33 AM EST
    I enjoy your convictions.  That's why I keep coming back to this site even when I read things that are not looking at how Americans really think as opposed to what the polls are saying.

    People dismissed McCain back in June of 2007 when he was broke and taking Greyhound to get around.  McCain was dismissed and ignored.  Until New Hampshire and South Carolina.  So much Obama worship has blinded people to the single minded determination of McCain and he has not survived this long by being a passive person.

    The financial situation will pass and the Republicans will twist it to their advantage in the end.  Many American don't want a bail out but want a bail out. They are confused and very angry at things because it is too much at the same time.  Obama has done nothing but stay in the background, so he doesn't get entrenched in this mess. That's not a sign of a leader.  Sometimes you have to get your hands dirty and Obama doesn't want to get dirty at all.

    I still believe that by November, this race will be too close to call.

    The financial system will pass? (none / 0) (#77)
    by CST on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 10:37:21 AM EST
    I don't think so.  People have been struggling for a while now.  The markets and new media just started paying attention.  This was an issue for voters back in the primary.  That's one major reason Hillar finished so strong.

    You have people comparing this to the great depression, which I think is probably overkill, but no one is going to forget about it in the next month.  30 days isn't that long.

    Parent

    I feel Hillary finished strong because (none / 0) (#99)
    by stefystef on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 11:29:29 AM EST
    voters started to look pass the Obama hype and at the real issues.

    What I'm trying to say is if the Republicans are able to put together a so-called "bailout" plan and make it palatable to the American people and sell it right, it will work for McCain by the end of October.

    In the meantime, I still don't see the MSM going after Bush.  They go after the Republican congress and McCain, but don't lay the blame where it belongs.

    Parent

    Hillary was able (none / 0) (#104)
    by Jgarza on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 12:20:37 PM EST
    to finish strong because she was seen as stronger on the Economy.  Obama is seen as stronger on the economy than McCain.

    You want to talk about hype, look at McCain Palin that is hype.

    Parent

    This is still going to be a close (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by kenosharick on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 10:41:36 AM EST
    election next month. Obama is favored, but if not for the recent economic problems it would be 50/50. Too bad- we almost had a candidate that would have been building a tidal wave of a victory. It never would have been close at all. IMO.

    Why was I more confident when Obama was down 2 (none / 0) (#2)
    by steviez314 on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:22:32 AM EST
    than when he is up 6?

    Is Democratic Election Psychosis a recognized illness?

    Because you're rooting for. . . (3.00 / 2) (#3)
    by LarryInNYC on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:23:13 AM EST
    McCain?

    Parent
    Not Stevie (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:25:51 AM EST
    You can feel him sweating for Obama in every comment.

    It's funny.

    Parent

    Ooops. (none / 0) (#10)
    by LarryInNYC on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:27:37 AM EST
    Must have mixed him up with any one of a number of other commenters.  My apologies.

    Parent
    Heh (none / 0) (#53)
    by Steve M on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 08:21:16 AM EST
    As my friend Steve's girlfriend used to say, "One Steve is as good as another."

    Parent
    If you're an optimist you can only be (none / 0) (#17)
    by steviez314 on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:31:55 AM EST
    disappointed.  If you're a pessimist you can only be pleasantly suprised.

    Parent
    Need more coffee ... (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by Robot Porter on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:37:59 AM EST
    initially read that as "if you're an optometrist."

    Parent
    Heh (none / 0) (#25)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:38:49 AM EST
    I appreciate your participation here Stevie. I mean no offense.

    Parent
    None taken. (none / 0) (#29)
    by steviez314 on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:40:45 AM EST
    No, It's because I'm Jewish and my motto is (none / 0) (#4)
    by steviez314 on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:24:09 AM EST
    "Hope for the best, expect the worst".

    Parent
    I'm Jewish and my ... (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by Robot Porter on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:25:57 AM EST
    motto is:  "Is the rye bread fresh?"

    ;)

    Parent

    Is the pastrami lean? (none / 0) (#27)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:39:31 AM EST
    So'm I. (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by LarryInNYC on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:28:03 AM EST
    And my motto is "Worst will never come to that worst."

    Parent
    Pastrami I understand.. (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by CoralGables on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 08:43:03 AM EST
    but thought only Germans worried about the wurst :)

    Parent
    I thought that was us Catholics. (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by Finis Terrae on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:29:29 AM EST
    PS. . . (none / 0) (#16)
    by LarryInNYC on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:31:41 AM EST
    Apologies for the snarky comment -- I had you mixed up with one of any number of other Talk Left commenters.

    Parent
    I agree, the lousy ... (none / 0) (#5)
    by Robot Porter on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:24:50 AM EST
    economy has probably given this election to Obama.

    Barring some major shift in public perception, Obama gets this one.

    I think the race will tighten toward the end of the month, and final results will be closer than expected.  But he'll still win.

    But even I, who has been bearish about Obama's chances for months, can even see the slim possibility of a landslide.

    What would a landslide MEAN? (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by Fabian on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 08:06:17 AM EST
    Does it magically make us all post racists?

    Does it mean "We love Democrats!" or "We despise Republicans!" ?

    Does it mean "We think Obama is great!" or "Deities!  Anyone but McCain!" ?

    Or does it mean that we are really anxious and Obama makes us significantly less anxious than McCain?

    I think this race is more about confidence than philosophy.  

    Parent

    I think it means ... (none / 0) (#50)
    by Robot Porter on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 08:07:37 AM EST
    Obama got a lot more votes.

    ;)

    Parent

    You want funny? (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by Fabian on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 08:12:08 AM EST
    Check Ohio voting news.  The state GOP is challenging everything.  I expect the GOP to demand recounts before the polls close in November.

    Ah, life in a swing state!  

    Parent

    Or you could just ... (none / 0) (#52)
    by Robot Porter on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 08:19:46 AM EST
    I vote this: (none / 0) (#95)
    by Faust on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 11:18:44 AM EST
    Or does it mean that we are really anxious and Obama makes us significantly less anxious than McCain.


    Parent
    For the record (none / 0) (#6)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:25:12 AM EST
    I still favor McCain in Florida but I think Obama will win Ohio and I am positive Obama will win Pennsylvania.

    I could have added this to the post (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:35:48 AM EST
    but I wanted to keep it short. I am no fan of Peter Brown but he is right about this:

    "Sen. John McCain has his work cut out for him if he is to win the presidency and there does not appear to be a role model for such a comeback in the last half century," Brown added. "Sen. McCain's problem is not with this or that demographic group. Although he still leads among white men, albeit by a smaller margin, his problems are across the electorate.

    There have been the following phases to the GE campaign. Obama wins the nomination but the Dems are divided. Clinton works to help the divide but it is still there.

    Then McCain hammers Obama all of July and it is sticking. Obama is floundering. the election is about Obama - McCain's only chance

    Then the Dem Convention was the harbinger of the necessary change from Obama - he started hammering Bush/McCain. The Clinton's give great speeches. Obama kills in his nominating speech and the story is Bush/McCain and Republicans vs. Democrats. Obama soars. Indeed, Obama was where he is now.

    McCain takes a calculated gamble - Palin. It worked (I would argue with all of you that it was McCain's best play at the time and the idea that Romney would be making a difference now is silly. On the margins at best.)  Palinpalooza did nothing. And I will show you the polling that proves it. McCain was in the game.

    The economy. The ultimate and hopefully final game changer. And John McCain utteredf the most fateful words of the campaign - "the fundamentals of the economy are strong."

    That Monday changed this election and decided this election. I do not think there is anything McCain can do now.

    It's over.

    Parent

    Video of Obama having ... (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by Robot Porter on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:43:08 AM EST
    sex with Farrakhan while singing the Internationale and arguing for the elimination of social security  ... might not even save McCain.

    Parent
    smiling (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by Finis Terrae on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:45:14 AM EST
    The Internationale? (none / 0) (#60)
    by LarryInNYC on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 08:50:02 AM EST
    In French?  That would finish Obama.

    Parent
    wohA! (none / 0) (#97)
    by Faust on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 11:21:26 AM EST
    Ok I laughed.

    Parent
    "It's over." (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by Finis Terrae on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:44:03 AM EST
    I want to believe, I really do. But we are talking GOP here.

    Parent
    Tell me what McCain can do now? (none / 0) (#33)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:47:27 AM EST
    find the video RPorter is talking about? (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by Finis Terrae on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:51:32 AM EST
    Tell Bush to bomb Iran? (none / 0) (#34)
    by steviez314 on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:49:31 AM EST
    That would be a disaster (none / 0) (#39)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:51:55 AM EST
    for McCain imo.

    Then Larry's 10 point win becomes a reality.

    Parent

    I might have been too quick on that. (none / 0) (#48)
    by steviez314 on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 08:00:53 AM EST
    I guess if Bush bombed Iran, that would be a big negative.  However, there are reports (totally speculative) that Israel asked Bush for permission to bomb Iran and he said no.

    Now, what happens if Israel bombs Iran?  Bush's fingerprints are not directly on this, but it creates a geopolitical crisis that drives the economy off the pages short-term (which is all that's important to McCain) and plays to McCain's perceived strength.  If this happened a few days before the election, I'm just not sure how it would play out.

    By the way, I think a new Bin Ladin tape ala 2004 would NOT help McCain, but would hurt him even more.  Obama could come back immediately with how we attacked the wrong enemy and how this guy is still free after 7 years of Republican incompetence.

    Parent

    When you report. . . (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by LarryInNYC on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 08:49:28 AM EST
    there are reports (totally speculative) that Israel asked Bush for permission to bomb Iran and he said no.

    a factual occurrence without any supporting evidence it is not called speculation.  It is called fiction.

    Parent

    Well (none / 0) (#61)
    by Steve M on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 08:57:28 AM EST
    Let's be clear about what is and is not fiction.  Here's some recent Israeli reporting.  It seems likely that the wiser heads in the Bush administration have, in fact, decided that Israel needs to be quietly reined in just a tad in order to avoid a destabilizing act.

    The interesting thing is that this puts Sarah "we cannot second-guess Israel" Palin to the right of the Bush administration on the issue.  Heh.

    Parent

    I've always thought that Bombing Iran (none / 0) (#93)
    by Christy1947 on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 11:16:44 AM EST
    was Bush's October surprise, but with the early vote, it needed to be a late September surprise this year. And the Economic Meltdown took that.

    Parent
    you are an optimist, aren't you? (none / 0) (#41)
    by Finis Terrae on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:53:25 AM EST
    Maybe McCain can drop (none / 0) (#47)
    by JoeA on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 08:00:46 AM EST
    Larry Johnsons fabled Michelle Obama video as a double feature with the Obama/Farrakhan s%x tape.  That might get McCain back within a few points at least.

    Parent
    I thought Obama would win ... (none / 0) (#11)
    by Robot Porter on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:27:58 AM EST
    PA even when I thought McCain could win the election.

    Parent
    I am not so sure about OH, (none / 0) (#15)
    by Finis Terrae on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:31:39 AM EST
    by yes, PA is likely to go D. FL, who knows?

    Parent
    Two points. (none / 0) (#9)
    by LarryInNYC on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:26:33 AM EST
    1. Ten points, baby, ten points.

    2. One thing that impressed me about Obama in the primaries was his sense of timing.  When I was considering candidates after Labor Day last year I wrote a diary at dKos with a title something like "Obama, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick" in which I said that Obama was running out of time to make his move on Clinton.

    But in the end, he made his move at pretty much exactly the right time -- Super Tuesday.  The primaries, of course, are harder to "time" than the general since they occur over six months.

    Past performance is no guarantee of future gains, but if I had to make a bet, the Obama campaign has a pretty could idea about when to release the full court press.

    Timing? (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:36:20 AM EST
    He timed the economic meltdown?

    Puhleeeaz.

    Parent

    That's what some fringe Pumas (none / 0) (#42)
    by JoeA on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:53:55 AM EST
    and some on the religious right will think.

    Did you not hear that Obama is actually the antichrist . . . he  has the power to cause an economic meltdown.

    Parent

    No, he definitely lucked out. . . (none / 0) (#58)
    by LarryInNYC on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 08:47:43 AM EST
    with the economic crisis (at least in terms of immediate political gain).  My comment was more prospective -- I expect that his people have a strong close planned for the campaign.  He seems (based on a sample size of one campaign) to close well.

    Parent
    Huh? Which one campaign? (5.00 / 2) (#70)
    by Cream City on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 10:15:30 AM EST
    Based on the primaries, the concern ought to be that Obama does not close well.  He began well and won the first six weeks.  After that, he lost the popular vote and only won the super-delegates.

    Of course, the competition is quite different now.  I bet he could not beat Clinton today, with her grasp of the economy.  McCain, of course, blew that badly . . . although not with the diehard GOP base.  If they get fired up, it could cost Obama some states.  But that base is distracted now by the economy, by the loss of jobs that is spreading to all sectors (i.e., a huge employer in my town, the Rockwell hq, announced white-collar layoffs, etc.).

    Parent

    alternate universe much? (none / 0) (#74)
    by wystler on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 10:28:07 AM EST
    Obama closed the deal by holding up on Super Tuesday and sweeping February. After that, it was only a matter of playing four corners, running out the clock.

    Obama's camp was telling volunteers in Spring 2007 that if they won the Iowa caucus, the nomination was in the bag. Pretty prescient bunch.

    Parent

    Cream is right (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by coigue on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 11:08:55 AM EST
    unless you change the meaning of the word "close".

    Parent
    Nonsense, Wystler. Obama peaked (none / 0) (#89)
    by Cream City on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 11:14:52 AM EST
    on February 19.  If he had continued to win as he did in the first six weeks, it would have ended in late March or early April -- and would not have been up to the super-delegates.

    Your comments may make you feel better, but the data do not support your rah rah sis boom bah.  Look at the calendar, look at the results, and be reality-based.

    Parent

    i am reality-based (none / 0) (#102)
    by wystler on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 11:51:25 AM EST
    from March 1 going forward, all Obama camp needed to do was protect their lead. all but the most rabid Clinton fans knew it was over.

    Parent
    Obama has been solid (5.00 / 3) (#56)
    by Steve M on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 08:24:34 AM EST
    but all he's done since the convention is to run a solid campaign and let McCain destroy himself, with an assist from the state of the economy.  I don't see how he controlled the timing of any of that.

    It was the economic crisis combined with McCain's flailing response that got us where we are today.

    Parent

    Very true (none / 0) (#73)
    by flyerhawk on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 10:25:36 AM EST
    But honestly that was the right play in this election.  

    Obama has done a good job of sticking to the issues and tying McCain to the GOP and Bush.  That's all he really needs to do.  

    Parent

    Yes. I agree 100%. (none / 0) (#85)
    by coigue on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 11:10:37 AM EST
    Obama has not made a major mistake. Biden has made some whopper gaffes, but it goes to show you that it really is about the top of the ticket.

    Parent
    How can McCain change the game? (none / 0) (#13)
    by WS on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:29:00 AM EST
    He's going to have to run to the left of Obama on the economy to even have a chance and even then, his credibility will be questioned.  What can McCain do unless he's got more character attacks that can be easily deflected by Obama as the same old politics.  

    Still, I'm not going to be happy until a Democrat wins on election day (with 60 or close to 60 seats in the Senate).      

    McCain and the GOP (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by TruthMatters on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:32:37 AM EST
    will look to destroy Obama now.

    Ayers, Wright, Rezko, no birth certificate, that guy who "slept" with Obama that No Quarter was in love with. Chicago thug politics.

    all of it. at this point if Palin doesn't win her debate.

    they will go negative, they will go negative hard.

    because at this point what does the Republican party have to lose anymore?

    Parent

    You're right that McCain'll do something desperate (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by barryluda on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:56:17 AM EST
    It'll most likely be going negative on Obama although, knowing McCain's tendency for knee-jerk-go-against-conventional-wisdom decision making, I suppose it's also possible that he get pissed off he's losing and completely disavow the Bush/Rove group running his campaign and "go it alone" and try to be above it all.

    OK, wishful thinking on my part.  McCain will make the Bush/Rove style of campaigning look mild by comparison.  It's going to get ugly.

    Parent

    All he has left (none / 0) (#23)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:36:43 AM EST
    That is the play. He has no  other choice.

    Parent
    this is why I am biting my nails (none / 0) (#36)
    by Lil on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:50:18 AM EST
    The problem for McCain (none / 0) (#72)
    by flyerhawk on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 10:21:37 AM EST
    is no one is going to care about Ayers or Rezko.  People are voting with their wallets right now and bringing up people they never heard simply won't matter.

    On Wright they could gain some traction however it will be really hard to pull it off without the media talking about Wright.  

    Does McCain really want to start up adds under his name smearing Obama because of his pastor?  Not likely.  

    They will go negative certainly but this isn't 2004 or 2000 for that matter.  Unless they can find something really damning, it just won't have the sticking power they will need.  

    And their decision to piss off the media isn't going to help.

    Parent

    They've already flown that stuff and it died. (none / 0) (#96)
    by Christy1947 on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 11:19:41 AM EST
    Several times. Only works its best the first time out. Which was March. In an electorate with the attention span of a gnat, that's Roman History. "Oh, that?"

    Parent
    And the village will revolt. (none / 0) (#98)
    by Faust on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 11:24:53 AM EST
    That is my bet. They will turn on McCain even harder than they already have.

    Here is the final problem for McCain with the economy: the press elite trust Obama more than they trust McCain.

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    You'd need a perfect storm ... (none / 0) (#20)
    by Robot Porter on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:33:57 AM EST
    MCCain doing a bunch of really clever things, and Obama doing a series of dumb ones.

    Not beyond the realm of possibility.

    But looking increasingly unlikely.


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    Obama will not do a bunch of stupid things (none / 0) (#87)
    by coigue on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 11:12:23 AM EST
    he is very politically careful. Very even-keeled.

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    I think you're confusing ... (none / 0) (#100)
    by Robot Porter on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 11:33:18 AM EST
    timid with even-keeled.

    And he has a propensity for gaffes.

    But it would have to fairly colossal at this point.

    Though anything is possible. Obama is a poor finisher.

    But I don't see it happening.

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    I don't think I am, actually. (none / 0) (#103)
    by coigue on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 12:03:30 PM EST
    But, thanks for caring ;-)

    (BTW, I agree that Obama finished poorly in the primary, or rather, Hillary got much much better...I don't see McCain getting much much better. The sample size for your assertion is 1)

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    Not really ... (none / 0) (#105)
    by Robot Porter on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 05:41:34 PM EST
    I count every time he failed to close the deal from NH onward.

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    Guess we disagree, then. (none / 0) (#106)
    by coigue on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 11:16:46 AM EST
    yeah, the more time that passes, (none / 0) (#46)
    by Howard Zinn on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 08:00:15 AM EST
    the more desperate McCain will look if he tries to manufacture a game changer.  Since the economy is such a monster of a real issue now, lipstick-on-a-pig-type issues just look plain silly.

    I picture McCain sinking in the quick sand of public opinion.  He keeps thinking he's digging himself out of his problems, but then he looks around to see that he's just been digging himself deeper and deeper.  He says, "Something's wrong in the world, but I'll show 'em.  I'm a maverick.  I'll dig extra fast with Hulk-like power!"

    Someone or something could throw him a rope, but it would take something really weighty and with real consequences to the middle class to make a difference at all.  

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    Stick a fork in McCain-Palin, they're done. (none / 0) (#19)
    by JoeA on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:33:28 AM EST
    and it couldn't happen to a more deserving ticket.

    eh, I will wait (5.00 / 2) (#35)
    by TruthMatters on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:50:18 AM EST
    untill after the GOP begin their negativity assault.

    we know negative ads work, it will tighten the race again.

    the question with only about 34 days left, how tight can negative politics bring it before it backfires on McCain.

    and with McCains current narrative of lying, they better be DAMN careful with those ads, or they just invite the media to replay the McCain is a liar meme.

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    have you been paying attention (none / 0) (#75)
    by wystler on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 10:31:23 AM EST
    McCain camp has been going negative. For weeks. Lying through their teeth doing it. There's not much ammo left there.

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    I'm sorry but... (none / 0) (#54)
    by ks on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 08:22:11 AM EST
    while the race may be Obama's to lose, those Q polls seem dubious.  Their pre and post debate numbers listed above look to be very suspicious.  It's looks like Zogby might have some company.

    Halve the lead if you like (none / 0) (#55)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 08:23:19 AM EST
    I sort of did that in my head. Do the math.

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    you're a genie-ous! (none / 0) (#88)
    by coigue on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 11:13:20 AM EST
    Other polls... (none / 0) (#62)
    by CoralGables on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 08:58:40 AM EST
    from other 2004 GOP states this week also show a post debate bounce when comparing the same pre-debate poll.

    INDIANA
    SurveyUSA    McCain +3 - Obama gains 3

    VIRGINIA
    Insider Adv    Obama +6 - Obama gains 8
    Fox/Ras        Obama +3 - Obama gains 5

    COLORADO
    Fox/Ras        Obama +1 - Obama gains 3

    NORTH CAROLINA
    PPP              Obama +2 - Obama gains 2

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    I prefer the RCP compilation to cherrypicking (none / 0) (#63)
    by ks on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 09:16:31 AM EST
    Those Q polls are strange.  In PA their +15 Obama is almost double anybody else's, in FL the current swing is +3 McCain to +3 Obama and they're at +8 Obama?, in OH, two polls are +1 McCain one +2 Obama and they're +8 Obama?  C'mon, while there has been solid movement to Obama that seems pretty absurd. I think BTD's approach of cutting Q's numbers in half seems about right.

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    I agree... (none / 0) (#65)
    by CoralGables on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 09:30:50 AM EST
    The Q poll in those states look like possible outliers but the trend from state to state is real. No matter what state you choose, no matter what polling outfit you choose, there has been a definitive post debate bounce in Obama's favor.

    In addition, you also see the bounce showing up in the Senate races. There have been only two this week of interest and one of them pops on the radar for the first time.

    NC Hagan (D) NC +8 the DEM gains 3
    GA Chambliss (R) +2 the DEM gains 15

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    More then economics (none / 0) (#64)
    by pluege on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 09:16:47 AM EST
    Big Liar John was always failing on the policy thingy, but was staying competitive and even leading for a while on the character thingy. Porkbarrel palin initially gave him a boost in that area as well, but now is becoming another boat anchor around his neck along with bush, and the revelations of Big Liar John's own erratic behavior.

    Policies no one but the 25% whack pack like, and character that no one but the 25% whack pack like: a daunting situation for Big Liar John to overcome in a month. About all they have left is some super-dooper out-a-sight violence-dripping October surprise that sends the sheople running back to daddy.

    I'm troubled by the lack of crosstabs for race (none / 0) (#67)
    by andgarden on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 09:34:58 AM EST
    especially in Florida.

    These seem to lean too D to me, though obviously I would be delighted if they were correct.

    If there is a new Bin Laden video? (none / 0) (#69)
    by vector on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 10:13:37 AM EST
    How would a Bin Laden video - if on the eve of the election - affect the outcome of the race>

    It seemed to be the death knell for the Kerry campaign in '04.

    Jim

     

    i suspect that in 2008 ... (none / 0) (#76)
    by wystler on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 10:33:37 AM EST
    ... the public will be reminded that, after over 7 years, OBL is still at large

    Parent
    It might have in '04 too, (none / 0) (#81)
    by Lil on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 11:05:06 AM EST
    if Kerry didn't look ashen after it came out; and if he hammered the point that Osama should have been dealt with already. He tried, but somehow he always looked a little scared after that.

    Parent
    the media's narrative ... (none / 0) (#101)
    by wystler on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 11:49:33 AM EST
    ... had Kerry back on his heels. He was in no position to take advantage.

    It's a far different media landscape this time.

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    After McCain said that Obama (none / 0) (#90)
    by coigue on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 11:15:13 AM EST
    was wrong to suggest we pursue OBL into Pakistan???

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    Doesn't matter (none / 0) (#94)
    by Steve M on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 11:17:19 AM EST
    The economy will drown out any foreign policy development short of an actual attack on American soil.

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    Bill Clinton to campaign for (none / 0) (#86)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 11:10:52 AM EST
    Obama in FL today.  So FL swings for Obama.  What an asset, eh?

    Yeah Big Dawg! (none / 0) (#91)
    by coigue on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 11:15:30 AM EST
    Ah, but Bill will be parsed (none / 0) (#92)
    by Cream City on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 11:16:22 AM EST
    down to his punctuation, and the only solid prediction is that it will not be enough for some people . . . and especially some blogs.:-)

    Parent