Biden on Change and Single Fatherhood

By Jeralyn, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 10:08:53 PM EST
Tags: Sarah Palin, Joe Biden (all tags)

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Sarah Palin does not own family issues. McCain does not represent change.

Look, I understand what it's like to be a single parent. When my wife and daughter died and my two sons were gravely injured, I understand what it's like as a parent to wonder what it's like if your kid's going to make it.
I understand what it's like to sit around the kitchen table with a father who says, "I've got to leave, champ, because there's no jobs here. I got to head down to Wilmington. And when we get enough money, honey, we'll bring you down."

More...

I understand what it's like. I'm much better off than almost all Americans now. I get a good salary with the United States Senate. I live in a beautiful house that's my total investment that I have. So I -- I am much better off now.
But the notion that somehow, because I'm a man, I don't know what it's like to raise two kids alone, I don't know what it's like to have a child you're not sure is going to -- is going to make it -- I understand.
I understand, as well as, with all due respect, the governor or anybody else, what it's like for those people sitting around that kitchen table. And guess what? They're looking for help. They're looking for help. They're not looking for more of the same.

[CNN transcript.]

< Biden's Best Answer: John McCain is No Maverick | Former San Quentin Warden Condemns Death Penalty >

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Biden on Change and Single Fatherhood | 48 comments (48 topical)

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Did he get choked up, (5.00 / 1) (#1)
by jpete on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 10:13:39 PM EST

with tears? That's how it seemed to me. I think/hope it came across as authentic. And it subtract from Palin's stance as the authentic parent.

He cries a lot. (5.00 / 2) (#2)
by LarryInNYC on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 10:14:52 PM EST

I like that about him.


: Link? (5.00 / 1) (#44)
by oculus on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 11:27:57 AM EST

: I'd love to see (none / 0) (#50)
by jpete on Sat Oct 04, 2008 at 12:35:23 PM EST

some more on this.

Whatever it was, (5.00 / 2) (#3)
by mg7505 on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 10:19:14 PM EST

it was beautiful. Biden hit a home run with this one.


This was probably my second (5.00 / 5) (#4)
by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 10:23:40 PM EST

favorite Biden moment tonight and it's sort of personal,it caused me to touch that place in me and losing my own family in such a quick unpredictable way. I was a surviving child, my mom perished, other children perished.....it is no small thing to recover from something like that and carry on with your life and strive to accomplish as Biden has. The fact that he can speak so clearly about it tells me he has had his times/moments when he has grieved it too, along with being there for his surviving children and his constituents.

What was the first (none / 0) (#6)
by mg7505 on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 10:25:28 PM EST

favorite?


When Palin was talking about the (5.00 / 4) (#7)
by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 10:32:01 PM EST

powers of the vice prez and hinted at Unitary Executive. I knew what she was getting at. I wondered if anyone but a political nut knew though. When Biden rebutted he said nothing in any way attacking Palin or even questioning her concepts of what the office of VP entails. He simply said that Dick Cheney has been the most dangerous Vice President we have ever had. It was beautiful.


Sweet. Mine was (5.00 / 2) (#10)
by mg7505 on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 10:36:37 PM EST

the "John McCain is no maverick." No one has had the cojones to say that thus far.

The Prez. debate will be boring after this one...but at least John McCain can say "nuke-u-ler" and doesn't wink at the camera.


Lordy lordy I forgot the winking at the (5.00 / 2) (#13)
by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 10:39:30 PM EST

camera thing. The first time she did I thought to myself, "Did she just wink?" Then she did it again and yup, she's winking at me....but she doesn't even know me. That seems a bit forward, a bit overly familiar, I don't even know her and I still don't know what she was letting me in on. I didn't get it.


My mother, who is a psychologist (5.00 / 1) (#38)
by coigue on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 05:09:21 AM EST

say that Palin is very typical of a narcissistic personality...in that she doesn't process what the other person in the conversation is saying and respond, rather she performs for that person.


Interesting (none / 0) (#40)
by Militarytracy on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 09:01:09 AM EST

She does seem to be in some sort of bubble encased in complete confidence but making no sense that I can discern.


When you are a religious fundamentalist... (5.00 / 1) (#42)
by Dadler on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 10:21:37 AM EST

...and the mystery of existence, the quetion that puzzles and confounds most people, is completely "solved" in your constricted mind, then what's not to be confident about? You have the ultimate answer, everyone who doesn't think like you is wrong, and everything else is just whatever happens on your way to heaven.


I really despise her (5.00 / 1) (#46)
by coigue on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 12:00:52 PM EST

as much as BTD despises McCain. She reminds me of a cruel homecoming queen that will manipulate and flirt with you to get you to do her homework or to vote for her, but will insult and laugh at you if it amuses you.

She has a meanness about her.


You pegged her but good (5.00 / 1) (#47)
by Militarytracy on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 12:13:30 PM EST

She is a mean homecoming queen. I used to run with the mean homecoming queen crowd in my stupid youth but I was always slightly out of place trying to go there and identified as an imposter a couple of times :) I don't despise her, but the mean homecoming queen does not belong running this country. Can you imagine the priorities that would be overtly important? I avoid saying that any politician is a copy of this one or that one. It is too easy to say such things and then turn your noodle off. The way she carries herself though and frosts everything in her way and then uses sprinkles.....even turds, we are headed right back to no casual clothing allowed in the oval office and reporters wearing seersucker or eyewear for health reasons will be mocked and/or ridiculed. Everything in its place and even if the world catches on fire it is still okay because the people hanging out in oval office are dressed properly.


: Bush is the same way (5.00 / 1) (#48)
by coigue on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 12:16:17 PM EST

they wink and smile at you , then they screw you over....

An alternative point of view.... (5.00 / 1) (#5)
by jerry on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 10:23:59 PM EST

A lot of single fathers give Biden great credit for being a single father, but the truth is, the policies he's advocated over the years harm single fathers not lucky enough to be named Joe Biden.

Here's an essay from one person among many who struggles on how to support a ticket that has said some vicious anti-father statements over the past few months.

That article rightly (5.00 / 1) (#8)
by mg7505 on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 10:34:39 PM EST

calls out Obama/Biden on some gender issues. But it's not a "dilemma" (as the author claims) when one ticket is a little less progressive than you'd like, whereas the other will actively work against ANY progressive reform. Don't let good be the enemy of the perfect.*

*Obviously this doesn't cut Obama any slack; we've still got to hold their feet to the fire.


For some of us who've had our kids taken away (5.00 / 2) (#19)
by jerry on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 10:56:41 PM EST

by bias in the court, there is literally no greater cause.

I've had three court psychs recommend I share joint 50/50 custody of my kids. Because of various legal shenanigans involving false accusations made in ex-parte hearings under the banner of domestic violence, I've had that 50/50 custody removed on many occasions, until a real hearing could take place pointing out the complete lack of evidence.

But the damage was done and the anchor point set.

Finally, the mother was allowed to move out of state with the kids while I had to maintain a job for the child support payments. The result is today I live in a city and state that's well, basically not at all where I would want to live, with no career prospects, and I see my kids every other weekend, in contrast to what the court psychologists recommended.

Now, I'm as liberal as can be, and I want to support any and all of these causes, but the hole in my heart, is just so f'n huge, that, frankly, I just don't care much of the time.

I was a good father, I am a good father, I want my kids back. And any "liberal" that tells me all sorts of good things about VAWA and the perfect being the enemy of the good, well, they just don't get the pain the system inflicted on me.

And frankly, it makes me bitter and ugly, and makes me understanding of why people vote selfishly.


That is unfortunate (none / 0) (#23)
by WS on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 11:03:56 PM EST

and divorce can be bitter and divisive. Is there a pro 50/50 custody bill if there are two capable loving parents that you can put your energy into. I'm not well versed in custody rights issues but perhaps, crafting or championing a bill for Congress would do you some good?


: I would actually love to do that (5.00 / 1) (#24)
by jerry on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 11:22:37 PM EST

I'm not well versed in custody rights issues but perhaps, crafting or championing a bill for Congress would do you some good?
The "fights" appear to be at state levels. Some states do much better than others. Sadly, my state is very unorganized at this level, and I don't have the time to take from work to get very far. But I do what I can, which is just not enough.
It's why it is frustrating to me to hear that Obama and Biden make the statements they do. It would be nice to have some national leadership on this, but "pandering" in this degree is clearly the politically correct thing to do.
It goes across the political spectrum. Robert Bork has said there is no constitutional right for a father to have custody.

Uh... (5.00 / 1) (#9)
by Brillo on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 10:35:04 PM EST

That group has a long-running vendetta against Biden because of his support for the Violence Against Women Act, which they believe discriminates against Men... Not even remotely credible or impartial.


: Which group? (5.00 / 1) (#18)
by jerry on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 10:50:32 PM EST

And VAWA was obviously written not to be gender neutral. It could have been written to be gender neutral. But it wasn't and Biden won't discuss it with anyone.
Research shows that women are often the perpetrators in domestic violence, and yet VAWA does nothing for the male victims of domestic violence. Many domestic violence shelters will not allow boys inside.
If you want to talk credibility talk about the actual research:
"#5: "Domestic violence research overwhelmingly shows that women are just as likely as men to initiate and engage in domestic violence, and that only a small percentage of women's domestic violence is committed in self‑defense. Studies show that women often compensate for their smaller size by their significantly greater use of weapons and the element of surprise."
Source: Richard J. Gelles, Ph.D., "The Missing Persons of Domestic Violence: Male Victims," The Women's Quarterly, Fall, 1999. See Gelles.
Source: References Examining Assaults by Women on Their Spouses or Male Partners: An Annotated Bibliography by Martin S. Fiebert, Department of Psychology, California State University, Long Beach. See http://www.csulb.edu/~mfiebert/assault.htm.
Source: Patricia Pearson, When She Was Bad: Violent Women & the Myth of Innocence, Penguin Books, 1998, pp. 119‑123.
Source: David Fontes, "Violent Touch: Breaking Through the Stereotype," David L. Fontes, Psy.D., CEAP See http://www.safe4all.org/essays/vtbreak.pdf.
Source: Cathy Young, Ceasefire!: Why Women and Men Must Join Forces to Achieve True Equality, The Free Press, 1999, pp. 91‑96."
I would hope a website like TL that so clearly exists to protect the innocent, would have readers able to see how many innocent people are harmed with abuse of temporary restraining orders in ex-parte (one side only) hearings that are used to game the system.
VAWA could have been written in a gender neutral fashion. Portions of it have been overturned for being unconstitutional.
It's a well intentioned law. It's not a good law, and Biden refuses to discuss it.

I appreciate sher's abuse of the rating system. (5.00 / 1) (#20)
by jerry on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 10:57:59 PM EST

Clearly, a post that says, "here is an alternative point of view" and links to an essay is a crappy post deserving of a low rating.


it may have been (3.50 / 2) (#21)
by dws3665 on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 11:00:18 PM EST

your blog-clogging and self-righteousness.


Three comments was a blog clog? (5.00 / 2) (#25)
by jerry on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 11:24:11 PM EST

And rating the first comment a two, a comment that consisted of something like two paragraphs and two sentences and a link was a blog clog.

If sher had any guts, he/she would explain its ratings as opposed to just rating down people she/he disagrees with.

Sorry if I am self-righteous. I suspect you don't even know what that means.


Jerry, just ignore Sher (5.00 / 2) (#30)
by gyrfalcon on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 12:26:29 AM EST

He/she does this all the time, in blatant violation of the rules. Feel sorry for someone who gets their jollies that way. Not worth the energy to even bother resenting it. It's just juvenile.


Giving... (5.00 / 1) (#31)
by Thanin on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 12:40:36 AM EST

a rating of 2 isnt against the rules.


Gving low ratings (3.50 / 2) (#34)
by gyrfalcon on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 01:04:51 AM EST

just because you disagree or, as in Sher's case most often, because you don't like the facts presented, is definitely against the rules.


: No... (5.00 / 1) (#36)
by Thanin on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 01:35:27 AM EST

rating a 1 when you just disagree is against the rules. 2-5 is rating your agreement/disagreement.

it writes itself (1.00 / 2) (#26)
by dws3665 on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 11:37:32 PM EST

you left the "(sniff)" off the end of your comment.


Self-righteousness? WTF? (5.00 / 2) (#29)
by gyrfalcon on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 12:25:02 AM EST

The guy is in a huge amount of pain. He's not allowed to rant a little bit about the politics that have created laws he feels have skewed things against him?

Good grief.


: You can say that again..... (none / 0) (#41)
by kdog on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 09:25:58 AM EST

Is it even up for debate that fathers often get the shaft when it comes to child custody and parental rights?
I thought it was common knowledge.
My sympathies jerry...I know what it's like to get the shaft from your government, though to much lesser extent...I've only been locked up a few times, I can't imagine putting up with what you go through.

I understand the essayist's position (none / 0) (#16)
by befuddledvoter on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 10:46:40 PM EST

The problem, I see, lies with the gender bias of the courts. Obama's statements on Father's Day did not go over well with many men. Violence Against Women's Act certainly presumes only women can be victims. Hoever, the problem is with the courts.


Biden (5.00 / 2) (#12)
by WS on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 10:38:39 PM EST

did such a great job. There was a clear contrast between a substantive answer and a non-substantive answer. I agree when someone said Palin was like a Reagan parody, a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy.

: Well, it's the house that Reagan (none / 0) (#15)
by mg7505 on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 10:46:19 PM EST

built, not who moved in after he moved on.

Palin (5.00 / 1) (#14)
by UniteAsOne on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 10:44:17 PM EST

I am a Democrat, and remain so. Biden only reaffirmed my decision for Obama. Palin, did better than expected, but she absolutely refused to answer a couple of questions by talking about another thing entirely. You cannot do that when sitting across from other dignitaries, and especially heads of state. McCain and Palin's take on Afghanistan and Pakistan really is unsettling, and find it dangerous (a word Palin likes to use). I found Biden to answer distinctly and understandably on all the issues. Palin seemed to fall back on talking at the table in the home. Unfortunately, the tables she would be sitting around, if VP, are not family and friends whom tend to agree with her and it's a warm and loving environment.

: She's just talking with (none / 0) (#17)
by mg7505 on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 10:48:03 PM EST

preconditions -- like the one she set at the beginning, which is that "I'm not going to answer questions the way you want; I'm going to talk to the American people." Unfortunately the American people to Palin means her (shrinking) base, who couldn't care less about the questions being asked as long as someone is chanting "drill, baby, drill!"

Just went... (5.00 / 1) (#27)
by Thanin on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 11:41:40 PM EST

to a, ah, former democrats who are against Obama website and they were mocking this moment. Kind of sick to make fun of a guy getting chocked up talking about his wife and daughter dying.

Palin was heartless and clueless... (5.00 / 2) (#28)
by EddieInCA on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 12:23:04 AM EST

...about this moment. She had a chance to really hit a home run, by saying something like "I'm terribly sorry about the pain and sorry Sen. Biden wne through. I dont' know what I would do if something happened to Todd or one of our children. He's a very brave man for raising his kids the way he has, and being so good in his public service for all these many years... BUT... (insert inane talking point here)"

Instead, she immediately started talking, yet again, about "The Maverick". She was cluless, heartless, and insensitive.

On Rod Dreher's Blog, which is mostly social conservatives, one former supporter said this: "Palin lost me forever at that moment."

: exactly (none / 0) (#43)
by txpublicdefender on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 10:45:35 AM EST

I agree. I thought this was one of Biden's best moments, both because he was genuine and authentic, and also because he was refusing to cede that ground to her--his sort of indignant, "Don't tell me I don't know what it's like to sit at that table," (paraphrased) line was great. And I thought she looked heartless and clueless when she did not even acknowledge what he had said, but instead moved right into another memorized talking point about being a maverick. It was terrible.

I watched it on cspan (none / 0) (#11)
by hitchhiker on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 10:38:23 PM EST

were the cameras on other channels showing the two of them side by side through the whole thing?

there were times when his expressions seemed downright weird while she was talking--tho' not nearly as strange as hers.

she was obviously told to look like a happy warrior, and she kept the wide-eyed, big goofy smile on her face at the oddest times.

: I saw Biden raise his eyebrows at one point ... (none / 0) (#37)
by FreakyBeaky on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 01:59:55 AM EST

... I think at the accusation that Obama had voted to defund The Troops (or however the hell Palin put it). Other than that I thought it was mostly full, toothy grins when she said something particularly outrageous. Professional admiration I suppose.
I don't think anyone had to tell Palin to do the perma-smile thing. I think she learned that as a beauty contestant.
She only got visibly rattled a couple of times, in particular when Biden turned the defund-the-troops accusation back on McCain. That got her, and then it took her a few beats to come up with the White Flag of Surrender line. That was the closest thing to a Train Wreck moment for her, but she recovered just in time.

It Brought Tears To My Eye (none / 0) (#22)
by MTSINAIMAMA on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 11:03:02 PM EST

Biden was real.

Palin was phoney.

This was my favorite moment (none / 0) (#33)
by espeaks on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 12:55:11 AM EST

Although I haven't been through the adversity Biden has, I am a single parent. This moment helped show what I think is sometimes lost-that he is a real person with real issues in his personal life. Palin has tried to own this and this moment changed that.

On a side note with all the talk about Gwen Ifill, I really think she did a superb job. She was able to engage both of them, something Leherer failed to do.

: Yeah. (5.00 / 1) (#39)
by coigue on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 05:16:33 AM EST

I lost my dad when I was 4 to violent crime. It's pretty hokey, but I'd like to think he would have been like Biden as a father.

I liked this moment a lot (none / 0) (#45)
by CST on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 11:28:42 AM EST

And I am not one who is usually swayed by these things. But man, there can't be anything worse than losing a child. And I think it is important, becasue as an elder statesman who has been in the senate so long, he can come off a little impersonal. But I think this really nailed home that he does in fact "feel your pain".

I think it's pretty incredible that not only do we have a woman and an African American on the ticket, but that 3 of the 4 of them are not filthy rich. Now, the Obama's certainly got a lot richer the last few years, but all 3 have spent most of their lives in the solidly middle to upper-middle class range. Compared to 4 years ago when we had filthy rich all around, that's encouraging.

I thought (none / 0) (#49)
by JThomas on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 02:04:01 PM EST

it was a very genuine moment for Biden. And I thought Palin showed a tone-deafness that reflects her scripted performance. No spontaneity in her repitoire. She is simply unable to go off of talking points.
She would not do well in real debates with followup questions. She is an inch deep.

It is frightening to think she could be president.