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Sarah Palin Who?

By Jeralyn, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 07:37:48 AM EST
Tags: Sarah Palin (all tags)
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The LA Times reports on Gov. Sarah Palin's college years.

In the five years of her collegiate career, spanning four universities in three states, Palin left behind few traces. Not many professors or students even remember her.....interviews with a dozen professors yielded not a single snippet of a memory.

...."Looking at this dynamic personality now, it mystifies me that I wouldn't remember her," said Jim Fisher, Palin's journalism instructor at the University of Idaho, where she graduated with a bachelor of science degree in journalism in 1987.

Palin, he said, took his public affairs reporting class, an upper-division course limited to 15 students. "It's the funniest damn thing," Fisher said. "No one can recall her." "I don't remember her," said Roy Atwood, Palin's academic advisor at the university.

The Times says it's different for the other candidates: [More...]

Sen. John McCain is remembered as a passionate contrarian who won the hearts of his classmates at the Naval Academy. Sen. Barack Obama, who attended Occidental College, Columbia University and Harvard Law School, is remembered as a daunting scholar and calming influence. Sen. Joe Biden, who had a brush with plagiarism at Syracuse University College of Law, is remembered fondly by professors who found him charming.

Here's an interesting incident from her college days, as told by Kim "Tilly" Ketchum, her good friend from Wasilla and former college roomate:

Ketchum could remember only one out-of-character incident.

"Someone pulled the fire alarm next to my door," she said. "We all were told there is an invisible dye that squirts onto your hand when you pull the alarm and you're not going to be able to hide. And Sarah looked at her hands, and said, 'Oh my God, look!' And she went and confessed."

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    Sarah Palin Who? | 106 comments (106 topical)

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    Men not remembering women students? (5.00 / 12) (#1)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 07:53:05 AM EST
    Not surprising on the least.

    What a dumb story.

    what? (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 08:05:51 AM EST
    gender has nothing to do with it.

    Parent
    What? (5.00 / 7) (#4)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 08:13:40 AM EST
    Gender has nothing to do with what? Sneering comments from professors bragging that they do not remember one of their students?

    Frankly, the story is bizarre in the extreme.

    Yep, a professor proud that he does not remember a student. Amazing. Frankly, I could respond in kind about these professors proud of their inattention to their students but I will not.

    Bottom line - a dumb story from the Times and an embarrassment for those professors in my view. At the very least, they could withhold their glee that they do not remember her. But classless and stupid seems to have been what they were aiming for and they succeeded.


    Parent

    BTW (5.00 / 12) (#5)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 08:19:09 AM EST
    This is the part of the story that should tell you that gender matters:

    Sen. John McCain is remembered as a passionate contrarian who won the hearts of his classmates at the Naval Academy. Sen. Barack Obama, who attended Occidental College, Columbia University and Harvard Law School, is remembered as a daunting scholar and calming influence. Sen. Joe Biden, who had a brush with plagiarism at Syracuse University College of Law, is remembered fondly by professors who found him charming.

    McCain was at the bottom of his class- when you are a man in a story attacking Sarah Palin - that translates into "passionate contrarian" as opposed to stupid idiot.

    Biden was a plagiarizer - that translates into "remembered fondly by professors."

    Obama never even wrote a note for the Harvard Law Review - that translates into "daunting scholar" when your goal is to slime a woman.

    On second thought, this article is not just dumb, it is pernicious.

    Parent

    Also, do we really want to play the (5.00 / 5) (#12)
    by ruffian on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 08:38:06 AM EST
    "We've been to top flight law schools and she hasn't" game? Something tells me Obama already has those voters.

    Parent
    It seems to me... (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by Jerrymcl89 on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 08:51:56 AM EST
    ... from things I've read previously, that hardly anyone from his undergrad days remembers Obama very much at all, either. He seems to have made an impression (though not necessarily as "daunting scholar") at Harvard, but he as older then, and had already found his path.

    McCain, of course, was the son of an admiral attending the Naval Academy. Obviously, people were going to notice him.

    Parent

    Actually (5.00 / 2) (#24)
    by Steve M on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 09:01:58 AM EST
    Obama did write a note, it just wasn't unearthed till this campaign because it was unsigned.

    I confess that while the "even from a young age, people knew he had that something special" story is a standard political cliche, I can't remember many examples of the opposite story being written.  Your points are well taken, and I'd add that I can't remember reading about any of McCain's professors recalling him as a student qua student, let alone recognizing that he had a special talent for leadership.  They remember him because he was the admiral's son and a bit of a rabble-rouser.

    Parent

    The opposite story (none / 0) (#55)
    by sj on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 10:43:33 AM EST
    I've actually heard several examples of the opposite story.  They were all related to Bush the Lesser and I can find them if need be.  They really were harbingers -- if one cared to take note.  

    Parent
    I don't think there have been many stories... (none / 0) (#58)
    by Jerrymcl89 on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 10:56:56 AM EST
    ... that involved McCain's professors - just his classmates. Probably because almost all of McCain's professors are dead.

    Parent
    I wonder how many of these outstanding professors (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by ruffian on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 08:19:23 AM EST
    Sarah Palin remembers.

    Of course, it the answer is 0, that will be spun as her being stupid also.

    Parent

    12 professors, not just one (5.00 / 4) (#9)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 08:28:40 AM EST
    You've registered your thoughts, I think your view is bizarre. I don't see how it would be different if they were talking about Dan Quayle. Feel free to write your own post but don't change the subject of mine. It's Palin, not sexism.  

    Parent
    My view is bizarre? (5.00 / 11) (#10)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 08:35:31 AM EST
    how boys and girls are expected to behave in the classroom:

    Teachers socialize girls towards a feminine ideal. Girls are praised for being neat, quiet, and calm, whereas boys are encouraged to think independently, be active and speak up. Girls are socialized in schools to recognize popularity as being important, and learn that educational performance and ability are not as important.

    (Emphasis mine.)

    I have 2 daughters and unfortunately, I know that I need to vigilant on the issue of sexism. I can take being called bizarre by you if it wakes a few people up. Sexism is not ok just because it is directed at a political opponent.

    I am leaving now.

    Parent

    Well, too much extrapolating going on... (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by Mike H on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 09:10:22 AM EST
    I've spent nearly 20 years in academia, and I'd be reluctant to suggest it definitely is gender bias going on here.

    Depending on the school and the field, women students are outnumbering and outperforming men, leading to more "memorable" female students.   And, conversely, in fields where women are not traditionally well-represented, a standout female scholar really does stand out.

    Many studies that suggest gender bias in education are typically examining high school or earlier.  College is a very different environment with a much broader range of teaching styles and class sizes.

    It's quite telling, for example, that in a small, seminar course (~15 students) she was not remembered.  Classes of 25 or more, you'll find that probably only a handful of students are remembered.  So, she probably had a relatively quiet, undistinguished college career, no extra projects or special committees, etc.   Still, she apparently blossomed after college, not something completely unheard of!

    The article ends up being a bit of a fluff piece and essentially goes over territory that is already obvious -- Sarah Palin is an intellectual lightweight without much interest in learning or any real intellectual curiosity.  There's nothing wrong with that in and of itself, but it's not necessarily a good trait in a vice president, especially during such troubled times.

    Parent

    Since I can not respond and this discussion (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 09:13:43 AM EST
    is considered verboten, please do not reply to my comments.

    I ask that of everyone. I think sexism is an important issue and J. does not want to discuss the issue on the context of this sexist article.

    Parent

    Socializing (none / 0) (#65)
    by Dadler on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 11:19:52 AM EST
    The biggest socializing factors with kids are, first, their families and, second, their peers.  When these influences are negative, as they so often are for so many kids, then teachers are spending their time fighting against it, and usually in the form of behavior modification.  Yes, there are bad teachers, Tent, but are you really going to broad-brush the socialzation effects of ALL teachers to the exclusion of family and peer influence, which are much stronger?

    Parent
    I asked for no replies (none / 0) (#66)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 11:25:15 AM EST
    Because I was told by J. not to discuss sexism in this thread.

    Please respect my request.

    Parent

    Sorry, T (none / 0) (#86)
    by Dadler on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 11:50:51 AM EST
    Musta missed it on the skim.  

    Peace.

    Parent

    Who's expectation is that? (none / 0) (#100)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 03:00:17 PM EST
    how boys and girls are expected to behave in the classroom:

    Teachers socialize girls towards a feminine ideal. Girls are praised for being neat, quiet, and calm, whereas boys are encouraged to think independently, be active and speak up. Girls are socialized in schools to recognize popularity as being important, and learn that educational performance and ability are not as important.

    Who's expectation is that?  My son and my daughter are both counter to that expectation.  You can find almost anyone to expect anything.  A stereotype is not a reliable indicator of reality.

    Parent

    BTW - last hit (5.00 / 5) (#28)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 09:12:26 AM EST
    It WAS different with Dan Quayle. His professors remembered him. And since they remembered in the context of not denigrating a woman, they remembered he was a crappy student- not a "passionate contrarian." Funny that.

    Parent
    Exactly (5.00 / 4) (#31)
    by ruffian on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 09:26:18 AM EST
    If he had been running against Ferraro at the time he would have been remembered as a 'creative linguist'.

    Parent
    Unfortunately, talking about Sarah Palin... (5.00 / 4) (#49)
    by marian evans on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 10:17:34 AM EST
    seems inevitably to involve sexism.

    Oddly enough, so did talking about Hillary Clinton.

    What was it those 2 politicians had in common? 'Cos it sure ain't their politics...

    Oh of course, they are "testosterone-deficient". Quel horreur!

    You know, when discussing female politicians does NOT involve sexism, then we will no longer have to keep raising the issue.

    Parent

    Well, to be fair... (none / 0) (#81)
    by Dadler on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 11:48:04 AM EST
    ...the second ANY of us start talking about politicians at all we are nipple deep in our own set of ingrained paradigms and prejudices.  

    Beyond politics and sexism, I find it curious that most discussions of "-isms" and prejudices too often become exercises in "my sh*t doesn't stink, only theirs does".  

    Parent

    Wasn't that a Christmas carol? (5.00 / 2) (#54)
    by marian evans on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 10:42:18 AM EST
    Twelve amnesiac professors
    Eleven prating pundits
    Ten journos lying
    Nine pastors praying
    Eight dubious neighbors
    Seven lobbyists funding
    Six moose escaping
    Five sexist things
    Four galling frauds
    Three unacceptable friends
    Two pseudo-Roves
    And an economy in a bear year

     

    Parent

    Just. Stop. (5.00 / 10) (#3)
    by ruffian on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 08:12:48 AM EST
    We get it: Sarah Palin: veeeeery baaaaad

    Whack the Palin Pinata! (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by Fabian on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 09:38:57 AM EST
    I know the phenomena well.  Another time, another place and another name.

    Bleah.

    Parent

    False alarm (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Zeno on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 08:26:30 AM EST
    So Sarah Palin's one memorable college incident is giving a false alarm? I guess not much has changed.

    Rim shot! (none / 0) (#88)
    by eric on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 11:53:24 AM EST


    Parent
    late bloomer? It happens. (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by Lil on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 08:27:23 AM EST


    One man's junk is another man's treasure (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by barryluda on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 08:37:36 AM EST
    Let's see, how do I make this on topic???

    On vacation I ran into one of my law school professors and was surprised that he acknowledged me with a wave.  That professor was Richard Epstein at the University of Chicago.

    I loved his class -- although he has a habit of spitting when he talks, which gets annoying -- even though he's probably the most conservative professor I had.

    He writes a weekly column for Forbes and in trying to bash Obama gives me hope that Obama will lead as a progressive with sensible trade policies, strengthening our unions, helping to bring back fair, progressive individual taxes, and fix our health care system.

    If this is still off topic, maybe I should have changed the subject to line up with the J vs. BTD debate to be:

    One man's junk is another woman's treasure

    You brought back a long dormant memory (3.66 / 3) (#19)
    by sher on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 08:52:50 AM EST
    if Epstein's spitting!

    a fellow alum

    Parent

    Okay, then. As an academic (5.00 / 6) (#13)
    by Cream City on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 08:39:53 AM EST
    who sits on admission committees, so I know all the laws and requirements that can be involved, maybe someone can answer these questions that I cannot -- since there are no transcripts released:

    How did a guy who wrote in his memoir that he was a poor student at Occidental College for two years get admitted to Columbia University to graduate?

    Lawyers here can help more with this one, too.  How did a guy who didn't get honors at Columbia, so he didn't get above a 3.5, get into Harvard Law with its requirement then of a 3.8?  And when there were 7,000 applicants for 500 openings?  

    "Remembered as a daunting scholar"?  Source on that?  I have seen several reports by several classmates at Columbia who say that no one remembers him.  And as for Harvard, he was made the head of the Law Review in the year that it dropped grades as the requirement.  And I have read its graduates saying that he is the only head of the Law Review never to have written an article for it (since made a requirement).

    Now, education is one thing, and intelligence another.  Obama certainly is intelligent.  But without transcripts, we don't know daunting a student he was.  All we know since is that he was a law review member and a law professor who never has published an article -- the other signs of scholarship, daunting or late-blooming.

    So are there other sources on this that I have missed?  This one is just another statement without evidence or sources -- not very daunting scholarship or journalism.

    Oh, and as a prof, I wish I could remember some of my thousands of students who have hit it big now.  But it's interesting that the A students often were the most quiet ones, so the ones least likely to be the class loudmouths.  (However, I do recall a C student who now is a famous comic.  He definitely was a class loudmouth and memorable for his uncanny imitations.  Including of profs.:-)

    I cannot comment on admission to Columbia but (5.00 / 3) (#16)
    by befuddledvoter on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 08:49:28 AM EST
    Harvard Law School is a different story.  Obama would have qualified for "legacy" points as his father got a graduate degree from Harvard.  Also, his years as a community organizer would have definitely separated him from the pack.  Note, GPA is only one variable employed for admission.  The fact that he graduated Columbia would have been a plus, despite lack of honors.  He had also a very compelling story which would have been part of his application packet. Harvard would love that story.  

    I am not at all suprised that he was admitted to Harvard Law.  

    As to law review article, he did not publish an article.  I agree.  I do believe that I read he graduated Harvard magna cum laude though.  Not chump change.  

    Parent

    Ah, a legacy. Like McCain. (none / 0) (#17)
    by Cream City on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 08:51:44 AM EST
    Thanks for clarifying -- I forgot that would be another benefit of being the son of a Harvard Ph.D.  Actually, the son of two Ph.D.'s.  That must make him part of a very small elite in this land.  

    Parent
    Yes a legacy (5.00 / 0) (#53)
    by CST on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 10:40:34 AM EST
    Like so many of them.

    One weird quasi-legacy fact - sometimes it's not just the relatives but the school.  If you went to my highschool you would've had a much greater shot of getting into Harvard (undergrad) than if you went to any other school - regardless of your parents.  I think the same can be said of a lot of high profile colleges, they have a local school that they tend to accept a greater percentage of students from.  This has nothing to do with any of the candidates, but it's kind of interesting.  Just one more example of all the strange ways you can get into college.  I worked in admissions at my school, and there are all sorts of random things they take into account.  For example, one student got accepted because they were from Wyoming - and my school didn't have any students from Wyoming.  I am sure the fact that I was a female engineer didn't hurt me either.  Does that mean I didn't deserve it??  It's pretty subjective.  The people that really get screwed in the admissions process are white kids from rich suburbs who want to study more "traditional" fields, and asian kids.

    Parent

    I know this factor all too well (1.00 / 0) (#108)
    by Cream City on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 04:27:20 PM EST
    and I used to work at a private college, very old and very respected in the heartland, that couldn't get a grad into Harvard Law School for the life of us.  So we finally spotted a likely one when he still was a frosh, and we started a massive effort in research and cultivation of the rich legal elite to stack the Board of Trustees with Harvard Law grads.

    So when the young 'un was a senior, we went to those trustees for reference letters -- and at last, we broke through the barrier.  And once the first from our campus was accepted, the next ones went forward just fine.

    I could tell you more stories from the inside of college admissions, but you are on to it -- and so it would be just as nefarious as expected.

    However, all that said, Harvard Law said in Obama's app year to not even apply without a 3.8.  I know this because a relative applied that year, a remarkable Renaissance guy with Phi Beta Kappa grades, well-rounded with regional records in athletics (and a contender for the Olympics), and much more.  But he must have come in at number 501.  (Btw, he went to a joint Princeton-NYU master's/law program and has done phenomenally well . . . for much less cost.  Not that there has been clarification of how Obama paid for Harvard Law, either, until the paid job of the law review, but that's yet another shrouded part of the past that probably will be explored and explained starting January 21.:-)

    Parent

    He has talked about student loans (5.00 / 0) (#119)
    by MKS on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 04:50:54 PM EST
    But, you talk of "shrouded" mystery.

    For conspiracy buffs, there is always one more question to ask....

    Parent

    But the problem is (none / 0) (#128)
    by Cream City on Wed Oct 22, 2008 at 11:13:53 AM EST
    that they don't show up on tax returns at the right times to clarify this.  Really, it is a mystery -- but only if you are open to finding it interesting.

    Parent
    So, you are a CPA? (none / 0) (#131)
    by MKS on Wed Oct 22, 2008 at 07:24:14 PM EST
    You have fly-specked Obama's returns?--you are in way too deep into this conspiracy stuff....

    Parent
    It does (4.00 / 1) (#23)
    by befuddledvoter on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 08:58:37 AM EST
    They use legacy points and it is hard to compete for those limited number of spots that are actually available.  It happens in all the ivy league schools, and elsewhere as well.  It is what it is.  I am not saying I like it.  I certainly have never benefited from legacy points of any kind. LOL    

    Parent
    Larry Tribe, a published constitutional (5.00 / 0) (#50)
    by oculus on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 10:25:41 AM EST
    law Professor at Harvard, has said really nice things about Obama.

    Parent
    They text each other. (5.00 / 0) (#90)
    by TChris on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 12:53:45 PM EST
    Which makes me wonder if Tribe won't get the Supreme Court nomination he deserves (although he'll only get confirmed if Dems are filibuster-proof in the Senate).

    Parent
    Not on ABA's speculative (none / 0) (#92)
    by oculus on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 01:16:23 PM EST
    list though.  

    Parent
    Maybe he (5.00 / 0) (#56)
    by eric on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 10:48:55 AM EST
    nailed his LSAT.  Get a 172 or higher, they will beg you to attend.  There are usually no hard and fast gpa requirements.  Also, some schools may find other things that make you stand out.  Perhaps a recommendation from someone with a lot of influence.  I one time had a professor offer to pull strings at the University of Chicago in the graduate history program.  No, I went to law school instead...  (Big Mistake ;) )

    Law Review requirements vary by school.  Sometimes its grades, sometimes you need to "write-on", which means that you submit an article and are judged on it.  At my school, you needed to write-on, but grades were a factor...  And it certainly wasn't rare for someone to be on the LR and not publish an article.  The Editor usually did have an article, if for no other reason than it is easy to push your own article in that position.


    Parent

    Heh (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by Steve M on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 11:04:05 AM EST
    I studied really hard for the LSAT because I wanted to go to Virginia very badly.  Did nothing but practice questions all summer.  Ended up getting a perfect score.  Virginia still rejected me!  Talk about competitive admissions.

    Parent
    Link? (none / 0) (#71)
    by oculus on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 11:37:37 AM EST


    Parent
    Uh oh (none / 0) (#82)
    by Steve M on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 11:48:20 AM EST
    Even my LSAT scores must be vetted now!

    Parent
    Maybe. But his daunting LSAT (2.00 / 0) (#111)
    by Cream City on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 04:30:45 PM EST
    score also is unknown.  

    Parent
    Mine shall remain (5.00 / 0) (#120)
    by eric on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 04:58:14 PM EST
    unknown, as well ;)  Actually, it was pretty much verboten to speak of one's score once you were in law school.  Furthermore, and I don't know if this applies to all law schools,  but it was a rule that LSAT scores were not to be used on resumes or in connection with applying for jobs.

    Parent
    Same re my GRE :-) (none / 0) (#121)
    by Cream City on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 05:25:55 PM EST
    But then, we're not running for president.

    Were I to do so, I know what I'd do re release of my transcripts, and especially if I campaigned on a promise of transparency.  What would you do?

    Parent

    Transcripts, (none / 0) (#130)
    by eric on Wed Oct 22, 2008 at 01:37:53 PM EST
    which I am proud of anyway, I would surely release.  The LSAT thing is touchy for reasons I stated above.  We were told that the LSAT gets you into law school, after that, leave it alone.

    Parent
    Cream, you never disappoint (5.00 / 0) (#106)
    by MKS on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 04:18:34 PM EST
    How off topic can you get?  

    The issue was Palin and you bash Obama instead....All without any links at all....All those "facts"--none with attribution or support....

    BTW, students on Law Review don't write articles--they write Notes....Obama wrote two I believe.

    Parent

    Whatever can be your point, CC? (none / 0) (#127)
    by Don in Seattle on Wed Oct 22, 2008 at 09:56:53 AM EST
    That Obama can't really be as intelligent as he appears?

    That he's got to be an affirmative action baby?

    That he gets help writing his speeches from, er, "hard-working people"?

    I guess I am wondering whether you intend to give the same level of dubious scrutiny to McCain's academic record, or to Palin's.

    Parent

    I bet she was MIA in her classes (5.00 / 4) (#14)
    by befuddledvoter on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 08:42:44 AM EST
    This does not surprise me at all.  She changed schools actually 5 times, not four.  One school she attended twice at two different times.  Not much time for her to bond and I suspect not much interest on her part for doing so. I really don't like this about her.  It shows an instability and lack of intellectual interest.  McCain and Obama were both quite memorable during their school years.  Just google them and you will see. I tried to search for anything on the web about Palin's school years and all I got was the number of schools she attended and how long it took her to complete her undergraduate degree.  

    I think it is very strange how many times she changed schools!!  I doubt that it had to do with money either as some have asserted.  She did have two working parents and received the beauty pagent scholarship of some sorts.  

    It is weird.  

    Not unusual then or now (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Cream City on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 08:45:49 AM EST
    among the working-class sort of students at public universities.  At mine, most of the graduates for years now have not started at my campus.  So when I review transcripts, I typically see pages and pages of transfer credits.

    By the way, Obama went to four colleges and/or universities.  Instability, according to you?

    Parent

    How four?? (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by befuddledvoter on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 08:55:08 AM EST
    Obama went to Occidental, Columbia and Harvard.  Only one transfer.

    Palin is not working class.  Her father was a high school biology teacher. Her mother might also be college educated.  Within her small circle of Wasilla, I am sure they were considered more professional family than working class.  Perhaps you are focusing on income?  Next to professional fisherman and oil workers, father may have been lower income.

    Parent

    and two degrees versus one (5.00 / 3) (#30)
    by Mike H on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 09:18:36 AM EST
    Obama went to three schools and got two degrees.  Sarah Palin went to four schools and got one degree.

    Again, nothing wrong with that in and of itself, but her transcript is certainly more unusual than his in this regard.  It's more than likely an example of a student who was struggling, or not particularly committed, or had some outside life stress affecting their educational track.

    I'm glad she completed -- I'm a big believer in education, and I think she should be applauded for finishing, whatever the circumstances.

    Parent

    His is pretty darn unusual (1.00 / 1) (#36)
    by Cream City on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 09:37:58 AM EST
    for the son of a mother on welfare, as he keeps saying, huh?

    Parent
    Took a course or two (none / 0) (#34)
    by Cream City on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 09:34:54 AM EST
    at a Chicago school, I read.

    Parent
    Yes, h.s. teacher (none / 0) (#35)
    by Cream City on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 09:37:07 AM EST
    was above norm, but mother more the norm for women then.

    And because of a teacher's pay, I read, she went for the beauty contest scholarship (as the equivalent of guys going for athletic scholarships).

    Parent

    If you're going to slam Obama (5.00 / 0) (#107)
    by MKS on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 04:24:15 PM EST
    it's best to get your facts straight....

    Parent
    I do. Such facts as have been (none / 0) (#110)
    by Cream City on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 04:29:12 PM EST
    released -- not transcripts, of course.

    Show me where it's wrong, as if you're going to slam, present the facts to do so at all.  

    All we have is your usual unfounded spew.

    Parent

    Actually, no, (5.00 / 0) (#114)
    by MKS on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 04:40:33 PM EST
    Jeralyn did not say that....The LA Times says that is how he is remembered--a one liner embedded in a much larger series of quotes.  But any excuse to tee off.

    Your vendetta against Obama is bit overdone, no?

    Parent

    Actually, this is to your comment below (none / 0) (#115)
    by MKS on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 04:43:05 PM EST


    Parent
    No, the burden is on you (5.00 / 0) (#118)
    by MKS on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 04:46:59 PM EST
    to present facts to support your accusations.....If you do cite references, as you know, that discipline avoids inaccuracies....

    I remember your posts about Metis Indians in the Primary...You are stuck there....Time to move on....

    Parent

    No, I have cited specifics (none / 0) (#129)
    by Cream City on Wed Oct 22, 2008 at 11:16:01 AM EST
    and you just editorialize with vagaries.

    Parent
    I agree Befuddled (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 08:56:08 AM EST


    Parent
    I attended two colleges in NJ, (5.00 / 2) (#84)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 11:50:14 AM EST
    one in NY and two in AZ...sorry, what were we talking about again?

    Parent
    I attended.... (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by kdog on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 10:02:36 AM EST
    let me think...1,2,3...4 universities.

    My reason was I was more interested in sex, drugs, and rock-n-roll than making it to class or writing papers....maybe Palin liked to party too.  One way to find out...forget about professors, see if the campus reefer-man remembers her, or whoever was holding the primo keg parties.

    Parent

    Should have joined me in school (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by nycstray on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 03:18:07 PM EST
    no papers, just paint  ;)

    Parent
    I can barely manage a stick figure... (none / 0) (#124)
    by kdog on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 05:32:58 PM EST
    so I don't think that woulda worked for me either:)

    It's all good, school ain't for everybody...shame I had to spend alotta money unnecessarily to figure it out is all...took the family and society pressures of "gotta go to college to get ahead" to heart.

    Now I work alongside some college grads making the same bank...go figure.

    Parent

    Honestly (none / 0) (#125)
    by CST on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 05:42:36 PM EST
    Even for those of us that college is a good idea, I think we all could've used some time off in-between.  I know I could've.  I really like the idea of a year of national service.  If that had been more obvious to me at the time I would've jumped all over it.  I needed a degree to do what I want to do, but I was NOT ready to take college seriously when I left HS.  In fact, school was the last thing I wanted to do.  I'm surprised I managed to graduate.

    Parent
    U of Idaho has (none / 0) (#85)
    by eric on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 11:50:27 AM EST
    by my count, 16 Fraternities and 9 Sororities.  For 11,000 students.  Plenty of party there, I bet.

    Parent
    CNN covered this in their (none / 0) (#83)
    by nycstray on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 11:48:31 AM EST
    Palin Revealed thing they did. Saw part of it. Something about finding a place where she was comfortable. Not as easy coming from Alaska (or Hawaii I would imagine).

    The piece also said she was very much a reader/bookish, so maybe she was more serious in her studies and not as much of a Baracuda in the classroom as she was on the court.

    I went to three schools and only have one degree. . . . very strange indeed.


    Parent

    I Never Noticed That Before You Mentioned It (none / 0) (#97)
    by daring grace on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 02:14:36 PM EST
    The Hawaii/Alaska element of this election...

    Never had serious contenders for the presidency/vice presidency from the 49th and 50th states before and now we have one of each this time around.

    Parent

    I wonder (5.00 / 2) (#21)
    by joanneleon on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 08:55:41 AM EST
    how many of my college professors would remember me.  And I was in a an engineering school where the ratio of men to women was 8:1.  I think a few of the profs in my specific department might remember me, but it wouldn't surprise me if they didn't.  I had a hard enough time managing all the classes I had to take, and my social life of course.  I worked part time, so I wasn't involved in many extracurricular things in college.

    I don't think it's that unusual that the profs don't remember her.  Plus, I'm not sure about the U of Idaho, but classes in state universities tend to be pretty big.

    I'm close in age to Palin, so those college days are decades ago now.  I'm trying to remember my professors right now, and I'm guessing that I can remember the names of about 20% of them, I can recall something vague about another 30 or 40% and the rest are just lost from memory.  

    P.S. On C-SPAN right now they are talking about Colorado amendment 54.  I hadn't heard of it before but it sounds like one of those things that could fool people into thinking it's a good thing, while it really aims to mess with that not so level playing field.

    Ah, you sound (5.00 / 3) (#44)
    by Lena on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 10:11:44 AM EST
    just like me (though I was in law school, not engineering school). Girls/women are still to some degree socialized to be quiet and let the men/boys speak.

    When I went to an all-women's college, I discovered that not having men in class really gave women the opportunity to speak out and participate.

    In high school, I got consistent "A+"s on my political science and history essays, but the most frequent comment on them was "Great handwriting!" A boy in class, who also got frequent A+s was encouraged by the teacher to apply for scholarships and participate in contests, but the teacher never mentioned these opportunities to me.

    Of course, he was also quite outspoken and amusing, while I was quiet and not so confident.

    I hope things are changing.

    Parent

    Rumors don't belong here. (5.00 / 2) (#48)
    by Teresa on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 10:17:25 AM EST
    Especially BS nasty ones like that.

    I deleted the rumor (none / 0) (#87)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 11:52:32 AM EST
    and the commenter who posted it is warned not to do it again.

    Parent
    Palin missed an opportunity to (5.00 / 2) (#51)
    by oculus on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 10:32:59 AM EST
    make an impression on her college profs.:  plagiarism.

    As a multiple-time transfer student, she obviously (5.00 / 0) (#57)
    by eric on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 10:52:35 AM EST
    didn't really have time to set down any roots at any of these schools.  I remember the transfer students that would come and go at my college.  They just didn't seem to be invested in the college the way as someone who started and finished at the same school.  I don't really remember any of them as standouts, either.

    Different paths for many (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by wasabi on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 11:45:12 AM EST
    I took the 12 year extended plan to graduate and ended up taking courses at 9 different institutions along the way.   I'm sure there is not one professor that would remember me.  I can think of a few Army officers that would remember me though.

    I wonder how this plays on main street (5.00 / 2) (#79)
    by Manuel on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 11:46:31 AM EST
    Wouldn't ordinary folks be inspred by Palin's story?  She has certainly accomplished a lot despite her modest academic credentials.  There are a lot more unremarkable students than Harvard Law grads.  I have always found this part of the political discourse to be pointless.  Did Bush party and get bad grades?  Did Bill inhale?  The genius of America is that people can rise above almost any kind of deficit.  It is the whole person that matters when evaluating candidates.  Their ideas, political track record, and positions are what we should consider.  That is what is objectonable in Palin not her background or academic record.

    When we attempt to disqualify people based on their background, we shoot ourselves in the foot.  Similar arguments will be made against our candidates at all levels.  Some of them are people we might want in government.

    The Hall of Fame (none / 0) (#25)
    by wurman on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 09:03:52 AM EST
    Earl Warren
    Henry Cabot Lodge, Jr.
    William Edward Miller
    Edmund S. Muskie
    Robert Sargent Shriver, Jr.
    Thomas F. Eagleton
    Robert J. Dole
    Walter F. Mondale
    Geraldine A. Ferraro
    Lloyd M. Bentsen, Jr.
    James D. Quayle
    Joseph I. Lieberman
    Johnny R. Edwards

    And coming soon, Sarah L.H. Palin, another also-ran vice-presidential candidate in the list of notable politicians who almost no one can identify 10 years after the election.  Not too memorable in college? very quickly, she'll be the answer to a trivia question, another footnote to electoral history.

    Yeah (5.00 / 5) (#26)
    by Steve M on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 09:06:05 AM EST
    In 1958, 10 years after he ran for VP, who the heck knew Earl Warren's name?

    Parent
    I'm trying to forget Joe Lieberman (5.00 / 2) (#32)
    by ruffian on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 09:27:52 AM EST


    Parent
    In 1953, when nominated to SCOTUS . . . (none / 0) (#39)
    by wurman on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 09:42:07 AM EST
    & only 5 years after the veep run, Earl Warren was an unknown--especially to Pres. Eisenhower who had no awareness of the CA governor's views.

    Even more humorous, today, as the notorious prime mover of Brown v. Board of Ed., Gideon v. Wainwright, Miranda v. Arizona, & the various "one man, one vote" decisions, few of his revilers even know that Dewey selected him to run for vice-president.

    In my opinion, this is Alex Trebek territory.

    Parent

    Well (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by Steve M on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 09:44:12 AM EST
    I daresay 99% of people today have no idea that FDR once ran for Vice-President, but I wouldn't say that makes him an unknown.

    Parent
    Drollery. And who recalls Gov. Cox? (none / 0) (#47)
    by wurman on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 10:17:17 AM EST


    Parent
    Always learning something new (none / 0) (#109)
    by MKS on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 04:28:47 PM EST
    I had always thought Warren had been Governor of California....But failed VP too?

    Parent
    Maybe it was a bad dream (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by ruffian on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 09:29:45 AM EST
    but didn't Dan Quayle actually serve as VP for four years?  That at least gets his portrait in a museum someplace.

    Parent
    And Mondale (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by eric on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 11:19:45 AM EST
    too.  Actually, that list has some great people on it.  Sarah Palin is the one that sticks out.

    Parent
    Not to mention (5.00 / 2) (#67)
    by Steve M on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 11:29:28 AM EST
    Sargent Shriver, who gave us the Peace Corps and is pretty much an all-star in the Liberal Hall of Fame, at least as far as I'm concerned.

    Parent
    Is this snark? (5.00 / 2) (#38)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 09:40:32 AM EST
    If not, it's really quite funny because your list contradicts your conclusion.


    Parent
    Both snarky & not so much (none / 0) (#45)
    by wurman on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 10:12:25 AM EST
    It seems to me that political junkies & history freaks will easily recall some aspects of the people on my veep list, but neither Joe Sixpak nor Joe the Plumber would remember any of them.

    Actually, Palin might not be able to identify any of them, either.  Well, maybe Lieberman & Ferraro--but only if the question came from an audience member instead of a reporter.

    Parent

    I guess I have a higher opinion of Joe Sixpack (5.00 / 5) (#63)
    by sj on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 11:09:45 AM EST
    than you do.  Most of my family is blue collar.  Those names are far from unfamiliar.  Even though we would gladly forget some of them (Lieberman, anyone?).

    Frankly, I'm rather offended by your assumptions.  Not only on behalf of my family, but on behalf of blue collar workers everywhere.  Who, incidentally, have just been dismissed as "Joe Sixpack" as if only political junkies and history "freaks" have a brain.

    Parent

    Well, at least it wasn't (none / 0) (#52)
    by lilburro on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 10:38:47 AM EST
    the NY Times.  If it were the McCain campaign might well be launching an all out onslaught against NY's socialist mouthpiece.

    Sounds a lot like W (none / 0) (#59)
    by sallywally on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 10:59:25 AM EST
    in the military.....

    This is the point I was going to make. (none / 0) (#91)
    by TChris on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 12:59:06 PM EST
    Nobody remembers W showing up to finish his National Guard assignment, apparently because he didn't.  Palin at least made it to enough classes to graduate.

    Parent
    I like the part about the weather. (none / 0) (#61)
    by oculus on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 11:02:54 AM EST
    Wish I had thought of that.  Ann Arbor has lousy weather, except in the spring and fall.

    We used to say (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by Steve M on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 11:30:05 AM EST
    that fall is beautiful in Michigan, for both days.

    Parent
    That, my friend, (none / 0) (#75)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 11:44:33 AM EST
    my be THE comment of this entire election season.

    Extremely well done.

    At least the TL version... (none / 0) (#80)
    by kdog on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 11:46:44 AM EST
    I concur, great freakin' comment.

    Parent
    I delelted a reply to my comment (none / 0) (#78)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 11:45:19 AM EST
    As Jeralyn stated, and I reiterated twice, my discussion of sexism is considered off topic in this thread and no one should reply to my comments raising that issue.

    Hoping J deletes the bashing of (none / 0) (#116)
    by oculus on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 04:43:33 PM EST
    BTD, whose work I read and enjoy.

    I did delete them (none / 0) (#126)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 06:00:24 PM EST
    they were off topic and readers may not insult the writers here. You are free to email us with your insults. You may or may not get a response.

    Parent
    While we're speculating, how about (none / 0) (#117)
    by oculus on Tue Oct 21, 2008 at 04:45:30 PM EST
    this.  First Dude and Sarah Palin met in high school, I think.  She goes off to Hawaii, then to Idado.  She takes courses in Alaska one semester, although still enrolled at Univ. of Idaho.  She works one summer with him in his salmon fishing business.  They marry in 1988, after her 1987 graduation.  Distracting?  You betcha.

    Sarah Palin Who? | 106 comments (106 topical)

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