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Labor Not "Waiting To See What Barack Does"

Don't they know they are supposed to leave Barack alone? Labor did not get the memo:

At a private meeting tomorrow in Washington, D.C., the most powerful and prominent leaders of the labor movement are planning to finalize the details of a major public campaign to push for what labor is hoping to get from the incoming Obama administration and the new Congress.

How dare they plan to pressure the President-elect? It is just plain wrong to ask for action on issues you care about from the people you helped elect. Ridicule is in order.

By Big Tent Democrat, speaking for me only

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    Priceless. (5.00 / 3) (#3)
    by oculus on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 03:46:51 PM EST
    Keep up the good work.

    How about the horse he rode (5.00 / 3) (#5)
    by oculus on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 03:48:04 PM EST
    in on?

    Labor is also (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by Lolis on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 03:51:52 PM EST
    not trying to dictate who Obama hires for key positions, including Treasury. Check out Talking Points Memo for the sourcing. It's great they are meeting. I've already signed a petition to pass the Employee Free Choice Act put out by SEIU. ACLU has a campaign going to shut down Gitmo. It looks like a great campaign and I support reminding Obama about all of his pledges he won on.

    BTD, you seem to want to make people's disagreements with you, into something that it's not. I certainly have not seen anyone write that they don't think Obama should receive grassroots pressure. He asks for it after all. People just didn't think that article on something Obama "may" do was a convincing source. Sheesh.

    You think? (none / 0) (#9)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 03:53:45 PM EST
    You really think that? Oh so naive.

    Parent
    BTW (none / 0) (#15)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 03:56:43 PM EST
    You gotta be kidding me with this one "I certainly have not seen anyone write that they don't think Obama should receive grassroots pressure."

    that is exactly what Cole said. That is exactly what the link I provide is about.

    You must be kidding.

    Now if you think Cole even addressed the Brennan issue, you must be joking again.

    Parent

    I'm not referring to Cole (none / 0) (#36)
    by Lolis on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 04:24:13 PM EST
    I mean the posters on this site who have responded to you about your Obamabot stuff who you choose to namecall. My point is I have not seen any widespread progressive bloggers movement to try to quash criticism of the Obama administration. Sure you can find an individual here and there, but people are not coming out against unions or the ACLU or MoveOn for pushing forward on their agendas.

    To call me naive is funny ... you know nothing about me.

    Parent

    Who have I namecalled in my threads? (none / 0) (#37)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 04:26:39 PM EST
    Please provide me a single link. Besides Larry of course. but other than that, no one.

    Parent
    By you (none / 0) (#44)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 05:25:15 PM EST
    Hey...you forgot (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by lilburro on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 03:53:46 PM EST
    the snark tag.

    I curse yeee.... (5.00 / 2) (#11)
    by Salo on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 03:54:24 PM EST
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/cumbria/4328259.stm

    fram thee teep o' ye toews tee tha har....I curse yee fields and yee cattle...

    The full version in the orginal scots... (none / 0) (#14)
    by Salo on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 03:56:37 PM EST
    eeeekkkk (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by Salo on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 03:57:00 PM EST
    I curse their head and all the hairs of their head; I curse their face, their brain (innermost thoughts), their mouth, their nose, their tongue, their teeth, their forehead, their shoulders, their breast, their heart, their stomach, their back, their womb, their arms, their leggs, their hands, their feet, and every part of their body, from the top of their head to the soles of their feet, before and behind, within and without."

    "I curse them going and I curse them riding; I curse them standing and I curse them sitting; I curse them eating and I curse them drinking; I curse them rising, and I curse them lying; I curse them at home, I curse them away from home; I curse them within the house, I curse them outside of the house; I curse their wives, their children, and their servants who participate in their deeds. I (bring ill wishes upon) their crops, their cattle, their wool, their sheep, their horses, their swine, their geese, their hens, and all their livestock. I (bring ill wishes upon) their halls, their chambers, their kitchens, their stanchions, their barns, their cowsheds, their barnyards, their cabbage patches, their plows, their harrows, and the goods and houses that are necessary for their sustenance and welfare."

    "May all the malevolent wishes and curses ever known, since the beginning of the world, to this hour, light on them. May the malediction of God, that fell upon Lucifer and all his fellows, that cast them from the high Heaven to the deep hell, light upon them."

    "May the fire and the sword that stopped Adam from the gates of Paradise, stop them from the glory of Heaven, until they forebear, and make amends."

    "May the evil that fell upon cursed Cain, when he slew his brother Abel, needlessly, fall on them for the needless slaughter that they commit daily."

    "May the malediction that fell upon all the world, man and beast, and all that ever took life, when all were drowned by the flood of Noah, except Noah and his ark, fall upon them and drown them, man and beast, and make this realm free of them, for their wicked sins."

    "May the thunder and lightning which rained down upon Sodom and Gomorra and all the lands surrounding them, and burned them for their vile sins, rain down upon them and burn them for their open sins. May the evil and confusion that fell on the Gigantis for their opression and pride in building the Tower of Babylon, confound them and all their works, for their open callous disregard and opression."

    "May all the plagues that fell upon Pharoah and his people of Egypt, their lands, crops and cattle, fall upon them, their equipment, their places, their lands, their crops and livestock."

    "May the waters of the Tweed and other waters which they use, drown them, as the Red Sea drowned King Pharoah and the people of Egypt, preserving God's people of Israel."

    "May the earth open, split and cleave, and swallow them straight to hell, as it swallowed cursed Dathan and Abiron, who disobeyed Moses and the command of God."

    "May the wild fire that reduced Thore and his followers to two-hundred-fifty in number, and others from 14,000 to 7,000 at anys, usurping against Moses and Aaron, servants of God, suddenly burn and consume them daily, for opposing the commands of God and Holy Church."

    "May the malediction that suddenly fell upon fair Absolom, riding through the wood against his father, King David, when the branches of a tree knocked him from his horse and hanged him by the hair, fall upon these untrue Scotsmen and hang them the same way, that all the world may see."

    "May the malediction that fell upon Nebuchadnezzar's lieutenant, Olifernus, making war and savagery upon true christian men; the malediction that fell upon Judas, Pilate, Herod, and the Jews that crucified Our Lord; and all the plagues and troubles that fell on the city of Jerusalem therefore, and upon Simon Magus for his treachery, bloody Nero, Ditius Magcensius, Olibrius, Julianus Apostita and the rest of the cruel tyrants who slew and murdered Christ's holy servants, fall upon them for their cruel tyranny and murder of Christian people."

    "And may all the vengeance that ever was taken since the world began, for open sins, and all the plagues and pestilence that ever fell on man or beast, fall on them for their openly evil ways, senseless slaughter and shedding of innocent blood."

    "I sever and part them from the church of God, and deliver them immediately to the devil of hell, as the Apostle Paul delivered Corinth. I bar the entrance of all places they come to, for divine service and ministration of the sacraments of holy church, except the sacrament of infant baptism, only; and I forbid all churchmen to hear their confession or to absolve them of their sins, until they are first humbled / subjugated by this curse."

    "I forbid all christian men or women to have any company with them, eating, drinking, speaking, praying, lying, going, standing, or in any other deed-doing, under the pain of deadly sin."

    "I discharge all bonds, acts, contracts, oaths, made to them by any persons, out of loyalty, kindness, or personal duty, so long as they sustain this cursing, by which no man will be bound to them, and this will be binding on all men."

    "I take from them, and cast down all the good deeds that ever they did, or shall do, until they rise from this cursing."

    "I declare them excluded from all matins, masses, evening prayers, funerals or other prayers, on book or bead (rosary); of all pigrimages and alms deeds done, or to be done in holy church or be christian people, while this curse is in effect."

    "And, finally, I condemn them perpetually to the deep pit of hell, there to remain with Lucifer and all his fellows, and their bodies to the gallows of Burrow moor, first to be hanged, then ripped and torn by dogs, swine, and other wild beasts, abominable to all the world. And their candle (light of their life) goes from your sight, as may their souls go from the face of God, and their good reputation from the world, until they forebear their open sins, aforesaid, and rise from this terrible cursing and make satisfaction and penance."

    Parent

    Leviticus? (none / 0) (#21)
    by oculus on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 03:58:43 PM EST
    Dick Cheney's autobiography. (5.00 / 5) (#25)
    by tigercourse on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 04:02:17 PM EST
    I like labor's approach. First, (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by oculus on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 03:55:20 PM EST
    give lots of money to the campaign, then GOTV, then get a seat at the transition team table, etc.  Makes sense.

    Hmmm . . . . (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by nycstray on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 03:58:10 PM EST
    how is this different than lobbying?

    Parent
    Bingo! (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by centralismo on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 04:14:48 PM EST
    And I second that.

    Parent
    Took the word right outta (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by oldpro on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 04:43:03 PM EST
    my mouth.

    Beginners hate lobbying.

    They have no clue.

    Parent

    It's not that simple (4.20 / 5) (#6)
    by Steve M on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 03:49:19 PM EST
    You are allowed to ask Obama for things IF you correctly predicted how everything would go in the election.

    If you thought, for example, that Obama would not win North Carolina, then you blew it.  Sorry.  Feel free to ask for things from the next administration.

    How about that "TEN" guy? (none / 0) (#7)
    by oculus on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 03:50:48 PM EST
    But I hit the Media Darling thing dammit (none / 0) (#12)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 03:54:43 PM EST
    Besides, I pegged the popular vote spread.

    Parent
    "Yes, you did." (none / 0) (#17)
    by oculus on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 03:57:13 PM EST
    Richard (1.00 / 1) (#2)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 03:46:18 PM EST
    do not curse please.

    And to be clear, I am not the leader of a labor union.

    BTW Richard (1.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 03:47:45 PM EST
    Here is the real issue - "According to a senior AFL-CIO official, the labor leaders -- who could include AFL-CIO head John Sweeney, AFSCME chief Gerald McEntee, and others -- will be putting the finishing touches on plans for a national campaign, including possible TV ads, to press members of Congress for quick passage of the Employee Free Choice Act, one of labor's major agenda items."

    that is THE agenda item for Labor.

    How about we wait.. (none / 0) (#18)
    by Maise7 on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 03:57:56 PM EST
    until the man is in office. The people who react to something that hasn't happened, are being silly. Let him do his job. Sheesh.

    And please, I'm not part of the cult. I was a stubborn Hillary supporter, up until Palin opened her mouth.

    I agreed with you in this post (5.00 / 2) (#22)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 03:59:10 PM EST
    Damn Labor for their lack of patience.

    Parent
    They'll never get what they want (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by lilburro on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 04:02:50 PM EST
    if they keep asking for it!

    Parent
    Part of the job (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by centralismo on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 04:17:50 PM EST
    is to listen to his constituency. The more assertive parts of said constituency recognize that after the Bush White House, Obama's going to have to prioritize everything, since everything is a "crisis."

    Sqeaky wheels get the grease.

    Parent

    Why wait?Cuz'he's doing Presidential (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by BarnBabe on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 04:53:51 PM EST
    stuff now. He is discussing policy and putting all the players in place. Putting the players in place should be his action item but if he or one of his players makes a comment about policy, then it is open to discussion. If he is not waiting, then we don't have to either. As BTD said yesterday, On Jan 20th, then it will be well give him 6 months, etc. And then it is time to run for re-election. Just around the corner. BTW, it is in my best interest and the country's that he succeeds.

    Parent
    You seem to be on Obama's (none / 0) (#23)
    by oculus on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 03:59:51 PM EST
    President-Elect e mail list though.

    Parent
    I say don't wait (none / 0) (#27)
    by nycstray on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 04:03:04 PM EST
    let him know what ya want now. Some folks don't think he'll do "enough", etc, so might as well put his feet to the fire so we don't get served up wishy-washy right leaning BS. I was glad to hear speaking out on HC today, especially after the HC commercials he ran at the end of the campaign!

    Parent
    Off Topic (none / 0) (#20)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 03:58:37 PM EST
    I do not care about "ratings abuse." Rating do not effect anything here so if it bothers you, shoot Jeralyn an e-mail. I am not lifting a finger on it.

    But what shall I make of you and Steve M. (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by oculus on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 04:00:42 PM EST
    garnering "1"s while I'm getting "5"s?  

    Parent
    I think it is cute (5.00 / 2) (#31)
    by Steve M on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 04:07:09 PM EST
    when people follow me around giving me 1s.  As if it matters!  Oh no, I'll never be voted commentor of the year now.

    People who get upset about "ratings abuse" are also fairly precious in my book!  "Sher, show yourself! Justify that 1!"  God, who cares.

    Parent

    Where's Eternal Hope (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by oculus on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 04:08:36 PM EST
    these days?

    Parent
    I did this... (5.00 / 3) (#38)
    by Thanin on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 04:31:01 PM EST
    a few times to Dr. Molly and I ended up stepping in it big time.  I now acknowledge I was wrong.

    Parent
    Moi? (none / 0) (#51)
    by Dr Molly on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 08:10:54 PM EST
    How did you 'step in it' BTW?

    Parent
    Embarrassingly enough... (none / 0) (#53)
    by Thanin on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 10:38:07 PM EST
    I brought up hitler in trying to make a point.  At the very least I can say my knee jerk reactions are usually painful enough for me to learn from.

    Parent
    Not so embarrassing... (none / 0) (#54)
    by Dr Molly on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 06:34:53 AM EST
    compared to lots of things I've said and others have.

    Parent
    Thats very kind. Thank you. (none / 0) (#70)
    by Thanin on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 09:09:23 AM EST
    I had a fan (none / 0) (#43)
    by flyerhawk on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 05:21:08 PM EST
    that pretty much low rated every post of mine for months.  Sadly it would appear she has moved on from this TalkLeft coil.  

    Parent
    Heh (none / 0) (#28)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 04:03:09 PM EST
    that is a question for the rater.

    Parent
    Ranting abuse. . . (5.00 / 3) (#29)
    by LarryInNYC on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 04:03:16 PM EST
    on the other hand. . .

    Parent
    Required skill (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 04:05:43 PM EST
    I'm pretty sure this was part of the (none / 0) (#34)
    by oculus on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 04:16:51 PM EST
    program at Camp Obama.

    Parent
    Your on a roll today BTD. (none / 0) (#39)
    by iceblinkjm on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 04:37:54 PM EST
    Please keep it up.

    Don't wait (none / 0) (#45)
    by koshembos on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 05:26:42 PM EST
    Politics, like life, do not stop and resume after 1/20/09. Labor is right to state their demands, they worked hard for Obama to merit demands. Obama was not elected to the job of god, so you can ask, complain and be upset at him; that's the democratic process. People who want to wait can wait, but Obama decision can and should be subject to democratic forces, labor in particular.

    If Obama's fans are upset, it's fine with us; children scream a lot when they grow up.

    It would seem (none / 0) (#47)
    by flyerhawk on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 05:27:53 PM EST
    that labor is pushing to get Obama to do what they want.  

    They don't seem to be criticizing him for things he hasn't done.  

    Heh (5.00 / 2) (#48)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 05:41:31 PM EST
    I am criticizing him for putting Brennan on his transition team.

    I get it that you do not care. but please stop lying about what I am criticizing Obama for.

    Parent

    Really? (none / 0) (#59)
    by flyerhawk on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 08:19:41 AM EST
    Ok.  I did not infer that.

    If your criticism is solely about him being on the transition team, fine.  

    Parent

    What did you infer? (none / 0) (#61)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 08:28:31 AM EST
    Again, have you taken the time to understand what Brennan has said and done?

    People do not like being called cultists - the usual suspects have hurled their invective at me for saying it. But I ask you - when the reaction to criticism of Brennan's inclusion on the Obama team is to tell me to STFU without regard to the questions about Brennan, that strikes me as cultist behavior.

    Parent

    The only person (none / 0) (#64)
    by flyerhawk on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 08:37:53 AM EST
    doing that is John Cole and you two don't really like each other.  

    The origination of this discussion was a diary by you that pointed to a WSJ that suggested that Obama would continue Bush intelligence policies.  

    If your only concern was Brennan being part of the transition team, I am not really sure why that article was relevant.

    I have read up on Brennan and I find the arguments being forth so far to be lacking.

    Parent

    The only person? (none / 0) (#67)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 08:54:21 AM EST
    I am sorry that is not so.

    but why bother explaining these things to you? you really do not care about the issue I am describing.

    I tire of your game playing. Indeed, I am done with it on this issue for sure.

    Parent

    I have no idea (none / 0) (#49)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 05:42:16 PM EST
    My point is Labor ain't waiting.

    Hmmm (none / 0) (#58)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 07:04:15 AM EST
    If the shoe fits . .  . If it does not, then why are you worried?

    Parent
    A very poor argument (none / 0) (#60)
    by flyerhawk on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 08:23:37 AM EST
    Anyone who makes the "Well if you aren't guilty you have nothing to fear" argument, has lost their credibility on the subject.

    Parent
    Excuse me (none / 0) (#62)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 08:29:52 AM EST
    In what universe? Of course it COULD be about you -0 and in many respects I think it IS about ypou personally.

    But how that "loses the argument" is beyond me. Are you not a cultist? Let's discuss it.

    Parent

    Because (none / 0) (#65)
    by flyerhawk on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 08:42:01 AM EST
    it is a method of forcing the other person to prove a negative.  

    If you aren't a Communist then you shouldn't worry about this investigation.

    If you aren't anti-American then our attacks anti-American people shouldn't bother you.  

    You can call me whatever you like.  But when you delve into assigning pejorative labels, then you should expect people to get defensive or hostile towards you.

    I am not offended or bothered by anything you have said.  I think it is needlessly combative but you have a tendency to engage in combative rhetoric.

    You wish to keep thinking that it is the "cultists" that are the enemy.  I hope, at some point, you realize who the actual enemy is.

    Parent

    I linked to a specific writer (none / 0) (#66)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 08:52:00 AM EST
    His name is John Cole.

    I named my name. and I also named you specifically in the comments.

    I am pretty sure that the cultists, who I have named, are indeed harming the cause of progressive change. That is why I fight this battle.

    Let me be specific, I think your actions are, unintentionally of course, not helping the discourse in terms of pressuring Dems to do the right things.

    This idea seems beyond your understanding.

    Now there are those who believe my pointing to things I am concerned about regarding Obama is harming their cause. As I see it, their cause seems to be Obama, not any particular issues. It is why I call them cultists.

    Let's think about it this way - suppose my concerns are misplaced, Obama will be all we want him to be. what harm did I cause by voicing my concerns. suppose on the other hand, I am right and you are wrong and Obama will be swayed by the Brennans of the world - could it be that voicing concern about this might sway Obama? Probably not. But we won't know will we, unless we speak.

    I think my actions are clearly the more defensible.

    But you like to talk about the language used, or rather the language I use. you have no concern about the language used by those who agree with you. That is a common human trait.

    Indeed, some turn a 2 time Bush voting, alito/roberts supporting ex-Republican into a paragon of virtue while I am labelled a "fringe Republican." But of course such people could not be called cultists. Nosirree.

    In the end, I find these discussions with you fruitless. and the basic reason why is I do not find that you honestly engage an issue.

    A little passion, some harsh words so what? I would not care. But lack of intellectual honesty,. which you demonstrate most of the time? I really have a low tolerance for that.

    You asked back into my threads a while back. And frankly, I have no idea why. You never engage what I write and instead play these games. to what end?

    Parent

    You don't seem to understand (none / 0) (#68)
    by flyerhawk on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 08:59:23 AM EST
    I have absolutely NO PROBLEM with your questioning or challenging the Obama campaign.  

    However negative criticisms only go so far.  Positive suggestions, IMO, would be far more useful.  

    You don't like John Brennan. Fine.  Who do you like to be the head of Obama's national security team?  

    That is something worth discussing.  Simply sniping at Obama because he MIGHT pick someone you don't like for not terribly well defined reasons is not.


    Parent

    Wes Clark (none / 0) (#69)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 09:06:18 AM EST
    you think anyone listens to me on any of it? I know they do not.

    I express my opinions here knowing I am spitting into the wind.

    Look, the halo around Obama is too strong. No one will question a thing he does.

    Parent

    Why the need for the passive aggressive? (none / 0) (#73)
    by flyerhawk on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 10:05:23 AM EST
    You mentioned Wes Clark and then go straight into a passive aggressive attack on anyone who may, or may no disagree with you.

    Wes Clark might be a good choice for SecDef.  Maybe even NSA.  

    He would be an ATROCIOUS choice for NCI or any other intelligence position.

    Parent

    You have a desire (none / 0) (#71)
    by lilburro on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 09:20:19 AM EST
    seemingly, for more positive criticism.  That seems to be a gripe with BTD's style.  Considering Obama selected Rahmbo, I doubt he has a problem with it but whatever.

    Still what is the point of asking "who would you want in the top position?  on the transition team?"  We can come up with names and personalities.  But the reality is that JOHN BRENNAN is on the transition team right now.  Shooting down trial balloons about him is good.  Promoting other people for those roles is an interesting exercise, but Brennan is a step ahead of whomever we say.

    Parent

    I guess (none / 0) (#74)
    by flyerhawk on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 10:06:37 AM EST
    As I said upthread I did not infer that the criticism was specifically about Brennan being on the transition team.  If that is the basis for the criticism then have a great time.  

    Parent
    Ridicule in Order (none / 0) (#50)
    by Thers WF on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 06:38:50 PM EST
    So I was ridiculing you personally? Who knew! I didn't.  

    I did not think so (none / 0) (#56)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 07:02:41 AM EST
    It seemed to me you were ridiculing a wide swath of people - but had other people than me in mind, I doubt you knew a thing I have written on anything for quite some time.

    But tell us, what were you doing in that post Thers?

    Parent

    Jeez (none / 0) (#75)
    by Thers WF on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 04:01:29 PM EST
    I should have thought the satirical acronym would have given that away.

    And I bet I know a thing more about what you have written than you know about what I've written.

    Parent

    True (none / 0) (#76)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 04:22:38 PM EST
    I have not read you as regularly as I used to.

    I was in  bad mood yesterday and should not have taken it out on you.

    I apologize.

    Parent

    OK (none / 0) (#77)
    by Thers WF on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 07:26:00 PM EST
    Very gentlemanly. Thanks.

    I've consistently taken the line that Obama is (a) a politician and as president will be (b) miles better than any GOP president but (c) no better than the pressure that is put on him to be better at anything but staying powerful, because of (a). That's just the system we have.

    Parent

    What is the point of this sarcasm (none / 0) (#55)
    by rationalMind on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 06:58:41 AM EST
    I dont see the point of this. I suppose BTD still has hurt feeling from the primary. I think it would be good if people stopped indulging in personality based politics.

    Also, I think its naive to think that Obama or Hillary or McCain would on there own bring real progressive change to the country and world.

    Both Obama and Hillary represent elite interests and on their own wouldnt bring progressive change. However, IMHO since Obama was more dependent on the progressive groups for his support base than McCain or Hillary, he may be more susceptible to pressures from that constituency.

    So, instead of sarcasm and old fights the thing to do would be to realize that this is how its supposed to be and Obama Presidency may still prove to be the best hope for progressive change at this point, unless of course proven otherwise.

    The previous statement in no way condemning constructive criticism and pressures from progressive groups, in fact I am all it.

    It is a device to make a point (none / 0) (#57)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 07:03:40 AM EST
    I think you understood my point perfectly well.

    Parent
    re: (none / 0) (#63)
    by lilburro on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 08:36:48 AM EST
    However, IMHO since Obama was more dependent on the progressive groups for his support base than McCain or Hillary, he may be more susceptible to pressures from that constituency.

    Tell me again, who voted for FISA?  Was it Obama or Hillary.  Hmm.

    And... (none / 0) (#72)
    by DancingOpossum on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 10:00:51 AM EST
    ...the time to exert pressure is when the guy wants your vote, not when he's already got it.