Joss Whedon Watch

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Off Topic
Posted on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 11:31:14 AM EST
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John Cole (yes, we agree on occasion) and Steve Benen are. like me, Joss Whedon-philes (read my "famous" diary attacking Freddie Prinze, Jr.) On Dollhouse, I am, like Benen, a complete pessimist (Fox will destroy it):

Fox made Whedon scrap the pilot (just as the network did with "Firefly," probably my favorite show of all time). Then, after several episodes had already been shot, Whedon stopped production because the scripts were deemed inadequate. And just to ruin any hopes we had about the show's future, Fox announced earlier this month that "Dollhouse" would air on Friday nights at 9 -- the same slot it gave "Firefly," and a notorious black hole on the schedule where the network dumps shows it doesn't intend to keep.

I'm an embarrassingly big fan of Whedon's work, so months before the first episode even airs, I'm already preparing myself to be disappointed -- not with the show, but with its likely demise.

Ditto. I am anticipatorily pi**ed about it. Let's make this an Open Thread.

By Big Tent Democrat, speaking for me only

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Joss Whedon Watch | 70 comments (70 topical)

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I have no idea what this about and, no, (5.00 / 1) (#1)
by oculus on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 11:35:07 AM EST

I'm not reading the links.

Dog The Bounty Hunter (none / 0) (#2)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 11:41:45 AM EST

No Idea EIther (none / 0) (#3)
by squeaky on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 11:41:57 AM EST

But not sure why you choose to remain willfully ignorant. Dollhouse (I just clicked the link) sounds interesting.


You are missing out! (none / 0) (#4)
by rooge04 on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 11:42:09 AM EST

Firefly is the BEST.SHOW.EVER. I love Joss Whedon and most everything he does.

And, BTD, I agree. Fox will destroy Dollhouse before it even starts airing. I see Fox doing the same thing now that they did with Malcolm Reynolds and the crew of Serenity!


: No, Buffy the Vampire Slayer (none / 0) (#66)
by otherlisa on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 03:16:14 PM EST

is the best. TV. Show. Ever.
I worked on both (more on Firefly than Buffy) in an obscure capacity.

BTW (none / 0) (#7)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 11:44:38 AM EST

Whedon is a big opera lover.

Just sayin'


When the opera companies start (5.00 / 1) (#16)
by oculus on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 11:53:41 AM EST

hiring TV impresarios to make opera more appealing to younger audiences, I'll pay attention. Already bringing in the big guns of theatre and film.


Here's why young people don't go to opera: (none / 0) (#18)
by andgarden on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 11:55:02 AM EST

it's boring, often incomprehensible, and the crowd is ALWAYS geriatric.


I resemble that. (none / 0) (#21)
by oculus on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 11:57:57 AM EST

The more "out there" the direction of the opera, the less young people I see at the Met movies, not that many young people have attended anyhow.

But, opera is an acquired taste, just as TV is. Don't knock it until you've tried it more than once. Probably helps to have two degrees in music though!


As a child and teenager (none / 0) (#23)
by andgarden on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 12:01:40 PM EST

I was dragged to about 4 times my lifetime limit of opera. I still find it quite boring.

My only other observation is this: if you want to find old money and Holocaust survivors together in the same room, you go to the Opera.


Last night I heard the Israel (none / 0) (#24)
by oculus on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 12:06:33 PM EST

Philharmonic. First, the Star Spangled Banner. Hardly anyone sang. Then, the Israeli National Anthem. Poignant to listen to the audience singing with great emotion.


Depends What You Call Opera (none / 0) (#27)
by squeaky on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 12:13:54 PM EST

For me I have the same reaction to most Italian opera. Basically it is outdated pop music that has for whatever reason been kept alive long after it should have been forgotten.

Mozart, Wagner, Berg, Strauss, Gluck, Lully, et al are worth looking into. For me every Mozart wrote was Opera.


Mozart (none / 0) (#28)
by squeaky on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 12:15:07 PM EST

Everything he wrote was opera, imo. From piano sonatas to string quintets.


: Squeaky, now I know why I enjoy (none / 0) (#32)
by oculus on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 12:23:04 PM EST

reading you comments. Such good taste.

blasphemy! (none / 0) (#34)
by The Poster Formerly Known as cookiebear on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 12:40:21 PM EST

Italian opera is country-western at its best.

Or maybe it's just that I loved the movie FitzCarraldo.


: You probably adore Puccini's (5.00 / 1) (#37)
by oculus on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 12:49:20 PM EST

"Girl of the Golden West."

Your scepticism of Italian opera (none / 0) (#36)
by oculus on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 12:48:20 PM EST

might lessen if you saw Patricia Racette sing Butterfly. Beautiful--both the singing and acting.


No Problem (none / 0) (#40)
by squeaky on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 12:56:56 PM EST

As long as they let me bring food and wine, and permit cajoling with my friends during the boring parts, I can sit through and wait for the solos.


Ooh. Please don't sit next to me. (none / 0) (#41)
by oculus on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 01:02:38 PM EST

Do you eat before or after? (none / 0) (#43)
by Militarytracy on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 01:04:26 PM EST

Sometimes both. (none / 0) (#44)
by oculus on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 01:08:31 PM EST

Before Damnation of Faust, I had a glass of wine and bruschetta at the balcony bar at the Metropolitan Museum and then another glass of wine and caprese salad at a small Italian restaurant across from the hotel after the opera. Such fun.


I'd go with you anytime (none / 0) (#45)
by Militarytracy on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 01:16:32 PM EST

I love to make a full event out my life :)


Me too. Unfortunately, (none / 0) (#46)
by oculus on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 01:20:05 PM EST

it is pretty hard to find full time culture in San Diego. But, I'm trying.


: Lower Alabama is very challenging too (5.00 / 2) (#47)
by Militarytracy on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 01:23:09 PM EST

but I'm trying.

OK (none / 0) (#48)
by squeaky on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 01:28:03 PM EST

Gluck helped to do away with the practice anyway, so, no worries, I won't be sitting next to anyone with my idea, unless, that is, I can figure out how to time travel back to the early 18th century.

Working on it.


Although, this time I sat in boxes (none / 0) (#52)
by oculus on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 01:41:25 PM EST

in the side parterre and thought, since this is so very haughty and fine, why CAN'T I just take my glass of wine into the box to sip during the second act?


That Is (none / 0) (#54)
by squeaky on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 01:59:43 PM EST

What boxes are for. I went to a performance of Virgil Thompson/Gertrude Stein the Mother of us All, ( we discussed this) in a small theater on Chrystie st called the box. I sat in a box that had curtains that one could draw.

I am told that at that theater (the box) one can engage in all sorts of naughty things during performances, including drinking and eating.

I went on a comp ticket because Sherrie Levine (a great artist) was involved, but bought two beers and it was almost thirty dollars. I think it is more expensive there than the met.


I think it is perfectly o.k. to (none / 0) (#56)
by oculus on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 02:05:59 PM EST

drink oneself into oblivion whilst watching The Mother of Us All.


: Only Way (none / 0) (#61)
by squeaky on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 02:14:22 PM EST

To get through it. Unfortunately it would have cost a fortune at the performance I attended. I would have walked out but was obligated to stay and tell my hosts that I did not understand it.

Lulu (none / 0) (#26)
by squeaky on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 12:08:09 PM EST

Had a film in the middle of it. I think that if Berg were alive today he would certainly have included teevee somehow.


I suspect even andgarden would (none / 0) (#42)
by oculus on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 01:03:11 PM EST

enjoy a good production of "Lulu."


No Kidding (none / 0) (#50)
by squeaky on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 01:38:18 PM EST

Anyone with a brain and willing to invest some time in studying the libretto has to like that piece. For me it is the greatest opera of the twentieth century. Perhaps one of the greatest pieces period, or better put, nothing is better.


Do you also praise Wozzeck? (none / 0) (#51)
by oculus on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 01:39:46 PM EST

Yes (none / 0) (#53)
by squeaky on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 01:46:54 PM EST

Unbelievably great, although it does need a great Marie. I saw it three times in one season, standing room, which meant for Wozzek front row seats. The last performance Marie was replaced by a poor actor and it did not work. She had no empathy.

It was a brilliant choice for Berg to rework George Buchner Woyzeck. Thing were hopping in Vienna back then.


Me too. I recently (none / 0) (#55)
by oculus on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 02:04:14 PM EST

saw it again, but this time in English, which I wouldn't have expected to like, but did. Directed by Des MacAnuff of La Jolla Playhouse. Set resembled a cylotron.


Yes I kNow (none / 0) (#57)
by squeaky on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 02:09:03 PM EST

We discussed it. Probably deleted as OT. I hated it, you loved it.


: See, my memory is going. Is it (none / 0) (#58)
by oculus on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 02:10:07 PM EST

dementia? Take this test to find out:

OH Sorry (none / 0) (#59)
by squeaky on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 02:10:33 PM EST

Thought you were referring to THompson, mother of us all.

In english? wow, that sounds interesting. I would have loved to see that.


With a mostly German cast, most of (none / 0) (#60)
by oculus on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 02:11:54 PM EST

whom had never sung their roles in English. I talked to the singer/actor who played Wozzeck after the opera. He sd. it was a real challenge.


How Weird (none / 0) (#62)
by squeaky on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 02:15:26 PM EST

It was startling to hear (none / 0) (#63)
by oculus on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 02:30:01 PM EST

the gutteral, anguished utterings of Wozzeck, in particular, in English. Very emotional response from me. Much more so than the times I've heard the opera performed in German.


It Is Truly A Political Work (none / 0) (#64)
by squeaky on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 02:38:13 PM EST

One of the few, that rise up to be part of the literature.

I cried during the performances. My german was not too bad, and I had really studied the libretto, so his wailings moved me in german.

I can see, as an english speaker, how it would be more moving in english. Now that I think about it, political works need to be accessible to the audience, and therefore in this case, in english.

Good call by the producer.


: I studied the libretto and recordings (none / 0) (#65)
by oculus on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 02:42:12 PM EST

in a contemporary music class back in the day. Also studied German in college. Still, the English was very effective in communicating the angst. I didn't expect it would be. Supertitles in English, of course.

Peter Sellars is fun! (none / 0) (#67)
by otherlisa on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 03:17:03 PM EST

"Nixon In China" - that was a blast...


I sort of know because the two (none / 0) (#20)
by Militarytracy on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 11:57:22 AM EST

guys I live with like sci-fi dramas. I don't but to live with them and love them means that I must know about other stuff. I got in big trouble when I canceled their weekly Tivo of Sanctuary. I don't really know what that's about either other than it can be about getting into trouble :)


Sanctuary is a great (none / 0) (#22)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 11:59:37 AM EST

Stars Amanda Tapping from the Star Gate series. (also a great shows, though Atlantis I do not like as much)


: How about The Pretender? (none / 0) (#30)
by Militarytracy on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 12:19:07 PM EST

Josh wasn't born yet, but my husband loved that series.

: SANCTUARY is good ... (none / 0) (#39)
by Robot Porter on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 12:53:22 PM EST

but the show they're ripping off, TORCHWOOD, is much better.

For milehi(gh)hawkeye: (5.00 / 1) (#49)
by oculus on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 01:33:17 PM EST

University of Iowa

Just put up (5.00 / 1) (#69)
by lilburro on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 04:35:48 PM EST

a new diary on John Brennan, this time focusing on his Analysis Corp and INSA involvements. Basically, there is no way Brennan can be appointed to the CIA without completely violating all of Obama's rules on lobbying. Of course I am open to an explanation as how that could be done. :P

no power in the 'verse (none / 0) (#5)
by Turkana on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 11:44:17 AM EST

can stop me.

Everybody dies alone (none / 0) (#11)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 11:46:29 AM EST

If you look up the Armand user name at Daily Kosd, that reminis the sig line.


Armando user name that is (none / 0) (#13)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 11:46:44 AM EST

heh (none / 0) (#14)
by Turkana on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 11:50:10 AM EST

something poetic about that...

without checking, i can't remember my sig line- maybe a link to tlc.

after the 2006 election, for a while i used:

"We've done the impossible and that makes us mighty."


Carnacki loved that one (none / 0) (#15)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 11:51:35 AM EST

I used that for Lamont's win in the primary.


: carnacki always has had good taste... (none / 0) (#17)
by Turkana on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 11:54:46 AM EST

i need not mention how mighty we'll all feel when ct has a new senator after 2012.
i also must mention- go beavers!
i didn't attend either oregon school, but they're my teams...

Whedon (none / 0) (#6)
by chrisvee on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 11:44:22 AM EST

needs no help destroying his own shows. I cite the treatment of Spike on BtVS and AtS as my evidence. I'll never be sucked in by another Whedon show again after watching him abandon BtVS to Marti Noxon so that he could go off and play with Firefly. The last two seasons of BtVS were a nightmare. And need I even mention ConCord? Although I really can't blame Joss directly for that monstrosity.

In what sense? (none / 0) (#9)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 11:45:23 AM EST

Spike was well handled imo.

What was your beef?


: Well-handled? (none / 0) (#68)
by chrisvee on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 03:53:01 PM EST

Turned into an Angel re-tread, mentally assaulted by the First Evil, and then burned up by a magical MacGuffin amulet? All while waiting for Buffy to deign to show him some scrap of affection?
I'm still waiting for my redemption without a soul storyline. And for the Scooby Gang to ever suffer any consequences for their actions.
BtVS was fantastic through S5. I wish it had ended then.

No Teevee (none / 0) (#8)
by squeaky on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 11:45:12 AM EST

But I saw one episode of Buffy on the internet and would up watching the whole series. Did not know Whedon's name but if the rest of his work is like buffy he is great, imo.

Squeaky, I must admit we are (5.00 / 1) (#25)
by oculus on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 12:07:44 PM EST

missing out in some respects. I just learned Hugh Laurie stars in "House." He's a very funny fellow.


House is one of the only (5.00 / 1) (#35)
by The Poster Formerly Known as cookiebear on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 12:41:20 PM EST

... tv shows I have to watch. Hugh Laurie is great.


House? (none / 0) (#29)
by squeaky on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 12:18:09 PM EST

Hugh Laurie? Have to have a looksee on that.


: Please verify. Haven't (none / 0) (#33)
by oculus on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 12:24:19 PM EST

actually seen the show yet.

Watch Firefly (none / 0) (#10)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 11:45:51 AM EST

It will knock your socks off.


: I'm On It (none / 0) (#12)
by squeaky on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 11:46:36 AM EST

: Looks GOod (none / 0) (#70)
by squeaky on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 10:17:39 PM EST

Just saw the first episode and off to the second. It will not be good for tomorrow if I watch five in a row... oy.

Ah. All is revealed: Buffy connection. (none / 0) (#19)
by oculus on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 11:55:15 AM EST

I should have known.


: Granted (none / 0) (#31)
by squeaky on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 12:20:38 PM EST

It gets a bit redundant as it is formula, but I really like the mixing up of genre. Also seems pretty political to have a teenage girl as the hero. Not much of that since Aliens, although I am not too up to date with teevee.

I'm more interested in ... (none / 0) (#38)
by Robot Porter on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 12:51:20 PM EST

the increasingly reliable reports that Paterson Joseph has been cast as the lead on DOCTOR WHO.

Paterson has been on my short list for the role for years. And I think he'll be great. Will take some of the sting out of David Tennant's departure.