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Monday Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 12:41:36 PM EST
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TChris is in trial, I'm off to the jail and BTD is swamped at work. Here's an open thread for you.

For those of you wanting to know more about Eric Holder, here are excerpts from his 1997 Deputy Attorney General confirmation hearing.

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    Monday Open Thread | 41 comments (41 topical)

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    I'm with you (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by ruffian on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 02:22:33 PM EST
    It has been easy to ignore him for the last few months, but I don't want anyone to forget what an unmitigated disaster he has been.

    but I wish the intelligence had been different, I guess.

    Me too George - mostly I wish you had some inteligence.

    Looking like Chambliss is gonna pull through (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by andgarden on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 02:30:01 PM EST
    tomorrow, sadly.

    This will be an interesting test of the bare metal of the Obama turnout machine, though. Apparently lots of them decamped to Georgia for the runoff. If they can really crank up black turnout, the race is winnable.

    Yep (none / 0) (#25)
    by phat on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 03:48:20 PM EST
    I have 2 friends who went down there after we won Omaha. If the rest of the field staff are half as good, it should be a good day tomorrow.

    Parent
    had an interesting experience (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by cpinva on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 02:42:23 PM EST
    saturday night. went to a party, and met a guy who was home on leave from baghdad. turns out, he's in the same unit as gov. palin's son. i was curious, and asked him what his impression of the kid was so far (this guy is working on his second tour). apparently, young mr. palin is a true believer: we're "fighting them there, so we don't have to fight them at home."

    i didn't want to get into politics, so i ended the discussion at that point. wasn't sure if i should laugh or cry.

    I'm sure you guys talked about... (none / 0) (#1)
    by kdog on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 01:09:45 PM EST
    the poor slob who got trampled to death working at Walmart on Black Friday, kinda brings a whole new meaning to Black Friday, don't it?

    If we'll kill each other over tv's on sale, heaven help us if food ever gets scarce.  They'll be blood on the streets up to our knees.

    Black Friday's not a reference to Plaxico? ;-) (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 01:21:32 PM EST
    Anyway, I've been in a situation like that before. There are so many people that the folks in front are literally getting crushed by the people in back, and the people in back, who are hardly being pushed at all and certainly don't think they're pushing at all, have no idea that anything's wrong up front.

    Very sad situation, I think I heard last night that he was trying to help a pregnant woman who had fallen down when he got trampled.

    Parent

    I heard the same.... (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by kdog on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 01:47:29 PM EST
    people are pretty sick over it around here.  So hard to understand how it can happen, unless you've been in a mob.  I had one close call at a music festival once, I was with a lady friend at the time and it took all my strength to keep us from getting trampled over.  The mob mentality and mob behavior is some downright scary stuff.  

    As for Plaxico...there are no words for that kind of stupidity.  In some states he wouldn't have much to worry about, but with NY's strict gun laws he's pretty much f*cked.  He might get serious time.

    Parent

    Man, he's been full of stoopid this season! (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by nycstray on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 01:55:19 PM EST


    Parent
    If you make that much money (none / 0) (#17)
    by Fabian on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 03:13:29 PM EST
    you should hire someone else to carry the gun.

    There's some macho factor about guns that I'll never understand.  Guns are not accessories, they are tools with a very specific purpose.  

    Parent

    lol!~ (none / 0) (#22)
    by nycstray on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 03:38:09 PM EST
    Guns are not accessories

    I never thought of it that way. In cases like this, I always considered it an "extension"  ;)

    At least he accidentally shot himself, not an innocent bystander.

    Parent

    Gonadal enhancement? (none / 0) (#33)
    by Fabian on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 05:03:10 PM EST
    Sometimes I think truly evil thoughts.  This time I thought: "In that case, it would have been ironic if he had aimed differently.".

    Parent
    Walmart should be investigated (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by Realleft on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 01:57:38 PM EST
    Not the people in the crowd, unless there is some indication that anyone acted intentionally.  This wasn't a random event, it was planned, organized and advertised by Walmart and they may bear some responsibility for mismanagement, in the same way that concert promoters/sites may be responsible for what happens at their events.

    Parent
    I agree... (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by kdog on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 02:14:28 PM EST
    that Walmart should bear responsibility for the lack of security to control the crowd.  Management knows what a zoo these Black Friday events become and should be prepared to ensure workplace safety.

    That being said, I don't think we should exonerate the crowd either.  I heard a report on tv from an employee that people were complaining that they couldn't get in the store after learning that someone was trampled to death, saying things like "I've been on line for 4 hours" and such.  Again, after learning a human being died over this stupid sale.  That is just sick.

    Parent

    You know Walmart'll be sued. (none / 0) (#14)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 03:03:00 PM EST


    Parent
    As they should be... (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by kdog on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 03:17:45 PM EST
    you know me man, I'm always b*tching about frivolous civil suits and how every tragedy isn't a lotto ticket.

    But in this case, I tend to think a civil suit is warranted.  Wal-mart has an obligation to provide a safe work enviroment for their employees (err, "associates"), and they failed at that responsibility miserably.  

    Parent

    Yeah man, I wasn't arguing they shouldn't be sued. (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 03:43:44 PM EST


    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#16)
    by squeaky on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 03:12:20 PM EST
    And they will counter sue. Remember this travesty:

    Just when you think that Wal-Mart had already exhausted every last possible strategy for screwing over its employees, here comes this story in the Wall Street Journal. Deborah Shank, a Wal-Mart employee gets into an accident with a semi and ends up permanently brain-damaged a few years back. Her Wal-Mart health insurance paid her medical bills, but she also sued the trucking company for damages. She wins $700,000, which after legal fees and expenses, nets her about $400,000, which was put in a trust to pay the nursing home she now lives in.

    But Wal-Mart gets wind of the settlement and turns around and sues Shank for $470,000, the money its insurance company paid for her care from the accident. Now, the woman is reliant on Medicaid and Social Security and Wal-Mart apparently got a much needed windfall.

    Mother Jones


    Parent

    It's called subrogation, (none / 0) (#21)
    by OldCity on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 03:37:42 PM EST
    and it's utterly normal.  

    I never thought I'd see myself defend Walmart, but this is normal behavior in every line of insurance.  Walmart absorbed bills they weren't legally required to pay, bills that were the responsibility of another carrier.  They're entitled to be paid back.  

    Assuming that Walmart subcontracted the administration of their plan, the administrator would have incrurred significant liability if THEY didn't seek reimbursement.  So, while it may seem heartless, it's also the way this stuff works.

    The woman's lawyer must have just sucked, by the way...he/she had to have known.  

    Parent

    I don't get this, (none / 0) (#24)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 03:46:57 PM EST
    is it your suggestions that Walmart's postition is that the trucking co is at fault (and should pay the med bills)? If so, why didn't Walmart sue the trucking co, and not the injured employee?

    Parent
    Because Of The Fine (none / 0) (#27)
    by squeaky on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 04:06:29 PM EST
    Print in their employees health insurance plan. I am sure that the family of the trampled employee is going to have some shocking surprises in store.

    Hope that the family does not have to sue. The family will lose and Walmart will have to once again reverse their win so that they can mitigate another humongous PR disaster.

    Parent

    Except (none / 0) (#26)
    by squeaky on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 04:03:14 PM EST
    They were wrong, it was not simply about subrogation, this was about greed pure and simple. In fact they were so morally wrong that they dropped their demands.

    (CNN) -- A former Wal-Mart employee who suffered severe brain damage in a traffic accident won't have to pay back the company for the cost of her medical care, Wal-Mart told the family Tuesday.

    cnn

    Parent

    Sometimes it just shouldn't matter (none / 0) (#29)
    by nycstray on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 04:40:16 PM EST
    what the fine print says. Glad they came through in the end. I remember watching that story. wow.

    Parent
    Great link, (none / 0) (#30)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 04:45:43 PM EST
    do many/all ins plans carry such language, or just Walmart's?

    Parent
    Walmart Not Alone (none / 0) (#31)
    by squeaky on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 04:47:46 PM EST
    Just leading the pack of wolves.

    Parent
    Apologies To (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by squeaky on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 04:49:40 PM EST
    All the wolves out there. It is just a figure of speech, my bad..

    Parent
    Wonder what corp (none / 0) (#19)
    by Fabian on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 03:15:24 PM EST
    has the largest legal budget as a percentage of its total budget.

    Parent
    Did you see the footage? (none / 0) (#15)
    by TheRealFrank on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 03:06:06 PM EST
    There was a helicopter shot of the body being taken away on a stretcher, and two people with a cart containing a big TV passed right in front of it, seemingly not caring at all about the tragedy.


    Parent
    Exactly.... (none / 0) (#18)
    by kdog on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 03:14:52 PM EST
    sick, sick, sick.

    I would hope that everybody who was at that Walmart at 5 am and did nothing is doing some soul-searching right now...but I doubt it, they're probably watching the new flat-screen with the blood stain on it.

    Parent

    Then again... (none / 0) (#34)
    by kdog on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 05:04:55 PM EST
    I am sure there are those that tried to do right, like the poor slob who died saving a pregnant woman from the savage hoardes in search of cheap tvs sold by a corporation with so little regard for human beings.

    I take heart in the hope and belief that there are more of us like Jdimytai Damour than there are of us like the tv craving mob or the Waltons.  Its gotta be so...gotta be.

    Parent

    The police also bear a part of that (none / 0) (#40)
    by Amiss on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 12:43:29 AM EST
    responsibility as well, they were there before the doors opened and saw the crowd and left. They are just as much at fault.

    Parent
    Yes George (none / 0) (#9)
    by lilburro on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 02:21:17 PM EST
    it is tragic that when smacking around your detainees better intelligence about Iraq was not produced.  Just amazing that we didn't get better intel that way.

    What I love about some of his recent comments (none / 0) (#12)
    by Angel on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 02:34:57 PM EST
    is that he KNOWS that he's the Worst. President. Ever.  I get a lot of satisfaction from that.  

    Gossip (none / 0) (#28)
    by squeaky on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 04:37:44 PM EST
    Hill Gossip: Foreign Affairs. A staffer writes that Nancy Stetson, the former long time foreign policy staffer to John Kerry now at the Sheridan Group, is set to return to Kerry's side as staff director of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee as he prepares to assume the Chairmanship in the next Congress.

    war & piece

    Bill Clinton for Senate? (none / 0) (#35)
    by kenosharick on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 07:35:27 PM EST
    CNN is reporting a rumor that the NY Gov. will appoint him to replace Hillary. I have mixed feelings about that, but think the possibility is remote.

    Wouldn't that make him a Freshman (none / 0) (#37)
    by nycstray on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 09:16:36 PM EST
    Senator?! lol!~

    Gov has a lot of options.

    Parent

    I like the idea, in principle. (none / 0) (#38)
    by ThatOneVoter on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 10:42:20 PM EST
    There's no reason ex-presidents can't be active politically, and if they did so, I think it would lessen the unhealthy mystique which surrounds them.

    Parent
    When Bill speaks... (none / 0) (#39)
    by BackFromOhio on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 11:21:13 PM EST
    smart people listen.

    Parent
    Say it ain't so... (none / 0) (#42)
    by kdog on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 08:56:18 AM EST
    I thought we were due to get a real NY'er to represent NY in the Senate.

    Parent
    Maybe Someone From Upstate... (none / 0) (#43)
    by daring grace on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 02:56:19 PM EST
    was one trial balloon I heard from Paterson. That would be very unusual. This article says an upstater or a woman...

    Picking someone from upstate would be more likely a lock on getting a 'real New Yorker' since the carpetbaggers seem to gravitate to NYC and the northern suburbs...

    Parent

    Spouse just told me that the Army (none / 0) (#36)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 08:37:41 PM EST
    is offering W4s about to retire the rank of Major for two more years of sign on the line commitment.

    When did the recession start? (none / 0) (#41)
    by Jlvngstn on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 08:53:16 AM EST
    looks like it started about when i said it would, back in July of 2007.  Remember the fed pumped 86 bn into the market in Nov of 07.  And the recession started right after.....

    The article (none / 0) (#47)
    by Jlvngstn on Mon Jul 30, 2007 at 10:34:32 AM EST

    He/She posted talks about the growth of the GDP 2nd qtr in the proper context.  Problem is, the article is about the constricting economy.  
    I read the WSJ every morning along the NYT and Trib, and most economists that i have been reading believe that we are in a very tight economy mostly due to sup-prime woes, housing peak and hedge funds smoke and mirrors.  

    I hope that I am wrong but some time around November, look for the market to "correct" itself with a big fat dip and a few bs earnings statements to be uncovered.

    In the meantime, keep running up debt it is the best way to defeat terrorism according to Bush.


    Monday Open Thread | 41 comments (41 topical)

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